| kristianpaul | from #fpga | 02:14 |
|---|---|---|
| kristianpaul | 21:13 < Quack> milkymist rocks....that guy is just awesome | 02:14 |
| kristianpaul | ;-) | 02:14 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: that's on freenode #fpga? does he know about #milkymist? | 02:26 |
| wolfspraul | invite him here if he likes to... | 02:26 |
| kristianpaul | sure | 02:29 |
| kristianpaul | yeah, #fpga at freenode | 02:32 |
| sqgl | Just heard about MilkyMist.org but I can't find any good demos on the site or on youtube. | 14:03 |
| sqgl | Can anyone recommend one please? | 14:03 |
| xiangfu` | sqgl: Hi check this http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2011-06-01 | 14:05 |
| xiangfu` | sqgl: there are some URL in that page. | 14:05 |
| xiangfu` | sqgl: for Video Demo, we don't have good High quality video demo. | 14:07 |
| xiangfu` | sqgl: but we have a lot of good screenshot ;-) | 14:08 |
| sqgl | Is this maybe because most of you specialise in coding rather than performance? | 14:09 |
| sqgl | I also know that screen capture takes a lot CPU | 14:09 |
| sqgl | How would Screen Shot of MilkyMist look different from a Screen Shot of MilkDrop? | 14:10 |
| xiangfu` | there are some picture are different. if there is Video-In in milkymist. | 14:11 |
| xiangfu` | check here: http://www.milkymist.org/flickernoise.html | 14:12 |
| xiangfu` | the milkymist not only take the Sound, also Video-In, OSC, MIDI .. | 14:12 |
| sqgl | Yes, I forgot about the Video In. | 14:12 |
| sqgl | I would like to see realtime reaction to OSC or MIDI though. | 14:13 |
| sqgl | I do it on PX using Arkaos and some very complex Midi-Ox programming | 14:14 |
| xiangfu` | sqgl: (screen capture) we do focus on performance, the performance is all on 'video synthesize' for now :D, step by step. | 14:14 |
| sqgl | But my laptop overheats into Thermal shutdown so MilkyMist might be a god direction for me. | 14:14 |
| xiangfu` | sqgl: (OSC) there is simple video :http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:TouchOSC-control-m1-performence.ogv | 14:15 |
| sqgl | Yes that is the kind of video I was looking for | 14:19 |
| xiangfu` | sqgl: what is 'PX'? | 14:19 |
| sqgl | But only the first controller of the four is obviously doing something. | 14:19 |
| sqgl | PX? | 14:19 |
| sqgl | Oh sorry | 14:19 |
| sqgl | XP :) | 14:20 |
| sqgl | no | 14:20 |
| sqgl | I meant PC | 14:20 |
| sqgl | (but it is running XP) | 14:20 |
| xiangfu` | sqgl: OSC, it's easy modify to support four. but we need find a good way that connect OSC and milkymist | 14:20 |
| Action: sqgl watches video again to see if he can make more sense of it | 14:21 | |
| sqgl | MIDI is crap. | 14:21 |
| sqgl | OSC is good selling point. | 14:22 |
| xiangfu` | ? | 14:22 |
| xiangfu` | oh | 14:22 |
| sqgl | MIDI clock is very bad. | 14:22 |
| xiangfu` | MIDI, I don't know much. I don't have another device have MIDI, only milkymist :) | 14:22 |
| sqgl | And you would already know about poor 127 step resolution of course. | 14:22 |
| sqgl | MIDI is very bad for live electronic music jams. I often struggle with it. | 14:23 |
| xiangfu` | (complex Midi-Ox programming) what is that. can you give me more info, for learn MIDI programming thanks. | 14:23 |
| sqgl | Mid-Ox is freeware for Windows | 14:23 |
| sqgl | It has lots of mapping options | 14:23 |
| xiangfu` | if the OSC can replace MIDI at all in your case? | 14:24 |
| sqgl | and very stable | 14:24 |
| sqgl | No | 14:24 |
| sqgl | When I play solo I use Traktor | 14:24 |
| sqgl | Which is a DJ program | 14:24 |
| sqgl | They used to have OSC but now only MIDI | 14:24 |
| sqgl | I don't know why. Maybe a licence/business decision. | 14:24 |
| sqgl | But I could map MIDI to OSC via some software I suppose. | 14:25 |
| sqgl | Do you know why the Hong Kong Shop does not have MilkyMist on its web site anymore? | 14:26 |
| xiangfu` | we out of stock. working on the RC3 now. | 14:27 |
| sqgl | Even watching that video a second time I cannot understand what soft-controls 2,3,4 do | 14:28 |
| sqgl | Is that your shop? | 14:28 |
| sqgl | (I am from Australia so I would buy from HK) | 14:28 |
| sqgl | (if I buy) | 14:28 |
| xiangfu` | not mine. our company :) | 14:28 |
| sqgl | Cool. | 14:29 |
| xiangfu` | Soft-control 2 is color I guess. 3 is the lines at bottom and top. | 14:30 |
| sqgl | But after so many years there is still not a cool video :( | 14:30 |
| xiangfu` | yes. we should do VGA-output capture for good video. | 14:30 |
| sqgl | I just found a good way to capture. | 14:31 |
| sqgl | If you use Windoze | 14:31 |
| sqgl | ? | 14:31 |
| xiangfu` | no. but I can find a Windows pc | 14:32 |
| sqgl | Then you can use MaxiVista MirrorPro | 14:32 |
| sqgl | on a second powerful PC (at your friends house if you do not have one) and use a screencapture program | 14:32 |
| sqgl | I use CaptureWiz | 14:33 |
| xiangfu` | no. it will not working. the screen is direct output by Milkymist one. | 14:33 |
| sqgl | Of course the whole point of MikyMist is that it takes the load from your CPU/GPU | 14:33 |
| sqgl | and so there should be plenty left over for screen capture | 14:33 |
| xiangfu` | you have to have some hardware to capture the VGA-OUTPUT. | 14:33 |
| sqgl | Ahhhh I understand now | 14:34 |
| sqgl | In one way I like the fact that it cannot be captured (easily) | 14:35 |
| sqgl | Very underground! :) | 14:35 |
| sqgl | Audience must be at the gig. | 14:36 |
| sqgl | Do you know anyone in Australia using it? | 14:37 |
| wolfspraul | I don't think anybody in Australia yet | 14:38 |
| wolfspraul | but... I have a question for you :-) | 14:39 |
| wolfspraul | Australia has a relatively rare mains power connector, Type I on Wikipedia's list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_power_around_the_world | 14:39 |
| wolfspraul | how are electronic products typically sold in Australia? all power supplies have this native plug right away? or they have a US plug and then some adapter? | 14:40 |
| wolfspraul | or do some of your power sockets now support US or EU plugs as well? | 14:41 |
| wolfspraul | I'm asking because I am currently working on the power supplies for our upcoming run | 14:42 |
| sqgl | No adapter. | 14:43 |
| sqgl | all power supplies have this native plug right away | 14:43 |
| sqgl | But a US plug can be twisted with pliers and it fits. | 14:44 |
| sqgl | I think all devices now need an earth pin like in that picture. | 14:44 |
| sqgl | There used to be devices without the earth pin. | 14:45 |
| sqgl | Sometimes I saw off the earth pin to prevent hoise. | 14:45 |
| sqgl | Sometimes I saw off the earth pin to prevent noise. | 14:45 |
| wolfspraul | your sockets only accept the native Australia plug? | 14:45 |
| sqgl | Yes | 14:46 |
| wolfspraul | here in China most sockets are built in such a way that you can plug almost anything in :-) | 14:46 |
| sqgl | All of the sockets in every house | 14:46 |
| sqgl | hehe | 14:46 |
| wolfspraul | ok got it | 14:46 |
| sqgl | yes, some good sockets in Thailand are like that also. | 14:46 |
| sqgl | You can use what we call a kettle cord | 14:47 |
| sqgl | which is a detachable cord for a kettle (like you use to boil water) | 14:47 |
| sqgl | It is also usually the kind of cord/plug used for CRT monitors. | 14:47 |
| sqgl | but it is maybe too large for the box. | 14:47 |
| sqgl | If you have this socket on the box | 14:48 |
| sqgl | then this cord is very easy to find. | 14:48 |
| sqgl | All geeks have a spare one lying around. | 14:48 |
| sqgl | Most consumers throw them out with there old broken goods. | 14:49 |
| sqgl | They are ignorant. | 14:49 |
| sqgl | They don't know that it is a passive device. | 14:49 |
| sqgl | And people are wasteful here. It makes me sad. | 14:49 |
| sqgl | having dinner now. | 14:50 |
| sqgl | Back in 10 minutes | 14:50 |
| Action: sqgl is away: the real world is intruding | 14:50 | |
| wolfspraul | it's called C15 here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettle_lead#C15 | 14:50 |
| wolfspraul | don't you think C5 or C7 are more common? | 14:50 |
| xiangfu` | wolfspraul: I found we don't have a mailing list for ender users. | 14:50 |
| sqgl | C15 definitely more common | 14:51 |
| xiangfu` | the Description, is 'Milkymist One, Milkymist SoC and Flickernoise developers' list' | 14:51 |
| sqgl | C7 is now obsolete because of the new law that everything must have an earth pin | 14:51 |
| wolfspraul | I'm not sure end users would even want mailing lists nowadays | 14:51 |
| sqgl | (I think it is law. I can check if you like) | 14:51 |
| wolfspraul | C5 and C7 both have earthin pins, as per the table a bit higher on that page | 14:51 |
| sqgl | C5 was only used by Compaq about 10 years ago. | 14:52 |
| sqgl | Used to cost $50 !!!!!! | 14:52 |
| sqgl | Now My Acer uses it. | 14:52 |
| sqgl | But I have not seen it on non laptop power supplies here. | 14:52 |
| wolfspraul | maybe that's a mistake in that table? don't quite understand | 14:53 |
| wolfspraul | C7 seems to have only 2 pins | 14:53 |
| sqgl | C5 has earth pin | 14:53 |
| sqgl | C7 has not | 14:53 |
| wolfspraul | then the table at the top is wrong | 14:53 |
| wolfspraul | it's a wiki, should we correct it? :-) | 14:53 |
| sqgl | I will change it. | 14:54 |
| wolfspraul | ok, but then I still think C5 is more common than C15, but you don't think so | 14:54 |
| sqgl | Then I can take the blame :) | 14:54 |
| sqgl | Not in Australia. | 14:54 |
| sqgl | C5 is very recent here. | 14:54 |
| sqgl | But I don't buy many consumer goods. | 14:55 |
| sqgl | I will ask my friends. | 14:55 |
| wolfspraul | and C15 is the kitchen thing for stuff that gets hot, the computer one is C13 | 14:55 |
| xiangfu` | wolfspraul: in my kitchen is all C13. | 14:56 |
| wolfspraul | yes please ask and just post here, whether I'm online or not. I check the backlog. | 14:56 |
| xiangfu` | C5 is used in recently IBM thinkpad | 14:56 |
| wolfspraul | sqgl: ahh, another very important thing for us... do you have any ideas of cool retail stores or small chains in Australia that could carry the m1? | 15:06 |
| wolfspraul | we think we may only have a chance to generate some sales if a store can setup a demo unit and let it run, and let people play with a remote control to iterate over patches etc. | 15:07 |
| wolfspraul | would need to be the right environment, maybe a music store or so | 15:07 |
| sqgl | cool stores | 15:09 |
| sqgl | Let me think | 15:09 |
| sqgl | By the way C7 definitely has no earth pin. | 15:10 |
| sqgl | Have change Wiki | 15:11 |
| sqgl | Have changed Wiki | 15:12 |
| sqgl | There are two big retail outlets here in Australia: | 15:13 |
| sqgl | Dick Smith, Jaycar | 15:13 |
| sqgl | Jaycar is more geeky | 15:13 |
| sqgl | Dick Smith has become more consumer electronics. | 15:13 |
| sqgl | I don't know any people who work for them (cannot help you). | 15:14 |
| sqgl | So user would control it via an iPhone/iPod/iPad? | 15:16 |
| sqgl | Apple products are a little bit too expensive to dedicate to demo use. | 15:17 |
| sqgl | And customers may steal it. | 15:17 |
| wolfspraul | can control with a 1 USD rc-5 remote control | 15:17 |
| wolfspraul | I'm not looking for big stores, maybe smaller ones that get the product and are willing to setup a demo | 15:18 |
| wolfspraul | needs to be someone who really likes it, because we have few data to promise great sales now | 15:18 |
| wolfspraul | zero data actually :-) | 15:18 |
| wolfspraul | it's more like "set this up and _maybe_ your customers will like it" | 15:18 |
| wolfspraul | retail is so competitive nowadays that most larger chains will not be interested in this type of experiment | 15:19 |
| sqgl | Yes big chains are like that | 15:19 |
| sqgl | But the Jaycar chains are very geeky | 15:19 |
| wolfspraul | where do musicians or djs go to buy stuff? | 15:20 |
| sqgl | Is this the kind of remote you are talking about? http://www.amazon.com/Canon-RC-5-Wireless-Controller-Digital/dp/B00004WCCQ | 15:20 |
| wolfspraul | when you say 'geeky' you mean computer geeks? | 15:20 |
| sqgl | yes | 15:20 |
| sqgl | computer/electronics | 15:20 |
| sqgl | I buy my stuff online | 15:21 |
| sqgl | Often from USA | 15:21 |
| sqgl | Everything much cheaper there | 15:21 |
| wolfspraul | he, only 1 button | 15:21 |
| sqgl | I am not sure why | 15:21 |
| wolfspraul | well it says 'rc-5' so it should work, yes | 15:21 |
| wolfspraul | we'll find a nice small one, maybe include with each unit, or just for retail demo packages | 15:22 |
| sqgl | How many buttons/controls would the $1 one have? | 15:22 |
| wolfspraul | when I say 1 USD I mean China purchase price | 15:22 |
| wolfspraul | that Canon thing there is a 1 USD control | 15:22 |
| sqgl | Cost to you. | 15:22 |
| wolfspraul | for Canon :-) | 15:22 |
| wolfspraul | for anybody | 15:22 |
| wolfspraul | just need to buy directly in China | 15:22 |
| wolfspraul | dealextreme.com or so | 15:22 |
| sqgl | Which is what I do with less specialised items | 15:22 |
| wolfspraul | look at that | 15:23 |
| wolfspraul | dealextreme has the same thing for 3.66 USD | 15:23 |
| wolfspraul | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/rc-5-slim-ir-shutter-remote-for-canon-digital-cameras-13090 | 15:23 |
| wolfspraul | well maybe it's nice mechanical work, and a bit lower volume, so it's 2 USD if you buy direct from the factory | 15:24 |
| wolfspraul | but anyway, rc-5 remote control will work, and is our idea for people who want to setup a demo | 15:24 |
| sqgl | Compared to music, women are much more into visuals | 15:26 |
| sqgl | I ran VJ workshops | 15:26 |
| sqgl | 9 women bu tonly 1 guy | 15:26 |
| wolfspraul | yes we are thinking about marketing m1 as a dance visualizer | 15:27 |
| sqgl | But women don't go to Jaycar | 15:27 |
| wolfspraul | something like visikorg.com | 15:27 |
| wolfspraul | sorry visikord.com | 15:27 |
| wolfspraul | this is a nice remote, very small http://www.jaecs.com.tw/Web/pddetail.asp?PID=19 | 15:27 |
| wolfspraul | but has a few buttons, I think 1 button is extreme | 15:28 |
| wolfspraul | need to ask Sebastien what he thinks the ideal number of buttons on a milkyst one remote control should be | 15:28 |
| sqgl | Visikord demo video is kind of interesting. | 15:33 |
| sqgl | It is just wo triggers, right? | 15:33 |
| sqgl | It is just two triggers, right? | 15:34 |
| sqgl | Most of the work there is done in pre sequencing the FX | 15:34 |
| wolfspraul | I don't know much about visikord | 15:35 |
| sqgl | Wow, JMJ is a childhood her of mine that inspired me to get into music | 15:35 |
| sqgl | but the music in that video is cheeeeeeesy | 15:35 |
| wolfspraul | sebastien spoke with the guy a few times. I think it's a system built out of several components, and I don't think it's actually on sale. | 15:35 |
| wolfspraul | but he definitely has some good ideas and maybe m1 can be marketed in that direction | 15:36 |
| wolfspraul | sebastien probably thought the most about it, he's not online right now I think | 15:36 |
| sqgl | In direct competition? | 15:36 |
| sqgl | You have potential for something more sophisticated as far as I can tell | 15:37 |
| sqgl | But more sophisticated does not mean more sales | 15:37 |
| sqgl | I think Visikord has the right idea. | 15:37 |
| sqgl | but there must be similar apps for Wii now | 15:37 |
| sqgl | Nobody doing interesting work here combining VJ with live video performance. | 15:38 |
| sqgl | I am it I think. | 15:39 |
| sqgl | And now I know why. | 15:39 |
| sqgl | Because the technical side is so complicated. | 15:39 |
| wolfspraul | don't know about competition | 15:39 |
| sqgl | Nobody else is mad enough. | 15:39 |
| wolfspraul | I never spoke to the visikord.com guy | 15:39 |
| wolfspraul | I don't know what he sees as competition or not | 15:39 |
| wolfspraul | that's just 1 guy, and I don't think anything is selling | 15:39 |
| wolfspraul | maybe m1 can actually help him, and he can market a set around m1? I don't know | 15:40 |
| wolfspraul | I am focusing on m1, because I manufacture that thing | 15:40 |
| sqgl | They probably thought of it and thought... no, not yet, let's wait until there are purpose built gadgets... like yours! | 15:40 |
| wolfspraul | I for sure don't see visikord as competition, no matter what he does :-) | 15:40 |
| sqgl | I have not made a video lately. | 15:40 |
| wolfspraul | that's because the potential market is huge, and what we really compete on is marketing smarts, strength of sales/distributor network, even financing (if it gets into retail) | 15:40 |
| sqgl | But ther is an old one here... | 15:41 |
| sqgl | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqEnz0_lDo4 | 15:41 |
| sqgl | Which seems to be quite popular | 15:41 |
| sqgl | but I am not happy because I did not have the audio/video mappings calibrated well. | 15:42 |
| sqgl | So you cannot really associate the dj'ing with the vj'ing | 15:43 |
| sqgl | Even though that is supposed to be the point. | 15:43 |
| sqgl | Eery DJ knob tweak or button press also controls a visual Effect. | 15:43 |
| sqgl | Also, it only uses static jpgs. Now I use webcam and avi's. | 15:44 |
| wolfspraul | m1 can only use the live video-in stream right now, no static images or static (preloaded) videos | 15:44 |
| sqgl | Hmmm, that's disappointing. | 15:45 |
| sqgl | But!..... | 15:45 |
| sqgl | I could use my existing Arkaos setup | 15:46 |
| sqgl | and output to m1 instead of to projector | 15:46 |
| sqgl | mq then goes to projector | 15:46 |
| sqgl | m1 then goes to projector | 15:46 |
| sqgl | So it becomes another layer | 15:46 |
| sqgl | I will go to Berlin in a few weeks (I hope) so I need to make my own demo video before I go. | 15:47 |
| wolfspraul | well, first of all we work on a rock solid update feature :-) so you can plug in the Ethernet from m1 to your router, press a button, and m1 will update itself and reboot | 15:47 |
| sqgl | Probably not a good time to mess abotu with a new gadget. | 15:47 |
| wolfspraul | sounds like a small thing, but that needs to work rock solid and super easy, then we can lift people from one update to another to add features | 15:47 |
| sqgl | Nice | 15:48 |
| wolfspraul | if you go to Berlin, maybe there is a chance to meet Sebastien, if that's worth it for both you and him (don't know) | 15:48 |
| sqgl | Sounds good. | 15:48 |
| sqgl | I will be linking with SHARE | 15:48 |
| sqgl | I run the sydney chapter | 15:48 |
| sqgl | http://SHARE.dj | 15:48 |
| sqgl | That might be a good way to build up credibility in the music scene. | 15:49 |
| sqgl | As a long term plan. | 15:49 |
| wolfspraul | share.dj is nice | 15:49 |
| wolfspraul | yes definitely, please do | 15:49 |
| sqgl | Maybe find one key person in each city to sell a unit at cost price to. | 15:50 |
| wolfspraul | good thing that I sell units below cost, we wouldn't want to be that bad to anyone :-) | 15:50 |
| wolfspraul | (just kidding) | 15:50 |
| sqgl | I understand markup would be about 4x | 15:51 |
| sqgl | That is normal | 15:51 |
| wolfspraul | driving the price down is a joint task, including for me the manufacturer | 15:51 |
| sqgl | for good reasons | 15:51 |
| sqgl | When I say "cost price" | 15:51 |
| sqgl | I mean the hardware price. | 15:51 |
| sqgl | which is a small portion of the overall cost. | 15:51 |
| sqgl | eg you talking here is a "cost" | 15:52 |
| sqgl | shippping, storage, testing, marketing, etc etc | 15:52 |
| sqgl | I think the current price is already reasonable for the market | 15:53 |
| sqgl | Sorry, I mean for the musicain/VJ market | 15:54 |
| sqgl | Not for the consumer dancey dance demo market though. I forgot about that angle. | 15:55 |
| sqgl | Yeah, it is too expensive for casual users. | 15:56 |
| wolfspraul | one by one | 15:56 |
| sqgl | I should have said that before. | 15:56 |
| sqgl | I wasn't thinking. | 15:56 |
| wolfspraul | I do agree on the need to drive price down, that's a feature. we will work on that feature. | 15:56 |
| wolfspraul | but right now we don't even have the product launched yet | 15:56 |
| sqgl | For now the price is just fine for musicians. | 15:56 |
| wolfspraul | we don't have the accessories complete | 15:56 |
| wolfspraul | we are working on very important software features (like update) | 15:57 |
| wolfspraul | those things get settled, then we start selling at 499 USD, then we drive the price down | 15:57 |
| sqgl | I plan to be in Berlin for two months. | 15:57 |
| sqgl | I am open to collaborations while there. | 15:58 |
| sqgl | Even programming | 15:58 |
| wolfspraul | even better | 15:58 |
| wolfspraul | let's see when Sebastien is back in this channel, his nick is lekernel. then you can go from there... | 15:58 |
| sqgl | Does Sebastian have a web site? | 15:58 |
| wolfspraul | milkymist.org | 15:58 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 15:58 |
| sqgl | You mean he owns the domain? | 15:59 |
| wolfspraul | there's also lekernel.net | 15:59 |
| sqgl | So many good things come from Berlin. | 15:59 |
| wolfspraul | he's the founder of the Milkymist project, and main developer to bring it to where it is today | 15:59 |
| sqgl | Steinberg, Ableton, Native Instruments | 15:59 |
| sqgl | And what is tha app that will pull apart the notes from a wav file for you? | 16:00 |
| sqgl | From Munich | 16:00 |
| wolfspraul | no idea | 16:04 |
| wolfspraul | for this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqEnz0_lDo4 | 16:07 |
| wolfspraul | how much time did it take you to make it? | 16:07 |
| wolfspraul | roughly... | 16:07 |
| sqgl | Melodyne! | 16:30 |
| sqgl | That is the other amazing DAW app from Germany | 16:30 |
| sqgl | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFCjv4_jqAY | 16:32 |
| sqgl | Nobody knows how they can seperate out individual notes in a (say) a guitar chord. | 16:34 |
| Action: sqgl is away: the real world is intruding | 18:00 | |
| --- Fri Jun 3 2011 | 00:00 | |
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