#milkymist IRC log for Saturday, 2011-07-23

wolfspraulwpwrak: can you draw a (partial) schematic of the solution with logic gates that you proposed for the m1 bootup fix?06:15
wolfspraulI'm asking because we may want to expedite rc4 so if we can parallelize some of that work it might be helpful. And you may still have the idea clearly in your mind now :-)06:16
wpwraksure. that idea is very clear ;-)06:17
xiangfularsc, Hi where is the milkymist linux/openwrt source code URL?08:35
wolfspraulxiangfu: I think the Linux kernel tree is here (you probably know that already) https://github.com/tmatsuya/linux-2.6/commits/master08:55
wolfspraulwhether there are OpenWrt patches I don't know08:55
lekernel|[{#«#{[! why is everyone using the wrong repository?09:05
lekernelit's https://github.com/milkymist/linux-milkymist09:05
wolfsprauloh :-)09:06
lekernelI thought all Linux activity was dead09:09
GitHub156[linux-milkymist] sbourdeauducq pushed 1500 new commits to master: https://github.com/milkymist/linux-milkymist/compare/0e5da30...58a7fd709:14
GitHub156[linux-milkymist/master] USB: serial: add another 4N-GALAXY.DE PID to ftdi_sio driver - Steffen Sledz09:14
GitHub156[linux-milkymist/master] Merge 3.0-rc2 + Linus's latest into usb-linus - Greg Kroah-Hartman09:14
GitHub156[linux-milkymist/master] Merge git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/sfrench/cifs-2.6 - Linus Torvalds09:14
wpwraklekernel: linux never dies ;-)10:08
wpwraklekernel: by the way, i was thinking of a cool application for video input: if you have "trigger points" in the camera image where a movement/presence of an object can cause the generation of visual effects (you once said this would be possible), you could also do the same with audio effects. that way, one could "play an instrument" by, say, moving one's hand into the right area10:10
lekernelyeah right... but so many things so little time, heh10:11
wpwraklekernel: now, to do this properly, you'd probably want to send this event to a MIDI instrument. that may be a PC. for this, you would need a USB-to-MIDI dongle. i looked around and they seem to come in a very large price range, around USD 5 to USD 50. would you generally expect them all to work with the M1 ? or would a prospective buyer need some guidance ?10:12
lekernelthere's a proper audio out on the M110:12
wpwrak(little time) yeah, i know :) but that's now why i mention it. it led me to the MIDI issue.10:13
larscare usb midi devices standardized?10:15
wpwrak(audio out) that could be an alternative in some cases, yes. how good are the M1's audio capabilities, compared to the average synthesizer (or let's say qsynth, for something that's all free software)10:15
lekernelas good as you want, it's a normal ac97 audio chip10:15
wolfsprauland audio noise was reduced by 90% from rc2 to rc3! :-)10:16
wpwrak(regarding midi) it's a pity that M1 doens't have a USB device port (not counting the JTAG dongle here). otherwise, MIDI-over-USB (etc.) could be added later.10:16
wpwrakhehe ;-)10:16
wolfspraulswitched from a National LM4550B to a Wolfson WM9707 codec10:16
wpwrakwolfspraul: i'm still a bit scared that adam can actually measure it so easily. but maybe what he really sees are measurement artefacts :)10:17
lekernelyou can have USB device with a passive adapter, but expect major pains from the usb protocol10:17
wolfspraulwpwrak: that may well be, but I think we can safely say it's "much reduced"10:18
wpwrak(pains) yeah, i know what you mean ;-)10:18
wolfspraul(the two measurements were indeed done in different ways...)10:18
wolfspraulso for rc4 we are planning, at the moment, to switch to ADV7181C, the logic gates solution if we feel safe enough about it, short L1910:22
wolfspraulmaybe more as we learn from rc3, but that's the list under consideration now10:22
wpwrakhmm, what is the black curve "below" the red one in http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:M1_rc3_profile_110715.jpg ?10:23
wpwrak(ADV7181C) oh, sounds like a big change ?10:24
wolfspraulno supposedly a very small change, drop-in, plus remove some filter outside10:26
wpwrakah, getting rid of filters is always nice10:27
wolfspraulin that list, it sounds like the biggest change would be the logic gates, that's why I asked whether you can help with a drawing for clarity... but that's not urgent, Adam is deep in rc3 now and there seem to be some nasty problems at the moment that need to be investigated10:28
wolfspraulI'm just trying to help with some of the rc4 preparations to offload from Adam10:28
wolfspraulyes it sounds like the change from adv7181b to c is less risky than the one from National to Wolfson audio codec we did between rc2 and rc310:29
wolfspraulI guess it's similar, even the same manufacturere here... what can possibly go wrong, right? :-)10:30
wpwrakalways the same ;)10:35
wolfspraulwpwrak: I was trying to understand your midi idea above. you basically want to turn m1 into a midi emitting instrument, and then the usb2midi thing.10:39
wolfspraulbut m1 already has midi output, why not just use that?10:40
wpwrakthat's the idea. the question was whether the usb-to-midi dongles should all work with M1 or if some selection is necessary10:41
wolfspraulwhy do you need such a dongle? why not just run a midi cable from the midi-out of m1 to whereever you want to run it to?10:41
wpwraki also found it surprising that there's quite a large price range from these, from USD 5 to 50, without considering "fancy" brands10:41
wolfspraulcould be just marketing & channel power, don't underestimate that10:42
wpwrakthe "wherever" may be your PC. does yours have a MIDI plug ? ;-)10:42
wolfspraulwe always look at things from an engineering perspective, but that be quite off economically :-)10:42
wolfspraulah ok, so it's a software problem then?10:42
wpwraksure. could be just that. just want to know what the expectation is :)10:42
wolfspraulI still don't understand. if you run a usb cable to your computer, why need a dongle?10:42
wolfspraulwhat does the dongle do?10:42
wolfsprauldo you have a url for the dongle? I think I just don't get what it does...10:43
wpwrakthe dongle translates from MIDI-over-USB (which is what your PC can speak) to MIDI-sans-USB (which is what M1 speaks)10:43
wpwrakhere's a cheap one: http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Converter-Music-Keyboard-Window/dp/B0017H4EBG10:44
wpwrakhere's an expensive one: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Uno.html10:44
wolfspraulah OK, now I got it. so the cable runs from the m1 midi-out to your computer10:46
wolfspraulif that's 5 USD on Amazon, it's 1 USD in China. if it makes sense I throw it into the box :-)10:47
wpwrakyeah. whether this would make sense was one of the implied questions ;-)10:48
wolfspraulit probably would, if there were more software on m1 that would utilize midi-out (just guessing, I have never used midi-out on my m1)10:52
wolfspraulso it's a bit of a chicken-egg problem, the presence of the cable may make some people go in that direction if they would otherwise not10:53
wolfspraulfor now I'll add it to the 'ideas' section, we can think about that later10:53
wolfspraulit's ironic, but if we have strong retail partners, they will want us to remove all those accessories anyway :-)10:54
wolfspraulso they can sell the one for 50 USD10:54
wolfspraulbut while we are mostly direct, I am not hesitating to try to deliver the highest value directly to our users10:54
wpwrakit's a pity that there isn't more development on the application side of M1. i think it's only lekernel and a bit from xiangfu, right ?10:54
wpwrak(retail) yeah ;-) and then everyone will expect that the price of M1 has to come down by USD as well ;-)10:55
wpwraks/USD/USD 50/10:55
wolfsprauloh sure10:55
wolfspraulyes, 90% lekernel10:55
GitHub81[linux-milkymist] larsclausen pushed 6 new commits to master: https://github.com/milkymist/linux-milkymist/compare/58a7fd7...0bec64a10:55
GitHub81[linux-milkymist/master] minimac: Use iobase + offset for register offset - Lars-Peter Clausen10:55
GitHub81[linux-milkymist/master] minimac: Use kernel crc32 instead of custom - Lars-Peter Clausen10:55
GitHub81[linux-milkymist/master] asm-generic: Fix default __user_strnlen - Lars-Peter Clausen10:55
wolfspraulthat's how it is, we are trying to attract more devs but it takes time for people to understand and accept the idea of the whole platform10:56
wolfspraulwpwrak: I added the midi-to-usb cable idea http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_accessories#cables10:58
wolfspraulthat wiki page is a mess, just remembering all sorts of links right now, need to clean it up10:58
GitHub10[linux-milkymist] larsclausen pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/linux-milkymist/commit/5b92aa2be2b031b40cb0b44f6a6e0b417429386710:58
GitHub10[linux-milkymist/master] Merge commit 'v3.0' into lm32 - Lars-Peter Clausen10:58
wolfspraulwpwrak: btw, that example of the 50 USD cable eating into our margin is why we need to have our own accessories source anyway, so we can quickly turn around and sell them our own, 'Milkymist MIDI cable', also for 50 USD retail11:01
wolfspraulwith nicely designed packaging etc.11:01
wolfspraulretail will love it11:01
wolfspraulonce we get to that point I definitely need to get Steve's advice and experience back into the team, I don't want to guess those decisions11:02
wolfspraulhe has been doing this kind of pushing and pulling over who eats into which margin for 10+ years11:03
wpwrak(selling accessories) yeah, that's where the big money is :)11:03
larscwill there be milkymist ethernet cables with gold pins?11:04
wpwrakquick, who will make the benchmark that shows the gilded cable has less packet loss ? ;-)11:07
lekernelpacket loss? better talk about (subjective) audio quality11:12
wpwrakright, much better11:12
wpwrakthe reviews are wonderful. "The Denon AKDL1 dedicated link cable helped me locate my estranged father."11:18
larscxiangfu: there is no lm32 openwrt repo yet11:52
lekernelthere is https://github.com/psycho-nico/milkymist-openwrt but it's dead and outdated11:54
larscthere is no repo for my lm32 openwrt yet11:59
lekerneldoes the executable loader (and shared libraries?) work correctly now, by the way?12:00
lekernelone of the main problems we had is that openwrt requires shared libs12:00
larsci patched it to use static libs12:01
kristianpaullarsc: static libs, great !12:50
larscshared libs would be a way nicer12:56
kristianpauli modeled same CC sync logic one in a separte module, other inside module, and guess what??18:16
kristianpaulthe first one dint work...18:17
Action: kristianpaul feels ashamed after reading warning about bad assigment18:23
Alarmto compile qemu UIKit I need?19:00
AlarmIOKit/IOKitLib.h: No such file or directory19:22
AlarmIOkit sorry19:23
AlarmI search IOKit20:00
lekernelAlarm, please post the complete error message20:21
lekerneland what operating system are you using20:21
lekernelthis looks like an Apple thing ...20:22
AlarmOk I work with fedora20:38
AlarmI find the wiki page: http://www.milkymist.org/wiki/index.php?title=Using_QEMU20:39
Alarmafter the make i have :20:40
Alarmblock/raw-posix.c:35:28: fatal error: IOKit/IOKitLib.h: No such file or directory20:40
Alarmcompilation terminated.20:40
Alarmmake: *** [block/raw-posix.o] Error 120:40
lekernelhave you done  git revert bf5547f5365c1bfeba9d5c3e87653b9803a875a5?20:52
lekernelAs of 2011-7-18 the lm32 qemu repository is broken. For the time being you could revert the commit bf5547f536.20:52
lekernel git revert bf5547f5365c1bfeba9d5c3e87653b9803a875a520:52
lekernelAlso, please make sure you have the following patch applied (at the time of writing this email, the patch hasn't been applied to the qemu master branch):20:52
lekernel http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/102256/20:52
lekernelthe wiki page says this at the beginning20:53
Alarmyes but I do not understand what to do with git revert bf5547f5365c1bfeba9d5c3e87653b9803a875a5?21:01
Alarm  You must type this line or?21:01
AlarmIt opens vim?21:01
AlarmI did not get a warning from the wiki Thanks for your help. As they say "tomorrow is another day":)21:18
lekernelis there any linux distro that install by default patented codecs, dvd decryption libraries, etc.?21:39
lekerneli'm tired of having to deal with that crap21:39
wpwraklekernel: that DOES install them ? well, yes. many do. e.g., ubuntu.21:40
lekernelby default? without having to type a single extra line? e.g. if I put an encrypted dvd on a default install, it will play it?21:41
wpwrakwell, you have to tell it to install mplayer or whatever. i don't remember being asked about codecs.21:41
wpwraki don't know if the "naked" distro has playback capabilities. but a "naked" distro is rarely usable anyway.21:42
wpwrakand once you've told it the things you want, it'll keep them around for you, update them, etc.21:42
lekernelseriously having to search the web for libdvdcss, mp3 plugins, etc. is just annoying21:48
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