| kristianpaul | dont think so (720p) | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| kristianpaul | lars_: got boot linnux on mm1? | 00:05 |
| kristianpaul | linux* | 00:05 |
| lars_ | sort of | 00:27 |
| lars_ | both qemu and the real hw crash as soon as the kernel tries to execute a userspace application | 00:32 |
| mwalle | bFLT format? | 00:33 |
| lars_ | hm, no. although i'm using the elf2flt ld script | 00:38 |
| lars_ | but for some reason the resulting executable is still elf | 00:39 |
| mwalle | there should be two executables | 00:39 |
| roh | lekernel: you mean 720p in analog? not so much. if you can do sync on one of the signals and yuf colorspace then maybe one can use that | 00:41 |
| roh | with a vga to 3x rca cable | 00:42 |
| roh | http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/1MZfdGA6n84oONvgb9PVc_lySoqdU2pQdFIKseNDtrdeD8nncFXi4mPZg1xS3tTDpZ45_mjB0et-fXCQNb7AqaOfUkAUAYIL7Bn3vQyVNMbteMDb9Z8Aqpk3_TAZEbhnTbFGV5rxLZJTTDrJU0d8TGeUAA | 00:43 |
| lars_ | mwalle: file busybox | 00:45 |
| lars_ | busybox: BFLT executable - version 4 gotpic | 00:45 |
| lars_ | "BINFMT_FLAT: reference 0x657272 to shared library 32, killing sh! | 00:47 |
| mwalle | lars_: shared libraries? | 00:47 |
| mwalle | there is no support for shared libs yet | 00:47 |
| mwalle | only static linked bFLT binaries are working | 00:48 |
| mwalle | need to go to bed now, gn8 | 00:48 |
| lars_ | well the elf binary is build as static binary | 00:56 |
| lars_ | hm | 00:56 |
| CIA-43 | flickernoise: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r2720bdd / src/filemanager.c : File manager: clear, rename and mkdir commands - http://bit.ly/f8pQ9w | 10:11 |
| mwalle | la | 10:46 |
| CIA-43 | flickernoise: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * re1e722f / src/filemanager.c : File manager: delete command - http://bit.ly/gyzMHq | 10:58 |
| mwalle | lekernel: philpem asked me to change the jtag cores license to a more permissive one. so here it is | 11:00 |
| lekernel | bsd? | 11:02 |
| CIA-43 | milkymist: Michael Walle master * r66ffb15 / (2 files): change license for lm32 jtag cores - http://bit.ly/iiWzou | 11:03 |
| kristianpaul | new bsd ! :) | 11:09 |
| wpwrak | lekernel: did you take the screenshots for the new color theme in qemu or already with fbgrab ? | 11:49 |
| larsc | mwalle: could it be that the symbol address calculation is wrong? | 11:56 |
| larsc | all the relocations are of type LM32_32, but the data at sym_addr doesn't really look like an address that needs to be relocated | 12:44 |
| mwalle | larsc: how does it looks like? | 13:07 |
| mwalle | what does flthdr -p say? | 13:07 |
| mwalle | did you try the -a parameter for elf2flt? | 13:07 |
| mwalle | lekernel: why not? | 13:08 |
| larsc | mwalle: http://pastebin.com/HHpzSVrw | 13:14 |
| larsc | could it be that has-pic-got is causing trouble? | 13:17 |
| mwalle | yes, that flag should not be set | 13:18 |
| mwalle | are you passing the -p parameter to elf2flt? | 13:19 |
| lekernel | wpwrak: with fbgrab | 13:20 |
| larsc | mwalle: i use ld-elf2flt | 13:21 |
| lekernel | actually, qemu seems to break when you try to switch to 1024x768... i'll have a look at it | 13:21 |
| lekernel | mwalle: well, it's up to you :) as long as it's compatible with the GPL, I don't care :) | 13:22 |
| mwalle | iirc my linker parameter was -Wl,-elf2flt or -Wl,-elf2flt=-a | 13:23 |
| wpwrak | lekernel: (fbgrab) kewl. so we already have a first "real-life" usage example. | 13:23 |
| lekernel | what a bunch of crap http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/terms.aspx | 13:27 |
| lekernel | anyone already tested the "we did not sign anything" technique, like with the memory cards? | 13:28 |
| mwalle | lekernel: are you using 4 or 8 spaces per tabstop? | 13:28 |
| lekernel | mwalle: 8 | 13:28 |
| larsc | if i manually disable -p i get 'bad realoc 11,12,13' | 13:29 |
| mwalle | larsc: could you please send me the elf binary? | 13:39 |
| mwalle | bad_relocs occur when there is a unsupported reloc type | 13:40 |
| larsc | mwalle: http://metafoo.de/busybox_unstripped.gdb | 13:41 |
| larsc | 11,12,13 are all GOT related | 13:41 |
| wolfspraul | lekernel: I'd say it's as usual: 1) trade secrets 2) patents 3) copyrights 4) trademarks | 13:43 |
| wolfspraul | we can easily work without using their trademarks, that's an easy exercise | 13:44 |
| wolfspraul | trade secrets are only trade secrets as long as they are a secret, so if you find specs somewhere, it's not a secret anymore | 13:44 |
| wolfspraul | copyrights - well, we all know how this works, and of course we cannot use copyrighted material | 13:44 |
| wolfspraul | patents - that's an open ended one, we can safely assume in our case it should be mostly FUD, but you never know it would require a bit more investigation | 13:45 |
| wolfspraul | it's definitely a difficult subject. Best might be to even approach them openly about our clean-room implementation... | 13:46 |
| wolfspraul | if you get the feeling they are super aggressive, you may not want to go there even if you think the law is on your side | 13:46 |
| mwalle | larsc: whats your busybox config? | 13:47 |
| wolfspraul | I know very little about HDMI though, maybe we should research a bit. | 13:47 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul: the same protocol is used for DVI | 13:47 |
| wolfspraul | 'HDMI' is definitely a trademark already, I would think. | 13:47 |
| lekernel | and the standard (for DVI) is publicly accessible | 13:48 |
| wolfspraul | they will not help you understand which of their generous services you do not need :-) | 13:48 |
| wolfspraul | that work you have to do yourself... | 13:48 |
| wolfspraul | we need to stay away from trademarks | 13:48 |
| lekernel | which has enough information to make a FPGA core able to display pictures on HDMI displays | 13:49 |
| wolfspraul | and from copyrighted material that we have no license for | 13:49 |
| wolfspraul | and we should not do anything illegal to break into a trade secret | 13:49 |
| wolfspraul | and we should respect/work around patents as much as that is possible | 13:49 |
| wolfspraul | all obvious of course... | 13:49 |
| wolfspraul | no news | 13:49 |
| wolfspraul | well great then, seems you have a start already | 13:49 |
| mwalle | larsc: http://paste.debian.net/112846/ | 13:49 |
| lekernel | it's actually not very difficult to do | 13:50 |
| lekernel | and regarding hardware it's merely adding the connector and wiring it up to the FPGA pins (the spartan6 has built in compatible transceivers already) | 13:50 |
| wolfspraul | just stay away from their trademarks, this time from the beginning | 13:51 |
| larsc | mwalle: the same here | 13:51 |
| wolfspraul | they may very well not add much more than their trademark to an otherwise open spec, but if they do that it is still their trademark | 13:51 |
| wolfspraul | if they managed to create some value (recognition) with this trademark, then so be it | 13:52 |
| wolfspraul | we cannot use it | 13:52 |
| lekernel | but well, later. I don't even have an HDMI display to test with | 13:52 |
| lekernel | but if at some point we want to add it, it shouldn't be a big problem | 13:53 |
| lekernel | we can call it "HD connector" or something like that | 13:53 |
| wolfspraul | HD = high definition? | 13:53 |
| wolfspraul | why 'definition'? | 13:54 |
| lekernel | we'd rather not spend those 10k annual license fees plus per-device royalties... better use that money elsewhere | 13:54 |
| wolfspraul | what's the difference between VGA and HDMI? HDMI is digital, right? | 13:54 |
| lekernel | yes | 13:54 |
| wolfspraul | 'digital video output' | 13:54 |
| wolfspraul | dvo | 13:54 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 13:54 |
| lekernel | yeah :) | 13:54 |
| lekernel | could work | 13:55 |
| lekernel | I'm not sure about the trademark status of "HD" | 13:55 |
| wolfspraul | but I would err on the safe side | 13:55 |
| lekernel | there is this "HD ready" logo which is definitely trademarked - and the license, on top of being expensive, requires that you implement DRM | 13:56 |
| wolfspraul | stay away from 'HD', sounds like | 13:56 |
| wolfspraul | same as 'SD' | 13:56 |
| wolfspraul | guess the 'D' is attractive :-) | 13:56 |
| wolfspraul | we really should not piggypack on a trademark, it will backfire, for sure | 13:57 |
| wolfspraul | if they created value/recognition with this 'thing', whatever it is, then it's theirs | 13:57 |
| wolfspraul | I'm in China where people trample over trademarks all over and I know that is no fun. | 13:57 |
| wolfspraul | Nokic, Nckia, Samsnug, Smasung, Sumsung, and so on | 13:58 |
| mwalle | is DVI a trademark too? | 13:58 |
| mwalle | lekernel: my dm800 has a dvi connector with a dvi-to-hdmi cable | 14:02 |
| wolfspraul | Wikipedia says "DisplayPort has an advantage over HDMI in that it is royalty-free, while the HDMI royalty is $0.04 USD per device and has an annual fee of $10,000 for high-volume manufacturers." | 14:05 |
| lekernel | the DVI connector is rather big | 14:05 |
| lekernel | btw this "HD ready" logo thing is rather evil. make the consumers want "HD ready" products, then require DRM to be implemented to license the trademark | 14:06 |
| mwalle | minidvi? :) | 14:06 |
| mwalle | well apple crap | 14:07 |
| lekernel | now I can troll the random geek who wants HD by pointing out that they also mean they want DRM | 14:07 |
| wolfspraul | lekernel: yes sure, but remember they think they create 'value' for all sides | 14:07 |
| wolfspraul | a way to pay is a way to create value, create a product | 14:08 |
| lekernel | I think the HDMI connector is quite good... small and compatible with many devices | 14:08 |
| wolfspraul | so that's a good thing in their thinking, understandably imho | 14:08 |
| lekernel | there are also HDMI->DVI adapters | 14:08 |
| lekernel | (it's the same signaling) | 14:08 |
| lekernel | if we can use that connector without too much legal trouble, good | 14:09 |
| wolfspraul | at first I would say we can. | 14:09 |
| wolfspraul | unless they have some really evil patents on mechanical hooks in the connector. | 14:09 |
| lekernel | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface says "superseded by HDMI" | 14:10 |
| wolfspraul | unfortunately most likely they will do little to educate us - that falls 100% on us | 14:10 |
| wolfspraul | I'm not worried about this stuff, let's just be careful about the points I outlined above, as usual. | 14:10 |
| wolfspraul | trademarks to begin with | 14:10 |
| mwalle | larsc: mh i dont have any got symbols in my elf binary | 14:15 |
| mwalle | lekernel: btw you could append "pld reconfigure" to the flashall.batch script | 14:21 |
| kristianpaul | what is reconfigure for? | 14:34 |
| mwalle | kristianpaul: forces a fpga reconfiguration, eg. loading its configuration again (from strapped source, that is nor flash) | 14:48 |
| kristianpaul | mwalle: oh, nice i tought that dint existed, you save me some powercycles now :-) | 15:17 |
| scrts | hm, does milkymist use RTP/RTSP? | 15:18 |
| kristianpaul | you mean for video streaming? | 15:21 |
| scrts | yes | 15:23 |
| kristianpaul | you'll need to implement it afaik | 15:25 |
| scrts | hm, so the ethernet is used only for control and use udp? | 15:28 |
| kristianpaul | tcp too | 15:30 |
| scrts | hm, okay :) | 15:31 |
| kristianpaul | lekernel: do you have somwhere the flickernoise version with support 1024x768? | 16:22 |
| kristianpaul | hmm, but i still need check if the vide projector support that resolution | 16:23 |
| kristianpaul | i mean if you have a binary :-) | 16:23 |
| Fallenou | scrts: the ethernet is a generic ethernet, you can do whatever you want with it, at the moment it is used for telnet, ftp, nfs and netboot | 16:32 |
| scrts | heh, well I am interested how RTP packet is formed using no processor, pure HDL only | 16:33 |
| Fallenou | wow | 16:33 |
| Fallenou | layer 7 via fpga is quite rare :) | 16:33 |
| roh | Fallenou: nope. not for rtp | 16:34 |
| Fallenou | I don't know rtp in details but as far as i know it's just streaming payload + timestamps ? | 16:34 |
| roh | http://www.maintech.de/produkte/ip-cores/rtp-empfaenger-ip-core/ | 16:34 |
| roh | need to run now. | 16:34 |
| Fallenou | it seems doable | 16:34 |
| Fallenou | ++ | 16:34 |
| roh | it is. seen it. | 16:35 |
| Fallenou | oh yes | 16:35 |
| Fallenou | thanks for the link | 16:35 |
| scrts | hmm, well pretty fast if there are more than 1 video stream :) | 16:50 |
| mwalle | does anybody know if gdb, the stub or the hardware is supposed to increment the PC in case of a watchpoint trap? | 17:27 |
| CIA-43 | milkymist: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r1fe5d20 / boards/milkymist-one/flash/flashall.batch : Reload FPGA after flashing - http://bit.ly/i3ly7g | 18:11 |
| lekernel | Fallenou: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7syu5EC1OWg | 18:48 |
| mwalle | omg :) | 19:01 |
| lekernel | ##[|#æ! rtems is such a pain at times | 19:06 |
| lekernel | rename() won't support cross-mountpoint moves | 19:07 |
| lekernel | how I love wasting my time reinventing such wheels | 19:08 |
| tuxbrain | lekernel:(fpga web server) wow, can this be implemented on milkimist in adition of what it has now? | 19:08 |
| lekernel | of course, but it would be rather irrelevant to do so | 19:08 |
| lekernel | that's what CPUs are for | 19:08 |
| lekernel | unless you need very high performance (and still...) | 19:09 |
| tuxbrain | maybe to us it as front end without whaste cpu cicles than may affect to the VJ function | 19:10 |
| tuxbrain | just talking from the most complet ignorance as you know | 19:10 |
| lekernel | contrary to its filesystem, the RTEMS real time scheduler is pretty nice and can handle such things | 19:10 |
| lekernel | and there's also the option of making a dual-CPU system, which would still be better than a HW webserver | 19:11 |
| tuxbrain | :( www.gawgle.net doesn't work | 19:11 |
| tuxbrain | no more info about it :( | 19:12 |
| tuxbrain | I wanna see if it has any server side scripting capabilities like php/phython/perl... | 19:13 |
| lekernel | hahaha, most probably not | 19:14 |
| lekernel | it's probably a big hacky FSM | 19:14 |
| tuxbrain | Flying spaguetti monster??? | 19:14 |
| lekernel | finite state machine | 19:14 |
| tuxbrain | ok :P | 19:14 |
| Action: tuxbrain dreams on dinamic webservers on a chip | 19:15 | |
| tuxbrain | imagin that to integrate along wpan on tinny low power modules | 19:17 |
| tuxbrain | all devices in a home from the ringbell to the alarm clock can be setup and consulted using a web interface wiresly, even yous cloths can be part of the network .... | 19:20 |
| mwalle | so use some low power uC :) | 19:27 |
| roh | uc isnt the issue. the rf eats 100 times more | 20:13 |
| wpwrak | roh: depends on your transmit power :) | 20:14 |
| roh | tuxbrain: if you need a 'cpu and transciever board' .. check out the chibiduino | 20:19 |
| roh | 33$/piece is quite cheap. i dont think one can easily beat that | 20:19 |
| tuxbrain | roh I have an eye on chibiduino, I think once NN has also wpan could be a great companion to interact wiresly with the real wold :), also I hope MM would have an driver for atusb soon to interact with chibi or NN :) | 20:23 |
| wpwrak | tuxbrain: just install linux on the MM ;-) | 20:26 |
| tuxbrain | he :), wpwrak you know I will love to see a full trootle linux on it I know some people are improving the actual port, or at least willing to do in short, but I would like to see atusb running on the "official" rterms version | 20:28 |
| tuxbrain | out of the box MM NN interaction :) | 20:28 |
| Fallenou | lekernel: already seen this video :) | 20:29 |
| Fallenou | nice but useless :p | 20:29 |
| tuxbrain | maybe an app with a front end on NN to change patches/edit/create patches on MM wiresly | 20:30 |
| tuxbrain | wiresly->wirelessly | 20:31 |
| lekernel | roh: when you see the price of that hot wheels gun, *duino looks expensive | 20:31 |
| lekernel | but yeah, for small batches, $33 is cheap | 20:31 |
| roh | lekernel: it was also 20E or so last time i checked | 20:31 |
| lekernel | sure, but it has case, mechanics, waveguide, AVR, LCD, batteries, and that microwave module which are typically in the 200E range instead of 20 | 20:32 |
| roh | naaah | 20:32 |
| roh | microwave stuff isnt expensive. its just some metal anyhow | 20:32 |
| roh | a lnb is more complex and also <10E | 20:33 |
| lekernel | yeah. see the power of mass production | 20:33 |
| lekernel | if you tried to build a LNB yourself (with regular PCB and chips), you'd pay a LOT more | 20:34 |
| roh | sure. but because of development, not material cost | 20:34 |
| lekernel | no, for MW it's often material cost | 20:35 |
| roh | its mostly a combination of modern semiconductors and quite simple rf circuits with extreme focus on mechanical layout | 20:35 |
| lekernel | #!@§ rtems filesystem bugs (?) | 20:40 |
| lekernel | seriously the rtems filesystem is the shittiest piece of code i've discovered in the past 6 months (autocrap doesn't count, I knew it before) | 20:41 |
| lekernel | there's that utterly retarded eval_path system, and open file then delete file from another task = crash | 20:43 |
| lekernel | now it seems that the shell commands (rm/mv/cp) fail intermittently when run from the app and not the shell. and my guess is this might be related to eval_path bugs ... :( | 20:45 |
| lekernel | wow, I even managed to create an undeletable + unreadable directory on the ramdisk using cp alone | 20:46 |
| Fallenou | yes eval_path is a shitty thing | 20:49 |
| Fallenou | it's not even using some sort of vfs, is it ? | 20:49 |
| Fallenou | they really should be using a vfs kind of thing | 20:49 |
| lekernel | haha, no, eval_path replaces the vfs | 20:51 |
| lekernel | it's kind of a VFS name resolution function split across every registered filesystem. it's a bit as if Salomon carried on with his idea of splitting the baby, with blood spilling everywhere | 20:54 |
| Fallenou | :) | 20:56 |
| CIA-43 | flickernoise: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r95168a6 / src/filemanager.c : Filemanager: complete - http://bit.ly/fhMcE0 | 21:23 |
| CIA-43 | flickernoise: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * rd2256c5 / (6 files): More DMX channels - http://bit.ly/iaITwm | 21:41 |
| CIA-43 | flickernoise: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r5f9a047 / flash/flash.sh : Reconfigure FPGA after flashing - http://bit.ly/dEEojo | 22:01 |
| CIA-43 | mtk: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * ra478a85 / (5 files): Removed view manager - http://bit.ly/fWYSeO | 22:24 |
| lekernel | CC drivers/video/milkymistfb.o | 22:55 |
| lekernel | drivers/video/milkymistfb.c: In function 'milkymistfb_probe': | 22:55 |
| lekernel | drivers/video/milkymistfb.c:553:2: error: implicit declaration of function 'out_be32' | 22:55 |
| lekernel | make[2]: *** [drivers/video/milkymistfb.o] Error 1 | 22:55 |
| lekernel | hrm... | 22:55 |
| mwalle | gn8 | 22:58 |
| lekernel | gn8 | 23:04 |
| larsc | replace it with iowrite32 | 23:05 |
| larsc | iowrite32be | 23:06 |
| lekernel | yup. done | 23:06 |
| lekernel | now I get that gcc infinite loop in timer_list.c again... should "optimize for size" iirc | 23:06 |
| lekernel | ok, works :) | 23:26 |
| --- Mon Apr 4 2011 | 00:00 | |
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