#milkymist IRC log for Sunday, 2012-06-17

GitHub105[milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/gL1blw11:43
GitHub105[milkymist-ng/master] VGA framebuffer connections - Sebastien Bourdeauducq11:43
GitHub34[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/4873cfe1a70ae9c42d3b16665769acb423a5e57211:47
GitHub34[migen/master] flow/plumbing: Combinator/Splitter should not inherit CombinatorialActor - Sebastien Bourdeauducq11:47
qwebirc13815Hello everybody..14:52
dreammerah, more personal :)14:52
dreammerI got a small question for you all.. i could not really find it in the manual... I saw somebody play with grafix. had 24frames of a loop with a ball in it..  and they spoke of 2 grafix channels..14:55
dreammersounds like fun.. but..14:55
kristianpaulhi dreammer14:55
dreammerdoes that mean if i animate 2 things with those grafix channels.. i cant get those nice plasma fields anymore14:55
dreammer(at the same time)14:55
dreammerhello kristian14:55
kristianpauldreammer: that persona was wpwrak14:56
dreammerah :) cool14:57
dreammeri see him in the list.. but i am not sure he is awake to tell this unknowing pre-beginner :)14:57
kristianpaulhe is, well i guess :)14:57
dreammerin reality i want to combine my puppet-animations, with nice funky colours.. and 1 or 2 dmx lights in my studio14:58
kristianpaulis a good question, but i guess you could include any effect on the loop /talking about plasma)14:58
dreammerheh, if i can get it to work.. it saves me on 7hour+ renderingtimes on the stuff i make now :)14:58
dreammerah.. so i make my 24frame puppet dance.. and make that channel glow14:59
dreammeri get puppet + strange colours14:59
dreammerheheh14:59
dreammerif i put 3 puppets in channel 1.. and 3 in channel 2.. i get 6 puppets :)14:59
dreammerhmm that sounds nice :)14:59
dreammerthank you kristian.. i think its getting slightly clearer for me15:01
kristianpaulhe, well not trust me much, but as soon as you can write those variables related with plasma (that i dont remenber names at the moment)15:02
kristianpaulit should work, had you tried?15:02
kristianpaulyou know what is werner's patch name right?15:02
dreammeri have not tried yet.. i am a pre-beginner because i did not exactly buy the machine yet..15:03
dreammerbut normally before i buy stuff.. i read manuals.. look at examples and all that15:03
lekerneldreammer: if I understand correctly, you want to add puppet animations to the "vibrant plasma fields" patch?15:03
kristianpaulyes i understand same15:03
dreammeri saw somebody (sorry i am really bad with names) connect dmx lights and make m do what i want15:03
kristianpaulphew :)15:03
dreammerand yes.. i like my puppets and i like "pretty colours"15:04
kristianpauldreammer: dmx, that was xiangfu (sleeping now guess)15:04
dreammerso a machine that would turn my studio into a disco.. and give me the abbility to stare at glowing puppets dancing to my beats15:04
dreammeris way cool :)15:04
kristianpaulsounds fun indeed :)15:05
dreammercan i make it 1 step more difficult .. when i jam.. i do multiple songs in 1 go... i bet i can change the "patch" with a midi program message or something15:05
kristianpaulyes you can15:06
kristianpaulmidi or keyboard shortcut15:06
dreammerand "switch puppets A and B + starfield" to puppet C and D + other form of pretty colour15:06
dreammerah cool :)15:06
kristianpauli remenber..15:06
kristianpauldreammer: when you got your M1?15:06
dreammernot yet :) i am in the budget / reading manual fase15:06
dreammerat the moment i do my stuff with sony vegas.. which is nice.. but renderingtimes are killing me15:07
kristianpaulGeiss & Werner - Tornado (Rain Dance MIDI RMX).fnp15:07
kristianpaulat what resolution you render?15:07
dreammerslightly higher then hd-tv15:08
kristianpauloh15:08
dreammeri do not mind if the milkyone isnt true hd or something.. i dont think i ever buy a full-hd beamer15:08
kristianpaulah good :-)15:09
kristianpaulsee lekernel ;)15:09
kristianpaulokay, nice tou meet you dreammer :) but i must leave (visit grandma)15:10
dreammerthanks for your time kristian..15:10
kristianpaulplease stay bit longer so other could reply your inquiries15:10
dreammeri am not running :)15:10
kristianpaulor check irc logs http://en.qi-hardware.com/mmlogs15:10
kristianpaullater if you leave soon15:10
kristianpaulgood !15:10
GitHub79[milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/CgfSeQ15:24
GitHub79[milkymist-ng/master] framebuffer: frame initiator - Sebastien Bourdeauducq15:24
wpwrakhere he is, just back from a siesta :) reading the backlog ...15:40
dreammerhello :)15:43
dreammeri heard you was the nice person that made the circles with a ball in it animation demo-movie :)15:43
dreammeri am the weird dutch, that want to do it with puppets instead of circles...15:43
wpwrakyup, guilty as charged :)15:43
dreammerso if i get this right.. you made 24images, loaded them into your m1.. put them in some sort of array15:44
dreammerand played it back?15:44
wpwrakthe "two channels" refer to images (PNG, etc.). in addition to the images, you still get the usual effects.15:44
wpwrakyes, correct15:44
wpwraki made a list of images and told each channel which image (by index) to show15:45
dreammeraah :) so a complete starfield + 2 channels to put what ever it is you animate..15:45
dreammeras in 2 dancing puppets in a starfield :)15:45
dreammerand may i be curious what the resolution was of your animation frames?15:46
wpwrakthe animations you refer to are here: https://github.com/milkymist/flickernoise/tree/master/patches/demo/wheel/15:46
wpwrakthe images were 216x216 pixels each, if my comments can be trusted15:47
wpwrak(M1 works with fairly low resolutions)15:47
dreammerah... hmmm i wonder how my puppets look at 216*216 ..15:48
wpwrakwhen mixing images with other effects, note that the effects work on the whole picture. so any distortions/fading applies to the images as well15:48
dreammerhmmm..  i see what you mean..15:48
wpwrakthis patch may be a bit closer to your puppets: https://github.com/milkymist/flickernoise/tree/master/patches/demo/pacman/15:49
wpwrakit has two images, pac man and ghost. they can be moved around. and there's some light distortion/fading that's applied to the whole picture15:49
dreammeri see..15:50
wpwrakthe pacman and ghost images can also be changed. e.g., you can turn pacman into a ghost - or even into some stars15:50
dreammerhehehe.. thats neat15:50
wpwrakand you could of course combine this with image sequence effects, like in the "wheel" demo15:51
dreammerwell i liked the wheel demo..15:51
dreammerbasicly what i do is : make techno...  but hmmm just putting songs online for me was not enough.. did not feel right..15:51
wpwrakthere is one list of images shared by both channels. but both can use separate ranges of indices.15:52
dreammerso i started making clippies.. but none of my friends wanted to help... so i ended up making animations with gi-joe puppets15:52
dreammerso yeah :) by the looks of it .. i want my puppets instead of the wheel :)15:52
wpwrak(puppets) heh, nice ;-)15:52
wpwrakyeah, the wheel does get boring after a while :)15:53
dreammerprobably :) but i got more then 190 !! puppet animations.. of atleast 24frames a piece :)15:53
dreammerplay those in any direction.. and swap them on a bar basis.. and hmm15:54
dreammerunlimited clippies without being "boring"15:54
dreammeri can just jam all day.. and upload it to youtube15:54
wpwrakwow. that's a lot :)15:55
dreammerbeen a bit busy :)15:55
wpwrakyou may run into two kinds of limitations: the number of images M1 can hold in memory and the time you're willing to wait while your patch is loading15:56
dreammerthe whole idea is kinda like making a feature film length movie-like video clip :)15:56
dreammerheh.. yeah something inside me says i need to build myself a vj computer again15:56
dreammeri had one a long time ago..15:56
wpwrakwhen loading a patch, M1 converts each image to an internal format. that takes a bit of time. so if you have a lot of images, you'll have a noticeable delay15:56
dreammerno offence.. i like the m1.. and what i seen.. but hmmm better for background instead of videoclip generator as i see it15:57
dreammera combi be fun.. the vj computer to film "the front" and the m1 to be projected behind me15:57
wpwrakmaybe we should add "raw" image support at some point in time, to avoid the conversion in cases where you have a lot of them ...15:57
lekernelthen there will be the flash size limitation ...15:57
lekernelthe only good way to solve this imo is to have hw decoding of video clips15:58
wpwrakthat's more tricky :)15:58
lekerneleg vp815:58
wpwrakdo they release their gateware sources yet ?15:59
lekernelno15:59
wpwrakseems they're in no hurry to gain more popularity :-(16:00
lekernelwell, open source gateware isn't exactly popular, is it?16:00
dreammerwhats opensource gateware?? (new term for me)16:00
wpwraklekernel: it has its followers ...16:01
lekerneldreammer: logic designs (e.g. CPUs, video decoding accelerators, GPUs, ...) that are released under an open source license16:01
wpwrakgateware = the "software" that defines the fpga's "circuit"16:01
dreammeroooh.. that fpga was field programmable gate array wasnt it..16:03
dreammersome chip you could program to be "any chip"16:03
dreammerand the gate ware is the "firmware" to make that fpga into "what ever"16:03
dreammercorrect?16:03
wpwrakyes, exactly16:06
wpwrakall the core logic of M1 is in an FPGA (CPU core, video controller, etc.)16:07
dreammercool :) educational chat this is16:07
wpwrakthe peripheral chips only do relatively simple things. convert video between analog and digital, and such16:08
wpwrakadvantages of this approach include a very high degree of flexibility. e.g., lekernel is currently working on a complete redesign of the memory interface what will make it a lot faster16:09
dreammerbweh.. and instead of upgrading firmware .. you actually upgrade the fpga.. and have new device..16:09
dreammerhehehe thats almost "magic" to me16:09
wpwrakdrawbacks include not being as efficient as an ASIC (a non-programmable chip) would be. e.g., the CPU core runs at only 80 MHz.16:09
wpwrakyeah, it's a lot of fun to make new devices that way :)16:10
dreammernot so sure if i can upgrade my knowledge to write new hardware.. i am happy i got my puppets to move :)16:10
dreammerheheh the aphex of my creativity :)16:11
dreammerhehehe16:11
wpwrake.g., i once made a board with 24 LEDs: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/m1/leds/ledm-in-m1.jpg16:11
dreammerpretty16:11
wpwrakplus the controller that does the multiplexing with separate brightness for each LED in the FPGA (i.e., it's a 24-channel PWM controller)16:12
wpwrakthe programming of such hardware is not excessively difficult. about as hard or easy as writing code in C. of course, you have to learn a few new concepts, but it's not something totally alien16:13
dreammerah.. sounds doable.. :)16:14
dreammeri almost made a pwm-controller for my "set-lights"  for the puppets..16:14
wpwrake.g., that LED controller was my first such project and it took me only about a day to do it. i had a bit of help with people on this channel to figure out some of the concepts, though. and i had a book about verilog.16:14
dreammerbut its still on the list of "what to do on a boring sunday"16:14
dreammeri should learn it one day though.. i have the feeling it will make my live as "a wannabe artist" easier :)16:15
wpwrakM1 has an expansion connector with some 10 I/O pins. that LED array is a board that plus into that. so it's pretty nice for this sort of experiments.16:16
dreammerhmmm.. :) i wonder if you could connect them with stepped motors :)16:16
dreammerbuild a box with 5 stepmotors on it.. a few mirrors and a dmx light..16:17
dreammerstick puppet on stepped motor16:17
wpwrakof course, the system is more expensive than a bare-bones FPGA development board, but then it's also a fairly complete little "PC"16:17
dreammermake it move on the beat :)16:17
dreammerdancing puppets without the need of making 200.000 frames :)16:17
wpwrakfor motors, you'd need to make a driver circuit. but besides that, why not16:17
dreammerfunny...16:17
dreammeri do not think the m1 will solve all my problems.. but it does sound like a freaky thing to play with if i upgrade my knowledge a fair bit16:18
wpwrakand you'd have the ability to make the controller circuit run things nicely in parallel. without all the messy details of writing code that emits such pulses with the exact timing.16:18
dreammeri see potential in that.16:19
wpwrakyeah, M1 is a fun device for experimenting and exploring. perhaps more so than it is a VJ tool16:19
dreammerthats ok :) if i wasnt into experimenting.. i would not be doing what i was doing :)16:20
dreammerheh, i am getting in the mood to share some puppetry and all that... http://www.muzu.tv/dreammer16:21
dreammerthats kinda the stuff i make..16:21
dreammersorry bout the commercials... i do not want to make money of people that educate me.. but hmm its not on a non-commercial site anymore..16:22
dreammereven youtube gives you adds now16:22
wpwrakhmm, no content visible with chromium16:24
wpwrakah, maybe this is a hint: http://www.muzu.tv/territoryUnavailable/16:25
wpwrakwrong part of the world16:25
dreammerthats weird :) it should be global..16:26
dreammerhttp://www.youtube.com/dedreammer <--- less up2date and all that16:26
dreammeri did not know that muzu did teritory blocking.. they should not..16:27
wpwraknobody should :)16:29
dreammeragreed ..16:30
dreammeri like my songs and all that.. but i had my fun with it.. if others want to have fun with it.. be my guest16:31
dreammeronce i am completely done having fun with my own stuff.. i prob make a site where i can dump all loops / samples /puppetry and all that16:33
dreammerso people can play "i wanna be dreammer 2" at home :)16:33
GitHub120[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/compare/4873cfe1a70a...66ac62d0bbcb16:34
GitHub120[migen/master] actorlib/control: use numbers of bits instead of maxima - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:34
GitHub120[migen/master] flow/network: fix handling of edges with subrecords at both ends - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:34
wpwraknice clip. now let's see the puppets ... "maharadja" has them, right ?16:34
dreammerjup..16:34
dreammermaharadja was created using some vj program..16:34
dreammerif you want better puppetry.. go for "the techno that sounded like a cat"16:34
dreammeror "the technotrancer"16:35
wpwraklet's see ...16:35
GitHub163[milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/1yjYug16:38
GitHub163[milkymist-ng/master] framebuffer: address generator and DMA - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:38
lekernelhey, nice clip on muzu.tv16:44
dreammerthank you lekernel..16:44
wpwrakah yes, a lot more realistic. sometimes, you could mistake them for real people in "cat". you should include a few barbies, though ;-)16:47
dreammerHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAH16:47
dreammeryour not the first one.. wait.. let me show this to my wife :) she couldnt believe people noticed it16:48
dreammerI do have barbies (well girl wrestlers) but it took me about 9 months !! to find them16:48
dreammeranimatable girl action figures are sooo hard to find16:48
dreammerbarbies dont move enough.. bratz dolls could not stand up straight well enough :)16:49
lekernelreminds me it's been a while since the last good and big techno party... hmm :)16:49
dreammerheh.. been about 5 years for me i think.. but then again.. i just create my own party16:50
dreammereasier. it will just stay 1998 for me :)16:50
wpwrakso you found the fountain of eternal youth ;-)16:52
dreammerin a way.. yes16:53
dreammerand i like it16:53
wpwrak(girl action figures) no tomb raiders, catwomen, etc. ?16:53
dreammerwell.. also had a bit to do with budget..16:53
dreammerif you ebay for it.. it is findable.. but some of those puppets will be 10pound a piece16:54
dreammeror be one of the kind that does not move.. or does not standup16:54
dreammerso took me long to find girlpuppets which "could stand up" be fully possable.. and be in rougly the same dimensions as the male puppets16:55
dreammeroh and did not cost more then 1 or 2 pound a piece16:55
wpwrakah, lots of requirements :)16:56
dreammeryes..16:56
dreammerwhen i started.. i thought it be "easier"16:56
dreammerbut its not..16:56
dreammerheheheh16:56
dreammerthough easier then getting your friends dressed up on the beach pretending their on the party of their lifetime16:56
dreammerin case you wondering.. why budgetting on this... well i used over 60 puppets to get to the collection of "useable puppets" i got now16:57
dreammerso if i payed 10pound a piece.. that be 600!! pounds worth of puppets16:58
dreammerheheheh..16:58
dreammerand thats excluding building materials for some backgrounds.. and making clothing for some of them16:58
wpwrakphew. quite a cast :)16:59
dreammerjup :)16:59
sh4rm4probably easier to figure how blender works...16:59
dreammerhehehe.. :) i almost figured out how blender works..17:00
dreammer(look for "i am the keeper of the machines v1.006)17:00
dreammerbut blender is going 2 be used to stitch all the clips together when i am done..17:00
dreammerthen you be looking at a mega big techno party..17:00
dreammer(and waste about an hour and a half of your life looking at it)17:01
azonenberglol17:01
azonenbergSo I'm making good progress on my internal LA, it now computes all of the trigger masks properly17:02
azonenbergi should have a testable alpha later today or tomorrow at the latest17:02
azonenbergthis is what the UI looks like now http://i.imgur.com/TaWUA.png :D17:02
azonenbergwolfspraul: see above17:06
lekernelazonenberg: looks good. but have you had a look at sigrok, finally?17:23
lekernelI have never touched it, but if it's good it would be a shame to reinvent wheels...17:24
azonenberglekernel: they're intended for different purposes17:47
azonenbergMost of what i'm doing would have to be redone anyway if i was making a sigrok plugin, it looks17:47
azonenbergMy entire project is focused on data acquisition17:48
azonenbergthe analysis can be done by anything that can read a vcd file17:48
azonenbergfor now i'm using gtkwave17:48
azonenbergyou'd need to write a libsigrok plugin to interface with the hardware anyway17:49
azonenbergand that's about all i'm doing17:49
azonenbergthat equivalent module17:49
lekernelhttp://www.falsebit.com/bit-stream/bit-stream-articles/114-blip-festival-2012-up-now-burnkit2600-m-no-carrier.html19:44
Fallenouis the video generated by a M1 ?19:51
lekernelI think so. some pictures are definitely from M1 patches.19:52
Fallenouwolfspraul: you see, the M1 is used in the real world by real customers who are - I hope - enjoying it :)19:54
lekernelaha! look what I found http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL181AAD8063FCC9DC20:08
lekernelnow that's definitely m1 :)20:08
wpwraklooks rather impressive20:12
wpwrakare you sure it's M1 ? so little green ;-)20:12
Fallenouyeah it's M1 :)20:12
Fallenouthey are doing it really nicely20:13
FallenouDo you know if they modified the patches ? or if they used the provided ones ?20:13
Fallenouif they modified them they could contribute them back :)20:13
lekernelthere's some video mixing involved with something else (DOS demos I think) eg in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFmU_DNySYQ20:13
lekernelhe modified the patches20:14
Fallenouwow very nice20:14
FallenouM1 and <whatever> integrate nicely into one final display20:14
Fallenoudo you know how much time did he spend on studying how to use the M1 ?20:15
Fallenoudid you help him during a few hours explaining how it works ?20:15
Fallenouthe FNP language I mean20:15
lekernelwpwrak: green will go. i'm working on the 10:10:10 framebuffer atm20:16
lekerneldesigned with the dataflow system20:17
lekernelFallenou: no... he just dropped by a few times on irc... he used the milkdrop docs I think20:17
lekernelno matter how obscure some people claim milkdrop is, there are dozens of thousands of presets for it20:18
wpwraknice use of image support20:18
lekernelsome more pictures http://www.flickr.com/photos/burnkit2600/galleries/7215762994460099420:27
Fallenouhum macports guys have open a trac ticket to notice everyone that all rtems ports (binutils and gcc ones) are out of date20:51
Fallenouhttps://trac.macports.org/ticket/31945#comment:320:53
Fallenouif one day I don't know what to do I could try to end what I started to get rtems lm32 toolchain integrated in macports20:54
Fallenougn8 ! short week-end is short :(21:10
lekernelgn821:11
kristianpaulmilkymist look so 80's some of those videos plus nice music .love it :-D22:54
kristianpaulthey swich between patches very fast !!22:56
kristianpaulis that the real time thing? :-)22:57
kristianpaulawesome23:02
kristianpaulsomething get bit bored aboout  flickernoise is that mirrored effetcs with respect x/y axis..23:07
kristianpaulstill nocarrier now how to save interesting effects for the end23:14
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