#milkymist IRC log for Saturday, 2012-01-07

wolfspraulok, playing the unsuspecting m1 user...00:01
wolfspraulI got a free mouse with a notebook bag I bought over the holidays, tried it on m1, but the mouse moves so fast vertically and very slow horizontally00:01
wolfspraul(still on 07-13)00:01
wolfspraulI just bought a new rubber keyboard in Media Markt, works in my notebook, doesn't work on m100:02
wolfspraulnow... onto the update! :-)00:02
wpwrakif you upgrade from july, mice will regress a little and keyboards will get a little better00:04
wolfspraullet's see :-)00:05
wolfspraulI got 2 new devices (normally I keep a strict set of 'works with m1')00:05
wolfspraulplugging both in - both don't work00:05
wolfspraulit can't get worse :-)00:05
wpwrakexcellent :)00:06
wolfspraulwow, I just notice the reflash_m1.sh script stands at 389 lines!00:06
wolfspraulbuilt urjtag from source (on fedora 16), worked with a few hickups00:23
wolfspraulrunning reflash_m1.sh --release now, suspense...00:23
wolfspraulI see some 404 not found errors scrolling by...00:24
wolfspraulreflash_m1.sh says 'your m1 was successfully reflashed' even when there are tons of errors before00:26
wolfspraulthe xc6slx45 was detected, but then "illegal state: Bus missing"00:27
wolfsprauland bus driver missing00:27
wolfspraulmaybe something simple in my urjtag config? checking...00:27
wpwrakmaybe try m1nor ? http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/m1/tools/m1nor00:28
wpwrakof course, i'm dodging the difficult part, the selection and downloading of the correct images :)00:30
wpwrakbut once you've solved that, it's all nice and modular00:30
wolfspraulwill try, but one sec00:30
wolfspraulstill at urjtag00:30
wolfspraulby default all buses are enabled in the config00:30
wpwrakwhatever that means :)00:31
wolfspraulonto m1nor00:31
wpwrakthe "bus missing" probably means that you don't have fjmem.bit00:32
wolfspraulI don't think so, but ok00:32
wolfspraullooking at m1nor it's running the same jtag commands, so I doubt this will work00:33
wolfspraulanyway, trying00:33
wpwrakm1nor will complain if it can't find fjmem,.bit locally00:33
wpwrakif you have fjmem.bit but it's not valid, then strange things will happen :)00:33
wpwrakusage: m1nor file ...00:33
wpwrakyou have to provide all the files you wish to flash00:34
wolfspraulgee, yeah :-)00:34
wpwrakyou can do it one file at a time or several files at a time00:34
wolfspraulso the first line would be: m1nor standby.fpg 0x0000 ?00:35
wpwraknope. just standby.fpg00:35
wpwrakit knows where to put things00:35
wpwrakthat is, as long as you use "normal" file names00:35
wolfspraulsame errors (as expected)00:35
wolfspraulillega state, bus missing, bus driver missing00:35
wpwrakah, that's bad then00:36
wolfspraulsomething in urjtag00:36
wpwrakanything before that ?00:36
wolfspraulslx45 is detected00:36
wolfspraulI think it must be some simple problem in urjtag or my system environment00:37
wpwrakfunny. yes, looks as if urjtag is missing something00:38
wolfspraulwhich "bus driver" do we need for our jtag-serial pod?00:38
wpwrakhmm, if i knew ... don't have notes on how i got urtag :(00:38
wpwrakoh wait, i do00:39
wpwrakbased on this: http://milkymist.org/wiki/index.php?title=Flashing_the_Milkymist_One00:40
wpwrakthis was my build & install process: http://pastebin.com/CaBgsLQb00:41
wolfspraulyeah. but it didn't work for me :-)00:42
wolfspraulah yes, busname is in the command, "fjmem" is the bus00:43
wpwrakdoes  help initbus  mention fjmem ?00:45
wpwrakas in "fjmem              FPGA JTAG memory bus driver via USER register, [...]"00:46
wpwrakordering is only almost alphabetical. it would be too easy otherwise :)00:47
wolfsprauloh well00:51
wolfspraulwhen you are in the jtag console (just run 'jtag'), then 'cable milkymist', then 'detect' - what output do you see from the 'detect' command?00:51
wolfspraulsomehow when I do it interactively it just returns without anything00:51
wolfsprauland subsequent commands say 'run detect first'00:52
wolfspraulit works in the scripts, argh00:52
wolfspraulgood thing that I don't have to fix C compiler bugs before compiling urjtag before finding fjmem before reflashing before booting00:52
wpwrakthis is what i get: http://pastebin.com/ZJh1WeaT00:53
wpwrakgee. it's a pity that c compiler bugs are so rare these days00:53
wolfspraulno idea why I don't get that in interactive mode00:54
wpwrakin general, i'd consider urjtag being a bit les chatty a good thing. but in your case ...00:54
wolfspraulwhen I run m1nor or reflash_m1.sh, I see the same output. but when I run it interactively, detect returns without anything :-)00:54
wolfspraulgo figure00:54
wpwrakfwiw, the version i have is commit d00fc335f37dcd4a3254850a41a48aa5740e9cf100:56
wpwrak(Tue Aug 30 02:59:06 2011 +0000)00:56
wpwrak(version of urjtag)00:56
wpwrakso if you want to see if the past really was better than the present, ... ;)00:57
wolfspraulin the debug log I see "FJMEM data register length: 0", wondering whether that's normal00:59
wpwrakwhere'st hat debug log ?01:00
wolfspraulfound a "debug all" in reflash_m1.sh01:00
wolfspraulit's probably a urjtag command01:00
wolfspraulah yes, reglen 0 does not look normal01:01
wolfspraulof course that case has no error message in the sources01:01
wolfspraulif (fjmem_reg_len <= 0) return NULL;01:01
wolfspraulwithout urj_error_set() as all the other return NULL cases01:02
wpwrakzero-length registers ... hmm yes, can exist just for the side effect. but in this case ...01:02
wpwrakdid you try using the d00fc335f37dcd4a3254850a41a48aa5740e9cf1 version ?01:03
wolfspraulnot yet. 2am, I'm super sleepy and have ca. 5 hours left to sleep. that has priority now :-)01:07
wolfspraulI will try with that commit tomorrow01:07
wolfspraulI have my old Debian machine around, one sec01:07
wolfspraulthat had a working jtag before :-)01:07
wpwraka history of success may help ;-)01:08
wpwrak(5 h left to sleep) on a friday night ? weekends are for catching up on all the sleep you missed during the week, no ? :)01:08
wolfspraulso reflash_m1.sh definitely gives me 404 for bios-rescue.raw, splash-rescue.raw and splash.raw01:12
wolfsprauland the subsequent flashing fails of cours01:12
wolfspraulother than that flashing works on my Debian system, phew01:12
wolfspraulat least that01:12
wpwraksmall dents :)01:13
wolfspraulguess those 3 files are missing in http://www.milkymist.org/updates/2011-11-29/01:13
wolfspraul"lockflash: unknown command"01:13
wolfspraul"verify skipped"01:13
wpwrakwell, you don;t need it urgently01:13
wolfspraullet's reboot!01:13
wpwrakverify skipped is normal01:14
wolfspraulyes, just for completeness01:14
wolfspraulit may be normal but it may distract the unsuspecting newbie01:14
wolfspraulunless we tell everybody 'don't worry about a lot of worrisome messages scrolling by' :-)01:14
wolfspraulthat's all normal01:14
kristianpaulfor the F16 user please confirm this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=73229101:15
kristianpaulalso will be helpfull to build this urjtag https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=59831501:15
kristianpaulto support FEL ;)01:15
wpwrakone problem is that urjtag doesn't return all errors. so neither reflash.sh nor m1nor can actually catch problems happening inside urjtag (jtag comand)01:15
kristianpaulafai my laptop bios got crazy with F16 and installed the damn xubuntu alpha :/01:15
wolfspraulnow my m1 suffers from d2/d3 dimly lit :-)01:15
wolfspraulneed to replug dc a few times...01:16
wolfspraulall normal01:16
kristianpaulthats souns like  my rc2 ;)01:16
Action: kristianpaul loves fedora bugzilla01:16
wpwrakwolfspraul: what revision is it ? rc3 ?01:16
wolfspraulI found when I wiggle the power cable a little when inserting, I can make the dimly lit go away01:16
kristianpauli knew it !01:17
wpwrakah. before my time :)01:17
wpwrakrc3 never does "dimly lit" unless the NOR got corrupted01:18
wolfspraulyes! it renders!01:18
wolfspraulfirst the old mouse01:18
wpwrakdrum roll ...01:18
wpwrakwhee ! no regression :)01:19
wolfspraulnew mouse: same as before, unusable01:19
wolfspraulvertical is crazy fast, horizontal very slow01:19
wolfspraulplugged into my notebook - all fine01:20
wpwraksome mice are odd. not sure yet why. i have one that's slow on x and y. need to find out how linux gets it right.01:20
wolfspraulok, will keep the old one and carry the new one around. probably dump with xiangfu who is collecting all the gear that doesn't work ;-)01:20
wolfspraulnext, the new keyboard01:21
wpwrakhow about the keyboard ?01:21
wpwrakyeah :)01:21
wpwrakfrom the silence, it probably detonated and left wolfspraul searching for his laptop in a smoke-filled room01:23
wolfspraulno no01:24
wolfspraulit worked01:24
wolfspraulbut of course I ran into another problem01:24
wolfspraulafter switching the gui from 1024x768 to 640x480, my projector couldn't pickup the signal right anymore01:24
wpwrakheh :)01:24
wolfspraulso the display was shifted (rolling around on top)01:24
wpwraksounds interesting :)01:24
wolfspraulturning off the projector didn't help, strange01:24
wolfspraulI am rebooting everything now01:25
wpwrakdid that keyboard work before ?01:25
wolfspraulno it did not!01:26
wpwrakif you have a projector that fails to work, that may be VERY useful. that would be the first truly reproducible failyre.01:26
wolfspraulafter rebooting everything from total power down, the m1 was in rendering mode01:26
wpwrakexcellent. progress has been achieved ! :)01:26
wolfsprauland my projector first picked up the wrong vertical shift again!01:26
wolfspraulbut after a few seconds, it's back to normal01:26
wolfspraulnow GUI...01:26
wolfspraulyeah, normal in 640x48001:26
wolfspraulgo figure01:26
wolfspraulI can probably reproduce this first going into the GUI at 1024x768 and then switching down to 640x48001:27
wpwraknobody said it would be easy :)01:27
wolfspraulbut given the number of small issues here and there, that's minor01:27
wpwrakwell, it may be a lead to fixing the video issues01:27
wpwrakalright, now you should be able to use the icreativ. you probably won't need the keyboard. so connect it just there.01:28
wpwrakthen go to the midi monitor and see if the icreativ is understood01:28
wolfspraulmy keyboard comes out with a german layout, after full jtag reflashing?01:29
wolfspraulis that stored in some place that was not overwritten, or is that our default?01:29
wpwraknot sure how much got deleted in the "full reflash"01:30
wolfspraulanyway, I'm happy01:30
wolfspraulthe keyboard works01:30
wpwrakusb keyboards can actually tell you what layout they are :)01:30
wolfspraulsince my old silicone keyboard broke01:30
wpwrakphew :)01:31
wpwrakso .. did you try the icreativ ?01:35
wolfspraulnot yet, really too late01:38
wolfspraulI need to fix the problem on fedora, will check kpaul's links tomorrow01:38
wolfspraulthe new mouse goes to xiangfu's pile01:38
wolfspraulnew keyboard works - awesome01:39
wolfspraultomorrow I continue with icreativ and the other controllers01:39
wolfspraulhave to get a midi cable still01:39
wpwrak(kbd) let's see how long until i break it again :)01:39
wolfsprauloh wait, the usb-midi controllers don't work on m1 yet, do they?01:40
wpwrakthey should01:40
wolfspraulI will just plug it together and watch in amazement what happens01:40
wpwrakdidn't try exhaustively. but it recognized the one i plugged in01:40
wolfspraulso usb-midi works01:40
wpwraksurprisingly well so far, yes01:40
wpwraki'm a little suspicious. if can't be *that* easy. it never is01:41
wolfspraulI go to sleep happily now. this all worked better than expected.01:43
wpwrakdespite all the troubles. pessimists have happy lives ;-)01:44
wolfsprauloptimist, that's why I plug stuff in!01:49
wolfspraullet me do a quick check whether I can reproduce the vertical shift problem ;-)01:49
wolfspraulwell then01:50
wolfspraulrendering in simple mode feels faster than before01:50
wpwrak(shift problem) that'll haunt us for a while longer01:51
wpwrak(rendering) dunno01:51
wolfsprauloops, my m1 just froze01:53
wpwrakthat's unusual01:54
wolfspraulI wouldn't say that, but we haven't done extensive testing on rc201:55
wolfspraulI know of one guy in Stuttgart for sure who says his m1 (rc2) is freezing so often and so fast that it is basically unusable01:55
wpwraknaw, in my experience, it rarely freezes nowadays01:55
wpwrakaah .. maybe an rc2 issue01:56
wolfspraulI have been able to reproduce freezing every few hours with my rc2, and I believe xiangfu had it too01:56
wolfsprauljust saying01:56
wpwrakhow do you reproduce it ?01:56
wolfspraulit's not a crazy bad problem, and we are fixing bug after bug01:56
wolfsprauljust let m1 run overnight01:56
wolfspraulmine is back rendering now01:57
wpwraknope. that doesn't do anything to my rc3.01:57
wolfspraulyes sure01:57
wolfspraulI just respond to you saying 'unusual'01:57
wolfspraulfreezing is not unusual01:57
wolfspraulbut it's becoming far less common with recent hw & s01:57
wpwrak>= rc3, there's hope that it is :)01:57
wolfspraulkristianpaul: have you seen your m1 freeze?01:58
wolfspraulsome of those freezes may also have been related to the L3 and L19 discoveries, I am not sure01:58
wolfspraulit doesn't matter. we just fix one bug after another, until it's perfect.01:58
wolfspraulwow 3am. that is no problem, but alarm at 7.45 am is. calling it a day, n801:59
wpwrakoh, you still have unfixed L3/L19 ?01:59
wolfspraulmine should be fixed, I am not sure01:59
wpwraksweet (and quick) dreams :)01:59
wolfspraulwe have tried to apply these fixes whereever possible, at every opportunity01:59
wpwrakheh :)02:00
wpwrakat some point in time, you may just retire all the rc<old> you can get a hold of02:00
wolfspraulor offer upgrade, sure02:00
wolfspraulthat's already happening actually02:00
wolfspraulI have bought back (!) several rc2, and upgraded to rc302:00
wpwrakkewl :)02:00
wolfspraulI think Adam has published a hardware upgrade guide in the wiki02:00
wolfspraulone rc2 was donated back to me02:01
wolfspraulI will try to upgrade it to rc3 and make best use of it, maybe as review unit or so02:01
wpwraki kinda doubt anyone will use that upgrade path. but it's nice to be there, just as a symbol :)02:01
wolfspraulso that is definitely happening, sure02:01
wpwrakwell, anyone but adam himself02:02
kristianpaulwolfspraul: yes02:03
wolfspraulwpwrak: here's for 'unusual'02:03
wpwrakrc2 :)02:03
wolfspraulhere's a little http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_RC2_Known_Issues#EasyFix02:09
wolfspraulI thought there was more somewhere02:09
wolfspraulhere :-) http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_run_3_schedule#Upgrade_h.2Fw_RC2_to_RC302:10
wolfspraullook at that :-)02:10
wpwrakL3/L19 should only matter when you connect things02:10
wolfspraulan easy 23 steps02:10
wolfspraulwith pictures!02:11
wolfspraulanybody can do it02:11
wpwraknothing there explains random freezes. kinda odd.02:11
wpwrakyeah, right :)02:11
wpwrakmaybe it's the reset circuit. or whatever was there in rc2.02:12
wolfspraulI wouldn't say 'random' freezes02:12
wolfsprauljust too little time and energy was spent in tracking them down, finding patterns etc.02:12
wolfspraulthey just mostly (all?) went away with the various fixes in hw and sw02:13
wpwrakheh :)02:13
wolfsprauli'm really out now, my m1 rc2 renders overnight, we see... n802:13
wpwrakin rc3, i only know of the NOR corruption, generally "dead" systems (catastrophic breakdown, like the flux thing), and then the rtems queue corruption02:14
lekernel_wpwrak: even with that overengineered and stupid protocol, most USB keyboards won't tell you their layout.10:47
lekernel_I've heard the reason is that adding a programmable part to store the layout would increase the cost compared to a mass-produced keyboard PCB that "works" with all layouts10:49
GitHub100[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/7b395b565e57f5ee2116e11ef99a9c2574ac5d6b11:23
GitHub100[migen/master] verilog: split comb block, use assign statements - Sebastien Bourdeauducq11:23
GitHub193[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/b6763c28ea20faacb77d7c3649f564b58b7738ad11:34
GitHub193[migen/master] constant: equality - Sebastien Bourdeauducq11:34
wpwraklekernel: (layout) oh, that's disappointing ;-(13:18
wpwrakwolfspraul: did you try usb-midi yet ?13:46
GitHub103[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/cdd9977a40be0160ada60b70d1f0e8d1ac51052a14:34
GitHub103[migen/master] fhdl: better signal naming heuristic - Sebastien Bourdeauducq14:34
wolfspraulwpwrak: not yet14:40
wolfspraulm1 was rendering fine overnight btw14:41
whitequarkcan anyone answer a few questions about milkymist build process?14:41
wpwrakpossibly :)14:44
wolfspraulwhitequark: welcome to #milkymist14:47
whitequarkthere are some references to Lattice IP cores14:58
whitequarklike this: https://github.com/milkymist/milkymist/blob/master/cores/lm32/rtl/lm32_instruction_unit.v#L38714:58
whitequarkthey are not present in Xilinx environment, are they?14:58
kristianpaulit depends if you mean build process for sinthesys, so yes15:02
kristianpaulthere is one order, let see15:03
kristianpauland  bitstream generation, bitgen15:03
wpwrakwhitequark: you probably need lekernel for a definite answer. i don't see us enabling IROM anywhere. (would probably be in boards/milkymist-one/rtl/lm32_include.v)15:08
kristianpauland yes,lattice ofer a full set of propietary IP cores for making a soc as well15:08
kristianpaulof course we just use the lm32 core :)15:09
kristianpaulalso fyi and think you alreadt noticed the jtag part for lm32 was adapted to sparnta-6, plus thre is a debug rom written by mwalle and lekernel15:13
whitequarkaha, thanks15:13
whitequarkI'll look into it more closely15:14
whitequarkthat question was from a friend of mine15:14
whitequarkhe has ported lattice IP cores to use Xilinx library15:14
whitequark*changed reference15:15
whitequarkyou got the idea.15:15
kristianpaulyou friend got a M1 too? :)15:15
whitequarkjust several Xilinx boards15:16
whitequarkhe didn't even knew about m1 until a few days from now15:16
kristianpauldid you showed yours in action?15:16
whitequarkI don't have an M1 (yet) :)15:17
kristianpaulstill traveling??15:17
kristianpauli mean shipping?15:17
whitequarkno, I didn't bought it yet15:18
kristianpaulah xD15:18
whitequarkI think I should make everything work in simulator15:18
kristianpauli imagined !15:18
whitequarkbecause it's the way fpgas are debugged anyway15:18
kristianpaulwell, you still need the silicon15:18
kristianpaulbut yeah, a testbench can be veryhandy..15:18
whitequark(plus I've recently relocated and, for example, I still need a proper work table...)15:19
kristianpauljust is icarus could run a lm32 core... as it is15:19
whitequarkwolfspraul convinced me to try making an MMU for lm3215:19
whitequarkI don't need silicon for that15:19
kristianpaulabout mmu, where it goes in milkymist?15:36
kristianpaulbecause still the FML, so the mmu will be a master core for the conbus?15:36
kristianpaulthe TLB is mandatory?15:38
kristianpaulah yes15:39
kristianpaulwhat does mean that the cache is tagged?15:40
kristianpaulalso this means there is a limit about the number of process can use mmu?15:42
whitequarkkristianpaul: I don't know a lot about MMUs and caches, but I know a bit :)15:43
whitequarkI can recommend you a book, "See MIPS Run Linux"15:43
whitequarkI didn't know anything about caches back when I read it, and it was quite easy to understand, unlike some other material on the topic15:44
kristianpaulahh that book !15:45
whitequarkeven the most stupid MMUs, like those in MIPS, do not limit the number of processes15:45
whitequarkactually, they are not like mmus found in Intel chips15:45
kristianpaulwhat about arm?15:45
kristianpaulor sparc?15:46
whitequarkI don't know a lot about ARM ones, but I've read about them. ARM ones (at least for Cortex-m3) are slightly more advanced than MIPS ones, but they're still very simple15:46
whitequarkand I don't know anything about sparc15:46
wpwrakso what sort of MMU architecture are you aiming for ? MIPS R4000-like ?16:25
wpwraki.e., virtual cache with physical tags. MMU running in parallel to the cache16:26
wpwrakor a physical cache, MMU between cache and RAM, like MIPS R2000/3000 ?16:26
whitequarkand the answer is: I do not know yet. I'm not proficient enough in LM32 arch.16:28
wpwrakokay. not sure it depends a lot on LM32, though16:30
whitequarkI try to not make preliminary decisiona16:30
larscthere is a discussion about the MMU topic in the MM ML archive16:37
whitequarkI'll read it17:01
wolfspraulwhitequark: specifically, here http://lists.milkymist.org/pipermail/devel-milkymist.org/2011-April/001418.html17:07
wolfsprauland http://lists.milkymist.org/pipermail/devel-milkymist.org/2011-April/001472.html17:07
wolfspraulI updated keyboard and mice information a little, and will ask xiangfu to retest and document the stuff he has as well... http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_accessories#keyboard18:28
wolfspraulin keyboards, there may be a few more that already work today18:29
wolfspraulI'm in the patch editor, and can't get out. there is some text, and when I move the mouse, it's always in selection mode18:44
wolfspraulcannot press the close button in the top left corner, nor any other button. it's always moving the selection18:45
wolfspraulalready tried all sorts of pressing and unplugging/replugging action, no way out yet...18:45
wolfspraulsomehow it release the selection mode :-)18:46
wolfspraulreleased. was able to close the window18:46
lekernelwhitequark: we're indeed not using the IROM, but in every case, this proprietary memory description can be easily replaced (as I did for the caches)19:08
whitequarklekernel: okay, got it19:14
wpwrakwolfspraul: hmm, may be slight report-misinterpretation. or a low battery :)19:14
whitequarkwhy they need an explicit memory description at all? Xilinx does a good job guessing it from my Verilog19:15
larscwhitequark: today19:17
wolfspraulwpwrak: sorry don't understand? which report? which battery?19:21
wpwrakwolfspraul: (report) that protocol used for HID devices. we have a few hardcoded formats but there could be a lot more variations.19:25
wpwrak(battery) if the mouse is battery-powered. sometimes, they start acting funny when low on power19:26
wolfspraulnot battery powered afaik. totally regular cheap high-volume mouse19:27
wolfspraulfree give-away with a notebook bag19:27
wolfspraulthe vertical resolution seems 10* faster than the horizontal one. other than that the behavior is quite stable.19:27
wolfspraulit's mostly unusable though because the super sensitive vertical means that you first have to scroll scroll scroll to get the horizontal right, and then the vertical very carefully. unusable.19:28
wolfspraulnot very important for me right now, I have another one that works19:28
whitequarklarsc: today ?19:31
larscwhitequark: today the tools do a good job at guessing the memory type19:36
lekernelwarning: 600-euro registration fee, including (and especially) if you speak. the joys of academia ...19:55
lekernelI wonder how strongly they enforce this, though - I've crashed a few times into expensive academic conferences without paying them a cent, and no one said anything19:56
wpwrakoslo in summer is nice20:00
wpwrakbooze is expensive, though. maybe that's where the price tag comes from :)20:00
lekernelphew, most academic conferences have > 300E registration fees20:02
lekernelit's within the "normal" range20:02
lekernelthey had FPL2011 in Greece, with 420E "early registration" fee20:04
wpwrakEUR 600 seems a bit high. don't remember how much they were in my days of conference hopping, but i think i would remember anything > EUR 400. so adding inflation, EUR 600 is still high.20:04
wpwrakmaybe it depends on the sector and FPGA folks are known to be wealthy ;-)20:04
lekernelit's quite funny how this kind of stuff varies widely depending on the conference20:05
lekernelacademic conference: you pay expensive registration, travel, accommodation, food20:05
lekernelsecurity conference: you don't pay any entrace fee, and they often cover travel, accommodation and/or food, and sometimes you even get a speaker fee on top of that20:06
wpwrakyes, but the non-speakers pay for you :)20:06
lekernelyes, of course20:06
wpwraksee, at the academic conferences, you're one of the customers20:06
wpwrakyou go there because you need a conference and publication for your curriculum20:07
lekerneloh, and I forgot that in the case of the academic conference, they make you sign off your copyright (for free) and sell your paper later on20:07
lekernelthis stuff is crazy20:08
wpwrakwhy do fat cats like fat cat business ? :-)20:08
wpwrakbut don't worry, open access will kill them20:08
lekernelthat's why I have absolutely no moral issue with crashing in and not giving them a cent20:08
Action: whitequark has memorized that.20:08
larsclekernel: do you tell them you left your ticket at home or do the just don't check the ticket?20:10
lekernelthey don't check20:11
lekernelin many conferences, they just have a registration desk somewhere, which you simply ignore and walk past :)20:11
lekernelin extreme cases, attendes even pick up their badge themselves on a table ...20:13
lekernelbtw, there's also http://www.fpgaworld.com/ which is free (sponsored by exhibitors)20:15
lekernelthere's even free food from Synopsys20:15
lekernelit's more MVC friendly ;)20:16
larscand it is in munich :)20:20
larscor at least was last year20:20
lekernelyeah, and I have some friends in Stockholm too :)20:21
GitHub58[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/34c69db14aced5ce010666b3b1e538d967a9fe3e20:26
GitHub58[migen/master] endpoint: add _i/_o suffix on signal names - Sebastien Bourdeauducq20:26
larscbtw. anybody going to fosdem this year?20:33
bkeroI am20:43
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