| kristianpaul | he, i almost forgot, now that minimac core dont use DMA i can port it to the avnet, but now i need a PHY.. wich i dont wish to import :-) | 00:13 |
|---|---|---|
| wpwrak | lekernel: (clang) interesting. it's always good to have a second compiler to try things with. | 00:50 |
| lekernel | http://okcon.org/2011/programme/open-science-open-data-open-minds "Welcome to the future of recreational drug use." | 08:40 |
| wpwrak | lekernel: (recreational drugs) love it ;-) | 10:27 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul, NTSC works by the way | 13:06 |
| lekernel | (from the wiki "Support for NTSC, SECAM, component video, or even multiple multiplexed signals may be possible but is currently unsupported.") | 13:06 |
| lekernel | component video and s-video require an additional little bit of software support, but is definitely possible | 13:07 |
| lekernel | I tested a NTSC source a while ago | 13:07 |
| wolfspraul | I thought you said earlier it's hard? | 13:07 |
| lekernel | I'm talking about the video _input_ right now | 13:07 |
| wolfspraul | ah ok | 13:07 |
| lekernel | i'm writing the leaflet atm | 13:14 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul, what cables are we including among those? http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_accessories#cables | 13:14 |
| wolfspraul | all of those | 13:16 |
| lekernel | the ones that I see very useful are USB and RCA (or alternatively the little stub that xiangfu sent me) | 13:16 |
| lekernel | ok | 13:16 |
| wolfspraul | we can remove later when we get feedback | 13:16 |
| wolfspraul | I want to remove use obstacles | 13:16 |
| wolfspraul | not satisfied with the low usage rate of rc2, so this time I want to leave less chance for not doing anything with the box :-) | 13:16 |
| lekernel | rc3 will be a totally different experience... if we get the remaining software items done in time for the flashing (which might need kicking a few asses) we could definitely push it to VJs and artists directly | 13:18 |
| lekernel | but yeah, good idea to include more cables, especially given how much they cost in europe | 13:19 |
| wolfspraul | they cost me about 1 usd each :-) | 13:20 |
| wolfspraul | I'm more worried about weight than cost | 13:20 |
| lekernel | ok, listing in leaflet is: | 13:23 |
| lekernel | \item a Milkymist One video synthesizer | 13:23 |
| lekernel | \item a CVBS mini-camera | 13:23 |
| lekernel | \item a rubber USB keyboard | 13:23 |
| lekernel | \item a jack-jack and a jack-RCA audio cables | 13:23 |
| lekernel | \item an Ethernet cable | 13:23 |
| lekernel | \item a 5V power supply adapter for the Milkymist One | 13:23 |
| lekernel | \item a 12V power supply adapter for the camera | 13:23 |
| lekernel | \item developer tools (optional): | 13:23 |
| lekernel | \item a JTAG and serial USB adapter | 13:23 |
| lekernel | \item a USB cable | 13:23 |
| lekernel | sounds good? | 13:23 |
| lekernel | ah, forgot the camera cable | 13:24 |
| wolfspraul | lekernel: ah you're back | 14:02 |
| wolfspraul | so yes the list is correct | 14:02 |
| wolfspraul | the remote control is up in the air right now, as you know | 14:02 |
| wolfspraul | maybe instead of 'rubber' you should say silicone keyboard? | 14:03 |
| wolfspraul | is silicone the same as rubber? | 14:03 |
| wolfspraul | checking :-) | 14:03 |
| wolfspraul | looks like there are many 'silicones' and they are rubber-like | 14:04 |
| wolfspraul | well, I'm pretty sure the keyboard makers are 'silicone makers' so they use silicone | 14:05 |
| wolfspraul | I could ask for more details what they use chemically, but I think silicone keyboard is better than rubber keyboard | 14:05 |
| wolfspraul | the developer tools are not optional, they will be included with every rc3 | 14:06 |
| wolfspraul | I have too little feedback right now to remove anything, it's too early. | 14:06 |
| wolfspraul | hopefully with rc3 we get more real-use feedback and can then remove some stuff in rc4 | 14:06 |
| lekernel | imo we should be able to make them optional pretty soon | 14:08 |
| wolfspraul | yes but too early to decide now | 14:08 |
| wolfspraul | 'silicone keyboard' ok with you? | 14:08 |
| wolfspraul | it's not rubber | 14:08 |
| lekernel | ok | 14:09 |
| wolfspraul | remote control is moving, if everything goes well one will be included | 14:09 |
| wolfspraul | but there are still some moving pieces as you know... | 14:09 |
| wolfspraul | maybe you add it to the list once we know it's all finalized | 14:09 |
| wolfspraul | the "CVBS camera" is typically called "CCD camera" in China, but I guess that's a matter of preference | 14:12 |
| wolfspraul | I wouldn't know what either is :-) | 14:13 |
| wolfspraul | it does have a CCD sendor (Sony 1/3''), not a CMOS sensor | 14:13 |
| wpwrak | what are "developer tools" ? a CD with gcc ? | 14:16 |
| kristianpaul | I tought was with fedora FEL | 14:17 |
| kristianpaul | sure is not that anymore | 14:17 |
| wpwrak | but it's software ? seems odd to make that "optional". copying a CD is rather cheap. i'm sure that's what kinds in china learn even before they're weaned ;-) | 14:18 |
| wpwrak | besides, including optical media with software is so retro :) | 14:19 |
| kristianpaul | usb stick | 14:20 |
| wpwrak | pricy :) | 14:21 |
| kristianpaul | or the leaflet just poiting to a wiki and xiangfu scripts :-) | 14:21 |
| lekernel | it's jtag/serial adapter + pointing up usb cable | 14:21 |
| lekernel | no we don't include any software (except on the M1 flash) | 14:22 |
| kristianpaul | ah, the jtag/serial pod is optional then, i see :-) | 14:22 |
| lekernel | yeah we should make it optional at some point | 14:22 |
| lekernel | maybe not for the first run3 units | 14:22 |
| kristianpaul | so webupdate is working now? | 14:22 |
| lekernel | no, afaik xiangfu hasn't touched it for... 2 weeks or something? | 14:23 |
| kristianpaul | k | 14:23 |
| lekernel | it somehow works, but it's not robust and it's incomplete | 14:24 |
| lekernel | I really hope it can be finished before the boards get flashed | 14:24 |
| wpwrak | so "development tools" is a section. \item development tools \begin{itemize} \item jtag board \item usb cable \end{itemize} ? | 14:24 |
| lekernel | yes | 14:25 |
| wpwrak | okay, makes sense then :) | 14:25 |
| kristianpaul | and later bios also may support PC free like feaures for upgrade and even rescue :-) | 14:25 |
| kristianpaul | mail to patch | 14:25 |
| lekernel | there's already rescue | 14:25 |
| lekernel | in fact, regarding software, what would be cool is get a frozen "bugfixes only" version before the boards are flashed | 14:26 |
| wpwrak | "usb cable" sounds ambiguous. can you also use it to connect the M1 as a usb device ? | 14:26 |
| kristianpaul | sure i'm just reading apple ios5 bew "features" :) | 14:26 |
| kristianpaul | (M1 as a usb device ) dont think so | 14:26 |
| kristianpaul | is it for debug mainlly | 14:27 |
| kristianpaul | and last rescue method | 14:27 |
| lekernel | I hope xiangfu can finish the webupdate fast and fix the GUI fonts and wolfgang does the german translation | 14:27 |
| lekernel | those are the only remaining blockers on software | 14:27 |
| lekernel | i've done the other tasks, unfortunately it's too often my name which appears in commit logs | 14:27 |
| kristianpaul | ;9 | 14:28 |
| kristianpaul | ;)* | 14:28 |
| wpwrak | lekernel: you should recruit some minions :) | 14:28 |
| lekernel | kristianpaul, you can definitely use M1 as USB device, see topic | 14:28 |
| kristianpaul | or focus on a SDK, mininios like SDK too | 14:28 |
| Fallenou | ~/topic | 14:29 |
| kristianpaul | yeah? let see | 14:29 |
| lekernel | there are even easter egg placeholders on the PCB for you to do that. soldering resistors into them and doing the FPGA/software work is up to you. | 14:29 |
| kristianpaul | oh, sure :_) | 14:30 |
| wpwrak | ;-)) | 14:30 |
| wpwrak | well, as long as you keep "usb cable" in the "development tools" section and don't "flatten" the list ... :) otherwise, people will think M1 plugs into their PC via usb, using that cable | 14:31 |
| kristianpaul | indeed | 14:31 |
| wpwrak | as in "i don't even know what ethernet is, but it also supports USB. great !" | 14:31 |
| kristianpaul | hahah | 14:32 |
| kristianpaul | lekernel: (to save me some readings) the firmware you used in navre was took/forked from other project or written from scratch? | 14:39 |
| lekernel | what other project could I possibly have taken that from? | 14:40 |
| kristianpaul | not sure, dont know, just asking | 14:40 |
| kristianpaul | i'm not very related to the usb world :-) | 14:40 |
| kristianpaul | ok thats an answer, thanks ;-) | 14:40 |
| lekernel | opencores only claim they have working USB controllers, but unfortunately they don't ... | 14:41 |
| wpwrak | lekernel: (navre) btw, what distressed you there ? | 14:42 |
| lekernel | ? | 14:43 |
| wpwrak | "navre" = "distressed" or "heartbroken" | 14:45 |
| lekernel | having one more thing to do myself (and a quite pesky one) because existing open source solutions are mostly bullshit | 14:46 |
| wpwrak | ah :) thought it was a statement about AVR | 14:46 |
| wpwrak | kinda like saying "a PIG16-compatible core" | 14:47 |
| kristianpaul | ;-) | 14:47 |
| lekernel | I wouldn't have taken AVR if I thought it was crap | 14:47 |
| wpwrak | hmm, yet that's what the name you picked quite strongy suggests | 14:48 |
| wpwrak | sounds a bit like "i had no other choice" | 14:48 |
| wpwrak | as in "my boss made me do it" :) | 14:48 |
| lekernel | yeah, that's basically the situation I was in | 14:49 |
| wpwrak | the kind yet quite different :) | 14:49 |
| lekernel | in hindsight I should just have stuck a proprietary USB controller in there and let some other company's engineer deal with the pesky idiosyncrasies of the USB protocol | 14:50 |
| lekernel | but the M1 boards were already out with USB PHYs only | 14:50 |
| wpwrak | anyway, just saying that i don't think anyone reads this as anything else but you expressing negative feelings about AVR/Atmel | 14:50 |
| lekernel | it's just (rightly) negative about other open source USB controllers and AVR clones | 14:50 |
| wpwrak | having it all in the FPGA demonstrates the power of your solution. so i think you did the right thing, even if it sucked | 14:51 |
| wpwrak | s/it/doing it/ | 14:51 |
| Fallenou | lekernel: I think it would be a good idea to have a UVC driver in RTEMS/Milkymist | 15:13 |
| Fallenou | to be able to plug whatever usb webcam and get video in working | 15:14 |
| lekernel | Fallenou, see topic | 15:14 |
| Fallenou | I can only see a mmlogs link in the topic, what's about it ? | 15:14 |
| lekernel | there is a gazillion things which would be good to have, but unfortunately so far there isn't a gazillion developers to make it happen | 15:14 |
| Fallenou | well I could try to do it | 15:15 |
| Fallenou | I've been looking for a few weeks at linux uvc driver | 15:15 |
| Fallenou | and am starting to hack into to since 1 week | 15:15 |
| Fallenou | into it* | 15:15 |
| lekernel | the driver isn't the only problem, the softusb firmware would need a serious overhaul as well for webcams to work | 15:16 |
| Fallenou | yes I was thinking about it | 15:16 |
| kristianpaul | JFDI? :-) | 15:16 |
| Fallenou | maybe everything needed is not yet there in the usb controller | 15:16 |
| Fallenou | kristianpaul: JEDI :) | 15:16 |
| Fallenou | the soft usb needs to be able to send SOF, manage isochronous transfers, and descriptors transfer something like that | 15:17 |
| Fallenou | it could be done in bulk too, but bulk sucks | 15:17 |
| Fallenou | so better do it in isochronou | 15:17 |
| Fallenou | +s | 15:17 |
| lekernel | also, the USB ports are full speed only (transceiver limitation) so this quite severely limits the quality of the video that could be transmitted | 15:18 |
| Fallenou | hum yes | 15:18 |
| lekernel | in the end it's going to be a huge amount of work for a mediocre result | 15:19 |
| lekernel | that being said, it'd be definitely interesting to have an open source USB controller that could handle webcams, even in full speed only | 15:19 |
| Fallenou | hum it's not enough for 640x480 YUV 4:2:2 15fps :/ | 15:19 |
| Fallenou | damn | 15:19 |
| Fallenou | would need something lik 72 Mbit/sec | 15:20 |
| Fallenou | lile* | 15:20 |
| Fallenou | like | 15:20 |
| Fallenou | yes it would be good | 15:21 |
| Fallenou | but it will be really really small resolution :/ | 15:21 |
| Fallenou | with only 12 Mbps | 15:22 |
| Fallenou | well maybe with MJPG video stream | 15:22 |
| Fallenou | but it will take CPU to show the picture | 15:22 |
| Fallenou | don't know how much cpu it takes to decode a JPG image | 15:23 |
| GitHub65 | [extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/mfBCRn | 15:32 |
| GitHub65 | [extras-m1/master] Run 3 leaflet (WIP) - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 15:32 |
| lekernel | funny, rejon's "Open clipart library" feature for inkscape has the same bugs as flickernoise web update :-P | 16:17 |
| lekernel | that is, crash when the network connection fails | 16:17 |
| wpwrak | lekernel: btw, speaking of bugs, have you seen this one yet ? https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6 | 16:32 |
| lekernel | yeah lol | 16:33 |
| kristianpaul | heheh | 16:37 |
| kristianpaul | blank spaces are sweet isnt? :) | 16:37 |
| wpwrak | the comments are precious, too. e.g., https://a248.e.akamai.net/assets.github.com/img/58bb0e2ff4031e355738be85c9fc59aea4eef07c/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f496d7831422e706e67 | 16:43 |
| rjeffries | wpwrak something tht could drive atusb sales would be a standalone 802.15 gadget that has various i/o for sensors including i2c, plus gpio and a few analog pins plus the radio | 17:15 |
| wpwrak | rjeffries: #qi-hardware may be more appropriate for this ? | 17:17 |
| rjeffries | sorry wrong channel my error | 17:17 |
| GitHub138 | [extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kCHTRp | 17:24 |
| GitHub138 | [extras-m1/master] leaflet: camera setup diagram - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 17:24 |
| lekernel | he, inkscape is cool :) | 17:28 |
| rejon | ha lekernel can you fix that inkscape bug too then ;) | 18:18 |
| GitHub179 | [extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/ltxgNo | 18:30 |
| GitHub179 | [extras-m1/master] leaflet: almost done - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 18:30 |
| mwalle | lekernel: please consider using status register and interrupt enables in the cores (even if it duplicates the lm32 interrupt pending mechanism), writing proper drivers for linux is a pain in the ass atm :( | 18:45 |
| lekernel | why? | 18:46 |
| mwalle | eg i have to poll the cpus pending register within the uart driver | 18:46 |
| lekernel | sounds a lesser evil than duplicating stuff in hw | 18:47 |
| mwalle | so the driver for the core have to be in arch/lm32 and cant be reused for other archs | 18:48 |
| lekernel | seems about right, since the uart hardware itself can't be used with archs that do not have a similar interrupt mechanism in the cpu | 18:49 |
| lekernel | _or_ we can remove the lm32 interrupt pending mechanism from the CPU and put it in the cores | 18:50 |
| lekernel | so it's more "standard" | 18:51 |
| lekernel | it'll be a bit of work though | 18:51 |
| lekernel | and it can impact performance (maybe by a negligible amount) as the CPU will have to issue bus cycles to check interrupt status | 18:52 |
| mwalle | whats so evil with duplicating a resettable bit in the cores? the lm32 interrupt controller are basically 32 ff? | 18:55 |
| GitHub28 | [extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kDo35o | 18:56 |
| GitHub28 | [extras-m1/master] leaflet: add logo - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 18:56 |
| mwalle | btw im trying to get device trees working with lm32 | 18:56 |
| mwalle | so my first OF driver will be the UART one ;) | 18:56 |
| lekernel | maybe we can simply use level sensitive interrupts, so the LM32 needs no FFs to store the interrupt status | 18:57 |
| azonenberg | lekernel: So my hardmask cracked and broke off during the etch step | 18:57 |
| azonenberg | But i feel like i'm getting very close | 18:58 |
| lekernel | make the IP register read only (just read the interrupt signals from outside the CPU) | 18:58 |
| lekernel | and keep the interrupt states in the cores only | 18:58 |
| lekernel | actually this would remove the bit of redundancy we have with the minimac2 core atm | 18:58 |
| lekernel | would that be ok? | 18:58 |
| lekernel | azonenberg, yeah I read that. but very good results still :-) | 18:59 |
| azonenberg | I got the hardmask on there, and in the past i've used the hardmask successfully | 19:00 |
| azonenberg | i think it was either thermal shock (I did a cold rinse then a hot etch right after baking), trying to etch too deep too fast | 19:00 |
| azonenberg | or the hardmask being too thick | 19:00 |
| azonenberg | One drop wasnt thick enough but two was too much, i think i might need to do several depositions using a dilute solution | 19:01 |
| azonenberg | if it's too thick in a single layer it'll crack more readily | 19:01 |
| GitHub163 | [extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kvtJDC | 19:03 |
| GitHub163 | [extras-m1/master] leaflet: fix Makefiles - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 19:03 |
| GitHub139 | [extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/jC26Wb | 19:08 |
| GitHub139 | [extras-m1/master] leaflet: updated EDK leaflet - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 19:08 |
| lekernel | http://www.milkymist.org/leaflets/run3_leaflet.pdf | 19:12 |
| kristianpaul | (leaflet) looks, like a lot of fun and out of the box experince :-) | 19:17 |
| kristianpaul | i dont remenber, is rc3 provided with the case already assembled? | 19:20 |
| kristianpaul | s/rc3/run3 | 19:20 |
| kristianpaul | btw the the super-easy steps dont talk about line in | 19:23 |
| kristianpaul | i bet there are lot of people with a portable audio device who want to plug in and feed the effects too | 19:23 |
| kristianpaul | not saying of course that built-in mic isnt cool for feeding effects related to the locally "sound landspace" | 19:25 |
| lekernel | yes, we _should_ have the case assembled | 19:46 |
| lekernel | even with a nice cardboard box containing accessories, etc. | 19:47 |
| wpwrak | lekernel: hmm, the girl looks like a 2D projection, not like a 3D person standing in front of a screen | 19:50 |
| lekernel | yeah well... I already tried to fix that but failed to get good results with the inkscape "perspective" effect and gave up | 19:52 |
| wpwrak | draw a little shadow ? | 19:52 |
| wpwrak | some of the padding of lines is excessive. maybe use \raggedright ? | 19:54 |
| wpwrak | i actually wonder why latex did them so poorly. maybe it just needs a \par | 19:55 |
| wpwrak | hmm. if you have color printing, the "{\bf green} RCA" could actually be green ;-) | 19:57 |
| lekernel | the run 3 is already complicated enough without color printing | 19:59 |
| lekernel | so I just put \par at the beginning? | 19:59 |
| wpwrak | lemme have a look at the source ... | 20:00 |
| lekernel | https://github.com/milkymist/extras-m1/blob/master/leaflets/run3/run3_leaflet.tex | 20:00 |
| wpwrak | thanks ! | 20:00 |
| wpwrak | putting a blank line between "Press the middle pushbutton on the Milkymist One to start." and \includegraphics should improve the formatting | 20:01 |
| wpwrak | (of the paragraph above the picture) | 20:02 |
| wpwrak | similar for all the other images | 20:02 |
| lekernel | ! Class leaflet Error: The text you supplied fills more than six pages | 20:04 |
| lekernel | (leaflet) and will therefore not fit onto a single flyer. | 20:04 |
| wpwrak | does the meta key on the rubber keyboard really not have a label ? and they key next to it neither ? | 20:04 |
| wpwrak | well, you can worry about the size later :) | 20:04 |
| lekernel | it has a windows label that we probably are going to remove/replace at some point, so ... | 20:04 |
| wpwrak | (window label) hmm, tricky. the key next to ctrl has that "menu" label then ? | 20:05 |
| GitHub85 | [extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/lHEGeu | 20:08 |
| GitHub85 | [extras-m1/master] leaflet: fix padding (thanks Werner) - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 20:08 |
| wpwrak | keyboard mouse isn't quite intuitive. may be clearer if you show the combinations, e.g., with a "bridge" from Meta to Enter with "Click" written above and a bridge between Meta and a bubble around the cursor keys for "Move Mouse Cursor". not sure if it's worth the effort, though | 20:08 |
| wpwrak | got the girl picture. maybe if you just make her feet cross the bottom line, that could be enough. real people rarely float in front of screens ;-) | 20:09 |
| wpwrak | s/got/for/ | 20:10 |
| wpwrak | hah, s/internet/Internet/ ;-) | 20:10 |
| wpwrak | and s/network do not/network does not/ | 20:10 |
| wpwrak | "minijack" is 3.5 mm ? | 20:14 |
| GitHub40 | [extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/iA7UDe | 20:14 |
| GitHub40 | [extras-m1/master] leaflet: typos (thanks Werner) - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 20:14 |
| lekernel | yes | 20:16 |
| lekernel | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Triple_Contact_Plug_1907.png :-) | 20:16 |
| wpwrak | maybe mention the diameter. never heard of "minijack". also, what is considered "mini" changes with time ;-) | 20:18 |
| lekernel | well, they'll have the device and cables just in front of them, and it's a very common plug | 20:19 |
| wpwrak | it's a bit unfortunate that de-vel@lists.milkymist.org got hyphenated. maybe use \hbox{devel@lists.milkymist.org} | 20:19 |
| wpwrak | or \mbox{...} :) | 20:21 |
| lekernel | hbox works | 20:22 |
| GitHub194 | [extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kKGzrW | 20:29 |
| GitHub194 | [extras-m1/master] leaflet: hyphenation (thanks Werner) - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 20:29 |
| wpwrak | that's all i found. looks very nice ! | 20:30 |
| GitHub90 | [extras-m1] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/iMTk3K | 20:46 |
| GitHub90 | [extras-m1/master] leaflet: fix logo - Sebastien Bourdeauducq | 20:46 |
| mwalle | lekernel: yeah that should work, but you'll sacrifice compatibility (with other lm32 cores) just to save some FF? | 21:21 |
| lekernel | it's not only about saving some FFs, it's about having a clean design | 22:42 |
| lekernel | what's the point of clearing IP when interrupts are level sensitive? | 22:43 |
| lekernel | also, given the lack of LM32 developments outside of here, there isn't much compatibility to care about ... | 22:43 |
| lekernel | if edge sensitive interrupts are a mess to deal with in linux, just fix that in the processor arch... | 22:46 |
| lekernel | http://www.electrolab.fr/2011/06/19/our-hackerspace-on-local-french-television/ | 23:11 |
| kristianpaul | mm1 on tv :) | 23:22 |
| --- Mon Jun 20 2011 | 00:00 | |
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