#milkymist IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-07-19

kristianpaullekernel: hi03:13
kristianpaullekernel: the sys_rst signal in mm1 soc, i just one clock cycle pulse right?03:14
awrc3 good that rendering through night is still working...this C238 i used is 10nF, still seems work ...and the cable is 15 cm long.05:13
jpbonnDoes anyone know if flterm works on OSX?  I saw IRC comments indicating it doesn't.05:23
awjust used 2 * 100pF capacitors to close the 220pF we want in the end and clean well, the cable(15 cm) now goes between USB sockets to bottom's R157.05:48
awlet's boot up again to see rendering couple times firstly. ;-)05:49
awaha~can't boot that is really surprising me. must be somewhere wrong again. :(06:00
awi hope this is just caused by many times soldering to cause it. :( I don't want to get such surprising things again, no make sense.06:01
wpwrak_aw: how are you cleaning away the flux ?06:03
awthe upper left tools is cleaner I used to, that's very normal in electronic shop.06:04
awliquid one06:05
wpwrak_okay, looks good06:05
awbtw, can you add a 15 cm with small resistances between R157 and program_b in your simulation tool?06:06
awsaid that as 0.1 ohm?06:06
awand used 200pF for C238?06:07
awthat's currently I have.06:07
awsorry that the 0.1 ohm between init_b and diode's anode?06:08
wpwrak_a 15 cm transmission line ? :)06:09
aw well...used a 30AWG well so i have no spec about the wire wrapping wire06:10
wpwrak_let's see. usually, transmission lines of that kind just make the simulation slow and fragile06:11
awmust be have an equivalent model for wire: not sure that tool have what to identify like inductive or else06:11
wolfspraullet's try to get the board booting again, or it will quickly end like the rc2...06:11
wpwrak_fragile, because the line could in theory produce enormous bounces. in practice, it's limited by all sorts of parasitic effects. so i had to add a 4 pF cap on R157 to get rid of those superbounces06:12
wpwrak_the transmission line just adds a tiny bit of ripple. too small to show on a scope. the cap causes more confusion :)06:13
wpwrak_adding a 0.1 R instead ... drop should be around 2.4 V. well within the safe zone06:14
wpwrak_wolfspraul: yeah. death by rework sucks. that rc3 board is already above what i'd consider a safe number of reworks in a single area :-(06:15
wolfspraulalso I think we are doing an excessive number of reworks, no need at all06:16
wolfspraulwe don't have to test 150pf, 200pf, 220pf, 12cm wire, 15 cm wire, 17.5 cm wire, and all combinations of those06:17
wolfspraulI mean we can, but we will just waste time, damage boards, and learn nothing.06:17
awafter reconfiguration , the init_b is 1.4V which is it okay?06:18
awprogram_b still 3.3V06:18
wpwrak_if i remember correctly, that looks a bit as if the FPGA was trying to tell us it saw a CRC error. strange voltage, though.06:19
awi am not trying to do experiments or reworks though.. just want to get all values to be like in the end. surely this period could be damaged by many soldering. :(06:19
awwpwrak_, hmm..okay.06:20
awso should be my init_b is not correct.06:20
wolfspraulthere was no need to run it on 10nF overnight, imo. but ok, now we did it and now we see whether we can recover :-)06:20
wolfspraulat least the 10nF overnight test showed that.... :-) there is no problem!06:21
wolfspraulbut now we have a problem :-)06:21
wpwrak_about INIT_B: http://pastebin.com/eWHFUGac06:21
awthat 1.4 V surely defenitely stays unknow level to init_b06:21
wpwrak_wolfspraul: i doubt the 10 nF did any damage06:22
wolfspraulanother rework, my understanding is that after trying to go back to 200pF now, it won't work anymore06:22
wolfspraulthe reason the 10nF overnight test is not worth much, imo, is that whatever the outcome would have been, we woudl still have followed our old plan06:23
wolfspraulif it worked (like it did), we say - OK - let's use 220 pF06:23
wolfsprauland if it would not have worked, after some consideration, we would have decided to ignore the result and still go with 220 pF :-)06:23
wpwrak_wolfspraul: if you have a board you don't like, try driving 2-3 adjacent pins permanently high with maximum drive strength, then short them to ground. let the board burn like this overnight. chances are everything will still work in the morning ;-) (and if i'm wrong, well, you didn't like the board in the first place ;-)06:23
wolfspraulbut it doesn't matter now, we got this test result (10nF overnight works), and we move on, back to the actual 220pF plan...06:24
wpwrak_wolfspraul: (10 nF result) yeah, most likely ;-)06:24
wolfspraulit's 50 times above what we believe is a good design, so the value of the test result is very limited already06:25
wolfspraullet's hope rc3 comes bac06:25
awhmmm..i do nothing on h/w, and reflashing again ....no is boot...06:33
awinteresting...well....test boot-to-rendering...ten times again...06:34
awhmm....in rendering mode ..the init_b stays 1.4V ;-)06:35
awnow count ...06:35
wpwrak_INIT_B is strange. what's the exact level on PROGRAM_B_2 ?06:37
awin rendering mode & after reconfiguration06:39
wpwrak_*hmm*. doesn't quite make sense, with the information i have. you'd need to compare this with a "known to be good" board.06:39
awthis should ask Lekernel , i quite don't know what actual level init_b from fpga it should be.06:40
wpwrak_you'll get more rc3 board tomorrow, right ?06:41
awnow I have only one board.06:41
awneed to call them again06:41
awsince yesterday did reworks on their site. second...call now06:42
awboards in factory haven't been arranged though hole parts process,06:46
awsaid now is bad that friday to go for through hole part works, so I have to go there to bring 1 ~ 2 boards with handly soldering through hole myself.06:47
wpwrak_factories don't seem to like through hole :)06:47
awwell...seems that i have to go there. :( and also bring 220pF back06:48
awthe reworks they said are done.06:48
aw 606:49
awlet's finished 10 times, then I go there. not wait06:49
wpwrak_(go here) probably the best approach. get some more boards, finish the rework, then you can check things with relatively "clean" boards06:49
wolfspraulwpwrak_: do we need to investigate the 1.4V issue further?06:49
awand keeps rc3 mysite rendering06:49
wpwrak_wolfspraul: maybe. at least if it happens on other boards as well. if it's just the rc3 #1, i'd rather forget about it :)06:50
awthe best way now is let Lekernel to measure his rc2 board then we get answer06:50
awlater i bring rc3 boards back then i confirm again.06:51
wpwrak_wolfspraul: or if lekernel has a suitable explanation for the voltage. i all i know about the pin is 2nd hand information from him anyway06:51
awalthough i measured and tried to plot all signals while rc206:53
awbut I quite don't know how they work, maybe this can express something06:54
awnow from the rc2 plot I had have, YES06:54
awthe init_b is not HI or LOW after DONE goes HIGH (thus reconfiguration is finished)06:55
wpwrak_hmm, that seems to contradict what lekernel found in the xilinx documentation. well, he can puzzle that one out :)06:56
awsurely now rc3, one diode added.06:56
awyes, hope he can describe more details.06:56
wpwrak_but it's reassuring that INIT_B was sort of floating before. so this isn't anything new. even if it seems strange (because INIT_B cannot float :)06:57
wpwrak_this suggests that the weird voltage on INIT_B is not connected to the boot failure you had before.06:57
awseems that they are not the same story(boot failure) i have.06:59
wpwrak_that boot failure is a bit unsettling, though. how many times did you try to power cycle before reflashing ?06:59
wolfsprauland where in the boot did it fail? before reconfig? after reconfig?07:01
awone time only07:02
wpwrak_what does CH2 show ?07:03
awafter i cleaned, then I power on, then reconfiguration then boot failure....07:03
wolfspraulso reconfiguration finished, D2 went off, but after pressing the middle button - what happened?07:04
awwhich pciture I let rc2 finished configuration mode then I tried to trigger a falling edge (thus power off) to get its level with 3V3 plt.07:04
awwolfspraul, after pressing middle button, then D2 light then OFF07:05
awcant keep ON...so no boot up more.07:05
awthen i powered off to measure init_b & program_b to check  then do nothings07:06
wolfspraulI would ignore this for now.07:06
awso I reflashed s/w again under configuration mode (thus D2 is OFF stage)07:06
awthen after reflashing done. boot status goes back. ;-)07:07
wolfspraulwe can look at the 1.4V a little if we want to, but I really think we need to focus on the one design we believe is good now, and produce boards with the least amount of reworks07:07
wolfspraulsure, understand07:07
awdo nothing...07:07
wolfspraulfor a user that would be fatal, because he cannot easily access jtag07:07
wolfspraulbut again - we need to be careful to not go in circles07:07
awyes i know07:07
wolfspraulenough circling now, let's assume our design and ideas are correct, and move forward07:08
wolfspraulif we find suspicious things during testing, we have time to think more07:08
wolfspraulthat's a bit risky, but everything is risky and we need to take risks07:08
wolfspraulso I'm not worried about the risks. going in circle forever is also a risk :-)07:08
wolfsprauldeath risk07:08
awafter bought cleaner liquid just wanted to back to fix2 circuit ten just discovered this failure.07:08
wolfspraulyes, read what I say about circling. enough circles now. forward.07:08
wolfspraulif someone wants to look into 1.4V, fine07:09
wolfspraulbut let's focus on the way forward now, we take the risk that there are more mysteries07:09
wpwrak_maybe the cleaner just wasn't entirely dry yet ;-)07:09
wolfspraulthat's the price we pay when we mix production and design07:09
awwpwrak_, NO07:09
wolfspraulaw: you are right - please watch any more incorrect behavior, and report it. even if you see something only once.07:10
awi am very carefully on dry clean thing...i let it dried by blow by fan07:10
wolfspraulbecause our users will not be able to reflash with jtag...07:10
wolfspraulso the report is good, but it's only 1 data point now - too little to be worth further investigation07:10
wolfspraulaw: you pickup some more rc3 boards now? are they fully soldered?07:11
wpwrak_wolfspraul: would also be good to try to recover with conventional means after a supposed flash corruption. there may be failure patterns that aren't easily reproduced.07:11
awall today;s happened is becuase I knew i'll use 1 new 15 cm cable and goes back to use 2* 100pF capacitors so I am very serious to settle them down then try to test 10 times then go to assemble it with my case. ;-)07:12
wolfspraulget the 220pf from the factory, and start using that, and no more other caps :-)07:12
awwolfspraul, now i can go there. ;-)07:12
wolfspraulwe focus on the production now, enough design07:12
wpwrak_yeah, it's good to test things step by step. makes it easier to tell where things went wrong if you're at step #100 and it doesn't work ;-)07:13
awyes...thank you guys.07:13
awkeep rendering...07:13
wolfspraulplus we need to move forward in boards, not get stuck. we will just make more and more discoveries like the bad probe...07:13
awnow i go out... ;-)07:13
wpwrak_btw, what does CH2 on http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:M1rc2_0x1a_3v3_INIT_B_falling_0.43A_wn10b-050.JPG show ?07:13
wpwrak_looks like ~2.2 V07:14
awCH2 is 3V3(TP1)07:14
wpwrak_ah, so the zero is just well below the screen. okay.07:14
awsorry that CH1 - 3V3, CH2 - init_b07:14
wpwrak_aha !07:14
wolfspraulaw: you pickup more rc3 boards?07:14
awman..i always typed too fast. :(07:15
wolfspraulhow many? fully soldered?07:15
wpwrak_so INIT_B is 2.2 V. interesting.07:15
awwolfspraul, only one07:15
awfactory now all SMD parts assembled and rework done but haven't go through through hole reflow machine07:16
wolfspraulso you do throw-hole on that board yourself?07:16
awso now I go there to bring 2 boards back then solder my self on through hole parts. ;-)07:17
awyeah...time to go07:17
awseems they are ignore us doing other customers. bad~ :(07:17
wolfspraulstart to kick them, it's normal07:19
wolfspraulI'm not worried07:19
wolfspraulif you get another board or two, we can use the time very well for more testing07:20
awwpwrak_, 2.2V - 0.8V = 1.4V  ;-) it real interesting...the drops must be the diode Vf. although it's not precisely. ;-)07:20
wpwrak_or speand a day to learn qucs ;-)07:21
wpwrak_nice theory, but the diode's Vf should be around 0.4-0.5 V ;-)07:21
wpwrak_(and if it's 0.5 V, it should be quite hot, burning something like >= 0.5 W ;-) actually, 0.3-0.5 V.07:23
GitHub57[extras-m1] shiyele pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/o0a5bo08:04
GitHub57[extras-m1/master] updated leaflet panels, logo - Wolfgang Spraul08:04
lekerneljpbonn, flterm doesn't work on OSX because of Apple's crappy poll() implementation which doesn't work with devices08:09
wolfspraullekernel: I updated the leaflet a little, you can check if you like. just the panels and logo08:10
lekerneljpbonn, you can use the old select()08:10
wolfspraulI'm having some trouble with the brochure, first Scribus complained about a number of Pakistani and Thai fonts missing. After I installed them the warnings went away but the fonts are quite wrong08:10
wolfspraulsee http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/wolfgang/tmp/brochure.pdf08:10
wolfspraulare you using those Pakistani and Thai fonts? one quick solution is to just ignore my problems and you upload a 300dpi version of the latest brochure (right now there's only a 100dpi version)08:11
wolfspraulor we find out why I can't open the file in scribus, which is probably better if there are printing problems.08:12
wolfspraulif you make a pdf, export all characters to outlines, no embedded fonts at all. that's probably better.08:12
lekernelwolfspraul, those fonts have some "pakistani" in their name, yes08:14
lekernelalso the colors do not look right on your pdf export08:14
wolfspraullook at my brochure.pdf, that's what it looks like when I open the file in Scribus08:14
wolfsprauleven though I installed all missing fonts08:14
lekernelcompare to http://www.milkymist.org/leaflets/brochure_v2_100dpi.pdf08:15
wolfspraulsure I know08:15
wolfspraulthat's why we are chatting :-)08:15
lekerneli'm using scribus 1.4.0 rc408:15
wolfspraulI have rc3, I can try rc408:15
wolfspraulprobably just some small thing that throws it off here, like utf-8 or so08:16
wolfspraulrc3 is the latest in debian unstable08:17
wolfspraulok I will dig some more here :-) maybe you can upload a 300dpi version with all fonts as outlines as well08:17
wolfsprauleven though I would prefer that I can edit and export to pdf here, otherwise small issues have to go back and forth all the time08:18
lekernelwell, try with rc4 and all the fonts installed08:20
wolfspraullekernel: did you see the 1.4V issue above?08:27
wolfspraulis that something worrisome or in needs of investigation?08:27
wolfspraulcool, thanks! I will still try to get it to work with my Scribus, but that's a fallback08:27
lekernelno, let's see how it goes on the other boards08:27
awbrought back 2pcs * rc3, need soldering through hole parts now.10:22
awbut bad is i saw their through hole reflow line is busy on IPC products. :( painful10:27
wolfsprauldon't worry:10:27
wolfspraula) we cannot change it10:28
wolfspraulb) we cannot reasonably expect them to treat a 2000-3000 USD customer with high priority10:28
wolfspraulc) we have good uses for the few days of delay, and eventually they will do good on their delivery10:28
wolfspraulthey even 'owe us' a bit now because we let them satisfy some urgent 'VIP' customers first :-)10:29
awsurely true...trust is trust...well I cant change them. :(10:30
wolfspraulI think it's ok, really. I can only expect reasonable things.10:30
wolfspraulthe world will not stop to finish the Milkymist One RC3 run10:30
wolfspraullet's make good use of the time10:30
awlet's make tests on those two I brought tonight.10:31
wolfspraulmaybe more surprises await us :-)10:32
awwhile soldering I saw couples seconds freeze on one of patch, then rendering again. is it normal? Do I need to know which one it is? or forget it.10:55
awi keep soldering...10:56
wolfspraulyes I've seen such short freezes too sometimes10:58
awi am not alone. i forget it now.10:58
wolfspraulI think no big deal right now, but keep an eye on it. it's exactly right: watch the product like a user would. So 'freeze', short or long, is not right.10:59
errordeveloper_lekernel: so ..hm, if you had a mega-huge fpga, would you use opensparc ?11:30
errordeveloper_some imaginary huge and cheap one :)11:31
wolfspraulerrordeveloper_: let me answer too (even though I barely can read Verilog): no, I would not11:31
wolfspraulbut I was at the exact same point of thinking maybe 2-3 years ago, so I can totally understand11:31
wolfspraulthe question is: what do you want to do with the result you are building?11:31
wolfspraulHDL sources are not as easily portable or reusable as a C library, that's one thing to keep in mind11:32
wolfspraulyou really have to define your goal first, then pick the tools11:33
wolfspraulopensparc being big means it's hard to modify/improve11:33
lekernelHDL sources aren't too hard to port, but the point is simply that huge and fast FPGAs are expensive11:35
wolfspraulI looked at opensparc for a while before I found Milkymist, and concluded there is not much one can realistically do with it.11:38
wolfspraulof course you tell me I'm wrong, and make it part of Milkymist :-)11:39
wolfspraulI'm sold on Milkymist now :-)11:39
lekerneland if by some magic I'd had a cheap one, I'd still use one or many LM32's to make an even faster SoC :)11:39
errordeveloper_I got more questions, but need to read the paper in full :)11:57
GitHub171[extras-m1] shiyele pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/nDdV0311:58
GitHub171[extras-m1/master] added milkymist-sticker using new logo - Wolfgang Spraul11:58
awfinished two rc3 through hole part soldering but not fix2 patches...keeping.13:32
errordeveloper_trying to build llhdl on darwin13:41
errordeveloper_I came accross this issue http://www.mail-archive.com/cmake@cmake.org/msg35871.html13:41
errordeveloper_which header should I better stick it into13:42
errordeveloper_include/config.h.in ?13:42
errordeveloper_or add something like include/incompat.h.in or similar ?13:44
errordeveloper_basically the issue is that on getline() is fgetln() on bsd13:44
wpwrak_they should work the name a little more. it's already impressively close to "fhtagn", though13:47
errordeveloper_damn, in fact getline and fgetln work very differently ;(13:57
awpheu~the clean job is tough more than if I solder a small board. ;-)13:57
awrealized that why they use a auto grinder with hairbrush machine to clean!14:00
wpwrak_aw: for small boards, ultrasound cleaning is also a nice option. but of course, M1 is too big for that ... (well, for the cheap ultrasound cleaners)14:00
errordeveloper_well, by chance I found a fix which is somewhat hosted on qi-hw.com:14:33
awwpwrak_,  yeah. but I've not seen it before14:52
awbefore reflash. check voltage & current14:52
errordeveloper_lekernel: ^ not sure ... I never used parsers before14:52
aw0x30 mac addr. : good on Voltage and current @ 0.53A14:53
aw0x31 mac addr. : good on Voltage and current @ 0.7A, which is bad. i am so lucky though. :(14:54
awlet's do reflash 0x30 firstly. ;-)14:54
awwhat does mean "Unknown stepping! (0011) (/usr/local/share/urjtag/xilinx/xc6slx45/STEPPINGS)" ?15:06
wolfspraulseems a newer fpga, we can probably just add that stepping15:10
wolfspraulaw: this doesn't look like it flashed anything, right?15:11
wolfspraullekernel: what do you propose for stepping 0011 ?15:12
lekerneljust add the stepping in the urjtag database15:12
lekernelsend the patch to the urjtag mailing list15:13
wolfspraulaw: I would just try to edit the STEPPINGS file, and add a line to it :-) 0011 xc6slx45 3 (not sure what this '1' '2' means, but maybe just make it '3')15:13
lekernelyes do that15:13
lekerneland send the diff to urjtag15:13
awwait...a moment . i quite don't know  what you said. let me paste reflash_m1.sh. ;-)15:14
lekernelI hope this stepping does not introduce new silicon bugs15:14
wolfspraulno, not reflash_m1.sh15:14
wolfspraulyou neet to edit /usr/local/share/urjtag/xilinx/xc6slx45/STEPPINGS15:14
wolfspraulit's a text file15:14
wolfsprauladd a third line to it: "0011<tab>xc6slx45<tab>3"15:15
wolfspraulof course instead of <tab> you press the <tab> key...15:15
wolfspraulthen we try again, and if we are lucky it will flash15:16
wolfsprauland if we are even more lucky, it will boot15:16
wolfspraulyeah the 0.7A doesn't look so good, oh well.15:18
wolfspraullekernel: so let's hope they have their regression management under control... :-)15:18
lekernelhave you reworked those two boards for the reset problem already?15:19
wolfspraulI'm sure he did15:19
awtemporarily forget 0x31 now. ;-) I'll need do self hard quality check my self though. ;-)15:19
awlekernel, yes, 0x30 and 0x31 with fix2 patches.15:20
wolfspraullekernel: now he will try to bring them up, but 0x31 already shows a suspiciously high current 0.7A. so he will do 0x30 first.15:20
awreflashed done15:20
awcause I knew m1 without s/w, it only surge under 0.6A. so I set my lab power supply at 0.7A limited15:22
wolfsprauloh, then 0x31 may have a really big problem15:22
awI'll take an eye on surface check again. ;-)15:23
wolfspraulaw: did you run the test software on 0x30 yet?15:23
awnot yet...15:24
awnow power off to connect all.15:24
wolfspraulok yes, let's run the whole test thing first15:24
errordeveloper_lekernel: I'm seeing this parser error: https://gist.github.com/5cfadba0701de6707444#file_llhdl_verilog_parser.y15:43
errordeveloper_any ideas ?15:43
awonly MIDI15:44
awlet's me plug out & plug in again. ;-)15:44
lekernelaw, optoisolator soldering issues again?15:44
lekernelerrordeveloper_, not off the top of my head15:45
awseems not that same before.. wait a bit..i saw the soldering pretty good. ;-)15:45
lekernelalso, you should expect issues more serious than that if you want to do anything with llhdl today15:45
errordeveloper_lekernel: I would imagine :|)15:46
errordeveloper_well .. parsers had been one thing I wanted to learn for a while15:46
wolfspraullekernel: with the .ttf files you sent me my Scribus now crashes when opening the .sla :-) I will put this aside and use the PDF you made for now...15:48
Action: kristianpaul just for curiosity try to compile llhdl in his mipsel laptop again..15:49
lekernelerrordeveloper_, atm the triple "if/else if/else" of https://github.com/milkymist/milkymist/blob/master/cores/hpdmc_ddr32/rtl/hpdmc_banktimer.v is obviously not handled correctly by the verilog frontend, that could make a nice and not too hard parser problem for you to fix15:51
awaha...i saw that D4's negative is poor soldering. good! got you.15:51
wolfspraulI want my own AOI :-) wpwrak_ - you need to write a tool that we can feed some random jpegs, taken from any cheap cellphone cam, in any angle, any lighting condition, and it will magically point out all the things it sees wrong!15:53
awthis boot.bin is newest one from xiangfu15:53
awwolfspraul, this time I bought a microscope, so I may take a lot such "surprising".15:54
awso later let's compare 0x30's init_b's voltage. shall we? I'd like to. ;-)15:55
GitHub92[scripts] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/re9OZK15:56
GitHub92[scripts/master] Fix spelling - Sebastien Bourdeauducq15:56
wolfspraulyes but I'm also interested in 0x3115:56
wolfsprauland of course we first need to confirm that MIDI now works, but it should... (as with rc2, please record all test logs, not just the final one that passes)15:57
wolfspraullost connection16:24
awhmm...after soldered D4, still fail...interesting.16:24
kristianpaulbah, cmake sucks..16:26
wolfspraulaw: measure signals?16:26
awmeasure R54~R57 is correct. forwarding voltage is 536mV.16:27
wolfspraul(or - it's late - maybe continue tomorrow?)16:27
awyeah...but let me try last one..since the midi connection were soldered by me ...ha ;-)16:28
wolfspraulwhat will you do?16:28
awwell...(late)..;-) let's do tomorrow. checked U6's body is the same 0x2F's one.16:32
awreport tomorrow morning...pheu...16:32
awoah~ wiat16:32
awmaesure init_b .;-)16:33
wolfspraulok, so we stop today with this status: 0x30 = midi, 0x31 = 0.7A. correct?16:34
aw0x30, after configuration and boot @1.3V rough16:37
wolfspraulnot surprising, but it seems we don't think this is significant or worth further investigation16:38
wolfspraulthat's my understanding at least16:38
awyes...no need to do more about this.16:38
wolfspraulalright, so tomorrow midi & 0.7A :-)16:38
awtonight use 0x30 overnight16:38
wolfspraulah good idea, yes16:39
awcu everyone.16:39
Action: roh glued 20 buttons now.16:39
awroh, nice16:39
rohwell.. half of them.. the 3mm part iss still missing (waiting for the laserstuff to return)16:39
rohthat chemical (solvent) is sick to work with16:40
wolfspraulwhat happens?16:40
rohits extremely time consuming16:41
rohi need to glue them one by one. the stuff vapourizes too fast to do more buttons in a row16:41
wolfspraulfor the future - if there is thicker acrylic, is it possible to laser the buttons out of the acrylic in one piece?16:42
rohalso i need to prepare them by peeling off the tape etc16:42
wolfspraulyes, that's nasty. I hope you have a tweezer.16:43
wolfspraulthese things are small and hard to handle16:43
wolfspraulmaybe you need to pin them down somehow, well, you will know best16:43
rohwolfspraul: then i need to make the buttons from another sheet. sure its possible somehow, but that again adds complexity to the process16:43
wolfspraulthe laser shop will deliver the lasered parts tomorrow?16:44
rohsure.. i am working with tweezers. will not touch the stuff with hands.. i use 2 gloves per hand and tools, and also enable the exhaust air system16:44
rohnot sure. i hope so16:44
rohbut at the current speed i dont know how long i will need to glue the buttons yet anyhow16:44
rohand goggles16:44
rohand these arent even the right ones. the gloves i should use cost 100E a pair16:46
awneed to go...night :)16:48
--- Wed Jul 20 201100:00

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