#milkymist IRC log for Sunday, 2011-12-04

dvdkhuh, just trying to get the latest ISE web pack, and the web page asks me for "company name" and "shipping address" for export regulation checks.00:30
dvdkwhat do you guys enter there for download?  just wondering whether I should insert "qi-hardware.com" or "sharism", which would even be partiall true...00:30
kristianpauldvdk: oh, hi !00:30
kristianpaulgot a M1 too seems :-)00:30
kristianpauljust lie00:31
kristianpauli enter real data, but i think other will not matter much...00:31
dvdk(about M1) no, not yet.  maybe sometime next year.  just trying to get a working toolchain setup first.00:31
kristianpaulwell, i think you can put qi-hw00:31
kristianpaulwhy not? ;-)00:32
dvdklying would be easy.  just feels discriminating, that they won't hand out theyr software to free software enthusiasts in a honest way.00:32
dvdkyeah, think i will just do that.00:32
dvdkthey even want my phone number. yuck.00:34
kristianpaulha, just be sure disable webtalk (http://lekernel.net/blog/2010/05/xilinx-ise-12-phoning-home/)00:35
dvdkmaybe firewall the whole process00:36
kristianpaulyeah, good idea too00:36
dvdkah, download started.00:38
dvdknow i'm working at "qi-hardware" in the "free software development" department00:38
dvdk... located in germany00:38
kristianpaulwellcome !00:38
wpwrakthey must be wondering what megacorp has recently become their customer00:40
kristianpaulfor the record i register in the name of the local hacklab :)00:40
kristianpaulwpwrak: =)00:40
kristianpaul2 minutes of advantage computer from new laptop (synthesis), not bad :)02:28
wpwrakhuh ? you synthesized M1 in 2 minutes ?02:30
kristianpaulerghh, sorry 16 minutes :-)02:31
kristianpaulplus 2 in laptop02:31
wpwrakstill fast. but what exactly did you do ?02:33
kristianpaulah, well basically disable everything i could in the soc (tmu,fpu,usb,eth,pfpu,vide,midi,dmx,irac97), add namuru (just one channel)02:36
kristianpauland yes, i finally upgrade to 13.3 ise,02:36
kristianpauland no else i think02:36
kristianpauljojoj http://excamera.com/sphinx/gameduino/02:37
wpwrakkristianpaul: bah, and then they chickened out and didn't implement the AVR as well02:47
kristianpauli cant found sources...02:47
kristianpaullekernel:  now milkymist.org redirect to the wordpress thing, wher is the old web archive??02:48
wpwrakthis has some stuff: http://milkymist.org/wp/for-developers/02:53
wpwrakbut not everything of the old material02:55
kristianpaulnp, archive.org have it :)02:55
wpwrakwell, some of the old things were useless. like quasi-empty PDFs. maybe the cleanup is still in progress02:55
wpwrakhehe ;-))02:55
kristianpaulcleaning is good02:56
rohbreaking links is bad. he should add rewrites03:08
kristianpaulpages still there, just no acesible from the wp03:10
rohe.g. where are the schematics?03:10
rohah... http://milkymist.org/mmone/03:11
kristianpaulanyway, changes are good, i just was used to get schametics and other links from thre :)03:13
lekernel_wpwrak: I wasn't planning to use any wacom stuff, but to clone their technology15:50
lekernel_the sensor is a mere PCB15:51
lekernel_with printed coils15:51
lekernel_it's like an array of printed and multiplexed RFID readers15:51
lekernel_you have an array for the X axis, and another one for the Y axis15:51
lekernel_nothing hard to source, it's just work ...15:52
wpwrakcloning is expensive for us :)15:58
wpwrakwe're low volume, so even "cheap" things are costly15:59
lekernel__it's just a 4-layer PCB to stick behind the screen, some mosfets, and a medium-low range ADC. the rest can be done by the FPGA...16:03
lekernel__(of course, this is a perfect case of the "let's stick an FPGA in there and worry later about what it does" problem *g*)16:03
GitHub30[milkymist] none pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/milkymist/milkymist/compare/dbcce91...36b1e0716:05
GitHub30[milkymist/master] softusb: accept everything but non-MIDI and system messages - Werner Almesberger16:05
GitHub30[milkymist/master] bios: make the LIBS as .PHONY - Xiangfu Liu16:05
GitHub30[milkymist/master] libfpvm: use C operator precedence - Werner Almesberger16:05
wpwrakhehe :)16:05
wpwraki'm also not so sure it works that easily through an LCM. don't you have to have the coils on top ? so that would mean to put them into the glass or some have transparent plastic circuit above the display16:07
lekernel__no, it seems to work OK with the coils behind16:08
wpwrakdoes the VJ really want to wield a pen ?16:08
wpwrakthe pen is mightier than the sword, but ...16:08
lekernel__those things have a range of a dozen centimeters anyway16:09
lekernel__the thickness of the LCM isn't important16:09
lekernel__what can cause more problems are interferences with the LCM electronics16:09
wpwraki was thinking more of shielding effects of all the metal in there16:09
lekernel__(the pressure is sensed on the pen, which sends the information wirelessly to the tablet)16:09
wpwrakcan you source pens ?16:10
lekernel__yes... or just make them. not excessively hard either...16:10
wpwrakalso, in some cases, a simple touch screen can emulate pressure via duration16:11
lekernel__the most simple form is a capacitor, a coil and a switch16:11
wpwrakthere are also fancier techniques that give you pressure directly from a touch screen. might be patented, though16:11
wpwrak(make them) without them looking "cheap" ? :)16:12
kristianpaulmost of branded pens looks cheap afaik16:12
wpwrakbut i can't really imagine a pen-based interface to be suitable in the heat of a performance16:13
wpwrakthat's more a studio thing16:13
kristianpaulopen source vision in the other hand ;-)16:14
wpwrakand i don't think most studios will be very interested in anything that's not 1080p and so on. there's always the tendency to use the best technology available, to be able to reuse the material in a few years16:15
lekernel__did I say it wouldn't be 1080p? :)16:15
wpwrakyes ! vision ! where's that ?16:15
wpwrak1080p ? not in M2 :)16:15
lekernel__well, not that wacom thing either :)16:16
lekernel__that's for the very long term16:16
wpwrakin M3, with terahertz RAM with optical interconnect, hey, why not ;-)16:16
lekernel__DDR3 would be sufficient already ;)16:17
wpwrakwell, let's focus on filling the exoskeleton for now. enough work waiting there already.16:17
wpwrakbut vision is a good point. that's something that would add a lot of value and should be possible. visikord-style16:18
kristianpaullekernel__: is it too hard add more instructions to pfu?16:19
kristianpauli havent check source yet, just asking quick and dirty here :)16:19
kristianpauli noticed your apoint about a second lm32 is just another slow cpu, so i want reconsider the power of multiple pfu or how customize it for specific task16:19
lekernel__I'm for the dataflow HLS approach, not layers of reconfigurable stuff over layers of reconfigurable stuff16:20
kristianpaulah, you made the java thing to work finally? :-)16:25
kristianpaulor get back to myHDL ?16:25
wpwrakfor vision, how about a camera pixel path element that "listens" to an NxM matrix in the pixel stream. for each pixel, it differentiates, does a bandpass filter, followed by a per-pixel hysteresis and maybe an overall quorum. that would then become a signal to the LM32 and from there it could go into a PFPU variable16:25
lekernel__neither are suitable for what I want to do, so I'm building my own16:25
lekernel__wpwrak: what do you mean "differentiate"? compare with the previous value?16:26
wpwrakwell, in a first step, it could be just an array of thresholds16:27
wpwrakone issue would be slow changes, like ambient illumination16:28
wpwrak(array of thresholds) with 1x1 being an option ;-)16:28
lekernel__the whole thing would certainly work well with dataflow synthesis :)16:32
kristianpaulbtw xula/xess seems to be working on a spartan6 board, so here is other coming alternative for milkymist soc development hack and fun16:35
GitHub173[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/cd8544c7581d8df8f513ef4b920e79a4ef3ba8be21:30
GitHub173[migen/master] Verilog generator - Sebastien Bourdeauducq21:30
GitHub143[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/e099f4d52f60511a9016d7e9489124956d3a73da21:45
GitHub143[migen/master] Reset insertion - Sebastien Bourdeauducq21:45
GitHub198[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/5acf2e169fe963092a1ab26d9ec6f7a341cc331122:43
GitHub198[migen/master] Examples folder - Sebastien Bourdeauducq22:43
GitHub61[migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/458cfc862325e256706d70eb7ee6f5fa012668a923:20
GitHub61[migen/master] CSR bus definitions - Sebastien Bourdeauducq23:20
--- Mon Dec 5 201100:00

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