#milkymist IRC log for Thursday, 2011-08-11

Action: xiangfu just finish grab the video by VGA-->SVIDEO--> USB grab. uploading to wiki..10:17
scrts2maybe someone knows whats the alternative of verilog parameter in vhdl?10:47
larscscrts2: generics10:50
scrts2which type? integer?10:51
larscwhatever type you want it to be10:52
scrts2hm, well interesting10:54
scrts2in verilog, You can set parameter foobar = 1;10:55
scrts2in vhdl it has to have a type10:55
larscit quite consistent with how you declare signals and variables11:01
wolfspraulwpwrak: xiangfu uploaded the first video through the multiple data converters... http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Lekernel_-_Vibrant_Plasma_Streams.fnp.ogv14:11
wolfspraulif it's better than the ones taken with camera on tripod, then it's not much, imho14:11
wpwraklet's see ...14:13
Action: wpwrak curses mediawiki calling HTML files .ogv14:14
wpwraki think the video has a lot more red than anything i've seen before. so it already proves that it's RGB not only GB ;-)14:17
wpwrakbut yes, stronger colors would be nice. isn't there anything that has just saturated colors, with high contrast ?14:18
kristianpaul(new video) better shape, and yes colors are a bit shy :)14:23
AlarmIs there an update scripts flickernoise?15:56
emmanuel-cccIf anyone has questions for Sebastien at CCC, either ask them on the channel or /msg me with them17:59
Fallenounice talk from Sebastien :)18:11
FallenouI think he talked too fast though18:11
Fallenoumaybe hard for some people to understand at such a pace18:11
kristianpauldamn i lost another talk again :(18:15
FallenouYes it is18:15
Fallenouit was live a few minutes ago18:15
kristianpaulthere are no more milkymsit rlated events?18:16
kristianpaullike a workshop about how to make a core with DMA support or suchs ;-D ?18:17
kristianpaulFallenou: you cathcup question senssions?18:18
FallenouI watched the entire live : talk + questions18:19
Fallenouthere has been a few questions yes18:19
Fallenouand a demonstration with video input and effects18:19
kristianpaulworth to mention here (questions)18:20
Fallenoua question about kinect again18:20
Fallenouit seems people are interested in having kinect connected to the M118:20
Fallenoubut I guess it's not so easy because of the usb host18:20
kristianpaulthats requires usb right?18:21
kristianpaulhe, yeah :)18:21
FallenouI would guess kinect uses isochronous streams18:21
Fallenoudon't know if it's implemented in the usb host18:21
Action: kristianpaul hopes that the last word in the topic of this channel wasnt the answer18:23
kristianpaulFallenou: questions about SoC it self?18:23
Fallenouyes about the arch, about why lm3218:24
Fallenouabout the frequency of the cpu18:24
Fallenouand the sdram frequency18:24
Fallenouabout the fpga model used18:24
kristianpaulAlarm: with update you mean jsut binaries, or also copile from sources?18:25
kristianpaulAlarm: just in case http://ur1.ca/4wa7g and http://ur1.ca/4wa7f18:29
mwallemh i missed the talk20:10
wpwrakQ: does reading the NOR via JTAG-USB go directly to the NOR, or is there an intermediate copy of the data made in any RAM on the M1 ?21:25
mwallewpwrak: you directly control and readback the io pins21:27
wpwrakexcellent !21:28
mwallemh? :)21:28
wpwrakmwalle: you wouldn't have by any chance experienced those supposed NOR corruptions / CRC errors on your own M1 ?21:28
mwallei dont think so21:29
mwallealthough i havent flashed it very often21:29
wpwraki'm trying to write up a test procedure to figure out what's really going on, but i'm a little afraid it may get so complex that we then also have to spend quite some time debugging the bug reports :-(21:29
wpwrakno, it's supposed to happen to the content in flash, without actually attempting to change it21:30
mwallewpwrak: only temporal or permanent corrupted?21:31
wpwrakthat's one of the questions we're not quite sure about :)21:33
wpwrakon rc2, from what i've heard, it appears to be more permanent than temporary, on rc3 we don't know yet. it's also not clear if rc2 and rc3 show the same problem, if there's only one problem or multiple overlapping ones, etc.21:34
mwalleand are all sectors equally affected?21:34
mwallebecause i'm just using the bitstream and bios from the flash most of the time21:34
mwalleso i have a rc121:34
wpwrakagain, insufficient data :-(21:35
wpwrakwhat exactly is that BIOS ? is it some sort of monitor ?21:35
mwallemh? the 'normal' mm bios21:36
mwallebtw urjtag has some python bindings, (dunno if its already merges, but there was some patches on the ML)21:37
mwalleif my bitstream image was corrupted, i would know it21:38
wpwraki don't know what the "normal MM BIOS" :) all i know about the M1 is from reading about it. well, i briefly held one in my hands in porto alegre. even managed to pry loose the uSD holder's lid :)21:39
mwalleah  ok:)21:39
wpwrakdo you power cycle often ?21:39
mwallemh, not really, im using the the reset button most of the time21:40
wpwrakone theory is that it's related to power ramp up/down issues21:40
wpwrak(reset button) thought so :) maybe this is just what saves you :)21:40
mwallethe bios is the first thing which is loaded and has some basic support for loading binaries from net/sd/flash21:40
wpwrakdoes the BIOS implement any user access ? such as NOR retrieval by whatever means (ether or such) ?21:41
wpwrakah, and do you know if NOR content is stored inverted by any chance ?21:43
wpwrakwhen you look at http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/hardware/milkymist_one/production/rc3/test_results/66-results21:44
wpwrakdoes the "Images CRC" come frmo the BIOS ? or is it something else ?21:44
mwallewpwrak: no user access to the internal bus, but you can use the gdb rom for that21:53
mwallewpwrak: and in dont know the physical implementation of a nor cell21:54
mwallethats a test program running there, which has the crcs somehow embedded21:55
mwallebut the bios has a crc for itself too21:55
wpwrak(test program) ah, i see. suspected that this may be an "unusual" setup21:57
mwalleand maybe we could add a crc32 command to the gdb stub, so you wont have to download the memory over a slow connection21:57
wpwrak(nor cell) i mean, do you know if a byte that reads, say, 0x55 in the file and that RTEMS would see as 0x55 is actually stored in the NOR as 0x55 or is it inverted for some obscure reason ? (i'm asking because a 0->1 single-bit corruption appears to have been observed, which is something that should be "impossible")21:59
wpwrakthat could be useful. most of the time, i think you want all the memory to do proper analysis. and even if it's good, you want to exercise the communication channel22:00
mwallewpwrak: no its stored non inverted22:01
wpwrake.g., we know that USB-JTAG has gremlins. can we be sure that Ether doesn't have some, too ? :)22:01
wpwrakdarn :)22:01
mwallegdbrom uses the serial line, with some checksumming, so i think you can be pretty sure its reliable :)22:02
mwalleand it wont need any external ram or flash22:02
wpwrakwhat happens if you get a checksum error ?22:02
mwallecommand is retried22:02
wpwrakthat's serial via USB-JTAG, correct ?22:03
mwalleserial via ft2232, yes22:03
mwallethat usb-jtag module22:03
wpwrakdoes yours do full-speed or is it the "fixed" version that does high-speed ?22:03
mwallei have an early hand-assembled one, which wasnt affected by the highspeed bug, iirc22:04
wpwrakhmm. tricky :)22:06
wpwrakso yours gets enumerated as a high-speed device ? (on Linux, i suppose)22:06
mwalle[    1.556009] usb 2-3: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 422:07
mwalle[    1.691945] usb 2-3: New USB device found, idVendor=20b7, idProduct=071322:07
mwalle20b7:0713 was the id, right? :)22:08
wpwrakand when gdb gets a checksum error and retries, does it leave any record of this ? such as a message, log entry, statistics counter, ... ? i.e., is there a way to tell how often your communication incurs a checksum error ?22:08
wpwrakyup :)22:08
mwallewpwrak: sorry, dunno, maybe gdb has some counters, but i dont think you see any command checksum errors22:09
mwallebefore that you would see usb message errors imho22:09
mwalleunless the gdb stub is doing sth wrong22:09
wpwrakthe thing is that USB also retries bad packets. i need to see if this leaves any traces. you can actually get lots of bit errors on your USB connection with everything looking normal.22:10
wpwrakand every once in a while, one of those errors (must be multi-bit, CRC catches all single-bit errors) will slip through USB's guard22:11
wpwrakin your case, gdb should then see a checksum failure, and retry22:11
mwalleand how is that connected to the suddenly corrupted flash sector? :)22:12
wpwraki hope not :) but it's an additional factor in the analysis. since usb-jtag seems to be the lowest-level access we have, be it with jtag or gdb, it would make sense to use that to read back the NOR content when a CRC error is reported22:14
wpwraknow, if USB-JTAG itself is unreliable, we need to take this into account too, and not mistake USB-JTAG errors for NOR errors, or vice versa22:15
mwallei see, so you could download the image via gdb (fjmem, the jtag access is slow as hell), and do a crc on both the board and your downloaded image22:17
mwalleto be sure they match22:17
mwalleassuming that the nor errors are sticky :)22:17
wpwrakrepeat this a few times, to be sure to have a baseline estimate for an upper bound of the error rate on usb-jtag22:18
wpwrakthen use the board until the CRC error happens22:18
wpwrakno, first you'd do all this with a NOR that still thinks it's okay22:18
wpwraksort of a calibration :)22:18
mwallei bet there wont be any bad runs :)22:19
wpwrakin the calibration or once you start systematic testing ? :)22:19
wpwrakthat's what i'd hope for, too :)22:20
wpwrakbut if you don't measure it, you don't know22:20
mwalleand of course if you try to reproduce an error there wont be any22:20
wpwrakyeah, and you hear that faint giggling from murphy's general direction :)22:21
wpwrakfor all we know, it could actually be a RAM corruption, too. wouldn't this be fun ? :)22:21
mwallehave to go, last day at work tomorrow :)22:21
wpwrakretiring ? :)22:21
mwalleif thats true, gdb should be able to dump the right image :)22:22
wpwrak(gdb) yes ! does xiangfu know how to do these things with gdb ?22:22
mwalleholyday :)22:22
wpwrak(holiday) great ! so you'll have more time for M1 ;-)22:23
mwalleyeah thinking about it on the beach :)22:23
wpwrakhave a few drinks. and sometimes the best ideas pop up on the morning, with a light hangover :)22:23
mwalledunno if xiangfu knows it, but theres something in the wiki how to connect to the board using gdb, and then it should be some normal gdb commands to download a memory region22:24
mwalleso gn8 :)22:25
wpwraksweet dreams ! :)22:25
wpwrakand thanks for all the help !22:25
mwallenp, btw does the crc fails for other flash partitions, too?22:26
mwallenot only backup bios?22:26
mwalleoh forget it22:26
mwalleits backup flickernoise :)22:26
mwalletime to sleep22:26
wpwrakit seems to fail in the bitstream as well. recovery may simple be the only one where the problem can be reported in this way. bitstream failure yields my mysterious results :)22:31
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