aw_ | wolfspraul, here last one customer bought from Taipei she wanted me to prepare some video files for them. they are preparing to show this Milkymist One in next week in Brasil. | 02:52 |
---|---|---|
wolfspraul | don't understand | 02:52 |
wolfspraul | :-) | 02:52 |
aw_ | so I need to prepare them firstly then cc to you. ;-) | 02:52 |
wolfspraul | "prepare some video files"? | 02:52 |
wolfspraul | sure sounds great | 02:52 |
aw_ | like retail box opening to understand how to use M1, this was done by Lekernel already. and some use case of applications we promoted. | 02:54 |
aw_ | so even Werner's great video yesterday. ;-) | 02:54 |
wolfspraul | so you send them a collection of links to videos? | 02:55 |
aw_ | yes | 02:55 |
wolfspraul | alright :-) | 02:55 |
aw_ | also includes our official site, she told me that if someone in the conference may ask to buy. ;-) | 02:55 |
wolfspraul | ok | 02:56 |
wpwrak | hmm, just did a cvs update and re-applied my quilt stack. the rtems folks don't seem to be in much of a hurry to fix those bugs. or is there a hidden branch where they keep all the goodies ? | 08:07 |
wpwrak | lekernel: soc11_2.diff should also go on my stack, right ? | 08:09 |
lekernel | yes | 08:20 |
wpwrak | added, thanks ! | 08:23 |
wpwrak | by the way, how are we building rtems these days ? my approach is rtems cvs plus my patch stack. lekernel, xiangfu_, is what you use equivalent ? | 08:27 |
lekernel | same | 08:28 |
wpwrak | and a question about instrumenting the SoC for "exporting" signals: what do you use ? do you pass things through the hierarchy, do you use fpga_editor, something else ? | 08:36 |
lekernel | I don't have a logic analyzer, so I don't usually do that | 08:39 |
wpwrak | ah, i see. well, even with the scope it may be useful | 08:40 |
lekernel | a good way to do it would be a little script that manipulates the FPGA using XDL to reroute any net to I/O | 08:42 |
wpwrak | hmm. script sounds good. i was pondering the idea of a script that edits the sources. but hacking a later stage would have its advantages, too. with xdl, do you mean the file format or the program called xdl ? | 08:44 |
wpwrak | (or both ?) | 08:44 |
wpwrak | grmbl http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Implementation/XDL-File-Format/td-p/27824 | 08:45 |
wpwrak | "As far as I know, there's nothing public about the XDL format" :-( | 08:45 |
wpwrak | and so the reverse engineering begins ... again ... | 08:46 |
lekernel | nah but it's super simple | 08:48 |
lekernel | and regarding the question in the forum, you unroute the net by removing all pip entries | 08:49 |
lekernel | you add the pin of the I/O site | 08:49 |
lekernel | and you run PAR again to re-establish the connections. it will also do the timing analysis on that modified net. | 08:50 |
wpwrak | what does the last item on inpin/outpin mean ? C3, O, DOB4, ... ? | 08:50 |
lekernel | it's the name of the pin within the site | 08:51 |
lekernel | e.g. an IOB site has multiple pins for input, output, tristate enable, etc. | 08:51 |
wpwrak | aaah, so it's always O. excellent :) | 08:51 |
lekernel | I told you it was easy :) | 08:52 |
wpwrak | does the order of things in the .xdl file matter ? | 08:53 |
lekernel | what is a little annoying is finding the good configuration options for the IOB, but you can simply copy and paste from a working design | 08:53 |
lekernel | not afaik | 08:53 |
wpwrak | yeah, copy and paste rules :) | 08:53 |
wpwrak | wonderful. about running par, if i just do it between system.ncd and system-routed.ncd, no extra par run should be necessary, correct ? | 08:56 |
lekernel | there's better than that | 08:57 |
lekernel | you modify system-routed.ncd and you unroute the only net you have modified | 08:57 |
lekernel | then PAR will only route one net, which takes only a few seconds (most of them spent loading the bloated libraries) | 08:57 |
lekernel | in system.ncd there are no pips at all (everything's unrouted) | 08:58 |
wpwrak | system.ncd just looks like a simple netlist | 08:59 |
wpwrak | and what's a pip ? :) | 08:59 |
wpwrak | hmm, the pips look more difficult. let's keep that for another day. | 09:03 |
wpwrak | hmm. "inst" has a mysterious RIOB_X37Y124 (for dbg_rx_active going to G17). and i found another, | 09:09 |
wpwrak | git dbg_rx_pending going to G16 | 09:09 |
wpwrak | maybe that's the N/P pairs ... | 09:09 |
wpwrak | yeah. | 09:10 |
lekernel | pips are programmable switches that establish the physical connections between the site pins, by jumping from wire to wire | 09:22 |
wpwrak | eek. i won't touch these :) | 09:22 |
lekernel | it's not hard | 09:23 |
lekernel | remove all pips from the net | 09:23 |
lekernel | and re-run PAR | 09:23 |
lekernel | it will nicely generate a new set of pips that reconnects all the pins - including the IOB pin you added | 09:23 |
lekernel | note that if you don't remove all pips before, it will still work (will grow from the existing routed net), but the solution can be sub-optimal | 09:24 |
lekernel | (at least, I think so. probably depends on some par options, too) | 09:24 |
lekernel | but the safe way to go is remove pips before | 09:25 |
lekernel | btw, pip sets aren't even too hard to generate anyway, I have an implementation of the Lee algorithm that works (can be suboptimal timing-wise compared to the PAR algorithm, though) | 09:27 |
wpwrak | so you're ready to get rid of par ? :) | 09:42 |
xiangfu_ | wpwrak, (rtems patches) working on that now. :) | 10:13 |
xiangfu_ | now. the build script use the cvs, no patch at all. | 10:14 |
lekernel | xiangfu_: working on what? | 10:16 |
lekernel | adding wpwrak's patches to your build script? | 10:17 |
xiangfu_ | apply werner's patch in rtems. | 10:17 |
xiangfu_ | yes. | 10:17 |
lekernel | http://www.milkymist.org/wiki/index.php?title=Pending_RTEMS_PRs | 10:17 |
xiangfu_ | lekernel, btw, I will try to create a Makefile under milkymist.git. merge all .sh file to that Makefile. | 10:18 |
lekernel | what? | 10:18 |
lekernel | remove build_bios.sh, build_bitstream.sh etc.? | 10:19 |
xiangfu_ | yes. create a "makefile' instead. what do you think? | 10:19 |
xiangfu_ | like make bios | 10:19 |
lekernel | I don't care | 10:19 |
xiangfu_ | make bitstream | 10:19 |
xiangfu_ | ok. werner and me want that. :) hope I can finish that this weekend. then send a patch to mailing list. | 10:19 |
lekernel | xiangfu_: btw, I fixed your DMX/MIDI/video-in detection yesterday. it was only working when the variables were used in the constant part of the patch (i.e. when written a constant value. when used read or write in per-frame or per-vertex equations it didn't work) | 10:21 |
xiangfu_ | thanks. | 10:22 |
xiangfu_ | I have a small patch on makefile about build 'softwareusb' 'libhal' 'bios' , sent to mailing list. just let you know. | 10:23 |
lekernel | xiangfu_: btw, how do you feel about finding out why the RTEMS FTPd "root directory" option doesn't work? | 10:23 |
xiangfu_ | when modify softusb code. 'build_bios.sh' will not recompile the 'softusb', this small patch fix that. | 10:23 |
lekernel | I'd like to set it to /ssd, and also hide non-ssd directories in the GUI | 10:24 |
xiangfu_ | lekernel, yes. working on that when finish the compile patch stuff. | 10:24 |
Action: xiangfu_ want more Milkymist task :) | 10:25 | |
xiangfu_ | lekernel, just finish the nanonote release. so will have more time working on milkymist one. | 10:25 |
xiangfu_ | lekernel, btw. Jon try to sale the first Milkymist one in China mainland, we see. if all goes fine. we will try to setup tomorrow. | 10:26 |
xiangfu_ | lekernel, http://lists.milkymist.org/pipermail/devel-milkymist.org/2011-November/002208.html the small patch | 10:28 |
lekernel | I have already committed it, no? | 10:35 |
xiangfu_ | yes. committed. thanks. | 10:37 |
lekernel | wpwrak: you fixed this, right? https://github.com/milkymist/bugs/issues/10 | 11:40 |
wpwrak | yes, such devices should now work | 11:48 |
wpwrak | HMM. are my eyes betraying me or have i just found a bug in perl ? | 13:15 |
wpwrak | let's check those scoping rules again ... | 13:17 |
wpwrak | ah. no. all is normal. just funny scoping. phew. | 13:18 |
GitHub189 | [flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/cICrAg | 13:19 |
GitHub189 | [flickernoise/master] videoin: format selection - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 13:19 |
lekernel | you're doing that xdl thing in perl? | 13:41 |
wpwrak | yeah. takes about 0.064 seconds to read the whole .xdl file and search it for the terms we're interested in | 13:51 |
wpwrak | well, that's with a hot cache | 13:51 |
lekernel | anyone got a component (YPbPr) source to test? | 13:55 |
lekernel | seems we're going to have another run3 errata: the red and blue connectors do not match the usual component cable colors ... | 13:56 |
wpwrak | swapped ? or just way off ? | 13:56 |
lekernel | swapped | 13:56 |
lekernel | I'm not totally sure about this though, the adv7181 datasheet is unclear | 13:57 |
lekernel | best way is to test and see | 13:57 |
lekernel | The input signal that contains the timing information (H/V | 13:58 |
lekernel | syncs) must be processed by ADC0. For example, in the | 13:58 |
lekernel | YC input configuration, ADC0 should be connected to the | 13:58 |
lekernel | Y channel and ADC1 to the C channel. | 13:58 |
lekernel | ...and nothing about YPbPr | 13:59 |
lekernel | "just guess" | 13:59 |
lekernel | or, would it tell Pb from Pr automatically? is there a way to do that? | 13:59 |
wpwrak | hmm. does the codec also support true RGB ? if yes, are the connectors correctly colored for that ? | 14:00 |
wpwrak | and if 2x yes, why don't the YPtPr adapter's colors match ? :) | 14:01 |
lekernel | aah from the example design, seems we have to connect Pr to ADC1 and Pb to ADC2 | 14:03 |
lekernel | that's red to ADC1 and blue to ADC2 | 14:04 |
lekernel | which, from the M1 layout is AIN4 to ADC1 and AIN5 to ADC2 | 14:05 |
lekernel | yay! they're not swapped | 14:05 |
lekernel | and composite works on the 3 channels. I do not have a S-Video or component source to test ... | 14:13 |
lekernel | though I get grayscale when feeding the composite signal on Y when using S-Video or YPbPr, which is encouraging | 14:15 |
wolfspraul | lekernel: wait. does this mean ADC1/ADC2 are wired correctly or incorrectly? | 14:16 |
lekernel | everything seems correct so far | 14:16 |
wolfspraul | ok | 14:16 |
wolfspraul | do you want me to look into the sourcing of some cable? | 14:16 |
wolfspraul | your mail was a little confusing, but I only skimmed over it | 14:16 |
lekernel | consumer s-video uses a mini-DIN connector, not RCA jacks | 14:17 |
lekernel | so we need a passive adapter to use those sources | 14:17 |
lekernel | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Close-up_of_S-video_female_connector.jpg | 14:17 |
lekernel | we just need to connect directly these pins to the M1 video input jacks | 14:18 |
lekernel | two of them (plus ground) | 14:18 |
wolfspraul | so it's a female s-video like in that picture on one side, and 3 component rca male connectors on the other side? | 14:20 |
lekernel | no, 2 components (Y/C) | 14:20 |
wolfspraul | ok | 14:21 |
wolfspraul | how many should I get now? | 14:21 |
wolfspraul | just a few to start with? | 14:21 |
GitHub78 | [flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/9GZjyg | 14:22 |
GitHub78 | [flickernoise/master] cp: update video input settings when loading a performance file - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 14:22 |
lekernel | I don't know... for whom? | 14:23 |
wolfspraul | me neither :-) | 14:24 |
wolfspraul | for anybody who wants to connect an s-video source | 14:24 |
wolfspraul | how much would the image quality improve? | 14:24 |
wolfspraul | the cable you are linking to in your mail is this http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-video/video-cables/s-video-cables/s-video-to-dual-rca-cable-csv2rca10/prodCSV2RCA10.html | 14:26 |
wolfspraul | but it doesn't have a mini-din on one side | 14:26 |
lekernel | As S-Video maintains the two as separate signals, but still encodes two colour-difference signals into one chroma subcarrier, such detrimental low-pass filtering for luminance is unnecessary, although the chrominance signal still has limited bandwidth, and the colour crosstalk problem is subdued. The infamous dot crawl is eliminated. This means that S-Video leaves more information from the original video intact and offers an improved | 14:26 |
lekernel | image reproduction compared with composite video. | 14:26 |
lekernel | I believe the left connector on the picture is mini-DIN, maybe male... it says "s-video" ... | 14:27 |
wpwrak | maybe find out how much the cable is and if it's cheap but difficult to source outside of china, toss one in the box ? | 14:27 |
lekernel | "This cable can be used in several ways: "Connecting standard consumer S-Video to Separate Y/C RCA Connections" | 14:27 |
lekernel | this is exactly what we are doing | 14:27 |
wolfspraul | ah true, when I zoom in I can see mini-din, looks like male indeed | 14:28 |
wolfspraul | so you want male on the mini-din side, or female? | 14:29 |
lekernel | male is fine imo, so it can plug directly into the other appliance without an extra cable | 14:29 |
wolfspraul | ah ok, so the source (video camera etc) typically ends in a female mini-din? | 14:30 |
lekernel | yes | 14:32 |
lekernel | http://www.tutoriaux-excalibur.com/astuce-7/dupliquer-etendre-votre-bureau/dvi-vga.jpg | 14:32 |
lekernel | like that for example | 14:32 |
wpwrak | oh, lovely. when i try to convert the .xdl generated by xdl back to ncd, it spits out some errors | 14:35 |
lekernel | mh? shouldn't do that | 14:36 |
lekernel | what errors? | 14:36 |
wpwrak | ERROR:XDL:178 - parse error in config string around line 24810 in 'foo.xdl' around token ',' | 14:36 |
wpwrak | fun facts: the input file is ref.xdl, the output file is foo.ncd | 14:37 |
wpwrak | at these lines, there are things like inst "videoin/dma/burstmem/mem1_do,mem2_do_sliced_1" | 14:37 |
wpwrak | maybe it doesn't like commas in identifiers | 14:37 |
lekernel | I think so | 14:37 |
lekernel | but it shouldn't have put them in the first place | 14:38 |
lekernel | actually I have never seen a comma in any netlist or such | 14:38 |
wpwrak | the keyword here is "should" ;-) | 14:38 |
lekernel | this is weird | 14:38 |
wpwrak | maybe i can just rename them globally | 14:39 |
wolfspraul | lekernel: do you have a s-video source? | 14:39 |
lekernel | if you want I can open a xilinx webcase entry... they usually fix bugs sent through there | 14:39 |
lekernel | wolfspraul: no | 14:39 |
wolfspraul | somehow when I google I get the impression the output would be male | 14:39 |
lekernel | wolfspraul: connectors on appliances are female, and you use a male-male cable | 14:39 |
wolfspraul | maybe you then still have a female-female cable in between? | 14:39 |
wpwrak | (bug) that may be a good idea. could be that this is hiding other bugs. | 14:40 |
wolfspraul | what about a camera that has a male s-video fixed cable coming out? | 14:40 |
wpwrak | but lemme first see if i can find the offending identifiers in the sources | 14:40 |
lekernel | can you send me the .ncd? and the exact two commands that cause the problem? | 14:40 |
wolfspraul | we wouldn't be able to use that adapter cable with it | 14:40 |
wolfspraul | unless we had another female-female plug in between | 14:40 |
wolfspraul | so somehow I think we are better of with a female mini-din to 2*rca adapter, no? | 14:41 |
wolfspraul | because as you said the "appliance" (in our case the adapter cable) is female | 14:41 |
wpwrak | naw, just the first part. not the ,...sliced... | 14:41 |
lekernel | a good solution would be the equivalent of that: http://www.ilovediscount.fr/215-829-large/jack-35mm-stereo-male-vers-2-rca-femelles-fiche-adaptateur-jack-rca-audio-hifi-et-sono.jpg | 14:45 |
lekernel | with a female s-video and male RCAs | 14:45 |
wpwrak | lekernel: this should do the trick: xdl -ncd2xdl build/system.ncd tmp.xdl && xdl -xdl2ncd tmp.xdl out.ncd | 14:45 |
lekernel | not sure if it exists, especially with the right RCA pitch | 14:45 |
wpwrak | also happens with system-routed.ncd | 14:45 |
wpwrak | lekernel: the .ncd is just a regular M1 soc build, straight off git | 14:46 |
wolfspraul | ok, so we want female mini-din s-video on one side, and male RCA on the other side | 14:46 |
wolfspraul | got it | 14:46 |
lekernel | wpwrak: yes, same problem. i will open a xilinx bug report ... | 14:47 |
wpwrak | thanks ! | 14:47 |
lekernel | wolfspraul: the "long cable with male mini-DIN connector" is also good (and means one less thing to plug)... but it doesn't really matter | 14:53 |
wolfspraul | lekernel: yes but only if your source doesn't have a fixed male cable come out | 14:57 |
wpwrak | since we're already adding a DVI connector in M1rc4, maybe add S-Video in and avoid messy adapter cables ? | 14:58 |
lekernel | not worth it | 15:00 |
lekernel | so far, no one asked explicitly for S-Video :) it's only there because it represents < 10 lines of code | 15:06 |
wolfspraul | oh no, that's a lot of work | 15:15 |
wolfspraul | I much rather look for that external adapter first, especially since I haven't even done it yet | 15:16 |
wpwrak | ok :) | 15:16 |
xiangfu | there are many cables that S-Video --> 1 video RCA. under taobao.com. | 15:20 |
lekernel | xiangfu: as my email says, these cables are not suitable | 15:21 |
xiangfu | lekernel, yes. most of them are male. :( | 15:22 |
lekernel | no, the problem is they also convert S-Video to composite, which reduces quality | 15:23 |
xiangfu | http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=3635132815 | 15:24 |
xiangfu | http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=7967399356&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch8.taobao.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3D%25C4%25B8%25CD%25B7%2B%2Bs-video%26pid%3Dmm_14507416_2297358_8935934%26unid%3D0%26mode%3D63%26rt%3D1322234567193&ali_trackid=2:mm_14507416_2297358_8935934,0:1322234600_3k2_1809759045 | 15:25 |
xiangfu | http://img02.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i6/T1kmGtXXhFXXXio6g9_104109.jpg_310x310.jpg + http://img04.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i4/11152485/T2Ue4yXk4aXXXXXXXX_!!11152485.jpg | 15:25 |
xiangfu | is this ok? and I needs another two male - male RCA make it connect to M1. | 15:26 |
xiangfu | it's S-video --> 4 RCAs. | 15:26 |
lekernel | it's not S-Video, it's made for expansion ports of graphics cards | 15:27 |
xiangfu | is that one for audio. other three for video? just want to understand. | 15:27 |
xiangfu | lekernel, oh. | 15:28 |
lekernel | no, it generates composite and component from the expansion port of a PC graphics card | 15:28 |
wpwrak | the video dialog is getting complicated :) | 15:28 |
wpwrak | hmm. there are more problems: with the ncd -> xdl -> ncd: ERROR:PhysDesignRules:764 - Slew rate not set. Since it is used for output and its IO standard is LVCMOS33, IOB comp phy_rx_data<0>.OUTBUF needs a slew rate to be set. | 16:14 |
wpwrak | and the joke is not lost on me that this is actually in input | 16:14 |
wpwrak | s/in/an/ | 16:14 |
wpwrak | the .xdl also says so | 16:14 |
wolfspraul | lekernel: thanks for catching up with Don - and he replied! great! | 16:19 |
wolfspraul | until he stops by here - Don said he enjoyed using Milkymist One on his travels and it worked well and he has videos and patches to share with us soon... | 16:21 |
wpwrak | will be very interesting to hear how exactly he uses the M1 | 16:22 |
wpwrak | oh wait .. that's still from xdl. interesting. | 16:26 |
wpwrak | (xdl -xdl2ncd) | 16:27 |
GitHub155 | [flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/8SLDSw | 16:55 |
GitHub155 | [flickernoise/master] Keyboard shortcuts to switch between composite video sources: F1/F2/F3 to select green/blue/red inputs (respectively) - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 16:55 |
GitHub102 | [flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/kBYlmQ | 17:23 |
GitHub102 | [flickernoise/master] New patches - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 17:23 |
scrts | hm... whats the currency on taobao? | 21:22 |
wpwrak | whee. the madness works ;-) | 23:48 |
mwalle | wpwrak: hacking the xdl to tap signals? | 23:49 |
wpwrak | yeah | 23:50 |
kristianpaul | oh | 23:54 |
kristianpaul | tell us, tell us :-) | 23:54 |
wpwrak | let's see ... what shall i ask for in return ? | 23:55 |
wpwrak | maybe the soul of your firstborn ? | 23:55 |
--- Sat Nov 26 2011 | 00:00 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.9.2 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!