wolfspraul | ok, playing the unsuspecting m1 user... | 00:01 |
---|---|---|
wolfspraul | I got a free mouse with a notebook bag I bought over the holidays, tried it on m1, but the mouse moves so fast vertically and very slow horizontally | 00:01 |
wolfspraul | (still on 07-13) | 00:01 |
wolfspraul | I just bought a new rubber keyboard in Media Markt, works in my notebook, doesn't work on m1 | 00:02 |
wolfspraul | now... onto the update! :-) | 00:02 |
wpwrak | if you upgrade from july, mice will regress a little and keyboards will get a little better | 00:04 |
wolfspraul | let's see :-) | 00:05 |
wolfspraul | I got 2 new devices (normally I keep a strict set of 'works with m1') | 00:05 |
wolfspraul | plugging both in - both don't work | 00:05 |
wolfspraul | it can't get worse :-) | 00:05 |
wpwrak | excellent :) | 00:06 |
wolfspraul | wow, I just notice the reflash_m1.sh script stands at 389 lines! | 00:06 |
wolfspraul | built urjtag from source (on fedora 16), worked with a few hickups | 00:23 |
wolfspraul | running reflash_m1.sh --release now, suspense... | 00:23 |
wolfspraul | I see some 404 not found errors scrolling by... | 00:24 |
wolfspraul | reflash_m1.sh says 'your m1 was successfully reflashed' even when there are tons of errors before | 00:26 |
wolfspraul | the xc6slx45 was detected, but then "illegal state: Bus missing" | 00:27 |
wolfspraul | and bus driver missing | 00:27 |
wolfspraul | maybe something simple in my urjtag config? checking... | 00:27 |
wpwrak | maybe try m1nor ? http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/m1/tools/m1nor | 00:28 |
wpwrak | of course, i'm dodging the difficult part, the selection and downloading of the correct images :) | 00:30 |
wpwrak | but once you've solved that, it's all nice and modular | 00:30 |
wolfspraul | will try, but one sec | 00:30 |
wolfspraul | still at urjtag | 00:30 |
wolfspraul | by default all buses are enabled in the config | 00:30 |
wpwrak | whatever that means :) | 00:31 |
wolfspraul | yeah | 00:31 |
wolfspraul | onto m1nor | 00:31 |
wpwrak | the "bus missing" probably means that you don't have fjmem.bit | 00:32 |
wolfspraul | I don't think so, but ok | 00:32 |
wolfspraul | looking at m1nor it's running the same jtag commands, so I doubt this will work | 00:33 |
wolfspraul | anyway, trying | 00:33 |
wpwrak | m1nor will complain if it can't find fjmem,.bit locally | 00:33 |
wpwrak | if you have fjmem.bit but it's not valid, then strange things will happen :) | 00:33 |
wpwrak | usage: m1nor file ... | 00:33 |
wpwrak | you have to provide all the files you wish to flash | 00:34 |
wolfspraul | gee, yeah :-) | 00:34 |
wpwrak | you can do it one file at a time or several files at a time | 00:34 |
wolfspraul | so the first line would be: m1nor standby.fpg 0x0000 ? | 00:35 |
wpwrak | nope. just standby.fpg | 00:35 |
wpwrak | it knows where to put things | 00:35 |
wpwrak | that is, as long as you use "normal" file names | 00:35 |
wolfspraul | same errors (as expected) | 00:35 |
wolfspraul | illega state, bus missing, bus driver missing | 00:35 |
wpwrak | ah, that's bad then | 00:36 |
wolfspraul | something in urjtag | 00:36 |
wpwrak | anything before that ? | 00:36 |
wolfspraul | slx45 is detected | 00:36 |
wolfspraul | http://pastebin.com/Yyb9Prgf | 00:36 |
wolfspraul | I think it must be some simple problem in urjtag or my system environment | 00:37 |
wpwrak | funny. yes, looks as if urjtag is missing something | 00:38 |
wolfspraul | which "bus driver" do we need for our jtag-serial pod? | 00:38 |
wpwrak | hmm, if i knew ... don't have notes on how i got urtag :( | 00:38 |
wpwrak | oh wait, i do | 00:39 |
wpwrak | based on this: http://milkymist.org/wiki/index.php?title=Flashing_the_Milkymist_One | 00:40 |
wpwrak | this was my build & install process: http://pastebin.com/CaBgsLQb | 00:41 |
wolfspraul | yeah. but it didn't work for me :-) | 00:42 |
wolfspraul | investigating... | 00:42 |
wolfspraul | ah yes, busname is in the command, "fjmem" is the bus | 00:43 |
wpwrak | does help initbus mention fjmem ? | 00:45 |
wpwrak | as in "fjmem FPGA JTAG memory bus driver via USER register, [...]" | 00:46 |
wpwrak | ordering is only almost alphabetical. it would be too easy otherwise :) | 00:47 |
wolfspraul | oh well | 00:51 |
wolfspraul | when you are in the jtag console (just run 'jtag'), then 'cable milkymist', then 'detect' - what output do you see from the 'detect' command? | 00:51 |
wolfspraul | somehow when I do it interactively it just returns without anything | 00:51 |
wolfspraul | and subsequent commands say 'run detect first' | 00:52 |
wolfspraul | it works in the scripts, argh | 00:52 |
wolfspraul | good thing that I don't have to fix C compiler bugs before compiling urjtag before finding fjmem before reflashing before booting | 00:52 |
wpwrak | this is what i get: http://pastebin.com/ZJh1WeaT | 00:53 |
wolfspraul | yeah | 00:53 |
wpwrak | gee. it's a pity that c compiler bugs are so rare these days | 00:53 |
wolfspraul | no idea why I don't get that in interactive mode | 00:54 |
wpwrak | in general, i'd consider urjtag being a bit les chatty a good thing. but in your case ... | 00:54 |
wolfspraul | when I run m1nor or reflash_m1.sh, I see the same output. but when I run it interactively, detect returns without anything :-) | 00:54 |
wolfspraul | go figure | 00:54 |
wpwrak | fwiw, the version i have is commit d00fc335f37dcd4a3254850a41a48aa5740e9cf1 | 00:56 |
wpwrak | (Tue Aug 30 02:59:06 2011 +0000) | 00:56 |
wpwrak | (version of urjtag) | 00:56 |
wpwrak | so if you want to see if the past really was better than the present, ... ;) | 00:57 |
wolfspraul | in the debug log I see "FJMEM data register length: 0", wondering whether that's normal | 00:59 |
wpwrak | where'st hat debug log ? | 01:00 |
wolfspraul | found a "debug all" in reflash_m1.sh | 01:00 |
wolfspraul | it's probably a urjtag command | 01:00 |
wolfspraul | ah yes, reglen 0 does not look normal | 01:01 |
wolfspraul | of course that case has no error message in the sources | 01:01 |
wolfspraul | if (fjmem_reg_len <= 0) return NULL; | 01:01 |
wolfspraul | without urj_error_set() as all the other return NULL cases | 01:02 |
wpwrak | zero-length registers ... hmm yes, can exist just for the side effect. but in this case ... | 01:02 |
wpwrak | did you try using the d00fc335f37dcd4a3254850a41a48aa5740e9cf1 version ? | 01:03 |
wolfspraul | not yet. 2am, I'm super sleepy and have ca. 5 hours left to sleep. that has priority now :-) | 01:07 |
wolfspraul | I will try with that commit tomorrow | 01:07 |
wolfspraul | I have my old Debian machine around, one sec | 01:07 |
wolfspraul | that had a working jtag before :-) | 01:07 |
wpwrak | a history of success may help ;-) | 01:08 |
wpwrak | (5 h left to sleep) on a friday night ? weekends are for catching up on all the sleep you missed during the week, no ? :) | 01:08 |
wolfspraul | so reflash_m1.sh definitely gives me 404 for bios-rescue.raw, splash-rescue.raw and splash.raw | 01:12 |
wolfspraul | and the subsequent flashing fails of cours | 01:12 |
wolfspraul | other than that flashing works on my Debian system, phew | 01:12 |
wolfspraul | at least that | 01:12 |
wpwrak | small dents :) | 01:13 |
wolfspraul | guess those 3 files are missing in http://www.milkymist.org/updates/2011-11-29/ | 01:13 |
wolfspraul | "lockflash: unknown command" | 01:13 |
wolfspraul | hmm | 01:13 |
wpwrak | oopsie | 01:13 |
wolfspraul | "verify skipped" | 01:13 |
wolfspraul | well | 01:13 |
wpwrak | well, you don;t need it urgently | 01:13 |
wolfspraul | let's reboot! | 01:13 |
wpwrak | verify skipped is normal | 01:14 |
wolfspraul | yes, just for completeness | 01:14 |
wolfspraul | it may be normal but it may distract the unsuspecting newbie | 01:14 |
wolfspraul | unless we tell everybody 'don't worry about a lot of worrisome messages scrolling by' :-) | 01:14 |
wolfspraul | that's all normal | 01:14 |
kristianpaul | for the F16 user please confirm this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=732291 | 01:15 |
kristianpaul | also will be helpfull to build this urjtag https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=598315 | 01:15 |
kristianpaul | to support FEL ;) | 01:15 |
wpwrak | one problem is that urjtag doesn't return all errors. so neither reflash.sh nor m1nor can actually catch problems happening inside urjtag (jtag comand) | 01:15 |
kristianpaul | afai my laptop bios got crazy with F16 and installed the damn xubuntu alpha :/ | 01:15 |
wolfspraul | now my m1 suffers from d2/d3 dimly lit :-) | 01:15 |
kristianpaul | *g* | 01:16 |
wolfspraul | need to replug dc a few times... | 01:16 |
wolfspraul | all normal | 01:16 |
kristianpaul | thats souns like my rc2 ;) | 01:16 |
Action: kristianpaul loves fedora bugzilla | 01:16 | |
wpwrak | wolfspraul: what revision is it ? rc3 ? | 01:16 |
wolfspraul | I found when I wiggle the power cable a little when inserting, I can make the dimly lit go away | 01:16 |
wpwrak | eek | 01:16 |
wolfspraul | rc2 | 01:17 |
kristianpaul | i knew it ! | 01:17 |
wpwrak | ah. before my time :) | 01:17 |
wpwrak | rc3 never does "dimly lit" unless the NOR got corrupted | 01:18 |
wolfspraul | yes! it renders! | 01:18 |
wolfspraul | now... | 01:18 |
wolfspraul | first the old mouse | 01:18 |
wpwrak | drum roll ... | 01:18 |
wolfspraul | works | 01:19 |
wpwrak | whee ! no regression :) | 01:19 |
wolfspraul | new mouse: same as before, unusable | 01:19 |
wpwrak | :-( | 01:19 |
wolfspraul | vertical is crazy fast, horizontal very slow | 01:19 |
wolfspraul | plugged into my notebook - all fine | 01:20 |
wpwrak | some mice are odd. not sure yet why. i have one that's slow on x and y. need to find out how linux gets it right. | 01:20 |
wolfspraul | ok, will keep the old one and carry the new one around. probably dump with xiangfu who is collecting all the gear that doesn't work ;-) | 01:20 |
wolfspraul | next, the new keyboard | 01:21 |
wpwrak | how about the keyboard ? | 01:21 |
wpwrak | yeah :) | 01:21 |
wpwrak | from the silence, it probably detonated and left wolfspraul searching for his laptop in a smoke-filled room | 01:23 |
wolfspraul | no no | 01:24 |
wolfspraul | it worked | 01:24 |
wolfspraul | but of course I ran into another problem | 01:24 |
wolfspraul | after switching the gui from 1024x768 to 640x480, my projector couldn't pickup the signal right anymore | 01:24 |
wpwrak | heh :) | 01:24 |
wolfspraul | so the display was shifted (rolling around on top) | 01:24 |
wpwrak | sounds interesting :) | 01:24 |
wolfspraul | turning off the projector didn't help, strange | 01:24 |
wolfspraul | I am rebooting everything now | 01:25 |
wpwrak | did that keyboard work before ? | 01:25 |
wolfspraul | he | 01:26 |
wolfspraul | no it did not! | 01:26 |
wpwrak | if you have a projector that fails to work, that may be VERY useful. that would be the first truly reproducible failyre. | 01:26 |
wolfspraul | after rebooting everything from total power down, the m1 was in rendering mode | 01:26 |
wpwrak | excellent. progress has been achieved ! :) | 01:26 |
wolfspraul | and my projector first picked up the wrong vertical shift again! | 01:26 |
wolfspraul | but after a few seconds, it's back to normal | 01:26 |
wolfspraul | now GUI... | 01:26 |
wolfspraul | yeah, normal in 640x480 | 01:26 |
wolfspraul | go figure | 01:26 |
wolfspraul | I can probably reproduce this first going into the GUI at 1024x768 and then switching down to 640x480 | 01:27 |
wpwrak | nobody said it would be easy :) | 01:27 |
wolfspraul | but given the number of small issues here and there, that's minor | 01:27 |
wpwrak | well, it may be a lead to fixing the video issues | 01:27 |
wpwrak | alright, now you should be able to use the icreativ. you probably won't need the keyboard. so connect it just there. | 01:28 |
wpwrak | then go to the midi monitor and see if the icreativ is understood | 01:28 |
wolfspraul | my keyboard comes out with a german layout, after full jtag reflashing? | 01:29 |
wolfspraul | is that stored in some place that was not overwritten, or is that our default? | 01:29 |
wpwrak | not sure how much got deleted in the "full reflash" | 01:30 |
wolfspraul | anyway, I'm happy | 01:30 |
wolfspraul | the keyboard works | 01:30 |
wolfspraul | great | 01:30 |
wpwrak | usb keyboards can actually tell you what layout they are :) | 01:30 |
wolfspraul | since my old silicone keyboard broke | 01:30 |
wpwrak | phew :) | 01:31 |
wpwrak | so .. did you try the icreativ ? | 01:35 |
wolfspraul | not yet, really too late | 01:38 |
wolfspraul | I need to fix the problem on fedora, will check kpaul's links tomorrow | 01:38 |
wolfspraul | the new mouse goes to xiangfu's pile | 01:38 |
wolfspraul | new keyboard works - awesome | 01:39 |
wolfspraul | tomorrow I continue with icreativ and the other controllers | 01:39 |
wolfspraul | have to get a midi cable still | 01:39 |
wpwrak | (kbd) let's see how long until i break it again :) | 01:39 |
wolfspraul | oh wait, the usb-midi controllers don't work on m1 yet, do they? | 01:40 |
wpwrak | they should | 01:40 |
wolfspraul | ok | 01:40 |
wolfspraul | I will just plug it together and watch in amazement what happens | 01:40 |
wpwrak | didn't try exhaustively. but it recognized the one i plugged in | 01:40 |
wolfspraul | ok | 01:40 |
wolfspraul | so usb-midi works | 01:40 |
wpwrak | surprisingly well so far, yes | 01:40 |
wpwrak | i'm a little suspicious. if can't be *that* easy. it never is | 01:41 |
wpwrak | s/if/it/ | 01:41 |
wolfspraul | I go to sleep happily now. this all worked better than expected. | 01:43 |
wpwrak | despite all the troubles. pessimists have happy lives ;-) | 01:44 |
wolfspraul | optimist, that's why I plug stuff in! | 01:49 |
wolfspraul | let me do a quick check whether I can reproduce the vertical shift problem ;-) | 01:49 |
wolfspraul | no | 01:50 |
wolfspraul | well then | 01:50 |
wolfspraul | rendering in simple mode feels faster than before | 01:50 |
wpwrak | (shift problem) that'll haunt us for a while longer | 01:51 |
wpwrak | (rendering) dunno | 01:51 |
wolfspraul | oops, my m1 just froze | 01:53 |
wpwrak | that's unusual | 01:54 |
wolfspraul | I wouldn't say that, but we haven't done extensive testing on rc2 | 01:55 |
wolfspraul | I know of one guy in Stuttgart for sure who says his m1 (rc2) is freezing so often and so fast that it is basically unusable | 01:55 |
wpwrak | naw, in my experience, it rarely freezes nowadays | 01:55 |
wpwrak | aah .. maybe an rc2 issue | 01:56 |
wolfspraul | I have been able to reproduce freezing every few hours with my rc2, and I believe xiangfu had it too | 01:56 |
wolfspraul | just saying | 01:56 |
wpwrak | how do you reproduce it ? | 01:56 |
wolfspraul | it's not a crazy bad problem, and we are fixing bug after bug | 01:56 |
wolfspraul | just let m1 run overnight | 01:56 |
wolfspraul | mine is back rendering now | 01:57 |
wpwrak | nope. that doesn't do anything to my rc3. | 01:57 |
wolfspraul | yes sure | 01:57 |
wolfspraul | I just respond to you saying 'unusual' | 01:57 |
wolfspraul | freezing is not unusual | 01:57 |
wolfspraul | but it's becoming far less common with recent hw & s | 01:57 |
wolfspraul | sw | 01:57 |
wpwrak | >= rc3, there's hope that it is :) | 01:57 |
wolfspraul | kristianpaul: have you seen your m1 freeze? | 01:58 |
wolfspraul | some of those freezes may also have been related to the L3 and L19 discoveries, I am not sure | 01:58 |
wolfspraul | it doesn't matter. we just fix one bug after another, until it's perfect. | 01:58 |
wolfspraul | wow 3am. that is no problem, but alarm at 7.45 am is. calling it a day, n8 | 01:59 |
wpwrak | oh, you still have unfixed L3/L19 ? | 01:59 |
wpwrak | ;-)) | 01:59 |
wolfspraul | mine should be fixed, I am not sure | 01:59 |
wpwrak | sweet (and quick) dreams :) | 01:59 |
wolfspraul | we have tried to apply these fixes whereever possible, at every opportunity | 01:59 |
wpwrak | heh :) | 02:00 |
wpwrak | at some point in time, you may just retire all the rc<old> you can get a hold of | 02:00 |
wolfspraul | or offer upgrade, sure | 02:00 |
wolfspraul | that's already happening actually | 02:00 |
wolfspraul | I have bought back (!) several rc2, and upgraded to rc3 | 02:00 |
wpwrak | kewl :) | 02:00 |
wolfspraul | I think Adam has published a hardware upgrade guide in the wiki | 02:00 |
wolfspraul | one rc2 was donated back to me | 02:01 |
wolfspraul | I will try to upgrade it to rc3 and make best use of it, maybe as review unit or so | 02:01 |
wpwrak | i kinda doubt anyone will use that upgrade path. but it's nice to be there, just as a symbol :) | 02:01 |
wolfspraul | so that is definitely happening, sure | 02:01 |
wpwrak | well, anyone but adam himself | 02:02 |
kristianpaul | wolfspraul: yes | 02:03 |
wolfspraul | wpwrak: here's for 'unusual' | 02:03 |
wpwrak | rc2 :) | 02:03 |
wolfspraul | here's a little http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_RC2_Known_Issues#EasyFix | 02:09 |
wolfspraul | I thought there was more somewhere | 02:09 |
wolfspraul | here :-) http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_run_3_schedule#Upgrade_h.2Fw_RC2_to_RC3 | 02:10 |
wolfspraul | look at that :-) | 02:10 |
wpwrak | L3/L19 should only matter when you connect things | 02:10 |
wolfspraul | an easy 23 steps | 02:10 |
wolfspraul | with pictures! | 02:11 |
wolfspraul | anybody can do it | 02:11 |
wpwrak | nothing there explains random freezes. kinda odd. | 02:11 |
wpwrak | yeah, right :) | 02:11 |
wpwrak | maybe it's the reset circuit. or whatever was there in rc2. | 02:12 |
wolfspraul | I wouldn't say 'random' freezes | 02:12 |
wolfspraul | just too little time and energy was spent in tracking them down, finding patterns etc. | 02:12 |
wolfspraul | they just mostly (all?) went away with the various fixes in hw and sw | 02:13 |
wpwrak | heh :) | 02:13 |
wolfspraul | i'm really out now, my m1 rc2 renders overnight, we see... n8 | 02:13 |
wpwrak | in rc3, i only know of the NOR corruption, generally "dead" systems (catastrophic breakdown, like the flux thing), and then the rtems queue corruption | 02:14 |
lekernel_ | wpwrak: even with that overengineered and stupid protocol, most USB keyboards won't tell you their layout. | 10:47 |
lekernel_ | I've heard the reason is that adding a programmable part to store the layout would increase the cost compared to a mass-produced keyboard PCB that "works" with all layouts | 10:49 |
GitHub100 | [migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/7b395b565e57f5ee2116e11ef99a9c2574ac5d6b | 11:23 |
GitHub100 | [migen/master] verilog: split comb block, use assign statements - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 11:23 |
GitHub193 | [migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/b6763c28ea20faacb77d7c3649f564b58b7738ad | 11:34 |
GitHub193 | [migen/master] constant: equality - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 11:34 |
wpwrak | lekernel: (layout) oh, that's disappointing ;-( | 13:18 |
wpwrak | wolfspraul: did you try usb-midi yet ? | 13:46 |
GitHub103 | [migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/cdd9977a40be0160ada60b70d1f0e8d1ac51052a | 14:34 |
GitHub103 | [migen/master] fhdl: better signal naming heuristic - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 14:34 |
wolfspraul | wpwrak: not yet | 14:40 |
wolfspraul | m1 was rendering fine overnight btw | 14:41 |
whitequark | can anyone answer a few questions about milkymist build process? | 14:41 |
wpwrak | possibly :) | 14:44 |
wolfspraul | whitequark: welcome to #milkymist | 14:47 |
whitequark | there are some references to Lattice IP cores | 14:58 |
whitequark | like this: https://github.com/milkymist/milkymist/blob/master/cores/lm32/rtl/lm32_instruction_unit.v#L387 | 14:58 |
whitequark | they are not present in Xilinx environment, are they? | 14:58 |
kristianpaul | it depends if you mean build process for sinthesys, so yes | 15:02 |
kristianpaul | there is one order, let see | 15:03 |
kristianpaul | ngdbuild | 15:03 |
kristianpaul | map | 15:03 |
kristianpaul | par | 15:03 |
kristianpaul | and bitstream generation, bitgen | 15:03 |
wpwrak | whitequark: you probably need lekernel for a definite answer. i don't see us enabling IROM anywhere. (would probably be in boards/milkymist-one/rtl/lm32_include.v) | 15:08 |
kristianpaul | indeed | 15:08 |
kristianpaul | and yes,lattice ofer a full set of propietary IP cores for making a soc as well | 15:08 |
kristianpaul | of course we just use the lm32 core :) | 15:09 |
kristianpaul | also fyi and think you alreadt noticed the jtag part for lm32 was adapted to sparnta-6, plus thre is a debug rom written by mwalle and lekernel | 15:13 |
whitequark | aha, thanks | 15:13 |
whitequark | I'll look into it more closely | 15:14 |
whitequark | that question was from a friend of mine | 15:14 |
whitequark | he has ported lattice IP cores to use Xilinx library | 15:14 |
whitequark | *changed reference | 15:15 |
whitequark | you got the idea. | 15:15 |
kristianpaul | yes | 15:15 |
kristianpaul | you friend got a M1 too? :) | 15:15 |
whitequark | nope | 15:15 |
whitequark | just several Xilinx boards | 15:16 |
whitequark | he didn't even knew about m1 until a few days from now | 15:16 |
kristianpaul | cool! | 15:16 |
kristianpaul | did you showed yours in action? | 15:16 |
whitequark | I don't have an M1 (yet) :) | 15:17 |
kristianpaul | still traveling?? | 15:17 |
kristianpaul | i mean shipping? | 15:17 |
whitequark | no, I didn't bought it yet | 15:18 |
kristianpaul | ah xD | 15:18 |
whitequark | I think I should make everything work in simulator | 15:18 |
kristianpaul | i imagined ! | 15:18 |
whitequark | because it's the way fpgas are debugged anyway | 15:18 |
kristianpaul | well, you still need the silicon | 15:18 |
kristianpaul | but yeah, a testbench can be veryhandy.. | 15:18 |
whitequark | (plus I've recently relocated and, for example, I still need a proper work table...) | 15:19 |
kristianpaul | just is icarus could run a lm32 core... as it is | 15:19 |
whitequark | wolfspraul convinced me to try making an MMU for lm32 | 15:19 |
whitequark | I don't need silicon for that | 15:19 |
kristianpaul | indeed | 15:28 |
kristianpaul | about mmu, where it goes in milkymist? | 15:36 |
kristianpaul | because still the FML, so the mmu will be a master core for the conbus? | 15:36 |
kristianpaul | the TLB is mandatory? | 15:38 |
kristianpaul | ah yes | 15:39 |
kristianpaul | what does mean that the cache is tagged? | 15:40 |
kristianpaul | also this means there is a limit about the number of process can use mmu? | 15:42 |
whitequark | kristianpaul: I don't know a lot about MMUs and caches, but I know a bit :) | 15:43 |
whitequark | I can recommend you a book, "See MIPS Run Linux" | 15:43 |
whitequark | I didn't know anything about caches back when I read it, and it was quite easy to understand, unlike some other material on the topic | 15:44 |
whitequark | http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6040309/ | 15:44 |
kristianpaul | ahh that book ! | 15:45 |
whitequark | even the most stupid MMUs, like those in MIPS, do not limit the number of processes | 15:45 |
whitequark | actually, they are not like mmus found in Intel chips | 15:45 |
kristianpaul | what about arm? | 15:45 |
whitequark | hm | 15:45 |
kristianpaul | or sparc? | 15:46 |
whitequark | I don't know a lot about ARM ones, but I've read about them. ARM ones (at least for Cortex-m3) are slightly more advanced than MIPS ones, but they're still very simple | 15:46 |
whitequark | and I don't know anything about sparc | 15:46 |
wpwrak | so what sort of MMU architecture are you aiming for ? MIPS R4000-like ? | 16:25 |
wpwrak | i.e., virtual cache with physical tags. MMU running in parallel to the cache | 16:26 |
wpwrak | or a physical cache, MMU between cache and RAM, like MIPS R2000/3000 ? | 16:26 |
whitequark | and the answer is: I do not know yet. I'm not proficient enough in LM32 arch. | 16:28 |
wpwrak | okay. not sure it depends a lot on LM32, though | 16:30 |
whitequark | maybe | 16:30 |
whitequark | I try to not make preliminary decisiona | 16:30 |
whitequark | *decisions | 16:30 |
larsc | there is a discussion about the MMU topic in the MM ML archive | 16:37 |
whitequark | I'll read it | 17:01 |
wolfspraul | whitequark: specifically, here http://lists.milkymist.org/pipermail/devel-milkymist.org/2011-April/001418.html | 17:07 |
wolfspraul | and http://lists.milkymist.org/pipermail/devel-milkymist.org/2011-April/001472.html | 17:07 |
wolfspraul | I updated keyboard and mice information a little, and will ask xiangfu to retest and document the stuff he has as well... http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_accessories#keyboard | 18:28 |
wolfspraul | in keyboards, there may be a few more that already work today | 18:29 |
wolfspraul | I'm in the patch editor, and can't get out. there is some text, and when I move the mouse, it's always in selection mode | 18:44 |
wolfspraul | cannot press the close button in the top left corner, nor any other button. it's always moving the selection | 18:45 |
wolfspraul | already tried all sorts of pressing and unplugging/replugging action, no way out yet... | 18:45 |
wolfspraul | somehow it release the selection mode :-) | 18:46 |
wolfspraul | released. was able to close the window | 18:46 |
lekernel | whitequark: we're indeed not using the IROM, but in every case, this proprietary memory description can be easily replaced (as I did for the caches) | 19:08 |
whitequark | lekernel: okay, got it | 19:14 |
wpwrak | wolfspraul: hmm, may be slight report-misinterpretation. or a low battery :) | 19:14 |
whitequark | why they need an explicit memory description at all? Xilinx does a good job guessing it from my Verilog | 19:15 |
larsc | whitequark: today | 19:17 |
wolfspraul | wpwrak: sorry don't understand? which report? which battery? | 19:21 |
wpwrak | wolfspraul: (report) that protocol used for HID devices. we have a few hardcoded formats but there could be a lot more variations. | 19:25 |
wpwrak | (battery) if the mouse is battery-powered. sometimes, they start acting funny when low on power | 19:26 |
wolfspraul | not battery powered afaik. totally regular cheap high-volume mouse | 19:27 |
wolfspraul | free give-away with a notebook bag | 19:27 |
wolfspraul | the vertical resolution seems 10* faster than the horizontal one. other than that the behavior is quite stable. | 19:27 |
wolfspraul | it's mostly unusable though because the super sensitive vertical means that you first have to scroll scroll scroll to get the horizontal right, and then the vertical very carefully. unusable. | 19:28 |
wolfspraul | not very important for me right now, I have another one that works | 19:28 |
whitequark | larsc: today ? | 19:31 |
larsc | whitequark: today the tools do a good job at guessing the memory type | 19:36 |
lekernel | http://www.fpl2012.org/FPL2012_CFP.pdf | 19:52 |
lekernel | warning: 600-euro registration fee, including (and especially) if you speak. the joys of academia ... | 19:55 |
lekernel | I wonder how strongly they enforce this, though - I've crashed a few times into expensive academic conferences without paying them a cent, and no one said anything | 19:56 |
wpwrak | oslo in summer is nice | 20:00 |
wpwrak | booze is expensive, though. maybe that's where the price tag comes from :) | 20:00 |
lekernel | phew, most academic conferences have > 300E registration fees | 20:02 |
lekernel | it's within the "normal" range | 20:02 |
lekernel | they had FPL2011 in Greece, with 420E "early registration" fee | 20:04 |
lekernel | http://fpl2011.org/index.php?cat_id=5 | 20:04 |
wpwrak | EUR 600 seems a bit high. don't remember how much they were in my days of conference hopping, but i think i would remember anything > EUR 400. so adding inflation, EUR 600 is still high. | 20:04 |
wpwrak | maybe it depends on the sector and FPGA folks are known to be wealthy ;-) | 20:04 |
lekernel | it's quite funny how this kind of stuff varies widely depending on the conference | 20:05 |
lekernel | academic conference: you pay expensive registration, travel, accommodation, food | 20:05 |
lekernel | security conference: you don't pay any entrace fee, and they often cover travel, accommodation and/or food, and sometimes you even get a speaker fee on top of that | 20:06 |
wpwrak | yes, but the non-speakers pay for you :) | 20:06 |
lekernel | yes, of course | 20:06 |
wpwrak | see, at the academic conferences, you're one of the customers | 20:06 |
wpwrak | you go there because you need a conference and publication for your curriculum | 20:07 |
lekernel | oh, and I forgot that in the case of the academic conference, they make you sign off your copyright (for free) and sell your paper later on | 20:07 |
lekernel | this stuff is crazy | 20:08 |
wpwrak | why do fat cats like fat cat business ? :-) | 20:08 |
wpwrak | but don't worry, open access will kill them | 20:08 |
lekernel | that's why I have absolutely no moral issue with crashing in and not giving them a cent | 20:08 |
Action: whitequark has memorized that. | 20:08 | |
larsc | lekernel: do you tell them you left your ticket at home or do the just don't check the ticket? | 20:10 |
lekernel | they don't check | 20:11 |
lekernel | in many conferences, they just have a registration desk somewhere, which you simply ignore and walk past :) | 20:11 |
lekernel | in extreme cases, attendes even pick up their badge themselves on a table ... | 20:13 |
larsc | hehe | 20:15 |
lekernel | btw, there's also http://www.fpgaworld.com/ which is free (sponsored by exhibitors) | 20:15 |
lekernel | there's even free food from Synopsys | 20:15 |
lekernel | it's more MVC friendly ;) | 20:16 |
larsc | and it is in munich :) | 20:20 |
larsc | or at least was last year | 20:20 |
lekernel | yeah, and I have some friends in Stockholm too :) | 20:21 |
GitHub58 | [migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/34c69db14aced5ce010666b3b1e538d967a9fe3e | 20:26 |
GitHub58 | [migen/master] endpoint: add _i/_o suffix on signal names - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 20:26 |
larsc | btw. anybody going to fosdem this year? | 20:33 |
bkero | I am | 20:43 |
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