#milkymist IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-04-19

wolfspraulroh: you there?05:41
wolfspraullekernel: how strongly do you feel that the silicone keyboard should be black, not blue?08:33
wolfspraulI looked at both today and the black one looks a bit dirty/easily shows dust08:34
wolfspraulhere you see black and blue next to each other (similar to xiangfu's picture) http://szdiya.com/html_products/Silicone-keyboard-111.html08:34
wolfspraulI will try to source a few more, directly from the manufacturer. for now I assume you want black, but I'm curious how strongly you feel for it - if I think here that blue looks better, would that be OK for you?08:35
wolfspraulthen I have some mechanical feedback/questions08:39
wolfspraulone is the metal 'push' button on the DMX TX connector08:40
wolfspraulit's on the top side, but a bit hard to push down because of the acrylic over it08:40
wolfspraulcutting into the acrylic would probably look ugly, but what about finding a connector where the 'push' button is on the left side?08:40
wolfspraulthen we could move the 'DMX' label a bit to the left, and it should be easier to press the 'push' button08:41
wolfspraulthe other one is the internal microphone, whose reception is not good with a closed case.08:41
wolfspraulhow about moving that to the side a bit, and letting it point outwards, cutting a hole into the acrylic between VGA and line in/out?08:41
wolfspraulthat's all :-)08:42
wolfspraulneed to get roh's feedback on push button and microphone hole as well08:42
xiangfuone little thing: in taobao.com, there are also a convert USB--> PS2 in picture. but when you get the package. there is just don't include that converter.08:53
lekernelwolfspraul: (keyboard) it doesn't matter much...09:15
lekernelthis is cool: http://www.windfreaktech.com/ (or rather, the ad chip on it is cool... it's $13 on digikey btw)09:16
xiangfustupid question(for understanding)can we send out TV signal by using the signal generator? then if the normal tv can receive this signal by search channel? :)09:44
lekernelno, TV bands are above the 70MHz limit you have on the VGA signals09:48
lekernelbut you can generate CVBS which in turn can drive a cheap analogue modulator (you can find those e.g. in VCRs)09:49
wpwraklekernel: (rf synth) neat !09:56
lekernelhe, cool: http://www.analog.com/en/rfif-components/prescalers/products/index.html10:07
lekernelI didn't see those last time I checked10:07
wolfspraulwhat can you do with this kind of signal generator? (windfreaktech)10:37
lekernelelectronics experiments/debugging10:37
wolfspraulleading eventually to which kind of applications?10:40
wolfspraulmy imagination/knowledge is just too little to see the end application :-)10:40
wpwrakwolfspraul: you can use it to provide the RF carrier for modulators/demodulators10:42
wolfspraulok but what types of applications are realistically achievable, say with the ADF435010:43
wolfsprauldata transmission? what distance/speed?10:43
wpwrakwolfspraul: well, it needs a bunch of other chips. but the RF generator is one of the building blocks of any RF system10:43
wpwrakwolfspraul: (distance/speed) naw, nothing like this. you have to think of it as an oscillator.10:44
wolfspraulif ADF4350 would be a building block in you wifi/802.15.4/gps/3g/lte system, would that eventually work?10:45
wpwrakwolfspraul: page 24 has an example circuit that adds a bit more meat10:46
wolfspraulI still don't understand the connection to applications, which ones this could be a building block for, and which ones not10:46
lekernelwolfspraul: it's a bit like asking what the end applications of a capacitor are... that's a fairly generic building block10:47
wpwrakit could be a building block for anything in the 137-4400 MHz range. again, it's "just" the oscillator. but the oscillator is a crucial piece. get that one wrong, and the rest goes down the drain as well.10:48
wolfspraulgot it. 'anything' in that range, easy to remember :-)10:49
wolfspraullekernel: yes but that is my question, and it was answered. thanks!10:50
wolfspraulI don't like to jump to conclusions if I know I know too little...10:50
wolfspraulso I rather take the blame for asking stupid questions :-)10:50
wpwrakit could be, for example, be a building block of a little SDR system that could do IEEE 802.15.4. something to consider for the ya-mm ;-)10:51
wpwraksince you'll ask about wlan: also possible, but more demanding10:52
wolfspraulyou know I'm the last person to ask about wlan10:52
wolfspraulthen I'd rather ask about 3g/lte etc.10:53
wpwrakwell, wlan with SDR wouldn't be so bad. our biggest problem with wlan are the chips/modules.10:54
wpwrakof course, there's probably patent hell when you get near modern stuff like 802.11n and such.10:55
wolfspraullekernel: how about the other two items I had 1) 'push' button on DMX TX on left side and 2) hole for microphone11:49
lekernelI don't care either. for me, the DMX pushbutton is reached easily enough to release the cable and the mike picks up sound well enough to react in loud (i.e. typical) environments.11:52
wolfspraulok I agree that the importance of this is 'medium'11:54
wolfspraulbut you agree that 1) both of those proposals are in fact improvements and b) you are not opposed to them?11:54
lekernelwolfspraul: see? with the new protection, 20V doesn't damage the board11:55
lekernelhmm... though 1.1A hold isn't enough11:57
lekernel(and yes for those items, if you want to spend time on that... though making more people give a shit about this project would be way more important imo)11:57
wolfspraulok thx, that's settled then11:58
wolfspraullekernel: what does it mean that "1.1A hold isn't enough"?11:58
lekernelthe fuse is only rated to work continuously with a 1.1A current through it11:58
lekernelif we already draw 1A from USB that's only 100mA left for the rest11:59
lekernelso we'd need a 2A hold instead11:59
lekernelalso, the 0.21 ohm resistance would drop 0.42 volts at 2A11:59
lekernelthat's quite a bit11:59
lekernelmwalle: did you get your wm9707?12:14
carlobarhi, does milkymist linux kernel needs the fast memory link of ddr memory? im trying to run just the kernel on a digilent board. I implemented a wishbone compliant ddr controller, but neither the bios nor kernel are working, can someone help me?16:01
guyzmoEHLO milkymist16:09
Action: guyzmo has just booted the MM for the first time ;)16:09
lekernelcarlobar: it needs a working SDRAM controller, which as far as I know excludes all those which are on opencores16:10
lekernelhi guyzmo16:10
guyzmolekernel - where can I get the lm32 gcc (as source) ?16:15
lekernelbut don't use gcc 4.616:16
guyzmo4.5.2 ? 4.4.6 ?16:17
lekernelbtw xiangfu has made some automatic build scripts https://github.com/milkymist/scripts16:17
guyzmook, at first, I'm gonna try to compile LUA for thursday16:18
lekernelimo the faster way is to use Xiangfu's scripts16:18
guyzmothen I'll hack around things16:18
lekernelmh? why?16:18
scrtsif anyone's interested in lattice fpgas: http://www.latticesemi.com/products/developmenthardware/developmentkits/ecp3versadevelopmentkit.cfm16:19
scrtskinda good price16:19
lekernelscrts: indeed... and they dropped the parallel port programmer at last :p16:19
scrtsthat fpga itself costs 100 usd :)16:19
lekernelyeah, that's obviously a marketing push...16:20
lekernelwhen I saw that price it was already clear for me they probably sell at a loss16:20
scrtsstrange that they also sell their IP suites for 99usd16:21
scrtsdsp suite, video suite, etc...16:21
lekernelIP is easy to sell at whatever price since it costs nothing to duplicate16:21
scrtswell yes, afaik video suite was 995 some time ago16:22
guyzmolekernel - thanks for the script pointer ;)16:22
lekernelscrts: as a matter of fact, it's not too hard to get cheap software licenses or even boards from X & A either...16:24
scrtsyeah.. even since it is possible to get the IP for free from A16:25
lekernelDDR3-1333 memory on that lattice board?!16:26
scrtsI've contacted my distrib for it.. waiting for response:)16:28
lekernelI'm wondering if the FPGA and toolchain work well at this frequency16:29
lekernelit's not really the case with spartan616:29
carlobarlekernel: i got the controller from: https://www.das-labor.org/trac/browser/fpga/ddr. The clearBSS section of crt0.S (in bios) is made without problems, and even i can execute serialboot, but when it try to boot nothing happens16:30
lekernelthis controller doesn't work either16:31
lekernelwhy did you buy a digilent board btw?16:32
lekernelscrts: how many LUTs are in there? 33K?16:34
lekernel4 input?16:34
carlobar lekernel: i bought it last year.. i thought it would be fine.. i hadnt experience with embedded systems16:36
carlobar lekernel: do you know about any controller for 16 bit ddr memory?16:37
lekernelddr memory is always painful, especially when you need it to work really well e.g. to get Linux to boot16:37
lekernelif you want a working one, either use proprietary Xilinx IP, adapt HPDMC or try your luck with GRLIB16:38
lekernelor buy a M1 :p16:38
carlobarill try first with GRLIB, i used it with the LEON processor... the problem is to adapt the AMBA interface to a wishbone interface16:41
carlobarlekernel: adapt HPDMC would be easier?? maybe just modify the controller to perform 2 reads f 16bit instead of 1 read of 32 bits?16:52
scrtslekernel seems like yes17:04
lekernelcarlobar: no, make the memory bus 32 bit and modify the bridge18:05
lekernelPlease note that this free Diamond for Windows is valid for use only with the LatticeECP3 Versa Development Kit. The free Diamond License will be valid for one year from the activation or July 31st, 2012 at the latest.18:54
lekernelscrts: do you know anything about the lattice bitstream format btw?18:55
scrtsI know nothing about lattice, sorry18:55
scrtsare You also interested in that devkit? :)18:56
wpwraklekernel: btw, when do you think llhdl will be able to synthesize the mm1 ? or is it too early to ask ? oh, and https://github.com/lekernel/llhdl says 404. is this expected ?19:03
lekernelI don't know19:03
lekerneland yeah I renamed a lot of repositories lately19:03
lekernelscrts: maybe not now19:04
wpwrakthe link here also doesn't work: http://www.milkymist.org/fpgatools/19:04
scrtseh, I think I won't wait even if I don't need the kit this moment19:04
scrtsthat promotion someday will end :)19:05
lekernelwpwrak: https://github.com/sbourdeauducq19:19
wpwraklekernel: thanks !19:20
scrtshttp://lekernel.net/ -> Integrated video synthesiser,20:01
scrtsgood night ;)20:01
mwallelekernel: yes thanks, i havent found time to replace it yet20:30
mwallebut should be easy :)20:30
mwalleatm im trying to find a way to upgrade the uboot on my linkstation ls-xhl ..20:31
kristianpaulhi guyzmo20:31
carlobarhi, im having this error in synthesis: Symbol 'AUTOBUF' is not supported in target21:04
carlobar   'spartan3e'. I just found that suppot for AUTOBUFF was decreased. can i use BUFG instead of AUTOBUF? thanks21:04
lekernelah, they stopped AUTOBUF? funny :)21:05
lekernelthis feature almost never worked correctly. so they just gave it up it seems :-)21:05
lekernelhahaha indeed21:06
lekernel"If you are planning a new design, please avoid using the AUTOBUF primitive"21:07
lekernelthey were touting it as a major improvement a couple of months before this AR21:08
lekernelBUFG might work... if a BUFG is the correct clock buffer to use in your case (check the spartan 3e user guide...)21:09
carlobarok, thank you21:10
mwallelekernel: whats autobuf?21:13
lekernelmwalle: a netlist generic clock buffer that was supposedly turned into the right clock buffer by the p&r tool21:14
lekernelfor some reason they never got it to work21:15
lekernelon spartan6 (which was introduced at the same time as AUTOBUF) it was a complete disaster since the p&r tool _also_ never placed the clock buffers correctly. using AUTOBUF there would also trigger extra bugs when you tried to manually place the clock buffers to workaround the tool problems...21:17
lekernelwith all that crap i've spent a good week or so getting all the clocks to work on m121:19
mwallelol, ok ;)21:20
wpwraklekernel: seems that the world needs llhdl, badly ;-)22:18
lekernelhmm... chrontel vga-to-cvbs chips have 9-bit internal DACs. so with nearly 10 bits on the m1 w/ oversampling it should work nicely22:29
guyzmokristianpaul o/22:37
lekernellol http://elm-chan.org/works/crtc/elm_xilinx.jpeg22:44
wpwraklekernel: did i misunderstand the concept of these adult comics or is that a mighty long dildo ?22:46
guyzmosweet ... Undefined symbols: "_iconv_close", referenced from: __cpp_destroy_iconv in libcpp.a(charset.o)23:01
guyzmoseems like I'm gonna have links debugging for tomorrow :/23:01
guyzmoanyway, things that just work with no challenge aren't fun23:04
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