#milkymist IRC log for Sunday, 2011-07-03

wolfspraulwhat's the download link for the fisl talk? (not the vimeo one)00:04
sh4rm4http://www.milkymist.org/rejon.ogv ?00:55
wolfspraulthat's what I'm downloading atm, but not the original source00:56
wolfspraulI'm looking for a download of Werner's copyleft hardware talk too, if one exists00:56
wolfspraulsh4rm4: but thanks, yeah! I found that one already as well :-)00:56
sh4rm4oh btw, since i heard that you work on a linux port (again), you may be interested in the bloat-free musl libc @ http://www.etalabs.net/musl/01:02
sh4rm4porting it to another cpu arch is pretty straightforward01:02
wolfspraulthanks for the link01:03
wolfspraulyou mean running the Linux kernel on m1?01:03
wolfspraulI don't plan any effort in that direction, I'm very excited about the possibilities of a pure video synthesizer, and RTEMS is just fine for that01:03
wolfsprauland all feedback I get regarding Linux is that Linux without MMU is not a good idea01:04
sh4rm4the guy in the speech said something about a port thats currently being done01:04
kristianpaulbut have drivers.. well01:04
wolfspraulmaybe but why do you think that's me? I am mostly working on manufacturing issues01:04
wolfsprauldealing with vendors, quality issues, getting the whole package together, production testing, etc.01:04
sh4rm4well, "you" in english can be singular and plural01:04
sh4rm4i meant it in the plural sense01:05
wolfsprauloh I see :-)01:05
wolfspraulyou speak to the whole group here01:05
wolfspraulI think Takeshi Matsuya's Linux effort has halted01:05
wolfsprauland I also haven't seen Lars doing much on m1 lately01:05
kristianpaulbut mwalle and larsc are doing some things i think01:05
wolfspraulah ok01:05
wolfspraulthat would be fantastic :-)01:06
kristianpauljust not ready i guess01:06
wolfspraulthere was some serious MMU planning, which is archived on the list01:06
wolfspraul(for reference, if anyone is interested...)01:09
wolfspraulsh4rm4: so that's all I know about Linux on m1 :-)01:09
kristianpaulimo will be cool to run linux inside an arm cpu inside fpga01:09
sh4rm4oh thanks for the links01:10
sh4rm4having linux could attract more developers01:10
wolfspraulyou are welcome!01:10
wolfspraulsh4rm4: if you can help with the MMU, you would make a lot of people happy01:10
kristianpaulbecause a generic os is a basis for mosts platforms01:10
kristianpaulmy opinion of course01:10
sh4rm4sorry i have no HW knowledge at all01:10
wolfspraulI am focusing on the manufacturing side and really making this a great video synthesizer, so I only have time and energy to motivate people about such tasks, can't do anything myself...01:11
wolfspraulkristianpaul: you mean a soft-arm or an arm+fpga combo chip?01:11
kristianpaulwolfspraul: arm+fpga combo01:11
wolfspraulI can't see either one going very far01:11
kristianpaulsofr arm no01:11
wolfspraulkristianpaul: when thinking about this stuff, keep one thing in mind. The decisions about where things are moving are made on economics, not technology. Especially not free software.01:12
kristianpaulgood point01:13
wolfspraulso in order to understand where these combo chips are moving, one would need to see the exact numbers of what the different companies are investing, in what timeframe they want to recoup their investments, which kinds of volumes that requires and in which markets they believe they can generate these volumes.01:13
wolfspraulnothing else matters01:13
wolfspraulI have no insight into any of those numbers, I think nobody but those few companies themselves has.01:13
kristianpaulso you think it wil die soon?01:14
wolfspraulbut I feel uneasy throwing myself into such a pool and becoming totally dependant on it.01:14
wolfspraulI don't know. that's my point.01:14
wolfspraulbut when I get up in the morning, I want to be excited about the day01:14
wolfspraulI don't want to be in a mood like "let's just wait through the day, in the evening we will know a little more"01:14
kristianpauldependant, yeah..01:15
wolfspraulmaybe I first try to get hired by those corps, go to my cozy cubicle every day, then I don't mind :-)01:15
wolfspraulI would never want to participate in this from the outside as a small independant business. too risky.01:15
wolfspraulkristianpaul: hey come on, you just want to be lazy and not get the MMU & Linux port going on m1 :-)01:16
Action: kristianpaul dont like MMUs01:16
kristianpaultoo complicate, but awesome confort for software development01:17
kristianpaul(lazy) may be, but dont image how usefull this linux will be when done01:18
wolfspraulthat's why we have RTEMS today, no?01:18
kristianpaulanyway... back to re-use and find new ways to make things work in milkymist01:18
kristianpaullike having no place to save 1Gb of raw sampled data :)01:19
wolfspraulstill having that problem?01:19
wolfspraulmaybe just try to process it live01:19
wolfspraulif it's too hard to move it elsewhere, so what01:19
kristianpauli'm that01:19
kristianpaulthe problem is01:19
kristianpaulabout sige 416201:20
wolfspraulinstead of spending weeks/months on that, since it is not the final goal anyway, add the on-board processing first, then the moving data problem will go away01:20
kristianpaulthats true01:20
kristianpaulin part01:21
kristianpaulbecause osgps dont have support for complex data from sige, i changed the chip mode to real01:22
kristianpaulthat means more data per second, but osgps and some matlba code david and i ported to octave know is helpfull01:22
kristianpaulbut you are right, i alread had spended something that is not part of the main goal01:23
kristianpauls/something/lot of time in01:23
kristianpaulokay i'll write that mail to namuru developer and finish the port01:24
kristianpauland find later how to ran osgps inside rtems and give support for namuru or end doint something my self to drive the namutu correlator, and process navigation data01:25
wolfspraulis it possible to run milkymist one rendering in qemu?02:07
kristianpaulif you managed too ;)02:28
kristianpauli tried but my CPU go 100% and well.. i got my real m1 and i stoped trying again02:28
kristianpaulmake sure you can do 3d acceleario i think02:28
Action: kristianpaul just sent mail to namuru developer, including a intro about milkymist SoC of course 02:29
wolfspraulok got it [render in qemu] it sounds like too much hassle02:32
wolfspraulI was wondering whether I can use that way to record performances, but with real-time and audio in etc. I'm sure it will all be quite a headache02:33
wolfspraulmaybe one could slow down everything, say to 1fps, and then put it back together into a 30fps recording? :-)02:33
wolfspraulbut the audio-in would need to be in sync still, not sure whether that's possible02:33
kristianpaulbetter buy a video card and plug vga out from mm1 :-)02:38
GitHub187[extras-m1] yizhangsh pushed 2 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/k0uCBM05:14
GitHub187[extras-m1/master] 3 new label files for printing factory - Yi Zhang05:14
GitHub187[extras-m1/master] removed 3 new added label files - Yi Zhang05:14
GitHub140[extras-m1] yizhangsh pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kPg5GC05:31
GitHub140[extras-m1/master] remove the file mistakenly added. - Yi Zhang05:31
GitHub158[extras-m1] shiyele pushed 2 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/lTC4oX07:16
GitHub158[extras-m1/master] box_artwork update - Wolfgang Spraul07:16
GitHub158[extras-m1/master] Merge branch 'master' of github.com:milkymist/extras-m1 - Wolfgang Spraul07:16
lekernelwolfspraul, I dumped the stream... usually the fastest way to get videos out of a conference07:24
lekernelso there's no other way to download it atm (as far as i know)07:24
wolfsprauli see07:24
lekernelbut yeah the video quality isn't very good and the beginning is missing07:25
wolfspraulmaybe the download link shows up soon. I also want werner's talk anyway.07:25
GitHub101[extras-m1] shiyele pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/mOm7tG10:16
GitHub101[extras-m1/master] cosmetic update - Wolfgang Spraul10:16
GitHub106[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/mFhzPT10:57
GitHub106[flickernoise/master] Web update: count local and remote patches - Sebastien Bourdeauducq10:57
lekernelkristianpaul, what to expect from a project like namuru?11:02
lekernelany new (and probably illegal or at least US-irritating) features, or just an "open" clone of the small modules found in phones today?11:03
wolfspraulillegal features :-)11:17
wolfspraullekernel: what do you mean with 'expect'? you don't understand what namuru does?11:18
wolfspraulout for dinner, bbiab11:19
lekernelis it just a normal GPS, or would it e.g. bypass civilian altitude and speed restrictions, or provide functions to break the Y-code ?11:21
wolfspraulwhat is an 'illegal feature' btw? I found the news about Fedora excluding some SQL attack tool the other day quite interesting, made me think11:21
wolfsprauldon't know, maybe kristianpaul knows.11:22
lekernelwolfspraul, the drawing is missing from your pdf export11:30
lekernelthe back of the box appears entirely blank11:30
lekernelalso, remove "128MB DDR SDRAM", as people will think "computer" and "we have DDR3 now"11:31
lekernelyou definitely should print the drawing - if you think the transparency will create problems at printing, just make an export of it with a white background ...11:36
lekernelworst case export to bitmap11:37
lekernela 300dpi drawing is better than no drawing11:37
lekernel[{#«~#{[! libcurl won't automatically encode spaces in urls ...12:12
lekernelonly insist that the URL is enough conformant so that libcurl can use it,12:12
lekernel    accepting all possible violations you can do while still making it mostly12:12
lekernel    look like a URL to libcurl.12:12
lekernelgnah gnah gnah12:13
lekernellet's strictly respect the standard and waste everyone's time12:13
lekerneland of course the somehow equally stupid C library doesn't provide a search and replace function for strings12:15
GitHub116[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/l3LkVB12:16
GitHub116[flickernoise/master] Web update: patch pool download - Sebastien Bourdeauducq12:16
lekernelah, they finally added an option to libcurl12:17
lekernel[{#«~#{[!!!! this crap function encodes the / in http://12:23
lekernelwhy why why????12:23
lekernelhttp://www.mail-archive.com/curl-library@cool.haxx.se/msg00992.html what a stupid API ...12:31
wolfspraullekernel: one by one12:45
wolfspraulI removed the drawing, for now, because throwing it on the back is not right12:45
wolfspraulI wanted to make a first draft, and there it is12:45
GitHub44[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/mLbiEZ12:46
GitHub44[flickernoise/master] Web update: encode special characters in filenames - Sebastien Bourdeauducq12:46
wolfspraulit's not a great design, but at lease somewhat consistent12:46
wolfspraulI will now make a second one, and the drawing comes to the front side12:46
lekernelthe front side will become a bit loaded - there's already the photo on it12:46
wolfspraulwell, I see12:47
lekernelimo it's better on the back12:47
wolfspraulalso it may be quite big12:47
wolfspraulnobody will see it there12:47
lekerneljust throwing it on the back is better than nothing12:47
wolfspraulmaybe I replace the device part in the drawing with a small photo?12:47
wolfspraulhe :-)12:47
wolfspraulalright alright, probably you are right12:47
lekernelno, there should be a large picture on the front12:47
wolfspraulif we cannot get our act together and make a really nice box, then of course the drawing on the back is better than an empty back12:47
wolfspraulyou beat me :-)12:48
wolfspraulI put it back there...12:48
wolfspraulbut I still hope this is only a draft, and somehow we get a better design. your drawing is a good start.12:48
wolfspraulJon is flying around a bit, I'm not sure when he sees this and whether he has time on a flight for some design...12:48
lekerneland this diagram must be there - it does make a big difference wrt whether people understand what this thing is about or not12:48
wolfspraulI didn't remove it because I didn't like it, but because I thought we should design the entire box around it12:49
wolfspraulI tried to email the stuff before Jon's long flight out of Brazil, but I'm not sure whether I made it, and whether Jon is in work mood on the flight :-)12:50
lekernelinteresting: dividing by zero immediately freezes the board (without error message) and GDB gives a wrong program counter in 0x100...13:01
lekernelthis should be made easier to debug13:01
GitHub67[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/k45cmQ13:03
GitHub67[flickernoise/master] Web update: do not divide by zero when there are no patches to download - Sebastien Bourdeauducq13:03
GitHub114[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/jTYNKO13:11
GitHub114[flickernoise/master] Web update: do not crash on zero length files - Sebastien Bourdeauducq13:11
lekernelok web update should be done now13:11
GitHub161[extras-m1] yizhangsh pushed 3 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/lP2CIV13:13
GitHub161[extras-m1/master] Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/milkymist/extras-m1 - Yi Zhang13:13
GitHub161[extras-m1/master] add printing notes file for mac address label - Yi Zhang13:13
GitHub161[extras-m1/master] modified 5 label files - Yi Zhang13:13
GitHub76[extras-m1] yizhangsh pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/l3tZlu13:21
GitHub76[extras-m1/master] saved file as plain svg instead of inkscape svg - Yi Zhang13:21
GitHub79[extras-m1] shiyele pushed 2 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/jtPB4i13:27
GitHub79[extras-m1/master] put drawing back on backside (as png for now to be safe) - Wolfgang Spraul13:27
GitHub79[extras-m1/master] Merge branch 'master' of github.com:milkymist/extras-m1 - Wolfgang Spraul13:27
GitHub180[extras-m1] shiyele pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/jsClcp14:11
GitHub180[extras-m1/master] added missing graphic, removed memory ref as per Sebastien - Wolfgang Spraul14:11
lekernelmwalle, when IE.IE = 0, are debug exceptions enabled or not?14:44
lekernelright now, when there's a divide by 0 (or another exception)14:45
lekernelthe RTEMS CRT simply branches to the corresponding exception vector in the debug ROM14:45
lekernelthis is great if GDB is already attached, because it will send immediately a signal to it14:46
lekernelbut if you attach GDB after the crash, GDB will send a break and go into the breakpoint vector _from the already running debug ROM_14:46
lekernelso you end up seeing the stack, code, etc. of the debug ROM instead of the program you want to debug14:47
kristianpaullekernel: open clone of a small module used to be in gps receiver 10 years ago, and yes illegal features can be implemented as well :-)14:48
kristianpaullekernel: Precision_code is not up to namuru, that first will need a gps frontend that works on the L2 band too, also crack the misterious 2 bit security on that code ;)14:50
kristianpaullekernel: yes by pass altitude one of then14:50
lekerneli'm disabling break in the GDB stub ROM now. it works, but there is a (small) race condition window.14:57
GitHub174[milkymist] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kXEgYp14:58
GitHub174[milkymist/master] gdbstub: disable break on entering debug ROM - Sebastien Bourdeauducq14:58
GitHub195[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/klmB5Q16:02
GitHub195[flickernoise/master] Web update: ensure that the patch pool directory exists - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:02
GitHub143[flickernoise] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/m835kk16:08
GitHub143[flickernoise/master] Web update: ensure that the patch pool directory exists (2) - Sebastien Bourdeauducq16:08
lekernelmh, I also get freezes when using xiangfu's latest flash script16:15
lekernelnice. this sounds like a lot of production fun is upcoming16:20
lekernelomg :'((((16:20
methrilhi all, what the autotest-m1 project does? it's for Factory Acceptant Tests and MMOne production?16:22
lekernelwhat the flying fuck is going on with urjtag now?!?16:25
lekernelI used this thing dozens of time, no problem16:25
lekernelnow rejon and I cannot flash 2 times out of 316:26
kristianpaulbut you not in fedora 15 right?16:31
lekerneli'm in fedora 15, and I remember a libusb update going by recently16:31
kristianpaultell what you did i can do it here16:31
lekerneli'll try to find an old package and downgrade ...16:31
kristianpauli reflash almost every day, no problem so far16:31
lekernelyeah it used to go flawlessly here as well16:31
lekernelphew. i'm so tired of problems like that :'(16:32
lekernelmassive waste of time16:32
GitHub92[rtems-milkymist] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/mGT1Hb17:07
GitHub92[rtems-milkymist/master] ethernet: fallback MAC address - Sebastien Bourdeauducq17:07
mwallelekernel: mh why does it jump to DEBA?20:51
mwalleinstead of EBA20:51
mwalleif IE.IE=0 debug exceptions should still be enabled20:52
mwallelekernel: (libusb) so -7 and -9 versions are FC package versions?20:52
mwallediv by zero should jump to EBA+offset, where sth useful should be done, eg print register dump, then loop forever, or just loop forever20:54
lekernelit initially jumps to EBA, but the RTEMS CRT just calls the DEBA entry23:38
--- Mon Jul 4 201100:00

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