#milkymist IRC log for Wednesday, 2012-02-22

kristianpaullarsc: you meant rtems right?00:58
kristianpaulor the libc.c file included in the milkymist repo00:59
xiangfuwhat is the 'qemu-lm32/tests/lm32 ' for?04:11
xiangfuwpwrak, the 'wheel' patch give me a black screen. I use the latest libfpvm and 'imaginarium'04:55
wpwrakxiangfu: have you set the first two faders to a non-zero value ?05:09
wpwrak(size and alpha)05:09
xiangfuwpwrak, I don't have LV3.05:10
xiangfuno midi controller connected.05:11
xiangfuthe usb-midi never worked here. :(05:13
xiangfuI have ICON  in my desk.05:13
xiangfuwpwrak, I got the picture. by assign all size and alpha to the ICON fad105:18
xiangfunow they are moving..05:22
wpwrakso the icon is working ? over usb ? or via OSC ?05:23
xiangfudirect MIDI port.05:23
xiangfuusb: NO.05:23
xiangfuI connect the icon through my laptop.05:23
xiangfuICON --> laptop(usb-midi conveter) --> M105:24
xiangfuICON --> M1 . never work here :(05:24
wpwrakhmm ... maybe you need to update the SoC ?05:24
wpwrakthere was a usb-related soc change. a long time ago. but maybe you haven't updated it since05:25
xiangfuwpwrak, I am flashing this one: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120214-0309/05:28
xiangfuwpwrak, not working. by using 20120214-0309/soc.fpg05:32
wpwrakgrmbl05:32
xiangfuwpwrak, maybe there is something different between build host and your laptop.05:33
xiangfuwpwrak, maybe I try your images first.05:33
wpwrakcladamw: btw, another option to kill the DCC5V issue would be to simply use a load switch with current limitation. e.g., this one doesn't look too bad: http://www.micrel.com/_PDF/mic2090_1.pdf05:35
wpwrakhttp://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/MIC2090-2YM5%20TR/576-3964-1-ND/276409005:36
wpwrak73 us-cents @ 100 units05:36
wolfspraulI had a thought about USB client vs. host05:37
wolfspraulshould one of the USB ports in R4 be a client?05:37
wolfspraulif not, how does this on-the-go stuff work actually, and can M1 signal host/client over otg (assuming software updates, but no electrical updates)?05:38
wpwrakdunno how otg works. if you want to turn a port into a traditional usb device, you need to rearrange a few resistors05:39
wpwrakso perhaps otg has special transceivers that switch the resistors05:40
wolfspraulshould one of the R4 USB ports be a client?05:41
wolfspraulmaybe it's better to skip that and look at otg right away, if it's a bigger thing then maybe in a future revision...05:43
wpwrakdunno. if it means taking away a host port, probably not.05:43
cladamwwpwrak, yours micrel part is fix limit 50mA which is better than mine I found from ON Semi. ;-) Nice, but a little bit price, 57 us-cent @ 100 pcs. yup, this candidate is surely better if don't care couple cents. ;-)05:43
cladamwwpwrak, thanks for spending time to find another part. :-)05:44
wpwrakcladamw: i just entered the parameters and picked the cheapest one ;-))05:44
wpwrakwolfspraul: yes, otg or a dedicated device port (to avoid messy cabling) would be better05:45
wolfspraulsounds like work for R5...05:45
wpwrakwe must leave some things for it ;-)05:46
cladamwwpwrak, wolfspraul we still have reservation on few resistors for usb client but unpopulated only. client question is good, but i don't think to include otg in R4, but if R5, is not bad. ;-)05:48
cladamwwpwrak, yours isn't the cheapest. well. Micrel's auto-retry version is better than latch off one, I like it.05:52
wpwrakyeah, it seems to be nicely done. that way, we won't have DCC5V silently burn half a watt or so if there's a short05:53
cladamwso should be p/n: MIC2090-1YM5 (auto-retry ) not 2YM5 (latch off).06:04
wpwrakoh, right. sorry.06:06
cladamwits output to cut 50mA is 6.5ms after "Enabled to short". that time is enough and good though. page 11.06:13
wpwraktD_FAULT is just the indication. the response time of the current limiter seems to be tSC_RESP = 20 ns06:19
rohmorning06:21
rohignore otg. its hell, and nobody uses it in reality. support host and maybe client if needed. but that standards compliant mode switching is madness06:22
cladamwwpwrak, yup, tSC_RESP = 20 ns internally response only, but Iin & Iout starts to off after couple ms when short detected. no ?06:26
cladamwaha...Tautostart is 60ms typ. ;-)06:28
wpwrak(after a couple of ms) not sure. it seems that current and voltage change at pretty much the same time.06:29
wpwrak(60 ms) better than the cooling off period of a PTC :)06:30
cladamwoah...PTC needs long recovery time. Yup. with extra 20~30 usd cents to get a better chip & easy use & no much experiments.06:36
wpwrakhappy ending ? ;-)06:39
wolfspraulroh: how does the switching work?06:39
cladamwwolfspraul, wpwrak, btw, i face your this fix version is a candidate to source. How do you think? need to order 3~5pcs in advance with PTC 50mA hold, or we order both or stick Micrel ?06:40
wolfspraulwhat? :-)06:40
wolfspraulI have no idea what you are talking about...06:40
cladamwurp? wpwrak picked a good part of Micrel current limit switch @ 0.729/100pcs which can solve DVI's DDC short/limit idea.06:42
wolfsprauland? any question I can help with?06:44
cladamwi think that we can order few 3~5pcs to do a quick test. :-)06:45
wolfspraultesting sounds good!06:46
rohwolfspraul: badly usually. ive seen otg 'compliant' nokia devices fighting each other for hours06:46
cladamwalthough from its data info there, we already like it though, wpwrak don't you ?06:46
rohfunny game... they start wobbling each other up etc06:46
rohif you use the 'correct' otg cables (nobody has them) it _should_ work, but that seems to be theory06:47
wpwrakcladamw: yeah. i like it much better than any solution with discrete parts :)06:52
wpwrakroh: should be fun when both sides decide to supply power ;-)06:53
rohwpwrak: well... not sooo bad. the oc protection should trigger worst case06:53
cladamwwpwrak, oah..yup, yes. That ON semi part is a adj. version that means fine tune job to be done.(bad!), The Micrel is fixed version. Better !06:54
wpwrakcladamw: keeps the component count low ;-)06:56
wolfspraulspecial cable even for otg?06:59
cladamwwpwrak, what do you mean? for MIC2090-1YM5, need two 10uF for its input/output. so three components only.06:59
wpwrakcladamw: yes. 3 instead of 4-5 for an adjustable solution07:01
wpwrakanyway, time to crawl to bed. gotta be up in the morning for the dentist.07:02
cladamwmm..needs another two resistors: R1/R3, C1/C2, chip itself.07:02
cladamwwpwrak, night.07:02
qi-botThe Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120222-0643/07:20
rohwolfspraul: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go07:38
rohsee connectors. it needs the id pin wired depending on device or host role07:38
rohi'd recomend getting hub to work before even thinking about usb-client or even usb-otg support... atleast thats my order of importance.07:43
wolfsprauloh sure :-)08:04
wolfspraulI am just thinking ahead because electrical issues cannot be software-updated...08:04
wolfspraulroh: I have a tool question. for the milkymist one case, we have the 2D laser files in qcad/dxf08:05
wolfsprauland then you have a 1-page svg manual, I think - drawn in which program? inkscape?08:05
rohyes. that was made with inkscape08:05
wolfspraulhow about some cad software that would have a 3d version of the case?08:05
rohi dont have such a model08:06
wolfspraulso you can see more precisely than in the svg how it's assembled, which spacers/screws go where, etc.08:06
wolfspraulwhich software would you think could work for that?08:06
wolfspraulwould it be separate from the qcad/dxf files? or can it be in qcad as well?08:06
rohqcad is a 2d only format08:06
wolfspraulah08:07
rohs/format/program08:08
wolfspraulanything else on your mind in that direction? (3d)08:08
rohdxf can support 3d i guess.. not sure tho08:08
rohin tools? good question. all 3d stuff i made i did with openscad so far08:10
rohand used stl as fileformat08:10
wolfspraulok nice, that's a starting point. I think openscad was also in werner's comparisons a way back. lemme check...08:12
rohi guess one could use the dxf file, cut the parts apart into seperate files or layers and extrude and assemble the parts in openscad to a 3d model, and add the spacers.08:16
rohi wonder if and how we could render a 3d view of the pcb. needs models of all parts etc08:17
wolfspraulkicad supports vrml export, but as you said I think many parameters are missing to make this really good08:18
wolfsprauland the kicad component libraries are a desert...08:18
rohhehe08:20
rohonly a idea... a friend here at raumfahrtagentur rendered our hausbus-module from eagle08:21
wolfspraulI like 3D models and in fact any way of viewing/entrance point that makes it easy to get an understanding of what's inside, how it's assembled, etc.08:21
rohbut also only into a png. i think he used some raytracer08:21
wolfsprauloh the vrml output works - just many details missing08:22
wolfspraulpng also of course, no problem08:22
rohive got no clue how and if to convert vrml into something like stl or so... but we'll find out08:27
GitHub176[scripts] xiangfu pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5F95tA09:33
GitHub176[scripts/master] update Xilinx ISE to 13.4 under build host - Xiangfu Liu09:33
qi-botThe Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120222-0830/09:34
xiangfuthis build ^ using the milkymist hid branch and flickernoise imaginarium branch09:35
xiangfuhttp://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120222-0830/VERSIONS09:35
Action: xiangfu want people try Werner's midi stuff :D09:35
xiangfuthe next build will be use ISE 13.4 .09:36
Fallenouxiangfu: is it normal that path to ISE is hardcoded ?09:49
Fallenoumine is in /opt09:49
lekernelyou can use the $XILINX environment variable set by settings??.sh09:55
kristianpaulmorning10:49
Fallenouhi10:49
wolfspraulmorning11:12
qi-botThe Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120222-1044/11:24
lekernelmoin11:30
xiangfuFallenou, by default it's installed to /opt/.12:07
xiangfu'milkymist-firmware-20120222-1044/' is using 13.412:09
lekernelhttp://opencores.org/newsletter,2012,0213:32
Fallenouohoh13:35
Fallenoucongratz !13:35
FallenouS├ębastien Bourdeauducq, OpenCores user <= the signature is somehow very funny13:36
qi-botThe Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120222-1315/13:55
qi-botThe firmware (with branch M:hid, F:imaginarium) build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120222-1455/15:35
lekernelwpwrak: green light for web updates?16:02
wpwrakhmm, don't you want to add ffmpeg too, so that we can close the chapter on image handling ? or is this still too far off ?16:13
lekernelyes, and try to sync with RTEMS upstream too... but except that, all OK?16:14
wpwrakoh, the images support is good to go as far as i'm concerned16:16
lekernelok. I'll test on the hardware my brand new DDR PHY which now works in simulation, and then switch to FN a bit16:17
wpwrakfor frame sequences, perhaps the best way to handle them would be to have a set of variables imageN_frame that works just like imageN_index, but on the respective frame of the image file16:17
lekernelI hope it won't end up in a massive PCB-level SI/timing clusterfuck16:18
wpwrakwe can also provide variables imageN_frames that get set according to the number of frames in the selected image. you'd still get that one frame update delay, but if imageN_frames is used before setting imageN_index, that would even look natural. so i guess we can live with that.16:19
wpwrak(PHY fun) famous last words ;-)16:20
FallenouI just noticed there is no "NEWS" part in the milkymist web site16:34
Fallenouon the first page it could be nice to have a few "news"16:34
FallenouI think we would have plenty of content to put in it16:34
Fallenousince it's developing like crazy down here16:35
Fallenouto announce new midi stuff , more usb support, image support, new RC4 release etc16:36
lekernelha! xilinx is now following us on twitter ...17:59
larsclekernel: time for some ranting ;)19:06
wolfspraulFallenou: R4, we removed the 'C'23:14
wolfspraulit's a revision/release now, no more 'candidate' :-)23:14
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