wpwrak | only very roughly. as in overcurrent / not overcurrent | 00:05 |
---|---|---|
wpwrak | you'd have to add current sensors and an ADC if you really need to know with better granularity | 00:06 |
wolfspraul | can or should we add circuitry to make this more precise? | 00:06 |
wpwrak | seems an unusual feature | 00:07 |
wolfspraul | yes. ok then, just came to my mind... | 00:07 |
wpwrak | the playful control freak in me likes it, of course :) | 00:07 |
wolfspraul | nah, I can live without | 00:08 |
wolfspraul | I don't understand the exact use case right now, besides having some fancy current monitor displaying how much each USB socket consumes... | 00:08 |
wpwrak | you could dim the USB leds accordingly ... ;-) | 00:09 |
wolfspraul | indeed - the more power a usb socket draws, the brighter the light :-) | 00:09 |
wpwrak | maybe make them flicker when the current if very high, to suggest power is at the point of failing ;-) | 00:09 |
wolfspraul | but no, I don't need that still | 00:09 |
wolfspraul | and I assume adding this would be quite a complication | 00:10 |
wpwrak | you'd need a bunch of sensor chips with resistors, plus some sort of adc (or mcu) to gather the data | 00:10 |
wolfspraul | I just ran into it because I have a bunch of USB devices and hubs on one machine, and I lost overview over who needs how much power | 00:11 |
wolfspraul | do I need to power the hub? or not? | 00:11 |
wolfspraul | how much does the wifi dongle need? the speaker? the remote keyboard? | 00:11 |
wolfspraul | and so on | 00:11 |
wpwrak | your multimeter is your friend :) | 00:11 |
wolfspraul | sounds like we surely don't want that | 00:11 |
wolfspraul | but I'm basically guessing around, moving usb from hub to host machine, here there | 00:12 |
wolfspraul | guessing who might need how much... | 00:12 |
wolfspraul | for example usb nand storage - probably rather little? | 00:12 |
wpwrak | you could make a little passive pcb with usb a upstream, usb a downstream, interrupted VBUS, and two connectors to put a multimeter in the middle | 00:13 |
wpwrak | then you could measure what exactly is going on | 00:13 |
wolfspraul | ok then the guessing is easier :-) | 00:14 |
wolfspraul | but surely such a small usb current measuring pcb sounds fun | 00:14 |
wolfspraul | I could take a short extension cable and open some of the wires | 00:15 |
wpwrak | yes, that works too. a bit finicky, though | 00:17 |
wpwrak | while you're at it, you probably also want to bring out GND. that way, you can replace the PC with a lab power supply | 00:18 |
wpwrak | or do things like supplying power from the lab power supply but still doing the signaling with the PC | 00:19 |
wolfspraul | no no :-) | 00:19 |
wolfspraul | I know when to stop | 00:19 |
wolfspraul | I was *wondering* about power when I had a little trouble arranging a pile of USB devices | 00:19 |
wolfspraul | but simple trial and error solved the problem already | 00:19 |
wolfspraul | enlightenment doesn't always win | 00:19 |
wolfspraul | btw, a small thing maybe for some, but I had to chew on this for a while | 00:20 |
wpwrak | such a setup was rather useful for certain experiments with gta02 and hxd8 ;-) | 00:20 |
wolfspraul | I feel very confident now talking about Milkymist as a "SoC" project, SoC being the category | 00:20 |
wolfspraul | before I was oscillating between CPU and SoC helplessly | 00:20 |
wolfspraul | CPU is the more generally known term, but it's misleading and the main point of Milkymist doesn't come across | 00:20 |
wolfspraul | so it's like Linux is a kernel, Apache a web server, Milkymist a SoC - that kind of analogy | 00:21 |
wolfspraul | of course sebastien was talking about "leading free SoC" all along, nothing new for him... | 00:21 |
wpwrak | yes, soc is accurate. sounds a tad smallish. but i guess we can't have everything | 00:23 |
wolfspraul | smallish? | 00:23 |
wpwrak | well, most people would associate "SoC" with relatively small devices | 00:24 |
wpwrak | smartphones, pads, this kind of thing. already a laptop has "CPU" and "peripherals" | 00:24 |
wpwrak | of course, that's gradually changing, too | 00:25 |
wolfspraul | no I think it's SoC everywhere now, even Intel is being talked about making "SoCs" now | 00:25 |
wolfspraul | anyway I feel confident about this now, only SoC from me now | 00:26 |
wpwrak | ok. so we're like the big guys then :) | 00:26 |
wolfspraul | (and I just added Milkymist to the "List of SoC suppliers" in Wikipedia :-)) | 00:27 |
wpwrak | phew .. :) | 00:27 |
wolfspraul | we're between Maxim and MIPS | 00:28 |
wpwrak | btw, i think you missed this one in the backlog: | 00:31 |
wpwrak | wolfspraul: the weird little corner of the jtag board does actually have a use: it helps you to align the board with the connectors. otherwise, you would have to "feel" for correct alignment. sort of fumblish. | 00:31 |
wolfspraul | saw it | 00:31 |
wolfspraul | good point :-) | 00:31 |
wpwrak | (just noticed that when re-seating the jtag board i had plucked out to look at the memory card connector when you asked about ubb) | 00:32 |
GitHub88 | [flickernoise] wpwrak pushed 1 new commit to direct-midi: http://git.io/Mby8Gw | 00:33 |
GitHub88 | [flickernoise/direct-midi] MIDI documentation (still WIP, on-going) - Werner Almesberger | 00:33 |
wpwrak | writing documentation helps to understand those use cases ;-) | 00:34 |
kristianpaul | xiangfu: hello | 01:42 |
kristianpaul | (replying to yday Hi ;-)) | 01:42 |
xiangfu | kristianpaul, Hi. good morning | 01:46 |
kristianpaul | hey :) | 01:46 |
xiangfu | want let you know I finish a simple payload.py for your m1 using mining core | 01:48 |
xiangfu | : https://github.com/ngzhang/Icarus/blob/master/miner_software/scripts/payload.py | 01:48 |
kristianpaul | oh great | 01:48 |
xiangfu | kristianpaul, also: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Icarus#Verify_FPGA_core | 01:48 |
xiangfu | using linux command. :) | 01:49 |
kristianpaul | let me try that last one | 01:49 |
xiangfu | if it not working. try payload.py. I tried the linux commands. somtimes it not working. don't know why. but payload.py always working. | 01:50 |
kristianpaul | no work.. trying the python script.. | 01:50 |
xiangfu | it should reply in 1 second | 01:53 |
kristianpaul | erghh no, damn i'll re-sinthesize this and if i can re-enforce timings.. | 01:53 |
Action: kristianpaul my fault | 01:53 | |
kristianpaul | oh wait, xiangfu https://gist.github.com/1822454 | 01:58 |
kristianpaul | but i cant reproduce... | 01:58 |
qi-bot | The Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120214-0111/ | 01:59 |
xiangfu | yes. you got correct result. | 01:59 |
kristianpaul | but just onces... | 01:59 |
xiangfu | you mean only work once? | 01:59 |
kristianpaul | damn | 01:59 |
kristianpaul | yeap.. | 01:59 |
kristianpaul | oh GOD | 01:59 |
kristianpaul | it took AGES | 01:59 |
kristianpaul | wait a second i can reproduce it again now with time ;) | 02:00 |
kristianpaul | damn i tought was timing on my side but this seems to be slow fpgaminer on my side ;) | 02:00 |
kristianpaul | ok may be i can push to a repo now ;) | 02:00 |
kristianpaul | just in case xiangfu what other hash i can try :) ? | 02:01 |
kristianpaul | hmm now i took longer.. | 02:04 |
kristianpaul | should i reset the fpga... | 02:04 |
kristianpaul | xiangfu: https://gist.github.com/1822498 | 02:08 |
kristianpaul | damn dont know what it works and dont ... | 02:16 |
Action: kristianpaul dont trust too much the uart serializer.. | 02:16 | |
kristianpaul | there is no reset logic.. | 02:17 |
kristianpaul | damn i needs a mcu.. | 02:18 |
kristianpaul | may be mico8 :) | 02:19 |
xiangfu | any test needs time to find out:) | 02:20 |
xiangfu | 38.164s | 02:20 |
kristianpaul | lol ;) | 02:24 |
kristianpaul | is too slow.. | 02:24 |
kristianpaul | oh well. | 02:24 |
xiangfu | as least it working :) | 02:27 |
wpwrak | what dollar equivalent does it produce in those 38 seconds ? | 02:40 |
Action: kristianpaul will not answer that | 02:41 | |
xiangfu | :D | 02:41 |
xiangfu | wpwrak, oh. about the projector. I make is wrong. it's not 4mX5m. it about 2.6Mx3M. my home wall is not that big. sorry | 02:42 |
wpwrak | still pretty large. and the image looks good ? bright and with contrast ? | 02:42 |
xiangfu | wpwrak, I can just say it fine. have to with 100% dark. | 02:43 |
wpwrak | does it let you adjust the angle ? or do you have to move the projector to change the size ? | 02:44 |
xiangfu | have to move the projector to changed the size. | 02:48 |
xiangfu | no adjust on angle. | 02:48 |
wpwrak | mmh, inconvenient | 02:49 |
cladamwa | (audio lineout plugin detection) added R233 100K @ J2.3; http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/adam/m1/tmp/m1r4/Audio_20120208.pdf | 02:56 |
cladamwa | sorry, wrong link above; should be http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/adam/m1/tmp/m1r4/Audio_20120214.pdf | 02:57 |
cladamwa | wpwrak, i added R233 100K for detecting LINEout plug-in detection. you could check and view, later we ask joreg. ;-) | 02:58 |
cladamwa | for audio line-in, current no idea. still thinking... ;-D | 02:59 |
wpwrak | hmm, might work | 03:12 |
wpwrak | don't forget to tell joerg there are no clamping diodes in the fpga :) | 03:12 |
wpwrak | actually, there are, towards gnd. but it should be disconnected then anyway. yeah, might work | 03:13 |
wpwrak | not sure if lineout_det needs tvs, though | 03:14 |
cladamwa | joerg suggested me that we can also add tvs on lineout_det in #qi-hardware. let me check. ;-) | 03:21 |
wpwrak | heh "_ | 03:23 |
cladamwa | http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/qi-hardware_2012-02-08.log.html#t09:32 | 03:24 |
wpwrak | not sure if it's that what he meant | 03:25 |
cladamwa | so with the same method, I'm thinking using same theory for audio line-in. | 03:25 |
cladamwa | yeah...but it's okay. we can draw idea fristly then ask joerg for help then, how do you think? ;-) | 03:26 |
wpwrak | (line in) there goes the nice ground :) | 03:26 |
wpwrak | yup. leave it to him to tear those ideas apart :) | 03:26 |
cladamwa | wpwrak, yes, although current there goes to ground, but I'll also let there to be reached liek 'low' sc level 'normally' (i.e. not plugg-in yet). | 03:28 |
cladamwa | wpwrak, yes, so i'll edit audio sche page again then for help . ;-) | 03:28 |
kristianpaul | xiangfu: n8, thanks for the script now i have a basis to debug my niner :) | 03:30 |
cladamwa | wpwrak, btw, i did really apply yet joerg's idea on those DC blocking 2 pins header for un-used audio input path, how do you think this? | 03:31 |
xiangfu | kristianpaul, n8 | 03:33 |
wpwrak | mmh, not sure which of the many audio changes you mean | 03:34 |
cladamwa | wpwrak, since i don't know if we need to use more route space for TP47~TP51( which were I added ), but original idea from you was to leave solder-pad only. | 03:35 |
wpwrak | ah, MIC2 and friends | 03:37 |
cladamwa | yes, http://lists.milkymist.org/pipermail/devel-milkymist.org/2012-January/002583.html | 03:38 |
wpwrak | i'd just put the caps close to the chip and NC them. no antenna = no RF trouble, right ? :) | 03:39 |
cladamwa | you wanted to keep those un-used footprint for DC blocking if one can use them for playing them. but joreg suggested put them in ground when no use. | 03:39 |
cladamwa | yes, your idea thoughts not bad and reasonable, but from Joreg's suggestions that he wanted us to reduce audio input noise as possible, so he said that we may use 2 pins headers to short to ground those un-used caps. | 03:41 |
wpwrak | i think that may be overkill | 03:42 |
wpwrak | of the traces between chip and the NC caps are short, not much can crawl in anyway | 03:42 |
cladamwa | from my simple idea is quite same like you and even just put footprint only and NO test points, and DNP them. | 03:43 |
wpwrak | and i'd NC the caps :) | 03:43 |
wpwrak | yup | 03:43 |
wpwrak | NC == DNP :) | 03:43 |
cladamwa | okay, so let's not add Test points and DNP them. done? | 03:43 |
wpwrak | sounds great to me :) | 03:44 |
cladamwa | okay, done. ;-) then I edit the plugg-in and detection idea and ask in list for joerg again. ;-) | 03:44 |
cladamwa | btw, to have detection idea, can you see your rc2 sch now? | 03:45 |
wpwrak | rc2 ? | 03:46 |
cladamwa | yes | 03:46 |
cladamwa | although we replaced R23/R24 (6.8K ohm) with varistor V27/V28 now, | 03:46 |
cladamwa | correct? | 03:47 |
wpwrak | M1rc2 ? where are the schematics of that ? and what is there about detection ? and where ? | 03:47 |
cladamwa | you don't have rc2 sch? checking... | 03:47 |
cladamwa | http://www.milkymist.org/mmone/old/rc2_schematics.pdf | 03:49 |
cladamwa | audio sch in rc2 is almost quite the same as rc3, but I'm trying to describe my idea on line-in detection to you now. ;-) | 03:50 |
wpwrak | thanks | 03:50 |
cladamwa | see page 1 for audio | 03:50 |
cladamwa | there's R23/R24, now M1R4 we replaced them as V27/V28, so.... | 03:51 |
cladamwa | so my plans for line-in solutions: | 03:51 |
wpwrak | yup. looks like rc3 :) | 03:52 |
cladamwa | 1. use 100K ohm to pull up on DC3.3V then connects to J1.3pin. | 03:52 |
cladamwa | yes | 03:52 |
cladamwa | 2. J1. 5 goes to AUDIO_GND | 03:53 |
wpwrak | ah, 50% grounded:) | 03:53 |
cladamwa | 3. place back those R23/R24 6.8K ohm back like in rc2 but still keep V27/V28 | 03:54 |
wpwrak | i knew that would come :) | 03:54 |
cladamwa | 4. connect J1.3 to fpga un-used pin | 03:55 |
wpwrak | but yes, seems to be the only choice. unless the codec itself contains anything that can help | 03:55 |
cladamwa | 5. so Normal = Low(0.395V), Plug-in = high(3.3V) | 03:55 |
cladamwa | yeah | 03:55 |
cladamwa | how do you think this method? | 03:56 |
wpwrak | sounds reasonable | 03:56 |
cladamwa | i need to check fpga's Vin low threathhood value. | 03:56 |
cladamwa | now checking... | 03:57 |
qi-bot | The Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120214-0309/ | 03:57 |
cladamwa | wpwrak, page 10 of http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds162.pdf | 04:01 |
wpwrak | yeah, easy :) | 04:03 |
cladamwa | so sound a 0.395V(low) is less than VIL @LVTTL and LVCMOS33. ;-) | 04:05 |
cladamwa | so should be okay, right? | 04:05 |
cladamwa | the column on VIL (V, max) | 04:06 |
wpwrak | yup | 04:06 |
cladamwa | wait, why did you say 50% grounded ? is it problem? | 04:07 |
cladamwa | you meant one of (J1.5 and J1.3) to audio ground @ 50 %, is not okay? | 04:08 |
wpwrak | you're undoing part of the paranoia grounding you added on joerg's advice. but i don't know if it matters | 04:08 |
wpwrak | probably not | 04:08 |
wpwrak | we're not exactly doing hi-fi recordomg amyway | 04:09 |
cladamwa | oah..yes. need to undo... | 04:09 |
cladamwa | yeah..so let me edit those idea above in audio sch page then ask for detection in list again. hehe...okay? | 04:10 |
cladamwa | yeah...we 're not doing hi-fi device. should be okay? or don't know? | 04:11 |
wpwrak | our main use of audio in is currently called "bass", "mid", or "treb". and it's off the documented range by some 15 dB, maybe more. so ... :) | 04:15 |
cladamwa | aha...i didn't see s/w setting too much, yeah, if like only three catagories, phew~ yes, overkill ... :) | 04:17 |
cladamwa | okay...later I'll send idea in list again. hope joreg don't think we're crazy though. ;-) | 04:18 |
wpwrak | (3 bands) that shouldn't stop us from doing better, of course. but that's where we're at for now :) | 04:19 |
cladamwa | ;-D | 04:20 |
lekernel | sometimes there are happy surprises with ISE... the 13.4 version now correctly infers that wide block RAM with byte-level WE's | 10:23 |
whitequark | they did it accidentally ;) | 10:29 |
Fallenou | ahah | 10:32 |
kristianpaul | ok lets move to 13.4 then.. | 10:46 |
kristianpaul | wtf whty i'm getting arsicgt console instead of webpack ! | 10:51 |
kristianpaul | arcsight* | 10:51 |
kristianpaul | here we go again... *sigh* | 10:52 |
kristianpaul | i give for now, even with other webwrosers it dint work.. | 10:54 |
GitHub90 | [migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/0c214b484ec4b342e6338fc6b66d655b3c06f06a | 12:18 |
GitHub90 | [migen/master] Use double quotes for all strings - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 12:18 |
GitHub103 | [milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/1g9JBg | 12:20 |
GitHub103 | [milkymist-ng/master] Use double quotes for all strings - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 12:20 |
GitHub148 | [migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/46b1f74e98dcdf179c74845faafda5fca7bee572 | 13:06 |
GitHub148 | [migen/master] bus/asmibus/hub: forward data and tag_call - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 13:06 |
GitHub22 | [flickernoise] wpwrak pushed 7 new commits to direct-midi: http://git.io/8B-erw | 14:20 |
GitHub22 | [flickernoise/direct-midi] stimuli: refuse to bind the same control twice - Werner Almesberger | 14:20 |
GitHub22 | [flickernoise/direct-midi] compiler: set SF_ASSIGNED for control variables to prevent -Wundefined warning - Werner Almesberger | 14:20 |
GitHub22 | [flickernoise/direct-midi] compiler: allow multiple stimuli to set the same variable - Werner Almesberger | 14:20 |
GitHub71 | [milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/JVgA3w | 14:48 |
GitHub71 | [milkymist-ng/master] README - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 14:48 |
wpwrak | whoa. done ? :) | 14:54 |
GitHub189 | [milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/WMOw_w | 14:58 |
GitHub189 | [milkymist-ng/master] s6ddrphy: prepare quilt - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 14:58 |
lekernel | no, not yet | 14:59 |
lekernel | but I have a very precise idea of what needs to be done. now it's just coding and debugging ... | 14:59 |
lekernel | phew, active low resets... I never got it | 15:02 |
Fallenou | lekernel: are store words working correctly for you using migen & milkymist-ng ? | 15:02 |
Fallenou | on sram | 15:03 |
lekernel | it's something competely useless in a FPGA and, in ASICs, optimizing the reset polarity should be done by the tools, not the coder | 15:03 |
lekernel | Fallenou: yes | 15:03 |
Fallenou | ok | 15:03 |
lekernel | mirko: you're at in-berlin? | 15:48 |
mirko | lekernel: kinda.. hosting stuff there.. | 15:55 |
GitHub76 | [flickernoise] wpwrak pushed 1 new commit to direct-midi: http://git.io/s9hqng | 18:51 |
GitHub76 | [flickernoise/direct-midi] More work on the MIDI documentation - Werner Almesberger | 18:51 |
larsc_ | hm, what's the result of expressions like 'assign a = ~a' and more interestingly 'assign a = b | ~a' | 22:38 |
wpwrak | local overheating ? | 23:01 |
larsc_ | my generic flow control logic model resolves to 'ack_o = ack_i & ~stb_o; stb_o = stb_i & ack_o;' for combinatorial actors | 23:15 |
larsc_ | this could either mean my model is still to generic, it is wrong, or there are some special rules on how to handle self contradicting logic | 23:25 |
larsc_ | and if you build the truth tables it show that for the cases where the logic is coherent it is equivalent to ack_o = ack_i;stb_o = stb_i | 23:29 |
wpwrak | hmm :) | 23:33 |
wpwrak | i'm actually a bit surprised that you can get away with assign a = f(b); assign b = f(a); i.e., a cyclic dependency | 23:34 |
larsc_ | i'd expect it to settle to a fixed point. if it has one | 23:36 |
lekernel | yeah, combinatorial loops can be messy | 23:43 |
lekernel | you can actually build sequential systems with them :) | 23:43 |
wpwrak | did you check the logs for suspicious warnings ? like "confusing logic set to 0" or such ? i noticed that xst rather likes to do such things | 23:43 |
lekernel | there's even a generic method to build any (asynchronous) FSMs using combinatorial logic only | 23:44 |
lekernel | (which I forgot, because it's of little use in FPGAs) | 23:45 |
lekernel | larsc_: I think you can resolve the problems without combinatorial loops... afaik all you need is a way to track partial acks when you have several outputs | 23:47 |
lekernel | which you can do with normal registers | 23:47 |
lekernel | Fallenou: X's may or may not be normal | 23:52 |
--- Wed Feb 15 2012 | 00:00 |
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