#milkymist IRC log for Monday, 2011-12-05

xiangfuwpwrak, the DMX device will arrive today evening. good news. :) because I got a message yesterday. it said will delay ~5 days. :)08:33
xiangfuthen I will upload some pictures08:34
xiangfumaybe I will got them in next 3 or 4 hours.08:34
aw_xiangfu, http://dpaste.com/666344/  Does it show that 'lm32-rtems4.11' compiles well and boot.bin without err ?11:56
wpwraklooks good, yes12:05
wpwrakaw_: (fedex) thanks !!12:06
wpwrakaw_: what total declared value did you put ?12:07
aw_wpwrak, great. I've not put declared value yet. Don't tell me now. hehe ... one day let me figured it out. just want to confirm tool is okay. :)12:14
wpwrakno, i mean on the fedex shipment12:16
wpwrakor did you not declare the value of the shipment ?12:16
aw_ha ~ the fedex declared value I put USD 35 only. :)12:17
aw_reason: repair since the M1 looks a repair board. :)12:18
aw_do u think it's okay ?12:18
wpwrakhehe ;-))12:18
wpwraklet's see what happens12:19
wpwraki usually try not to give them an excuse to stop it at customs and make me go there. but well, maybe it works.12:19
aw_i did mostly like that way. so hopefully it goes through12:19
aw_one question: how can I know mostly that compiler works well in linux environment ? just dig into each Makefile to see what they do ? or other way ?12:21
aw_in the window IDE environment, I usually see the 'output windows' to see the results of compilation. And smart IDE tool with different color automatically to point err /or warn lines.12:24
aw_so in terminal, how should I focus on compiling ?12:25
aw_Are my questions stupid enough ? or don't ask in that way, and just _do_ it ?12:27
wpwrakaw_: if there's an error, it will tell you at the end :)12:35
wpwrakaw_: and soon, the compilations will be less chatty. then it will be MUCH easier to spot problems12:35
xiangfuaw_, ( http://dpaste.com/666344/  ) looks fine.12:46
xiangfuaw_, you can try the boot.bin now.12:46
xiangfuaw_, but there is no image's CRC in this boot.bin12:46
aw_wpwrak, oah ~ see it now. I just intended to type wrong, compiled and understood your 'less' vs 'MUCH'. thanks ! I.e. all the results are in way of historical context.12:46
aw_xiangfu, oah ~ yes. Thanks ! I also saw a file 'append_crc_len.sh'. So does it work for it ?12:48
xiangfuaw_, yes. it works fine. it needs one parameter: IMAGES_DIR12:53
xiangfuaw_, this patch should contain all images.12:55
aw_xiangfu, I don't know them now. he. :)13:04
wpwrakaw_: (less/MUCH) ah, i meant something else: the patches xiangfu just posted will reduce the output during a normal compilation. so if there is any problem, the error message will be easy to spot13:06
xiangfuaw_, s/this patch/this path/13:07
aw_xiangfu, wpwrak ha ~ got it.13:10
xiangfuaw_, hmm... I will think about this boot.crc.bin. the release image don't have bios-rescue and splash-rescue.13:12
xiangfuoh.13:12
wolfspraulinteresting, reading about Lemur http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemur_Input_Device15:01
wolfspraulthis was a multi-touch osc controller which sold for 1500-2000 USD and used by serious artists and performers for a few years15:02
wolfspraulseems they retreated peacefully from the marketplace after the ipad showed up and killed their business...15:02
wolfspraulhttp://www.jazzmutant.com/newsletter.php15:02
wolfspraulhttp://www.jazzmutant.com/ (farewell post)15:03
wolfspraulI am harvesting their remaining reseller links, those are all good leads for Milkymist imho http://www.jazzmutant.com/order.php15:03
wolfspraulI am wondering how many were sold in total, they seem to have an impressive list of artists who used it, so I don't know15:06
wolfspraulI'd say 500 at least15:06
lekernel__further reason to go beyond the touchscreen...?15:06
wolfspraul500-2000 ? even more?15:06
wolfspraulwell if I think about their product it's clear they had no chance against the ipad15:06
wolfspraulmaybe they can port their software over, but then I don't know how attractive it still is to real artists...15:07
wolfspraulanyway, I just foudn out about it, following old leads from guys I met15:07
wolfspraulLemur :-)15:07
wolfspraulgood thing I foudn their reseller list before they are shutting down the entire jazzmutant.com site, seems soon...15:07
lekernel__what's worrying me (yeah, always pessimistic, I know) is they still got killed despite these resellers and impressive list of artists15:08
wolfspraulhow could they not?15:08
wolfspraulsome of those artists may not have been paying customers, we don't know15:09
wolfspraulthen how many additional customers are really drawn to a 1500-2000 USD product, no matter how many Bjoerks use it?15:09
wolfspraulI think it will be in the hundreds, at the very most low thousands15:09
wolfspraulso let's say 200015:09
wolfspraul2000 * 1000 = 2 million USD15:09
wolfspraulthey have to fund everything from that, which is possible but still tough business15:09
wolfspraulseveral people for several years, marketing, manufacturing, software development, etc.15:10
wolfsprauland then the ipad comes15:10
wolfsprauland booom15:10
wolfspraulthey have no chance15:10
wolfspraulI mean that thing even looks like an ipad before the ipad, no? :-) from the pics15:12
wolfspraulthey should have sued Apple15:12
wolfspraulunfortunately in the real world they would need at least a 100 million USD investment or so to take on such a 'project'15:12
wolfspraulwhat do these guys do now?15:13
wolfspraulmust be something interesting :-)15:13
lekernel__http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_gallery_videos.php15:14
lekernel__well, yes... it's an ipad :)15:14
lekernel__http://www.stantum.com/en/ that's their parent company15:20
lekernel__http://www.stantum.com/en/solutions/supply15:22
wpwrak(lemur) interesting. so that's where iCon got their idea for their USD 125 controller from :)15:56
wpwraklekernel__: btw, any comment on my fpvm.c cosmetic changes ? okay to proceed in this direction ?16:00
lekernel__wpwrak: still need to have a deeper look at it, but the idea was to make libfpvm relatively generic16:03
lekernel__that's why it works on equations and not patches16:03
lekernel__that's an attempt to limit spaghetti code and have clearer interfaces :)16:04
lekernel__do you think the fpvm equation parser could take over within a better/more conventional patch parser (I agree it could be improved) and read characters until some delimiter? (\n, ;, etc.)16:06
wpwrakstacking parsers inside parsers tends to be messy. but where do you need "naked" equations anyway ? the prologue and epilogue could be treated like regular patches as well - and look better than they do today16:09
lekernel__this is more an attempt to keep some modularity than anything else16:11
wpwrakif you really need "naked" equations, you can steer the grammar towards some special start state16:11
lekernel__I don't need naked equations... except for prologue/epilogue as you said16:12
lekernel__it's for keeping it modular16:12
wpwraknaw, just makes things complicated :) the language is pretty simple. breaking things up in the middle adds mainly complexity. worse, you have a lot of information that's shared between both sides (e.g., predefined variables)16:13
lekernel__libfpvm implements fast equations on the hw accelerator, with a clear interface16:13
wpwrakthe most straightforward solution would be to move the whole parser into flickernoise :)16:13
lekernel__then you can build other stuff on top of this, like the patch parser16:13
wpwrakyou could make the AST or something similar the interface. then you don't break up the language16:14
lekernel__that's a possibility, but then inserting the prologue/epilogue by manipulating the AST in C is messy16:15
wpwraknot at all. you'd just run it through the parser like the patch itself16:16
wpwrakso you build one AST or AST-like thing16:16
wpwrakbascially whatever you have right above dynamic register allocation and code generation makes a "clean" interface16:17
lekernel__yes, I agree with the AST interface solution16:17
wpwrakbelow all this, you have another "clean" interface (i.e., one the scheduler uses)16:17
lekernel__as long as prologue/epilogue aren't messy :)16:17
lekernel__btw, you can drop the demo firmware if you make large changes like this16:18
wpwraki would hope to just have them in files :) or some long-string-embedded-in-C equivalent16:18
wpwrakright now, they're kinda hard to decipher anyway16:18
lekernel__nowhere near as hard as manual allocation of AST nodes :)16:19
wpwrak(demo) excellent, thanks !! i was worried about that one :)16:19
wpwrakyou could write the prologue and epilogue in hand-optimized "assembler". then everybody would believe it's for performance ;-))16:20
wpwrakbut i think it'll work just fine to turn this into a "program" that looks like a regular patch16:20
lekernel__not really, you need to take care of the single-use registers16:20
lekernel__and assembly wouldn't even be efficient16:21
lekernel__just run it through some parser like it's done now16:21
lekernel__that's the best solution16:21
wpwrakfunny. the lemur is just how i pictured our touch screen should be. i'd just not use real multi-touch (need some buttons on the side, though) and would use less colors16:24
wpwraki have a few openmoko touch screens lying around. these would in theory be easy for prototyping. alas, they're tiny16:27
wpwraki also have one or two P2P clones from HXD8. they're a little bigger. hmm...16:28
kristianpaulwow prety futuristic this lemur, well i guess for its born time16:34
wpwrakthat was just 6 years ago16:35
kristianpaulhum16:40
GitHub96[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/ec51f09c98676a6b14be3abfdaa43f995a85545816:48
GitHub96[migen/master] Case support + register bank generator - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:48
GitHub164[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/4340680704900b8836380012ca6c56dc8c4f526718:29
GitHub164[migen/master] Cleanup - Sebastien Bourdeauducq18:29
GitHub38[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/0e8d894a354652c6dd361f31818e8b9e625efc7721:04
GitHub38[migen/master] Variable conversion - Sebastien Bourdeauducq21:04
wpwrakpity that we'll probably want to run algorithmic optimizations on the AST later. otherwise, the parser could just generate code directly22:46
azonenbergHmm23:14
azonenbergThe datasheet and timing analysis disagree23:14
azonenbergas to the high end of the BUFG clock range23:14
azonenbergI'm creating a PoC design (just a single LUT and a flipflop configured as a divide-by-two) that I want to clock as fast as I can23:14
azonenbergusing a 100 Mhz input clock multiplied up by a PLL_ADV23:14
azonenbergThe datasheet seems to suggest the global clock network runs up to 400 Mhz23:15
azonenbergBut my design passes timing at a 5x multiplier23:15
azonenbergAny guesses as to which one to believe and how ot test this for sure?23:15
wpwrakare you saying it works beyond the guaranteed specs ? where's the problem then ?23:20
wpwrakhmm, i wonder if variable names like "sin", "cos", etc., are valid in milkdrop. they would currently be in FNP, but that's not necessarily a nice feature.23:58
n0carri3rwhoa, big site update :)23:58
n0carri3rthanks for the concert shots!23:58
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