#milkymist IRC log for Wednesday, 2012-02-15

cladamwwpwrak, hi, Joerg replied with comments but forgot to cc. so he thought that "The basic schematics to detect plug-in are nice and OK". ;-)01:18
wpwrakwhee, congratulations !01:41
wpwrakit's not easy to please joerg ;-)01:41
rohcladamw: do we plan to wire the spdif out to some header?01:42
cladamwroh, wow. you are the first one to ask this spdif question now after rc3. good question. wpwrak how do think about first 'potential' use case ?01:44
rohthe mm1 could be used as a synthesizer for audio too with other sw. and digital out is the best possible quality.01:45
wpwraki don't know spdif. never used it.01:45
rohwpwrak: serial uncompressed audio. consumer standard. its used via toslink optical or rca electrical ports.01:46
rohi use it where possible. no ground loops, cheap, no white noise anymore.01:46
rohi dont think one should invest lots of money, i just think its there, and it would be nice not to waste it if there is a free pin on some extension header01:47
cladamwwpwrak, roh, in rc3, yes m1 have spdif out, but latest proposed for R4 draft, it's gone. phew~ now seems goes back to use case again. :)01:48
rohthe signal itself is cmos level i think. manchmester encoded or so01:48
rohcladamw: ah. why was it removed? not enough pins left?01:48
cladamwthe spdif was wired to J3 which decided to remove whole J3 though in irc channel discussion, need to search.01:50
cladamwalso the new idea of U-Shaped expansion female headers and layout routes for DVI-I, those are some reasons to reserve space, etc...01:51
rohi see. maybe we can add some unsoldered holes in 2.54 spacing. 4 pins with 5 or 3.3V, gnd and spdif-en and spdif-out. but on some other expansion would be fine too01:52
kristianpauloh interesting new PHY IP core from xilinx :)01:58
kristianpaulhow fast is the system memory with this?01:59
cladamwfrom figure 19 on page 33 of http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM9707.pdf  it needs DVDD( i.e. present 3.3V)02:00
cladamwroh, well... to have spdif feature indeed is a good one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF02:11
roh :)02:11
cladamwi quite don't know how many user will use this great stuff in music industries, but needs to ask sebastien wolfspraul werner how they feel this feature in the end though. ;-)02:13
rohsure.02:13
rohin the end one would need sw anyhow02:13
cladamwwpwrak, regards to DMX/MIDI insertion/detection features, do you have any idea ?02:17
wpwrak(spdif) i have no opinion on it, except that, if you add it, don't make it a big deal02:21
cladamwwpwrak, :-)02:22
wpwrak(midi insertion) i suppose you could measure the current you can sink on the TX port. but ... do you really want to do that ?02:24
wpwrakon RX ... not sure what the idle state is. if it's pin 4 high and ping 5 low, then you could detect the current02:25
wpwraki.e., MIDI_RX would change once something it connected02:25
wpwraks/it/is/02:25
cladamwyes, i thought about current measuring way, but i've never tried midi device. so... still need to read more on http://www.midi.org/techspecs/index.php02:31
wpwraki wouldn't bother with trying to detect tx insertion. we don't even know if all midi devices implement the interface like this. maybe some use voltage sensing and have a high impedance.02:34
cladamwthe current sink from TX may always be variable. not easy to determine how threshold will be.02:34
wpwrakyup02:34
wpwrakthat's what i suspect as well02:35
cladamwlike CMRR amplifier to detect variable voltage changes. not sure... need to study again.02:36
GitHub98[flickernoise] wpwrak pushed 2 new commits to direct-midi: http://git.io/_4Z3Kw04:45
GitHub98[flickernoise/direct-midi] First draft of MIDI documentation - Werner Almesberger04:45
GitHub98[flickernoise/direct-midi] T.fnp: improved structure of patch - Werner Almesberger04:45
wolfspraulI don't know spdif either, but if roh likes it that's a good argument for keeping it somewhere. Let's see what Sebastien says :-)06:07
rohhm. spec-ing protocols isnt something easy... sigh06:18
Action: roh just wrote down a wire protocol spec for something we are working on at rfa06:18
rohor rather a rfc of one and only for the L1 and parts of L206:19
roha decentralised SPS :)06:20
cladamwwolfspraul, (insertion/detection) seem now we have: DC power-in detect, audio line-in/out, else we don't know yet ot even too much works needed or adding chips, like midi ports, i think it needs differential amplifier chip to sense current but also not indicates a cable plugged (if there's no power turned on on midi device side)06:29
cladamw(i.e. if a midi cable with source device(no power) plug-in to M1 midi rx connector, in this case, i currently don't know how to add circuits for it.06:31
wolfspraulwait, wait. no complications.06:31
wolfspraulfirst let's document, for each connector06:31
wolfspraulcan we do that in the wiki?06:32
wolfspraullet's document what we have now06:32
wolfspraulthen we need to think about what is desirable06:32
cladamwhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_RC3_Known_Issues#R4_draft_feedback06:38
wpwraki would just not try to detect insertion in cases like MIDI TX :)06:41
cladamwwpwrak, yes, after lunch while I was brainstorming myself, it's too complex. i don't want to use a current like cmrr or differetial amplifier to sense it. ;-)06:45
cladamwwolfspraul, reload link again. I just added some links for it. ;-)06:45
wolfsprauloh yes, sure. we do *not* want to add anything first.06:47
wolfsprauljust try to understand, use case, etc.06:47
wpwrakbeware the overengineer;-)06:47
cladamwwpwrak, the answer from me for MIDI insertion, i give it up. ;-) your answer was too veiled not technical though. ;-)06:48
wpwrakcladamw: yeah, i think we may be able to handle cable detection of MIDI RX, though. lemme check ...06:48
wpwrak(handle) that is, in software06:48
cladamwwpwrak, (make sense) wolfspraul wanted when any cable inserts, then M1 shows up that it's coming. but how about even user don't turn on their own midi device power ? if no power, no sense current you can pick up. ;-) but how about like voltage like finger touch ?06:51
wolfspraulno, wait06:51
wolfspraulI want to *understand* the cable insertion/removal detection for each connector06:52
wolfspraulsome may have it implicitly (like ethernet), for some it may not create any conceivable value, for some it may be electrically easy, for some it may be electrically hard, and so on06:52
wolfspraulgive me 30 min, I'm right back...06:53
cladamwyuh...like i said and like wener said we should not do midi TX insertion. ;-)06:53
wolfspraulsure06:54
wpwrakhmm no, when idle, MIDI doesn't have current (checked TP31). so, no cable detection for MIDI RX. we can detect bus activity, though.07:10
rohwpwrak: there are din-sockets with switch07:12
rohsame for dmx07:12
rohthe only way to detect a connector afaik07:13
roh(on midi and dmx)07:13
cladamw(detect bus activity) means software? or hardware?07:17
wpwrakcladamw: software07:19
wpwrakroh: a while ago i looked and at least digi-key doesn't seem to have DIN with switch. so they may not be terribly common. perhaps in .de, homeland of DIN ...07:20
roh;)07:21
rohwpwrak: http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/html/nf-stecker.html07:40
roh*ducks*07:40
rohTyp PDBS 507:40
wpwrakeven inexpensive07:47
wpwrakof course, no data sheet ...07:48
cladamwfind another part? m... also good. ;-)07:49
larsclekernel_: everything works fine (more or less). It is just that I still explicitly handle the case of combinatorical logic, while in theory the generic model should also cover it.09:04
lekernelkristianpaul: aiming for 10 gbps10:33
wpwrakgrmbl. our pinned rtems predates the merge of milkymist-midi-opt.patch12:48
wpwrakxiangfu: have you tried building a more recent version of rtems lately ?12:49
xiangfuwpwrak, no. not yet.12:49
xiangfuwpwrak, but I can trigger it on build host12:49
wpwraklemme first see what happens :)12:50
xiangfuI also trigger that on build host. that is what build host for :)12:50
xiangfuok. done. it will report in 2 hours12:52
wpwrakby the way, do we really need fix-ftpd-root.patch ? i've been trying to make sense of it, but it really looks like a no-op12:52
xiangfuit already merged in upstream.12:54
wpwrakah, great12:55
xiangfuwpwrak, with out this patch. it do have problem. like it try to setup the ftpd-root by used define after ftpd thread running.12:55
wpwrakfeb 2. perfect12:55
xiangfus/used/user12:56
xiangfubut when the thread running. it will only check is the chroot correct. not check user define ftpd-root. any more.12:56
xiangfuso we better move those code before thread running . (hope you understand my English :)12:57
xiangfukristianpaul, I have make cgminer works fine with FPGA mining core. you can try it now.12:58
wpwraki think i got it :) okay, sounds good then12:58
xiangfukristianpaul, code have commit to openwrt-package12:58
xiangfukristianpaul, also I added two testes under : https://github.com/ngzhang/Icarus/blob/master/miner_software/scripts/payload.py12:58
xiangfukristianpaul, :)12:59
xiangfuleave those message to kristianpaul12:59
xiangfuwpwrak, great.12:59
xiangfuhave to offline today. see you later wpwrak13:03
xiangfuwill full time working on milkymist tomorrow. the vga issue13:03
xiangfuand look into MIDI code from werner :)13:04
wpwrakhmm, things like rtems_shell_init_env are still static :-(13:19
wpwraki thought those changes has been reverted ?13:20
lekernelthey should also add header files13:28
lekernelbut it's crawling in slowland... I sent them a reminder last week...13:29
wpwrakperhaps still aftershocks from not having had an SCM for ... a month ? two ?13:32
lekernelyeah, that doesn't help. though they appear to have resolved their SCM problems now.13:33
wpwrakso, solved the legacy-MIDI regression. phew. nasty surprise, that one. luckily it wasn't FN corrupting its memory or such.13:46
GitHub12[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/04932121246b8e0e859fbdd0c890f4138ed7310915:37
GitHub12[migen/master] bus: simplify and cleanup - Sebastien Bourdeauducq15:37
GitHub193[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/compare/0493212...91e279e15:48
GitHub193[migen/master] bus: fix simple interconnect - Sebastien Bourdeauducq15:48
GitHub193[migen/master] bank/csrgen: use new bus API - Sebastien Bourdeauducq15:48
GitHub191[milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Qpe5nA16:01
GitHub191[milkymist-ng/master] Use new bus API - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:01
GitHub16[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/fa9cf3e466f68389cb9e2cb19c58719ea287dc1b17:15
GitHub16[migen/master] bus: add DFI - Sebastien Bourdeauducq17:15
GitHub38[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/ef7aea0f31304e4f6eab755a40f2779b2e080cc517:29
GitHub38[migen/master] bank: omit device write register when access_bus==READ_ONLY and access_dev==WRITE_ONLY - Sebastien Bourdeauducq17:29
GitHub113[flickernoise] wpwrak pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/Zjsscw18:03
GitHub113[flickernoise/master] Merge branch 'direct-midi' - Werner Almesberger18:03
GitHub113[flickernoise/master] experimental/: removed leftover from development branch - Werner Almesberger18:03
wpwrakthat's kinda embarrassing ;-)22:39
wpwrak /* work around /* and // */  ->  re2c: error: line 111, column 6: ambiguous /* found22:39
larscone does not simply work around /* ;)22:50
wpwrakyeah. 311 regression test cases :)23:04
GitHub193[flickernoise] wpwrak created imaginarium (+7 new commits): http://git.io/OuaJXw23:04
GitHub193[flickernoise/imaginarium] compiler: also disallow tabs and carriage return in file names - Werner Almesberger23:04
GitHub193[flickernoise/imaginarium] compiler: use named regular expressions for file names - Werner Almesberger23:04
GitHub193[flickernoise/imaginarium] compiler: introduce alternative "imagefiles" syntax (WIP) - Werner Almesberger23:04
wpwrakbtw, would somethine like patchpool/experimental/ be a good place for patches that shouldn't be auto-installed ? or is the update mechanism recursive ?23:35
GitHub184[flickernoise] wpwrak pushed 2 new commits to imaginarium: http://git.io/V6M7vQ23:57
GitHub184[flickernoise/imaginarium] images: added image selection with imageN_index - Werner Almesberger23:57
GitHub184[flickernoise/imaginarium] experimental/N.fnp: demonstration of imageN_index, based on pacman.fnp - Werner Almesberger23:57
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