| terpstra | #scala | 11:18 |
|---|---|---|
| terpstra | ups =) | 11:18 |
| kristianpaul | ha, interesting http://www.ohwr.org/projects/wishbone-gen/wiki/Wbgen2_ram it seems can handle clock domains for me :) | 11:18 |
| kristianpaul | hey terpstra ! :) | 11:18 |
| terpstra | hi | 11:18 |
| lekernel | hi terpstra, welcome back :) | 11:19 |
| lekernel | were you at icalepcs? | 11:20 |
| terpstra | yep | 11:20 |
| terpstra | but not for the workshops on sunday | 11:20 |
| lekernel | I also hanged around a bit on the next days, but I missed you... | 11:24 |
| lekernel | the industrial exhibition was interesting :) | 11:24 |
| terpstra | did you see the workshop on DSLs ? | 11:24 |
| terpstra | tutorial* | 11:24 |
| lekernel | I learned about ADCs, diamond-based neutron detectors, high precision piezo drives and 1.2nm position encoders | 11:25 |
| lekernel | no | 11:25 |
| lekernel | did you? | 11:26 |
| terpstra | yes, i'm learning MPS and scala as we speak | 11:26 |
| lekernel | "Scala is fully interoperable with Java." | 11:29 |
| lekernel | hum :-) | 11:29 |
| lekernel | is that a selling point? *g* | 11:29 |
| terpstra | it depends what you want | 11:30 |
| terpstra | scala is about as high level as languages get | 11:30 |
| lekernel | MPS = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBrains_MPS ? | 11:32 |
| terpstra | yes | 11:32 |
| lekernel | also java-based... hum | 11:33 |
| terpstra | no | 11:33 |
| terpstra | MPS's GUI is java based | 11:33 |
| terpstra | the code it generates can be C | 11:33 |
| terpstra | or something else | 11:33 |
| terpstra | the cool thing about MPS is that you aren't editing one language or even text | 11:34 |
| terpstra | they call it a "projective editor" | 11:34 |
| terpstra | which means it represents its AST as text which you type as normal, but really you are operating on the AST | 11:34 |
| terpstra | that means your code can include tables, flow charts, ambiguous grammer, etc -- and it all works | 11:34 |
| lekernel | is it a bit like lisp macros? | 11:49 |
| terpstra | no | 11:52 |
| terpstra | this "projective editor" concept is really something new | 11:53 |
| terpstra | scala was also quite popular at icaleps... it supposedly unifies OOP and FP. as a FP programmer who has to work with OOP folks, I am seeing if it is a nice middle ground =D | 11:54 |
| lekernel | looks like a lot of clicking | 12:01 |
| wpwrak | compromise-driven programming ? :) | 12:08 |
| terpstra | http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Are-We-There-Yet-Rich-Hickey | 12:50 |
| terpstra | excellent talk! | 12:50 |
| lekernel | what's so great about Java? frankly (and sorry for that) I would describe it as some over-marketed junk that is merely about combining the disadvantages of compiled and interpreted languages | 13:02 |
| lekernel | so I'm a little dubious when I see programming language talks from people who enjoy Java :) that's just a superficial first reaction of course | 13:03 |
| terpstra | i have never liked java | 13:41 |
| terpstra | but i'm not a bigot either :-P | 13:41 |
| lekernel | grmbl. recording v4l video sources is amazingly complicated | 14:58 |
| lekernel | the GUI programs are riddled with bugs and the command line is a mess | 14:58 |
| roh | lekernel: well.. i simply have the pov: 'my life is interresting enough to be bored by java' ;) | 17:56 |
| roh | about v4l, make sure you read recent specs, not v4l1 from the stoneages.... v4l2 cleaned some things up and added compressed video formats | 17:57 |
| lekernel | well, I finally got it to work, with a multi-line gstreamer command ... | 17:58 |
| roh | ;) | 17:58 |
| roh | yeah. but in the end it IS kinda lots of details neccessary | 17:58 |
| lekernel | now I understand a bit better why so many artists have Macs :-) | 17:59 |
| roh | that doesnt help much ;) believe me.. i work in a house full of artists | 17:59 |
| lekernel | at least connecting a TV card and capturing a video file (including synchronized audio) works out of the box, no? | 18:00 |
| lekernel | without kilometer-long commands, GUI programs crashing, etc. | 18:00 |
| roh | no. | 18:00 |
| roh | only if you buy a expensive 'made for mac' product. which is like .. ever 100st tv grabber | 18:00 |
| roh | so basically you buy more support upfront (if you get it or not) .. the products IS more expensive than the 99 other grabbes which work with win32 and linux | 18:02 |
| roh | eh are | 18:02 |
| lekernel | you have to take into account your time investment, I have wasted some 3 hours already on this | 18:02 |
| roh | lekernel: also.. mac products only do ONE usecase. | 18:03 |
| roh | if you try something else you are completely on your own, like on win32 or linux. | 18:03 |
| roh | my guess is: you try somthing where there is no mac product | 18:03 |
| roh | after all.. who does videocapturing nowadays? its all digital or has hw compressors | 18:04 |
| roh | only geeks and professionals (who know what they are doing and use professional equipment) | 18:04 |
| lekernel | I wouldn't expect a DV/Firewire camera to work any better on Linux :-) | 18:05 |
| roh | heh.. you would be surprised | 18:05 |
| roh | i tried getting one to work with some win32 tool from adobe once... didnt work | 18:05 |
| lekernel | the mess I've been through is mostly because of userspace bugs and shortcomings | 18:06 |
| roh | plugged it into a linux pc and installed kino, klicked 'connect' and i could remore control and copy stuff of the tape and back like i wished immediately | 18:06 |
| roh | sure.. there are expensive mac tools i guess who do that. but i dont have them, i dont want to pay for them and i for sure do not want to select tools by vendors ideologic noncompatibilites anymore. | 18:07 |
| roh | lekernel: heh. did you write up which ones? blog about such stuff (in a constructive manner).. or write up bugreports. atleast we can help make it better | 18:08 |
| mwalle | lekernel: will the dvi out use the IOs which are currently available at the expansion headers? | 18:10 |
| lekernel | mwalle, probably not, we need those special I/Os that support TMDS and they're on a different bank IIRC | 18:11 |
| mwalle | TMDS? differential ios? | 18:11 |
| lekernel | yes | 18:11 |
| lekernel | for DVI-D | 18:11 |
| mwalle | i guess they are unrouted on rc0 :) | 18:11 |
| lekernel | they're unrouted on all boards | 18:12 |
| roh | nice. sure you can use them without line drivers? | 18:12 |
| lekernel | roh, seems so | 18:12 |
| roh | we should do some tests to make sure before rc4 | 18:13 |
| lekernel | seems pretty difficult as those pins are buried under the BGA :) | 18:13 |
| roh | in the end... people connect really long cables with a lot of capacitive load to that | 18:13 |
| lekernel | we'll just check datasheets | 18:13 |
| roh | hm.. do you have a spartan develboard which has them routed? | 18:13 |
| lekernel | no | 18:13 |
| roh | do you know of one? maybe i can borrow the right board | 18:14 |
| lekernel | I don't even have any screen that supports DVI or HDMI | 18:14 |
| stekern | roh: I've got a (spartan6) devboard with and without line drivers, a guy with a similar board did some tests comparing them, he didn't notice any big difference | 18:14 |
| lekernel | there you go :) thanks stekern | 18:14 |
| lekernel | stekern, got the schematics of the devboard without the line drivers? | 18:18 |
| stekern | lekernel: sure, wait I'll dig them up | 18:18 |
| stekern | meanwhile, here is the post where he is speaking about his test: http://rubidium.dyndns.org/pipermail/fpga-synth/2011-April/001667.html | 18:19 |
| stekern | schematic: http://www.digilentinc.com/Data/Products/ATLYS/Atlys_C2_sch.pdf | 18:20 |
| lekernel | thx | 18:21 |
| roh | stekern: thanks | 18:22 |
| lekernel | so this board has two HDMI outputs, one with line driver and one without? | 18:22 |
| roh | i was just a bit cautious... i lost multiple graphicscards to bad drivers | 18:22 |
| lekernel | drivers? | 18:22 |
| roh | some ati, basically all matrox cards | 18:22 |
| lekernel | you mean the driver inside the graphics card got damaged? | 18:23 |
| roh | line drivers on dvi get worse over time and fail/limit bandwith | 18:23 |
| roh | inside the asic | 18:23 |
| stekern | actually, I think it has three, 2 with line drivers and one without. But I might remember wrong | 18:23 |
| lekernel | stekern, there's one input too | 18:23 |
| stekern | I've only tested the output with driver | 18:23 |
| roh | it starts slow with 'no 1920x1600 on high refresh anymore' .. and in the end you can drive vga through 20cm of cable but it fails to sync on 120cm | 18:23 |
| lekernel | mh, actually the unbuffered one is called "PMODA"... what's that? | 18:24 |
| stekern | ah, yeah, that's how it was 2 line in and 2 line out | 18:24 |
| stekern | PMODA is digilents extension "standard", there is a hdmi connector in parallell with that | 18:24 |
| lekernel | http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/application_notes/xapp495_S6TMDS_Video_Interface.pdf | 18:25 |
| lekernel | "use of the low-cost TMDS buffer TMDS141 from Texas Instruments to offer additional signal clean-up and ESD protection up to 6 kV" | 18:26 |
| lekernel | and TMDS output is only available in banks 0 and 2 | 18:28 |
| lekernel | with VCCO=3.3V... | 18:32 |
| lekernel | on M1 we have plenty of suitable I/Os available in bank 2 | 18:33 |
| lekernel | unfortunately they're on the opposite side of the BGA, so there can be slight routing difficulties | 18:36 |
| lekernel | bank 0 is potentially easier to route, but there's only one I/O left there | 18:47 |
| lekernel | hmm... are the 50 ohm series resistors necessary? | 19:59 |
| wpwrak | hmm, http://rubidium.dyndns.org/pipermail/fpga-synth/2011-April/001667.html only talks about frequency but not about cable length | 20:49 |
| --- Wed Oct 19 2011 | 00:00 | |
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