| kristianpaul | argh, all day all wrong because a missing wire ! | 03:45 |
|---|---|---|
| kristianpaul | fortunatly sinthesis time is now 13~ minutes :-) | 03:46 |
| wolfspraul | why did it come down? | 03:57 |
| kristianpaul | well, i just disable the cores i dont need from milkymist | 04:14 |
| kristianpaul | nothing special :-) | 04:15 |
| wolfspraul | which ones did you disable? | 04:17 |
| wolfspraul | and then the synthesis time came down from how many minutes to 13 minutes? | 04:17 |
| wolfspraul | just curious to better understand the whole thing... synthesis time is quite important in effective fpga development work, from what I can tell so far :-) | 04:18 |
| kristianpaul | disable usb, tmu, fmlmeter, videoin, midi, dmx and ir | 04:21 |
| kristianpaul | before was 35 Minutes aprox | 04:22 |
| kristianpaul | is the only way so far to reduce, as i dont know how to hack/enable partial reconfiguration tecniques in this spartan-6, that also may allow effective development | 04:24 |
| wolfspraul | from what I understand so far, partial reconfiguration will send you into development hell | 04:25 |
| kristianpaul | surelly | 04:25 |
| wolfspraul | it's this thing that the fpga industry talks about for 10 years, but I think that never really works well enough to be usable in real life, or maybe slowly it is, on some models, with some tools, etc. | 04:26 |
| wolfspraul | not for Spartan-6, I think :-) | 04:26 |
| kristianpaul | well, i dint hear lekernel complaing about it yet ;-) | 04:26 |
| kristianpaul | indeed | 04:26 |
| wolfspraul | he stays away from it because like I said, I think it's an area where the tools are just too bad | 04:26 |
| wolfspraul | it exists 80% in marketing, 20% in technical reality :-) | 04:26 |
| wolfspraul | maybe the technical reality will catch up one day, maybe with the latest chips. For s-6, we should keep our hopes low. | 04:27 |
| wolfspraul | that's my understanding at least | 04:27 |
| kristianpaul | sure i stay away :-) | 04:27 |
| kristianpaul | i'm okay with my setup now | 04:27 |
| roh | re | 04:45 |
| roh | wolfspraul: ever seen this device? http://www.chameleon.synth.net | 04:47 |
| roh | its said to be one of the nicest devices for 'making elektronic music' due to its flexibility. there was some talk about building a new one, but so far it hasnt gotten of the ground again. old ones around are traded for good money and the community is still alive. | 04:48 |
| roh | maybe one could talk to them and see of teaming up to promote open source | 04:49 |
| kristianpaul | hey, good way of doing parties on datacenters ;-) | 04:50 |
| kristianpaul | s/on/at | 04:50 |
| wolfspraul | roh: excellent link, thank you very much ! | 04:52 |
| wolfspraul | I need to read through this a little, for now I've added it to the marketing leads at http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_marketing | 04:53 |
| wolfspraul | no I did not know about Chameleon before | 04:53 |
| wolfspraul | that marketing page is a mess, basically I'm just collecting all sorts of leads for now | 04:54 |
| roh | wolfspraul: well.. its not open hw and completely open source sw, but the most important parts for the users are | 04:54 |
| roh | maybe its possible to write code enabling people using a mm1 to apply their sound skins | 04:55 |
| wolfspraul | it's a nice link, very very good. Of course I don't expect people to just go crazy if they see m1, but if there is overlap, it is worthwhile to try to connect. | 04:55 |
| wolfspraul | and from just looking at their homepage for 2 minutes, I can definitely see overlap | 04:55 |
| wolfspraul | someone on the qi list pointed me to www.toplap.org, man, I had no idea something like that existed :-) | 04:56 |
| wolfspraul | Live Art Programming, urgh :-) I am sympathetic to their goals, but it sounds pretty exotic to me :-) | 04:56 |
| roh | i dunno so much about dsp(s) (yet) .. but maybe its possible to load a dsp next to the lm32 | 04:57 |
| wolfspraul | I couldn't immediately figure out whether Live Art Programming was still alive or not, most dates seems to be around 2002-2007 or so | 04:57 |
| wolfspraul | maybe a short art movement :-) | 04:57 |
| wolfspraul | their mailing list archives are only for subscribers, that's when I gave up... | 04:58 |
| wolfspraul | Chameleon sounds like closer to m1 even | 04:58 |
| kristianpaul | (dsp) of course! mm1 spartan6 have some slices for that, check DSP48A1 | 04:58 |
| roh | kristianpaul: is there free (open source) code for that? | 04:59 |
| kristianpaul | and if' i'm not bad ac97 core implemented some FIR i think | 04:59 |
| kristianpaul | roh: as open as the xilinx sinthesizer is ;) | 04:59 |
| roh | kristianpaul: because maybe one doesnt need to be binary compatible to that motorola madness to port all these filters (they are called skins) | 04:59 |
| roh | kristianpaul: well.. cores can be fixed and other codecs can be soldered ;) | 05:00 |
| kristianpaul | so about the dsp, you can implement is as xilinx library, or with a bit more of work i guess do the modeling for the accumulators and multipliers | 05:03 |
| kristianpaul | i guess | 05:03 |
| kristianpaul | (fix) i agree with first one | 05:03 |
| wolfspraul | roh: you are thinking about how to run some of the Chameleon stuff on m1? | 05:09 |
| roh | wolfspraul: exactly. what it would take to make the platform useable for people who wrote code for the chameleon before | 05:11 |
| roh | as in 'have real world experience with users on the resulting device/platform' | 05:11 |
| roh | they use a 100mips 24bit dsp | 05:13 |
| roh | fixed point | 05:14 |
| roh | they use RTEMS | 05:14 |
| roh | as an on on the coldfire cpu (40mhz) | 05:14 |
| roh | http://www.chameleon.synth.net/files/developer/pdf/chameleon_tech_breif.pdf | 05:14 |
| wolfspraul | ok, good! | 05:18 |
| wolfspraul | taking notes :-) | 05:18 |
| roh | from a first glimpse: some of the dsp code is or can be written in that specific asm | 05:20 |
| roh | and they provide you with an sdk to compile code for the dsp as well as libs to load the dsp with binaries from rtems (via header-includes etc) | 05:21 |
| roh | so porting somethint would mean removing the panel code (well.. there are 3 buttons and leds on mm1) and adding either compat layers to replicate the platform or rewriting that code portions. ah.. and redoing the asm code and or find a way to reuse it. | 05:22 |
| roh | s/hint/hing/g | 05:23 |
| -:#milkymist- [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp | 07:39 | |
| -:#milkymist- *** Notice -- TS for #milkymist changed from 1307864334 to 1253383227 | 07:44 | |
| wpwrak | (partial reconfig) i wonder why that would have to be so hard. could one not partition the resources in an fpga and treat partitions like independent chips ? (globally shared items would have to be characterized by the "core partition" and would be inputs to the synthesis of the other partition(s)) | 09:48 |
| wpwrak | this would at least allow the equivalent of separate compilation. | 09:49 |
| lekernel | what about global clock networks and long wires that go across a partially reconfigured region? | 09:55 |
| wpwrak | as long as you can characterize the clock, it would be just an input to the synthesis. just like an external clock. long wires would have to avoid the reserved partitions. | 10:04 |
| wpwrak | and of course, you would have to set aside enough room for making the necessary connections. maybe define some handover points. | 10:05 |
| wpwrak | that may be crude but it would be a start. you can always add a smarter method later :) | 10:05 |
| roh | lekernel: hey. i sent gismo your phone number. he is/was in paris and will be in france this week | 14:55 |
| roh | wanted to find out which hackerspaces to visit and who to ask | 14:55 |
| --- Mon Jun 13 2011 | 00:00 | |
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