#milkymist IRC log for Monday, 2011-11-21

kristianpaulunload? there is a reason for that.. a also what's the fpga state after that unload..00:22
wpwrakits just in the standby loop00:27
wpwrakand no, the unload doesn't do anything really useful. except of course entering standby. so you can boot with a button press instead of having to force a boot (or power cycle, then button press)00:28
wpwraksigh. i don't think i can figure out what's going on here without changing the soc :-(00:44
wpwrakseems that CRC just takes too long. but i can't be sure if it's really that00:44
wpwrak*hmm* just found an interesting bug00:47
kristianpaulah yes, pld reconfigure is the "unload", for a moment i was thinking in something else00:49
wpwrakaw_: so ... seems that we have an agreement for the USB switch:01:38
wpwrak1) sebastien is no longer concerned about "gliches", as long as we make sure usb power is off at reset time. the fpga resets with pull-ups enabled. so an active-low enable would do the trick.01:39
wpwrak2) no need for 0 R series resistors01:40
aw_1) understood. ;-)01:40
aw_for 2) can you tell me more clearly about 0 R series resistors?01:41
aw_i've placed orders last week for 5 active-low switches and else parts we knew.01:42
wpwrakperfect01:44
wpwrak2) means that we can connect them to the FPGA. no 0402 footprints needed.01:44
wpwraki.e., "keeping it simple" :)01:45
aw_sorry, for 2) I reflashed my head, i understood it now. that one you'd pre-placed resistors for needs.01:45
aw_current rc3 the usb socket(J16/J20)'s pin1(VBUS) hole directly be connected with inside 5V, so I think I'll take usb sockets out firstly then so 'operation' on them. ;-)01:47
wpwrakyeah. not the easiest kind of rework :(01:52
wolfspraulwpwrak: let me ask about the leds for ports again01:58
wolfspraulwhich color?01:58
wpwraka color you can clearly see through the case01:58
wpwraki don't know what works well. i don't have the blue plastic :)01:59
wolfspraulsolomonic answer01:59
wpwrakyou should know what to expect ;-)01:59
rohwell.. atleast the led color is easy to change. no board layout changes needed ;)02:08
wpwrakunless you have very very specific requirements for the led :)02:12
roh__very__ ;)02:13
wpwrakyes :)02:13
wolfspraulroh: which color do you think would be good?02:14
wolfspraulor even different colors?02:14
wolfspraulone for in, another one for out?02:15
wolfspraulsome ports are both in and out :-)02:15
kristianpaulgrmbl, 33m42.515s to synthesize..02:16
rohwolfspraul: where should the leds go and what should they signal? are talking about 2 leds, one for each usb port only? of do you want to add led to every socket?02:16
wolfspraulhe02:19
wolfspraulI was trying to narrow this down but not very successful yet02:19
wolfspraulwe can just spray paint 20 leds across the board...02:19
wolfspraulWerner's idea was 'a led for every port'02:19
wolfsprauldoes that include the power socket? infrared? memory card?02:20
rohwell... not the worst idea ;) just difficult to place nicely on all sockets in a 'regular' pattern02:20
wolfspraulI think if we don't understand the purpose well it's hard to actually execute02:21
rohregular as in 'the same scheme for all port to led placing'02:21
wolfspraulthe goal is to make m1 look more active/alive?02:21
rohanother question is.. do we have enough free pins on the fpga or what are we talking about?02:21
wolfsprauldon't know, but last time I checked I think the answer was "we have a lot"02:22
wolfspraulnow that will go down a little in rc4, with dvi-i and the usb power switch02:22
rohok. so we need to check if routing is easy and possible or if it will complicate things too much. and if we can drive the leds directly or need extra driver-transistors02:23
wolfspraulwell02:23
wolfspraulfirst we need to understand the purpose of this exercise02:23
wolfspraulwe can also position the leds to form a 'M' on the board :-)02:23
wolfspraulI'll wait a little and think about it more.02:24
wpwrakwhat to indicate: demand, activity, problems02:24
rohdemand?02:24
wpwrakdemand = patch wants to use feature X but nothing seems to be connected02:24
wolfspraulahh02:24
wpwrakactivity = an aperiodic flash every now and then02:25
wolfspraulgood idea!02:25
wpwrakproblems = maybe periodically blink02:25
rohwell.. light up if it makes sense to connect something, flicker on activity, and regular blinking for errors?02:25
wolfspraulthen demand would be red02:25
wolfspraulred = something missing?02:25
wpwrakroh: see. it's intuitive ;-)02:25
rohforget colors. you can see lit up or not lit.02:25
wpwrakwolfspraul: you have a color filter in the the way. so red may not be red. or maybe it is :)02:25
wolfspraulroh: you mean because it goes through the light-blue acrylic?02:26
wpwrake.g., with the purple case, green is yellow :)02:26
rohi'd plan for green leds now, simply because they are cheap, and really light compared to the current. just the same type we use for the 3 leds in rc2 and 3 already02:26
rohwolfspraul: ack02:26
wpwrakgreen tend to be weak compared to other colors. but they probably go along well with the blue case, so in the end they may work better than bright red leds.02:27
rohack.02:27
wpwrak(some modern red leds are about as nasty as blue leds. at a fraction of the power :)02:28
wolfspraulso what now? same leds as we have now?02:28
rohjust dont use blue ones. looks cheap from my pov;)02:28
wpwrakblue also have inconvenient voltages02:29
rohwolfspraul: for now. remember.. we can always swap them easyily02:29
wolfspraulthen the idea is to indicate demand/activity/problems..02:29
wolfspraulthat means, one for:02:29
rohwell.. for green, red, yellow that is  ;)02:29
wolfspraul1. DMX (separate in and out?)02:29
wpwrakwolfspraul: you may want to get a few different colors and try what looks good02:29
wpwraki would try to have one led per connector02:30
wpwrakrgb is three connectors :)02:30
wolfspraul2*dmx, 2*midi02:30
wolfspraulthe video-in: 1 or 3?02:30
wpwrakpeople sticking wires into MIDI are perverts. they still get only one LED :)02:30
wpwrak302:30
wpwrakled-on-sd is "nice to have". sd in general is almost unusable in m1, but an activity indicator can't hurt02:32
wolfspraul1 led for midi?02:32
wpwrakpower ... why not. we already have one, but at a less intuitive place02:32
wpwrak1 led for each midi connector02:32
wolfspraulI don't think I want to touch those 3 leds that are there02:32
wolfspraulkeep compatibility etc.02:32
wpwrakled for IR ? definitely. unless you have infra-vision ;-)02:33
wpwrakyeah, let them be. also the three stooges^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hbuttons :)02:34
wolfspraul2*dmx, 2*midi, 3*video-in, power, 2*usb, ir, dvi-i, ethernet02:35
wolfspraul3 buttons as well?02:35
wolfspraulthat's 16 already02:35
wolfspraulSebastien will get a heart attack02:35
wpwraknaw, no leds on the buttons, i think02:35
wpwrakthat might get confusing :)02:35
wolfspraul1302:35
wolfspraulmemcard 1402:35
wolfspraulare we sure those thingies are cheap?02:36
wpwrakhe'll be happy to have an excuse for demanding a bigger fpga :)02:36
wolfspraulso let's try again02:36
wolfspraul2*dmx, 2*midi, 3*video-in, power, 2*usb, ir, dvi-i, ethernet, memcard02:36
wpwrak(cheap) depends on what specs you want :)02:36
wolfspraulall green, all the same one as what we have right now02:37
wpwrakwhat size are we looking for ? 0603 or 0402 ?02:37
wolfspraulI would pick the cheaper one unless there is an overriding factor02:38
wpwrakLTST-C190KRKT (nice bright red) costs you 5 cents if you buy a tape. others from the same family are similarly priced02:38
wpwrak(tape&reel)02:39
wolfspraulwhat we have now we bought for 9 cents02:39
wolfspraulhttp://www.farnell.com/datasheets/55768.pdf02:39
wpwrakso not super-cheap as resistors, but not really "expensive" either02:39
wolfspraul14*9=1.31 USD02:39
wpwrakah, super bright green02:40
wolfspraul060302:40
wolfspraulmaybe we can use the opportunity to cost-down a little :-)02:40
wpwrakhmm. marginally02:43
wpwrakhttp://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/APT1608SGC/754-1121-1-ND/174783802:43
wpwrakseems to be a close relative to the one you have02:43
wolfspraulare they switching to metric slowly?02:44
wolfspraul1608?02:44
wpwrak7.15 cents @ 100 at digi-key02:44
wpwrakapparently02:44
wolfspraulthat'll be a lot of work for many years, throughout the toolchain and machines etc.02:45
wpwrakthe japanese seem to like metric02:45
wpwrakus not so much02:45
wpwrakkingbright sound chinese02:46
wpwrakah, hq=tw, fab=cn :) http://www.digikey.com/Suppliers/us/Kingbright.page?lang=EN02:47
rohwpwrak: well.. wait for the end of the current money crisis.. i would really wonder if the us can continue to run non-metric alone with burma forever02:48
wpwrakright now, eu is doing its best to keep people from paying too much attention to the us. i hope merkel & co.  will get a medal of honor and for patriotic duty well beyond the call of duty. from obama ;-)02:50
wpwrakwell, or palin. whoever the successor02:51
roh;)02:51
xiangfuare you talking about add metric led to milkymist?03:06
wolfspraulthanks a lot, I added the LED proposal to http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_RC3_Known_Issues#Minor_errors_and_improvements03:06
wolfspraulroh and wpwrak - THANKS!03:07
wolfspraulI think it's concise enough now to translate to actions...03:07
wolfspraulthe "14 new leds proposal"03:07
wpwrakxiangfu: just a lot of LEDs, metric or not ;-)03:07
wolfspraulxiangfu: 'metric' is just the measurement unit of the smd package03:08
wolfspraulwhereas until now often the base unit is 1/1000th inch (25.4 mm)03:08
xiangfuwolfspraul, oh. thanks. I though it is like 16x16 led square lights.03:09
xiangfuon top of milkymist. :)03:09
wpwrakheh, not yet :)03:09
wpwrakmakes me remember the mystery led matrix of gta03 ;-)03:10
xiangfuoh. it's 'matrix' not 'metric'. sorry.03:11
kristianpaulrouting 16 LEDs.. in the botton? :-)03:12
wpwrakwe can add jumper wires ;-)03:13
xiangfuwolfspraul, there are already two led light inside the ethernet port.03:14
xiangfuok. I saw this 'Werner proposed adding LEDs to the ports to indicate'03:16
aw_wpwrak, i just draw manually a usb switch sch, let's check if i understood them exactly: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:M1rc4_usbswitch_design_verification_draft_sch_v1.JPG03:19
kristianpaulwpwrak: if you think in wires, could consider the already routed/populated exp header03:19
aw_wpwrak, i temporarily used J21 expansion header to implement.03:21
aw_two leds are independently so that's not hard-wired power status logic, cf. ben charging led ;-) so from fpga (s/w side)03:22
aw_wow..sorry that I didn't see the new proposals in RC3 Know issues, one line to mention leds for each connectors. phew~03:24
aw_wpwrak, hmm..seems that two pull-ups for FLGs must be connected to 3V3 not 5V. I was wrong i think. ;-)05:02
aw_wpwrak, a manual sch(draft) of reset circuit: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:M1rc4_resetcircuit_design_verification_draft_sch_v1.JPG05:38
aw_see if I interpreted it correctly. ;-)05:39
aw_if IO_L48N_1 connects a pull-up which is supposedly to be the same as R30(10K). But I still marked it as "TBD" and since an AND gate instead of diode which should not be haven current leakage acted like diode. so I marked C238 as 'DNP'.05:48
aw_if somewhere I was wrong, correct me. tks. ;-)05:48
wpwrakgood morning :) let's see ..10:18
lekernel_morningf10:19
lekernel_-f10:19
lekernel_wolfspraul: what about white LEDs?10:19
lekernel_also for the existing ones10:19
wolfspraulsure why not10:20
lekernel_or try UV LEDs with the fluorescent acrylic ;)10:20
wpwrakaw_: what would you think of putting a silo cap on the "inside" of the switch ? like the current 220 uF ?10:20
wolfspraullekernel_: you tell me10:20
lekernel_well... I was joking a bit. the fluorescent acrylic doesn't look nice anyway10:23
lekernel_but the white LEDs, why not10:23
lekernel_I think they should look nice with the light-blue case10:23
wpwraklekernel_: white LEDS have inconvenient voltages. they hover around 3 V, with large variations, e.g., 2.8-3.4 V10:24
wpwraklekernel_: they're also about 4x the price of green :)10:24
wolfsprauloh10:24
wolfspraul:-)10:24
lekernel_3.4V? that much?10:25
lekernel_wow10:25
wpwrakwhite and blue are greedy10:26
wpwrakthe 3.4 V was the cheapest i could find at digi-key: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/597-3901-830F/350-2340-1-ND/244477210:27
wpwrakthis one is a little nicer, 2.7-3.15 V at 5 mA: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/LTW-C194TS5/160-1839-1-ND/235624010:28
aw_wpwrak, please check the FLG's pull-ups resistors, i think they are connected to 3V3 not 5V. ;-)10:28
aw_wpwrak, mm...silo cap...10:29
wpwrakbut .. i wonder if you won't get large brightness variations with such a small drop. if you design for 20 mA at 2.7 V (30 Ohm), you'd get only 5 mA at 3.15 V10:29
lekernel_we can use the 3.3V or better 5V supplies10:29
lekernel_yes, that would be the problem10:29
lekernel_can we get away with the 5V supply and just a protection diode to limit the voltage to 3.3V when the FPGA isn't driving its output low?10:30
wpwrakaw_: (FLG) yes, better to keep it in the 3.3 V domain. i wouldn't trust 5 V enough to bring it near the FPGA :)10:31
lekernel_i.e. make the LED control signals active low, cathode of the LED to FPGA, anode to 5V, and protection diode to prevent 5V from reaching the FPGA when it's not driving its IO10:31
lekernel_of course, if Murphy takes care of this circuit, the FPGA can get damaged ...10:33
wpwrakthe protection would be tricky. zeners don't work at very low currents10:33
lekernel_nah, not zener10:34
lekernel_normal diode10:34
lekernel_and connected to the 2.5V or 3.3V supply, not ground10:34
wpwrakhmm. then you'd be close to the minimum diode drops for low currents. so you may have a non-zero current even if not driven10:35
lekernel_now the problem is the diode will still have 5V-2.5V/3.3V (minus protection diode forward voltage) when supposed to be off, and might still light a little10:35
wpwrakexactly :)10:35
lekernel_well... the proper way to do it is with external transistors. it's safer for the FPGA, too.10:35
wpwrakyes. and then my simple idea starts to get a little complex :)10:36
lekernel_hooking a small MOSFET is easy, no?10:36
lekernel_it's just one part more10:36
aw_lekernel_, the unexpected condition should be occurred is the reset duration from the ramp curve of 5V to 4.0V threshold. mmm...seems your idea is avoid of it.10:36
wpwrakN x 1 part more :)10:37
wpwraklekernel_: would you put pull-ups on the USB power switch enable signals, to catch the FPGA's outputs going Z ?10:38
lekernel_they shouldn't go Z10:38
lekernel_you can add a "DNP" resistor that we can use if we have problems... or for debugging10:39
lekernel_it would also serve as test point10:39
lekernel_aw_: how much is a small NMOS with ~30mA drain-source current?10:40
wpwrakmaybe populate them by default ? might deny us the joy of chasing problems, but .. :)10:41
wpwrakaw_: (reset) i think we want the WE# and CE0 pull-ups, even if they didn't affect my reset tests. that would be 4k7 each.10:42
wpwrakheh, if we want to keep R60, it should probably be pull-down ;-)10:44
aw_lekernel_, you mean like 2N7002 NMOS? it's about USD 0.01810:45
aw_even if it's not ~30mA but it's reference price i think. ;-)10:46
wpwrak9 cents if you buy 100 :)10:47
aw_wpwrak, R60 to pull down?10:47
wpwrakand that's SOT23-3. probably not what you want10:47
wpwrakSOT-323 starts at 15 cents at 100 units10:48
aw_wait...hehe..let's review all parts in reset circuit. ;-)10:49
aw_1. two pull-ups for FLASH WE#/CE0 to 4.7K10:49
wpwrakaw_: (r60) naw, you can keep it. it wouldn't do anything either way. maybe one day we want a open collector gate or whatever :)10:50
aw_2. I checked irc log, you thought R30 value needs to be determined while applying this AND gate. so it may not 10K.10:51
wpwrakhmm, i don't remember. what was the reason i gave ?10:52
aw_wpwrak, i see. I am collecting to put possible place holder in advance, if we think it needs pull down, then I may draw another resistor(pull down) marked TBD. ;-)10:52
aw_wpwrak, http://en.qi-hardware.com/mmlogs/milkymist_2011-08-27.log.html#t03:3810:54
aw_wpwrak, so I also marked C238 to be DNP. ;-)10:55
wpwrakah, R30 was about the reset chip. let's see ...10:55
wpwrakC238: good ! :) no voodoo caps ! ;-)10:56
aw_i guessed your m1 is still came with a real C238 and new APX803-44SAG10:56
aw_so yes, we knew when we use AND gate, we want to verify C238 and R30 value. of course the C238 now is DNP for surely. ;-)10:57
lekernel_so? mosfets and white LEDs on 5V?10:57
aw_so my next question is : the IO_L48_1's pull up I marked TBD firstly. ;-)10:57
wpwrakyes, i still have that critter there. but i also don't have the AND gate  :)10:58
aw_yes, we still keep C238 there, just DNP.10:58
wpwrakR30 = 10 kOhm sounds good11:01
GitHub111[milkymist] sbourdeauducq pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/r7Lu7g11:01
GitHub111[milkymist/master] flterm: make kernel image optional - Michael Walle11:01
GitHub111[milkymist/master] flterm: bump version number and fix print_usage output - Sebastien Bourdeauducq11:01
aw_how about that pull-up for IO_L48N_1? the same?11:01
GitHub149[milkymist] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/o1nfNQ11:02
GitHub149[milkymist/master] bios: fix initrd end pointer - Michael Walle11:02
wpwraklekernel_: seems to get a bit complex ...11:02
wpwrakaw_: IO_L48N_1 doesn't really need anything anymore. it had the pull-up because it was used as a wired-AND. so either remove or DNP.11:05
aw_wpwrak, okay...let's mark it as DNP for now. ;-)11:06
aw_updated: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:M1rc4_resetcircuit_design_verification_draft_sch_v1.JPG11:11
aw_so next for usb-switch circuit: seems still needs more discussions? ;-) complex if using mosfet. :)11:13
wpwrak(reset) looking good !11:14
wpwrak(usb switch) i'd treat the LEDs as a separate issue11:14
wpwrakwe also need to see about placement, etc.11:15
aw_what you're considering placement, is it related to luminance with different color acrylic color case?11:17
wpwraknaw, that's yet another issue :)11:17
wpwrakplacement is mainly about making it clear which led is associated with which port11:18
aw_even if yes, I'd still hope that can we settle down (usb switch) now?11:18
aw_hmm..are meaning to include the idea of led matrix for all related connectors?11:19
wpwraknot a matrix :) just one line doing to each :)11:20
wpwraks/doing/going/11:20
aw_wpwrak, hehe .:)11:21
wpwrak(usb switch) i'd add a silo cap and connect the pull-ups to 3V3. then i think it's fine. lemme check the connection to the FPGA ...11:21
wpwrakFLG1 to pin 3 ? :)11:22
aw_ha..good catch. i blinded though. ;-O11:23
aw_is pin 5. I'll update them after discussions. ;-)11:24
wpwrakthe rest looks good11:24
aw_wpwrak, could you describe more about your "aw_: what would you think of putting a silo cap on the "inside" of the switch ? like the current 220 uF ?"11:26
lekernel_wpwrak: the USB sample point change I proposed makes things worse (compared to my initial full-speed attempt). even that USB stick that passed the "set address" doesn't work at all anymore.11:29
aw_are you saying to add a capacitor at the 'input' of usb-switch. (i.e. pin2 add it beside that 1uF)?11:29
lekernel_trying with only your patches to compare ...11:29
lekernel_but it seems it receives 100% garbage now11:29
aw_wpwrak, are you saying that you want to add a 220uF beside(in front of) that 1uF for pin2 of usb-switch? sorry I tried to not misunderstand your idea. ;-)11:30
wpwraklekernel_: 100% garbage with my patches and with or without the sample point change ?11:32
wpwrakaw_: yes, so that the 5V rail has some more buffering11:33
wpwrakaw_: but you can try without it and measure how things go11:33
aw_wpwrak, we can add it to this draft first, then we measure them to compare while design verification stage. ;-)11:34
lekernel_wpwrak: with the sample point change. I'm testing without the change now ...11:36
wpwraklekernel_: in general, i'm seeing a lot of timing weirdness in USB when trying to add CRC checking. it may just be that CRC is too expensive. or maybe something else is going on. that may also affect operation without CRC.11:38
aw_(usb switch) temporarily updated : http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:M1rc4_usbswitch_design_verification_draft_sch_v1.JPG11:43
wpwrakaw_: excellent !11:45
aw_tks all inputs here. dinner time. ;-)11:46
wpwraklekernel_: i'll need more precise diagnostic signals. e.g., one that isn't modulated by rx/tx activity (like OE# is). and maybe even one that tells me when exactly EOP is indicated. because i'm having my doubts about the timing of that.11:51
wpwrakso i guess i;ll have to figure out how to synthesize that soc :-(11:52
wpwrakoh, and have you seen this critter ? http://www.usb.org/developers/whitepapers/siewp.pdf11:52
wpwraki read that some people at opencores think it's over-engineered11:53
lekernel_yes, I used this document to design the softusb core... it's even referenced in the source11:54
wpwrakah, cool11:54
lekernel_and all the opencores usb stuff has, of course, more bugs than a typical rainforest11:55
wpwrakyes. when reading their comments on it, i thought "consider the source" ;-)11:55
lekernel_things like bitstuffing not working near a EOP... hopelessly corrupts those packets11:55
lekernel_I tried to use the opencores stuff in a first version of softusb, but it has been, as usual, a waste of my time11:56
stekernfullspeed usb seems to work with it though11:59
stekern;)11:59
lekernel_oh, it works with our design too. see! my USB stick responds to the "set device address" message.12:00
wpwrak:)12:01
wpwrakwhich version of ISE is recommended ?12:01
lekernel_13.312:01
lekernel_wpwrak: no improvement without the sample point change ...12:02
wpwrakhmm. i guess i'll what it is when i have better instrumentation. right now there are a number of events where i can't really see when then happen or when they are handled.12:06
wpwraks/i'll/i'll see/12:06
stekernhehe, "seems to work" included a bit more than that, but I'm just being facetious12:08
wpwrake.g., i'm getting fun things like a flurry of RX timeouts if i add a delay after sending an ACK in the data phase of SETUP. that doesn't even begin to make sense :)12:14
wpwrak(that was in an attempt to move the CRC out of the receive loop)12:14
GitHub8[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/dG0hCw13:54
GitHub8[flickernoise/master] Use image loading library - Sebastien Bourdeauducq13:54
wpwrak3 GB, zzz .... i wonder, if they made DVDs smaller and networks slower, would people write more compact code ?14:40
GitHub158[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/88CA1w14:46
GitHub158[flickernoise/master] Reorganize files - Sebastien Bourdeauducq14:46
wpwrakstill compiles. phew :)14:49
wpwrakmy LV3 has reached argentina. let's see how long it takes for it to crawl through the system.15:02
kristianpaulwpwrak: what are you planning with ISE, implement your own logic analizer? tap some USB wires?15:32
kristianpauli guess TAP and let your scope/logic analizer make its work :-)15:32
wpwraktap some internal USB signals for now. making my own LA would be tempting, but probably a bit more work :)15:34
GitHub31[scripts] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/OrIy1g15:35
GitHub31[scripts/master] Update libjpeg to v8c - Sebastien Bourdeauducq15:35
lekernel_there's xilinx chipscope, but I never got it to work15:37
wpwrakrecord to FPGA RAM ? that may be what all those PC LAs use :)15:39
kristianpaullekernel_: but this chipscope how well works over jtag? had you seen it work?15:40
lekernel_yes, but it sends everything through JTAG... which is a good idea if it worked correctly15:40
lekernel_I also doubt the compatibility with our cable15:40
kristianpaulindeed15:40
wpwraksounds slow. i'd stream to DRAM and then to the PC via ether15:41
wpwrakmaybe make ether a little faster in the process ;)15:41
lekernel_of course... but then you need an existing DRAM infrastructure at least15:41
kristianpauletehr over tftp i think there is a lib in milkymist software for that15:41
lekernel_JTAG is 30MBps with our cable (6MBps with the xilinx one)15:42
kristianpauloh, wow15:43
kristianpaulsi15:43
wpwrakthat's user data ? or bit clock ?15:44
lekernel_bit clock15:44
lekernel_but you can define arbitrarily large scan chains in the FPGA, so user data is transferred with little overhead15:45
wpwrakhow bad is the protocol overhead in the transmission mode they use ?15:45
wpwrakah, that sounds good then15:45
lekernel_I don't know how chipscope does it... proprietary java software I won't touch without a 10-meter pole :)15:45
wpwrak;-))15:45
stekernI did this quick hack to avoid using chipscope: http://git.chokladfabriken.org/?p=trace_logger.git;a=blob;f=rtl/verilog/tracer.v;h=1c80abb727e4d0f9624de81014e455aa55d75f78;hb=3586cce68814fd4d9ec3af0466b532a0dcbd716815:55
lekernel_wpwrak: btw, I'm able to run the USB part at up to 77MHz16:05
lekernel_we can use 72MHz if needed16:05
lekernel_that's 6 cycles per USB bit time16:06
wpwrakkewl ;) but lemme see first what goes on at 48 MHz. let's now change too many parameters at once :)16:21
GitHub90[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/5V8_EA16:22
GitHub90[flickernoise/master] Update gitignore - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:22
GitHub90[flickernoise/master] File dialog: filter several extensions - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:22
GitHub90[flickernoise/master] System settings: allow JPG files as wallpapers - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:22
wpwraksweet. a tar file containing xz-packed zips. no ARC ? no cpio ? no rar ? not even binhex ? now i'm disappointed :)16:24
lars_xilinx ise?16:25
wpwrakaye16:26
wpwrakwell, tjere16:26
wpwrak's other stuff in there too16:26
wpwrakso i have to install the WebPACK. not the default choice, "ISE Design Suite: System Edition" ?16:30
wpwrak"acquire or manage a license key" is set by default. do i need this ?16:34
lars_just installed 13.3 today too and had one problem with their settings64.sh16:35
lars_wpwrak: yes16:35
lars_you can get a webpack license by email16:35
lars_i think16:35
wpwrakokay. let's see what happens ...16:36
wpwraki should probably sprinkle a bit of underberg on my disk, do help it digest all that bloat16:39
wpwraklars_: have you been able to solve the settings64.sh problem ?16:40
wpwrakwhere do i apply for the license ?16:56
wpwraklet's see if there is anything in the licensing solution center ...16:57
wpwrakthat is, if it ever loads ...16:58
GitHub24[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5uXyhQ16:58
GitHub24[flickernoise/master] pixbuf: basic support for JPEG - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:58
lekernel_wpwrak: http://www.xilinx.com/support/licensing_solution_center.htm17:08
wpwrakthanks. just went through the process. it showed me no licenses with konqueror, but i seem to have made it with firefox. let's see ...17:10
wpwraknow .. build_bitstream ? :)17:13
wpwraklet's see what happens .. "Building FPGA bitstream..."17:14
wpwrakxst running. do any of these tools need additional encouragement to use multiple cores ? (like make's -j option)17:15
wpwrakngbuild ...17:18
wpwrakmap .. running out of nowhere. od.17:22
wpwrakah, common.mak17:23
lekernel_wpwrak: if you want to cut synthesis times in USB debugging cycles, look at boards/milkymist-one/rtl/setup.v17:31
lekernel_note that removing some stuff will sometimes prevent flickernoise from working at all, while the demo firmware fails more gracefully17:32
lars_wpwrak: (settings64.sh issue) yes17:33
lars_though i'm not sure whether it's a bug in my shell or their script17:33
lars_there is a for loop which reads like 'for i in $var ...'17:34
lars_and $var contains a list of directorys separated by space17:34
lars_but the loop only runs once and $i contains the whole $var17:34
lars_my fix was to replace $var with `echo $var`17:35
lars_wpwrak: multi-core support? whats that?17:36
GitHub104[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xa4nZQ17:37
GitHub104[flickernoise/master] JPEG loader: error handling - Sebastien Bourdeauducq17:37
mwallehi17:50
mwallelekernel: any comments on my bigger patch series?17:50
lekernelhaven't thoroughly looked at it yet... but I committed your small ones, thanks!17:59
mwallelekernel: the new flickernoise snapshots includes the driver for the new uart, right?18:00
lekernelthose on milkymist.org don't18:02
mwallehttp://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-11212011-1611/ for example18:02
lekernelhopefully they do, but those are built by Xiangfu...18:04
mwallelekernel: do you have one, which you are sure thats included? i'd like to test qemu-1.0rc218:05
lekernelmh, I don't see any new patches in his script directory. so it's probably not included, and neither are wpwrak's fixes which aren't committed to RTEMS CVS yet18:06
lekernelsure18:06
lekernelmwalle: mailed18:10
mwallelooks much better18:13
mwallealthough rendering isnt working18:13
lekernellet me check that I didn't break it ...18:19
lekernelI did18:20
lekernelmoment ...18:20
lekernelnew mail coming soon18:23
mwallethx :)18:23
mwallelekernel: ok line drawing is working, but are you able to return to the gui using esc or right mouse button?18:36
lekernelyes18:47
mwallelekernel: http://git.rtems.org/rtems/tree/c/src/lib/libbsp/lm32/shared/milkymist_ac97/ac97.c in read_cr() are you waiting for crrequest irq first?19:01
mwallelekernel: and could it be that it is not possible to return to the GUI if there is no audio device?19:03
wpwrakthe whole thing took 25 minutes. a bit slow, but okay. and the best thing: it boots ! ;-)19:13
mwallewpwrak: only 25 minutes? :)19:16
wpwrakhmm. 218 warnings from Bitgen, 242 warnings frmo Par, 224 warnings from map, 7 warnings from NGDBUILD, 703 warnings from xst19:18
wpwrakhmpf. xst diagnostics include a "table of contents". i somehow also remember compilers on early mainframes being rather chatty about what they were doing. thinking of it, they were also very slow. maybe there's a connection. if you can't compile it quickly, make a big fuss about all the little things you did ;-)19:23
wpwraklars_: seems that the loop problem didn't do anything to me19:24
lars_wpwrak: did you actually use the settings64.sh script?19:34
wpwrakyes. i think it sets up environment variables, no ?19:35
lars_yes19:35
lars_ok, so it's my shell that is broken19:35
wpwrakmy shell is /bin/bash 4.1.5(1)-release19:36
wpwrakto make things more interesting, /bin/sh is dash (ubuntu's choice, not mine)19:37
kristianpaullekernel: are you around?19:43
wpwrakhmm 12 minutes without most of the peripherals19:46
Artyomkristianpaul: I think that even if there is no signed div/mul operations they can be easily implemented in software.19:47
kristianpauli wonder is it is implemented in milkysmt libc19:48
kristianpauland yes there is hardware support for div/mul19:48
Artyomyes, I've seen it :)19:48
kristianpaullekernel: you have a demo or posible math opertation that milkymist libc can do? or any know limitations?19:49
Artyombtw kristian you mentioned that not every terminal program works with bios. I've noticed it ;) Do you know why is it so?19:55
kristianpaulah yes, long history19:57
kristianpauli think there is a missing or extra carriage return19:57
kristianpaulso so far i know just flterm (located in the tools folder) and gtkterm handle it19:57
kristianpaulwhy exactly this, well lekernel seems very pick in what he code :')19:58
wpwrakkristianpaul: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/neocon/ holds the answer to all your desires :) (option -c)20:29
kristianpaulONLCR ;-)20:32
kristianpaulnice20:33
kristianpaul!!20:33
wpwrak(not that flterm would be such a horrible choice. though its use of ^C is a bit ... unusual :)20:36
wpwrakhmm, kicking out ether and memcard only saves 50 seconds. well, better than nothing20:40
wpwraklekernel: all i care about for now is to get into the BIOS. there, i can already see enough of the drama unfold20:41
mwallewpwrak: are you benchmarking all possible combinations? :b20:41
wpwraknaw, just removed the ones that looked exposed for killing. then tried the rest. sometimes, things that are a little hidden are such for a reason :)20:42
mwallewpwrak: is gdb and new uart really working reliable for you?21:58
mwallenever seen odd timeouts?21:59
wpwrakdo we use EDK or PLANAHEAD,  ?22:01
wpwrakmwalle: i didn't use it much. just fired it up to check the NULL pointer detection and to confirm to you that it works22:02
wpwraklet's see how things go with a reduced setup22:14
mwalleSending packet: $m0,4#fd...[+]Ack22:33
mwalledoh!22:33
mwallelekernel: can we put an enable signal to the bus error comparator? that gdbstub can disable it?22:35
wpwrakhmm, where are signals assigned to physical pins ?22:36
mwallewpwrak: ucf file22:36
mwalleboards/milkymist-one/synthesis/system.ucf or sth like that22:37
wpwrakaah, boards/... thanks !22:37
wpwrakpretty hardcore - from symbolic name straight to ball position ;-)22:40
lekernelwpwrak: we are using neither EDK or planahead23:22
lekerneljust the basic tools in command line23:22
lekernelmwalle: yes we can, but why?23:23
wpwraklekernel: good. here's a sanitized version of the settings script: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/m1/tools/xse-sane-init6423:32
wpwrak(i wonder if xse is a valid acronym in xlinxverse. i think i saw it somewhere. well, x* is xilinx :)23:32
mwallelekernel_: have a look at the cover letter mail, gdbstub has to disable the bus erros in case it reads from the first 512kb23:33
mwallegn823:35
--- Tue Nov 22 201100:00

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