| cladamw | wpwrak, (usb) for now, will ext. = max(4, 1) or min. = max(0, 1)? seems that haven't determined yet. | 02:00 |
|---|---|---|
| wpwrak | i'd say ext = 4, int = 2. keep it simple :) | 02:01 |
| wpwrak | int = 1 would be a highly unusual configuration anyway | 02:02 |
| cladamw | mmm...current existing usb extendable cable seems not easy to find a one. | 02:03 |
| wpwrak | virtually all the internal USB port of PCs are of that kind. they use 100 mil headers in a 2x5-1 configuration | 02:05 |
| cladamw | also if 5 for rest, the footprints for two right-angle 1*2 parts plus another 1*1 usb connector are also not good for arrangement. | 02:05 |
| wpwrak | 2x5-1 = a 2x5 pattern but with one pin cut | 02:05 |
| wpwrak | wolfgang seems to know some magic cables for internal use. i don't know what they are. what i know are the 2x5-1 connectors used in pcs for the last 10 years or so :) | 02:07 |
| cladamw | i would still leave this whole 6 ports to let house generating placements to see if they are okay at some time, or we decide it at that time, how do you think? | 02:07 |
| wpwrak | i think it's okay if they choose the placement of the connector for the internal ports | 02:08 |
| cladamw | okay...later i asked what magic cables (int.) are. ;-) | 02:08 |
| wpwrak | remember, the internal ports would be a 100 mil header, not a USB A connector | 02:08 |
| wpwrak | yeah :) | 02:08 |
| wpwrak | the placement would depend a bit on what cables wolfgang can find | 02:09 |
| cladamw | yeah... a one 2*5 pins header ( precisely said that it's a housing header in pitch 2.54mm) ;-) | 02:09 |
| wpwrak | if he can find a nice cable, the there should be some distance between the header and the location of the usb device | 02:09 |
| wpwrak | if he can't, and we have to use an adapter board, then they should be close | 02:10 |
| wpwrak | (housing) you mean shrouded ? | 02:10 |
| cladamw | yes | 02:10 |
| wpwrak | that's not required | 02:11 |
| cladamw | we can see if later what real cable we select. of course we want 2.54mm for 2*5 | 02:11 |
| Action: kristianpaul interested on migen but will try later | 02:11 | |
| wpwrak | if we connect some 4x1 plus, we bypass any keying anyway | 02:11 |
| cladamw | sure | 02:12 |
| wpwrak | if we connect a pc-type cable, it should be 2x5-1 | 02:12 |
| kristianpaul | dont read all log, but please dont make M1 users to convert their videos to "specialiced" formats.. | 02:12 |
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: we probably will :) | 02:12 |
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: at leat in layman's terms | 02:13 |
| cladamw | kristianpaul, ;-) | 02:13 |
| wpwrak | layman: just drop an .avi, .wmv, .mp3. or .mkv there, and it'll work | 02:13 |
| wpwrak | us: well, .mpg at 160x80 | 02:14 |
| kristianpaul | wow nocarrier twitvid is AWESOME | 02:14 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak: srop and work sounds nice to me :) | 02:14 |
| wpwrak | srop ? | 02:14 |
| kristianpaul | s/srop/drop | 02:14 |
| wpwrak | ah yes :) | 02:15 |
| wpwrak | but it probably won't work that way :) | 02:15 |
| kristianpaul | i know :) | 02:15 |
| wpwrak | but that's an integration issue | 02:15 |
| kristianpaul | wow nocarrier video is _awesome_, i wached twice i dint get bored :) | 02:17 |
| GitHub192 | [scripts] xiangfu pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/6e3RwA | 04:05 |
| GitHub192 | [scripts/master] reflash_m1.sh cleanup help message - Xiangfu Liu | 04:05 |
| qi-bot | The Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120131-0507/ | 05:56 |
| lekernel_ | larsc: at the moment the expressions are dumbly translated into verilog, and it's verilog which takes care of expressions widths/signedness | 08:00 |
| lekernel_ | larsc: there is a way, but you need to reimplement Verilog's rules | 08:01 |
| lekernel_ | wpwrak: FFMPEG can read all sorts of formats... I'm not worried | 09:02 |
| wpwrak | lekernel_: we'll have to be careful to remove the encumbered ones, though | 10:26 |
| wpwrak | so that would mean MPEG2, MPEG4, H.264, Quicktime at least >= 2, etc. | 10:34 |
| wpwrak | for the rationale, see also http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Patent_Policy_Public_Face | 10:37 |
| lekernel_ | aren't those the most popular ones? | 10:41 |
| Fallenou | sure | 10:43 |
| Fallenou | but if you support MPEG-2 you have to pay something AFAIK | 10:43 |
| lekernel_ | no, you don't have to :) | 10:44 |
| wpwrak | MPEG-LA claims you have to. see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpeg2#Patent_holders | 10:46 |
| wpwrak | most of the patents should expire around 2014, though | 10:47 |
| wpwrak | (and some earlier) | 10:47 |
| lekernel_ | they would claim anything that helps them make money | 10:47 |
| wpwrak | and yes, _of_course_ the encumbered formats are the popular ones :) | 10:47 |
| lekernel_ | great. so let's just include them, we're too small for them to care. | 10:48 |
| lekernel_ | they would have to do things like buy a M1, analyze the software, .... | 10:49 |
| cladamw | (upward | 10:49 |
| cladamw | emission of bottom-mounted side-facing LEDs) FR4 allows probably | 10:49 |
| cladamw | some light to pass at a steeper angle, but how translucent it will, i don't know. at least side-facing led is good idea. | 10:49 |
| lekernel_ | just don't mention anything about the supported formats | 10:49 |
| wpwrak | lekernel_: no, don't do that. remember openmoko ? we got bitten, too. and yes, they did make the effort. | 10:50 |
| lekernel_ | http://www.google.com/trends/?q=openmoko,milkymist | 10:50 |
| wpwrak | lekernel_: FLAC should be safe. maybe MPEG1, too | 10:50 |
| wpwrak | it's not about size ... | 10:50 |
| Fallenou | Well I heard recently from a lawyer that MPEG-2 makes you pay | 10:52 |
| Fallenou | and pay even more than MPEG-4 | 10:52 |
| Fallenou | even if it's not logical | 10:52 |
| Fallenou | it's like $0.50 per unit | 10:53 |
| Fallenou | or $0.20 | 10:53 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, APA1606SURCK is currently proposed for leds? ;-) | 10:53 |
| Fallenou | oh no it's $2.00 for MPEG-2 since january 2010 | 10:54 |
| Fallenou | hell it's expensive | 10:54 |
| wpwrak | cladamw: yeah, nice and bright. do you like them ? :) | 10:54 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, yeah pretty cool. seems that we had have side-facing led in stock, need to find it out. it's used in avt2. | 10:55 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, also red color then. well...i need to check. | 10:56 |
| cladamw | (U5 p/n content) just set visibled. | 10:58 |
| Fallenou | MPEG-4 : 0 to 50 000 decoders sold per year => 0 royalties | 11:00 |
| Fallenou | after that it's $0.25 per decoder | 11:00 |
| lekernel_ | Fallenou: but to properly get into the "0 royalties" category, I guess you have to sign something not so nice, right? | 11:01 |
| Fallenou | http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/M4V/Documents/m4vweb.pdf | 11:01 |
| Fallenou | I don't know if the license agreement (la) is like global | 11:02 |
| Fallenou | or if you have to actually sign it | 11:02 |
| wpwrak | mpeg4 is a minefield because there's not just one place you have to get licenses from: http://www.m4if.org/patents/ | 11:02 |
| wpwrak | lekernel_: presumably, yes | 11:03 |
| Fallenou | hum ok, i'm not an expert anyway about this kind of stuff | 11:04 |
| Fallenou | sounds scary | 11:04 |
| wpwrak | and since M1 is a product targeted at professional use, it may not even fall into the royalty-free category | 11:05 |
| lekernel_ | seems FFMPEG can already read PNG/JPG | 11:05 |
| lekernel_ | http://ffmpeg.org/general.html | 11:05 |
| lekernel_ | http://ffmpeg.org/general.html#Image-Formats | 11:05 |
| wpwrak | Fallenou: it's scary and unjust | 11:05 |
| lekernel_ | so I guess we can simply base all the image/video reading stuff on FFMPEG | 11:08 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, http://www.kingbright.com/manager/upload/pdf/KPA-3210SURCK(Ver1189146070.9) | 11:12 |
| wpwrak | as long as it's not too hard to keep the ugly bits out, why not | 11:13 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, it's 3.2*1.0mm, yours APA1606SURCK is 1.6*0.6mm, | 11:13 |
| lekernel | wpwrak: what about distributing a package consisting of all the FN object files, a compiler/linker, and some instructions to build and link FFMPEG? | 11:14 |
| wpwrak | cladamw: yeah. the one you have is HUGE :) | 11:15 |
| lekernel | also the web updater should have an option to choose where to download stuff from | 11:15 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, ;-) but from your led demo, you used 0603 package. the APA one is smaller. | 11:16 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, yeah...so forget about my finding. ;-) | 11:17 |
| wpwrak | lekernel: as long as it's not the 3rd bullet of http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Patent_Policy_Public_Face#Quick_summary | 11:17 |
| wpwrak | or, for that matter bullet 2 | 11:18 |
| wpwrak | the laws are not friendly, and neither is the way the courts rule. most of what's on that page is based on court rulings | 11:19 |
| wpwrak | also, the deeper you enter the grey zone, the more likely it is that you could invite unwanted attention. even a lawsuit you could win can kill you financially. | 11:20 |
| wpwrak | cladamw: the APA... shuold be 0605, no ? checking ... | 11:21 |
| wpwrak | yes, 0605 | 11:22 |
| wpwrak | so it's a little bit larger than the 0603 is used | 11:22 |
| wpwrak | s/is used/i used/ | 11:24 |
| wpwrak | wolfspraul: your opinion on using ffmpeg ? | 11:25 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, yes, since the distance between board edge and switches and ir is small, so yes, stick on this APA... ;-) | 11:26 |
| lekernel | haha http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1690774&cid=32612786 | 15:38 |
| Fallenou | lekernel: do you really need python 3.2 for migen ? | 20:21 |
| Fallenou | I have python 3.1 on debian squeeze :x | 20:21 |
| lekernel | it seems larsc is using 3.1 successfully | 20:24 |
| Fallenou | ok nice ! | 20:24 |
| Fallenou | will try to kick out uart and norflash for simulation | 20:25 |
| Fallenou | and just keep lm32/wishbone/sram | 20:25 |
| larsc | Fallenou: python 3.1 on squeeze works, but you have to install some dependencies manually, since most of the python libraries that come with squeeze aren't 3.x compatible | 20:31 |
| Fallenou | it worked without any special dependency here | 20:33 |
| larsc | if you want to use migen.flow you need networkx | 20:33 |
| Fallenou | lekernel: if there is only one slave, migen generates things like sel[0] which xst refuses to synthetise | 20:46 |
| Fallenou | because it's notan array | 20:46 |
| Action: Fallenou corrected by hand | 20:46 | |
| Fallenou | works great anyway | 20:47 |
| lekernel | hm, ok | 20:49 |
| lekernel | grmbl, verilog is annoying | 20:49 |
| lekernel | btw if you want to load code in the memory there's the "init=" parameter | 20:50 |
| lekernel | and I don't think you should need the interconnect component... the i-bus should have the instruction memory only, and the d-bus, something to display accesses | 20:51 |
| lekernel | I can make you a point-to-point bus interconnect component for those cases. | 20:52 |
| --- Wed Feb 1 2012 | 00:00 | |
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