#milkymist IRC log for Wednesday, 2011-05-25

fpgaminerazonenberg: I am terribly excited for your work on homebrew ASICs! :D00:21
kristianpauldamn, i have problems with 'we' timings..03:12
kristianpaularghs, well at least i got ff when not rf front end, but..03:14
Action: kristianpaul realizes how usefull a "bus" tap will be03:15
azonenberglekernel: http://i.imgur.com/qT8tG.png06:36
azonenbergFinally06:37
azonenbergI added a few more tests to measure my exact FOV andcheck for edge effects06:37
rohmorning06:41
rohwhat a nice time of the day. productive. nobody else seems awake. great06:41
azonenbergLol yep06:42
rohis 8:42am here.06:42
azonenbergAnd its 02:42 here06:43
azonenbergSo not many people awake :p06:43
rohyours is even better. i get most stuff done between 2am and 6am usually06:44
rohhm. today is material ordering day.06:46
azonenbergI wish it was for me too06:56
azonenbergHave to wait for some checks to clear first06:56
rohthats what just happened to me. customers paying invoices. *yay*06:56
azonenbergYeah - a month late in this case06:56
rohthats usual. sure. have those too ;)06:57
azonenberg*want* http://www.mtixtl.com/siwafer1004diax05mm1spntypepdopedresistivities15ohm-cm.aspx07:07
fpgaminerazonenberg: is that a companion cube? :P07:26
azonenbergfpgaminer: Yes07:26
fpgaminernice07:26
azonenbergthis test mask is designed to test a couple of different things07:26
azonenbergResolution, alignment of multiple mask levels07:26
azonenbergEdge effect, exact FOV07:27
azonenbergCharacterize etch rates07:27
azonenbergAnd, in the case of the cube, the potential of etched Si as an artistic medium :P07:27
azonenbergi got the idea from http://xkcd.com/260/07:27
azonenbergExcept this is Si instead of SiO207:28
fpgaminer:P07:28
fpgaminerWhy not design a circuit in the shape of a companion cube? Then it would be both form and function!07:28
azonenbergLol the mounting will be far from ESD safe07:29
azonenbergBare ~1cm die mounted with cyanoacrylate glue to a 1 inch stainless steel disk07:29
azonenbergDebating whether to try growing thermal oxide over the Si to make it a little more scratch resistant07:30
azonenbergOr encapsulating it in some kind of polymer07:30
azonenbergIn any case when it's done, sputter in a few nm of Au or Pt07:30
fpgaminerSo will your first test be just to make sure the resolution and such is correct and the process is holding up to your hopes? No functional transistors for awhile, I assume.07:31
azonenbergCorrect07:31
azonenbergThe first functional test will be a comb drive, actually07:31
azonenbergStill no transistors07:31
azonenbergAfter that, i'll have to get some TMAH (current developer is NaOH which doesnt play well with CMOS)07:32
azonenbergTry making some simple logic cells (single inverter etc)07:32
azonenbergFollowed by a ring oscillator07:32
azonenbergI'm going to need to get myself some microprobes for testing as there's no way i can use a multimeter on these things :P07:32
azonenbergI had some around the apartment but they belonged to a former roommate who has since graduated07:33
fpgaminerYou can use a multimeter, just sharpen the probes with a knife! :P07:34
azonenbergLol07:36
azonenbergGood luck getting them to 5 micron tips07:37
fpgaminerDepends on how steady your hands are07:39
azonenbergLol07:39
azonenbergI've done microsurgery on 200um PCB traces07:39
azonenbergI've soldered 25um bond wires to probe tips07:39
azonenberg(with difficulty)07:40
azonenbergbut 5um is probably beyond me07:40
fpgaminerDaaang. I could probably never do that. My hands shake too much :/07:42
fpgaminerMakes soldering a pain07:42
azonenbergThis was a pain because i couldnt actually pick up the wire easily with my tweezers07:43
azonenbergMy new tweezers would prob make it a lot easier07:44
fpgaminerWell, even though I don't know too much about the ASIC production process, I am very excited about your work.07:45
fpgaminerHomebrew ASICs sound like a dream come true!07:45
azonenbergLol, ASIC is a ways out07:46
azonenbergBut would certainly be nice07:46
fpgaminerYeah, I know it will take a long time, but it's still really cool07:46
fpgaminerand any progress is good progress07:46
azonenberglol yep07:48
fpgaminerJust let me know when the process is advanced enough to re-create the 6502 :)07:50
azonenbergLol07:53
azonenberg4004 will probably come first07:53
azonenbergA serious goal is to make a working 1:1 replica off published mask art07:53
fpgaminerIs the mask art for the 4004 published?07:54
azonenbergYes07:55
azonenbergIn any case, copyright is expired and you could just reverse it07:55
azonenbergBut that saves us the trouble07:55
azonenbergOne question is whether my process would be compatible enough to actually use their masks07:55
azonenbergi'd be using metal gates instead of poly for example07:55
lekernelazonenberg: regarding sharpening tips, have you had a look at those DIY tunneling microscopes?08:17
azonenbergNo, the only EM i was considering making was a SEM08:17
azonenbergAnd i can buy tungsten probe tips for cheap from signatone08:17
azonenberg$55 per 5-pack08:17
lekernelhttp://www.e-basteln.de/index_o.htm08:17
lekernelhttp://sxm4.uni-muenster.de/stm-en/08:17
lekernelI'm just pointing out some ways you could make sharp tips e.g. for probing your creations ...08:18
azonenberg*reads*08:18
azonenberglekernel: This look about right? http://i.imgur.com/Mzycj.png09:45
azonenbergblue = metal 1, green = N+ diffusion, yellow = P+ diffusion, red = metal gate, white = via 009:45
xiangfuazonenberg: just want know, what are you doing?10:03
azonenberglekernel: Somebody just pointed out I forgot the N-well around the pmos device :P10:04
azonenbergfixed now10:04
azonenbergxiangfu: Homebrew MEMS and eventually CMOS fab10:04
xiangfuazonenberg: cool10:19
azonenberghttp://i.imgur.com/y7LzG.png11:04
azonenberglekernel: thoughts? This is an improved version of the last link, you can ignore that one11:05
kristianpaulhey, nice11:07
azonenbergkristianpaul: you know what it is?11:08
kristianpauld flipflop?11:08
kristianpaulah no..11:09
kristianpaulclock?11:09
kristianpauljust guessing now :_)11:09
azonenbergkristianpaul: ring oscillator11:10
methril_workthis is a new field for me.... :O11:31
lekernelwolfspraul: what are the PoE injectors for?13:38
lekernelhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_accessories13:38
wolfsprauljust an old collection of power supply pictures, mostly to compare labels and certifications and identify power supply factories13:47
wolfspraulI have those supplies because of the Elphel cameras13:47
wolfspraulstrangely enough I never even heard about power-over-ethernet before Elphel, even though it's around for so long already13:47
wolfspraulI think it never really caught on, mostly because it's patented a lot from what I've heard13:48
wolfspraulno worries, the little I learnt about PoE from Elphel was that I don't want to deal with PoE :-)13:48
CIA-51flickernoise: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r2552650 / (4 files): Make autobuild folders consistent - http://bit.ly/k4lYpW17:19
CIA-51flickernoise: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * rd9f461d / (4 files): Merge branch 'blah' - http://bit.ly/mxAuMx17:19
kristianpaul!top 2017:25
kristianpaullekernel: getting fun? :)19:49
lekernel?19:50
kristianpaulalbatart.org?19:51
lekernelyeah it's a mega-squat in paris19:51
lekernelit's about to close soon unfortunately19:51
kristianpaulmay be i missudertood the naim of the fair you were going to19:51
lekernelactually it's probably my last night here19:52
lekernelit's totally crazy stuff, a 8-story building (plus underground parkings) in the city centre - was a former bank19:52
lekernelwith air conditioners, elevators, automatic doors, etc.19:53
kristianpaullooks interesting20:02
roh  21:04
lekernelroh: ?21:32
roh-> laggy21:52
--- Thu May 26 201100:00

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