#milkymist IRC log for Wednesday, 2012-08-08

larsclekernel: no idea, I'm going to ask him05:43
larsclekernel: ok, no lattice fpga (at least not for hdmi rx), just a gui that looks similar07:20
lekernelhmm... displayport may also be an option. always the same high data rate (so no messy PLL reconfigurations) and directly supported by GTP transceivers, including the modes for 1080p60...10:33
lekerneland the upper layer protocol doesn't look too much like a kafkaesque mess à la USB10:38
lekernelhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTS3IUpVWus12:00
wpwrak"easy to use, well-tested, just works" and "oh, and you can easily flash firmware hacks" somehow don't seem to agree with each other ;)12:34
lekernelthe good news is this isn't our problem, and if we have displayport, then VGA converters (containing the DACs) have already been made (in)famous by Apple13:15
wpwrakheh :)13:16
HodappI'm wondering how much DP will catch on.13:17
wpwrakwhen i see the rate at which they're pumping out new digital video "standards" these days, i feel oddly comfortable with vga ;-)13:19
Hodappsame here.13:22
lekernelyeah but it requires expensive/messy DAC/ADCs13:24
lekernelHDMI or DP is direct routing to FPGA13:25
Hodapplekernel: Not if you only want... 8 colors!13:25
lekernel?13:25
wpwrakall the mass-market stuff has those ADCs/DACs. and it's still cheap ;-)13:25
larscwpwrak: but not 1080p!13:26
Hodappbut how fast do those DACs operate?13:26
lekernelHDMI can work at 720p60 and 1080p30 24bpp with the Spartan-6 SERDES13:26
lekerneland DP 1080p60 24bpp and above with the Spartan-6 GTP13:26
lekernelHodapp: can't see where this "8 colors" statement comes from13:27
Hodapplekernel: well, you have R, G, B, and on an FPGA you could set them to either low or high if you're driving them directly13:28
wpwrakmy fairly cheap screens work at 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz, fed by VGA (one is on DVI, though). and so do the cheap video cards that feed them.13:28
lekernelah, you were talking about VGA ;) right13:28
Hodappthus giving you black, red, green, blue, yellow, purple, orange, white.13:28
wpwraki guess that just proves that, as soon as you make millions of units, everything is cheap :)13:28
lekernelthe main annoyance with DP is that it has a backward compatibility mode with HDMI13:29
lekerneland you can't switch to SERDES in this case, because the GTP I/Os are dedicated13:30
wpwrakHodapp: add JUST ONE more bit and DOUBLE the colors ! :)13:30
wpwrakcan you just externally wire them together ? or is that already too much parasitic capacitance ?13:31
lekerneland the GTP has a minimum bit rate in the Gbps range, so the only solution to support this compatibility mode is to disable 8b10b encoding in the GTP, move it to the fabric, and oversample13:31
Hodappwpwrak: With what, an R-2R or something?13:31
lekernelwhich is kind of a royal pain in the ass13:31
wpwrakHodapp: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/web/13:31
lekernellattice transceivers are more hdmi-friendly13:33
lekernel"Lattice is currently using FLEXlm version 11.4." grmbl... so far confirms my opinion about lattice software13:56
Hodappgaaaaah14:26
lekernelWarning: You are running on an unsupported platform14:28
lekernel  'synplify_pro' only supports unknown14:28
lekernel  current platform: unknown 3.4.2-1.fc16.i68614:28
lekernel Error: Could not find /data/Lattice/2.0/synpbase/unknown/mbin/synbatch14:28
larscthe joy of closed source precompiled packages14:29
Fallenou...14:29
lekernelah, running the tools directly without the wrapper scripts/binaries seems to work14:39
lekernelexcept "Nodelocked licenses are not supported on Linux client." when you want to do anything...14:41
lekernelso... as I said earlier... lattice software is shitty14:41
wpwrakmaybe pester support ? :)14:45
HodappI made the mistake of giving Flexera my real work phone number when were looking into some information on the product that used to be called flexlm.14:49
lekerneland...?14:50
lekerneldid you get nasty calls from their lawyers? ;)14:50
HodappNo, I received annoying calls from their salesmen and emails to make sure I'd received the messages they'd left and then calls to make sure I'd gotten the emails.14:51
lekernelcould be worse...14:51
HodappThey usually went like this: "We need a price estimate for the items in a proposal."   "Er, well, the price depends on a lot of things..."   "Can you give us even a ballpark estimate?"   "Er, well, it depends........."14:52
HodappPICK ONE: [ ] $1,000 [ ] $10,000 [ ] $100,000 [ ] $1,000,00014:53
Hodapp*dead silence*14:53
lekernelthis one is nice too: http://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite/kb/freeze-reboot-windows-system-truecrypt.html14:53
wpwrakyeah, it's always nice when software whose unique purpose is to annoy you annoys you a little more14:57
lekernelI wonder how many hours of swearing and profanity have been caused by flexlm in total :)15:00
HodappI've been on hiatus from a lot of the design tools in this context since I left my job at Blah Blahco Whatevertronics15:02
lekerneloh, they didn't sell their crap only to the electronics industry15:03
lekernelhttp://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/index.php/t-901272.html15:03
HodappI know, but this is the place I encountered it most annoyingly15:03
GitHub170[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/dad4a91793f15864ab7e852aaf37e240c55758be15:34
GitHub170[migen/master] doc: framebuffer example - Sebastien Bourdeauducq15:34
larsclekernel: you once told we a nice trick to get something reduction operator like in vhdl. It was something like '1' when (foo = (others => '1')) else '0'16:07
larscthe all knowing log knows it: http://en.qi-hardware.com/mmlogs/milkymist_2012-01-12.log.html#t11:5716:19
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