#milkymist IRC log for Friday, 2013-01-11

azonenbergwhere'd wolfspraul go lately? havent seen him around08:44
Fallenouhe's drowning under a large schematic sea08:47
FallenouI guess :)08:47
azonenbergi was going to tell him that i got a new decap setup so i can get some die pics now08:51
azonenbergnext time someone sees him send him this http://siliconexposed.blogspot.com/2013/01/new-decap-setup.html08:51
kyakazonenberg: you might as well use memoserv (/quote memoserv help)09:28
kyakand wow, impressive work09:28
azonenbergdidnt know there was one here09:28
azonenbergand thanks09:28
kyakazonenberg: correct me if i'm wrong. Decapping of MCU allows not only to break protection, such as read-only switch, but also reproduce the MCU?09:42
azonenbergDepackaging just lets you look at it09:43
azonenbergWhat you do after that is up to you09:43
GitHub112[milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 7 new commits to master: http://git.io/ZUzhCg09:43
GitHub112milkymist-ng/master b0503aa Sebastien Bourdeauducq: software/include/base/stdint.h: more definitions09:43
GitHub112milkymist-ng/master e4144f2 Sebastien Bourdeauducq: software/common.mak: use -target instead of deprecated -ccc-host-triple09:43
GitHub112milkymist-ng/master c490917 Sebastien Bourdeauducq: software/common.mak: remove -fsigned-char from CFLAGS09:43
Action: sb0 recommends active noise cancelling headphones for better nerdage onboard aircraft09:44
azonenbergkyak: Given enough time, effort, and electron microscope time you could fully clone the chip (ignoring legal issues)09:44
azonenbergBut my interest is not in cloning devices, I want to see how they work09:44
azonenbergAs well as security analysis09:44
kyakhave you tried to do that with very complicated devices, like modern processors?09:45
azonenbergMy group is mostly interested in building a body of public knowledge on how IC reversing works09:46
azonenbergWhile the fab of small devices is a lot harder than large ones, once you have photos it's no harder to figure out how they work (ignoring scalability issues in the analysis tools for huge netlists, etc)09:46
azonenbergSo we mostly stick to >=350nm devices which are possible to study by optical microscopy09:47
azonenbergsince SEM is somewhat pricey to get time on and optical scopes are free (I have four in my lab i can use whenever i want)09:47
azonenbergThat said, I do want to see a spartan6 naked at some point and the lower levels will need a SEM09:47
kyakok, i see09:48
Fallenou10:44  * sb0 recommends active noise cancelling headphones for better nerdage onboard aircraft < yeah, buy Parrot Zik heaphones :D09:58
sb0I have Bose Quietcomfort 1510:01
sb0works pretty well10:01
Fallenouyeah Bose are quite known for having good audio quality and good noice cancelation10:15
bkeroThey're quite well known for that. Unfortunately they don't actually make very good products anymore, just coasting on reputation.10:19
bkeroVery common for people who know nothing at all about audio to just say "bose makes good stuff, buy bose"10:20
wpwraknoice-canceling headphones are nice. but your ears will still hurt after a while. better get a few drinks and just sleep through the ordeal.11:27
wpwrakazonenberg: you need to integrate this: eching and scanning in one easy device. put in the chip, press a button, out come transistor-level pictures :)11:28
kyaki have a name for that - IC scanner :)11:38
larscI guess I'm the only one who finds the airplane engine noise comforting11:39
kyakyeah.. at least it means that the engines are still running :)11:40
wpwraklarsc: there are some planes where it's not :) especially tail-engined ones with seats all the way into the hindmost corner. (and of course, no windows back there either)11:44
wpwraklarsc: but i think the real enemy here are human voices. especially those of young humans.11:45
larscthat's why I like the engine noise, it cancels out verything else11:46
wpwraklarsc: hmm, they have to rev very high to drown the shrieking of young humans.11:47
wpwraklarsc: i'm not sure i'd find it very comfortable to hear an engine go like that for very long. in fact, it probably won't :)11:48
larscazonenberg: over at #homecmos wolfgang is actually creating quite some noise14:20
wpwraklarsc: is he ? checking http://irclog.whitequark.org/homecmos/ doesn't look very noisy15:52
larscwith different ips15:52
wpwrakah, that kind of noise ;-)15:55
Fallenoumwalle: could you send me your tb_lm32_system as well as your test_mmu_*.elf?18:33
FallenouI bet my elf files are different, due to my toolchain, I will try to compare the generated assembly :)18:34
--- Sat Jan 12 201300:00

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