#milkymist IRC log for Friday, 2011-03-18

kristianpaulwolfspraul: got your rca male-male cable, good !12:12
kristianpaullekernel: for the disable video-in  is not just enought to comment define ENABLE_VIDEOIN at setup.v?12:13
kristianpaulah well in boards/gen_capabilities.v i just see12:15
kristianpaul`ifdef ENABLE_VIDEOIN12:15
kristianpaulassign videoin = 1'b1;12:15
kristianpaulassign videoin = 1'b0;12:15
kristianpauland a PULLDOWN13:14
kristianpaulwolfspraul: http://www.xilinx.com/itp/xilinx4/data/docs/cgd/p13.html#100005713:20
kristianpaulhmm but reading more deeper i just may aply to 3-state nest..13:21
kristianpaulah, wait may be pulldown as a library13:27
kristianpaulhttp://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/sw_manuals/xilinx11/spartan6_hdl.pdf page 21813:28
kristianpaulergg, but we need ground it.. lets wait better a sebastien answer ;-)13:29
lekernelkristianpaul: we are talking about the video _out_13:36
kristianpaulahhh !!13:39
kristianpaulbut reply somthing about modifying the verilog code..13:40
kristianpaulokay this is physical  not logical then, sorry for the confusion !13:41
lekernelcan't see what you mean. we want to set the voltage to 0 on all video out signals to the adc13:42
lekernelthere are many ways to do that, but the simplest one is to assign 0 in the verilog source13:42
kristianpaulokay so input is not relevant, that was my confution13:47
kristianpaulnv my silly questions ;-)13:47
rejonmilkymist fucking rules!15:57
rejonplugged into my parents flat screen totally cool ambient experience15:57
lekerneldid you try with the video input too16:03
rejonlekernel not yet16:14
rejonwhat type of camera to use for that?16:14
rejonusb will work?16:15
lekernelno, composite16:15
rejonok, i don't have a composite camera16:15
rejonneed to pick one up16:15
lekernellook for cctv ones :)16:16
lekernelif you want cheap16:16
rejoni'll get one in china16:19
rejonnext week16:19
lekernelphew. how many times are you on the plane a month? :)16:19
Fallenouin a little bit more than 2 hours we will know if Milkymist is accepted as a GSoC org :)16:25
Fallenouit seems they just made their first 28 nm fpga at Xilinx16:29
Fallenouthey are testing it right now16:30
lekernelI wonder where the timing models in ise 13.1 come from16:35
lekernelif they did not measure timing, how do they know about it? model a 28nm model?16:37
Fallenouahah don't know16:37
Fallenouyou mean they already had the timing information of the 7 series 28nm in ISE ?16:37
Fallenoubefore having made the chip ?16:37
Fallenouahah nice16:37
lekerneldon't know16:38
FallenouI am looking at the same exact video, but from altera side :p16:38
Fallenouit's like a youtube battle16:38
lekernelless than 300 views so far16:38
lekerneleven milkymist videos are more popular16:38
Fallenou"look I'm at 10 Gb/s and the eye is wide open !!"16:38
Fallenoufor altera 28nm chip16:39
lekernelbtw: http://www.synopsys.com/Community/SNUG/UK/Pages/default.aspx16:39
lekernelI most probably won't go, but it could be a nice place to learn about EDA/ASICs16:40
lekernelif you manage to get through the ivory tower's "authorized persons only" scanner16:41
lekernelactually I emailed them about the registration details and fees, and the answer said "details are to be published later" (which they didn't) and that I had to note that such events were solely for "authorized persons"16:45
lekernelmaybe just gatecrash16:45
lekernelsometimes it's surprisingly easy16:45
Fallenouto get access what do you basically need ?16:47
Fallenouto pay ?16:47
Fallenouto be from specific company?16:47
lekernelno idea :)16:48
Fallenouhum hum16:48
Fallenouit smells bad when nothing is explained :)16:49
lekernelpay synopsys licenses I guess16:49
Fallenouas if they wanted to advertise about it16:49
Fallenoubut didn't want anyone to come16:49
lekernelthat's how the asic business is16:49
lekernelvery small world16:49
Fallenouor at least not someone not invited through some private channel16:49
lekernelvery closed16:49
lekernelI'm not really surprised to see such behaviour16:50
lekerneland I wouldn't be surprised either if they had little security at the entrance16:50
lekerneleven if there's a $3000 entrance fee16:50
Fallenouanyway I won't be in London anymore in May16:51
lekernelusually this is paid for by rich companies who send their employees, and they don't really take into account curious individuals trying to get it16:51
lekernelinteresting: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6301693.pdf17:01
lekernel(asic placement algorithm)17:02
FallenouBut I guess you can't use it17:04
Fallenouright ?17:04
scrtsif its patented, then.. :)17:06
larscwell, of course you can use it. just pay the patent fee ;)17:06
lekernelsoftware (i'd even say math) isn't patentable in europe17:08
lekernelif people want to argue about that or to find ways around the patent's claims, they feel free, but I won't spend a split second on that17:09
lekernelanyway, the first versions of my placer will use simulated annealing. that's for later.17:10
Fallenoulekernel: after llhdl and antares, I guess you will need a bitgen clone, is it difficult to do ?17:14
lekernelit'll probably be built into the antares tools anyway... it's simpler than re-reading XDL files17:16
lekernelkristianpaul: looks interesting that labsurlab18:56
kristianpaullekernel: yeah it is :-)18:56
kristianpaullekernel: i'l aleready spare a talk with dorkbot people about milkymist too18:56
lekernel"uso y abuso de un satelite militar yankee"18:58
lekernelat least you're doing it properly, I've heard (but I don't know if it's true) that some people simply hook a varactor doubler to a hamradio TX18:59
lekernelthis sounds like a lot of EM pollution18:59
lekernelwithout proper filtering...19:00
kristianpaul(hook a varactor doubler to a hamradio TX) oh yes, its true !19:00
kristianpaulThere are lots of cases, one intentionals others not so, radio is really fun19:01
lekerneland what do you use for receiving?19:06
lekernelI mean, the "poor man's" solution like that one for TX :-)19:06
kristianpaulI dont know really, i just was told about what you pointed, but i bet another cheap radio and hackish atena will do the job.19:08
kristianpaulI can tell more about this after the labsurlab ;)19:08
Fallenoulekernel: seems we're not in gsoc this year again :x19:12
rejoni just saw19:16
rejonaiki got turned down too19:16
rejoni tried harder than normal19:16
rejonthey have a lots of legacy projects they support now19:16
rejonfine, well, at least google giving money19:16
rejonthat was the last time i will try gsoc for any project19:16
kristianpaul(legacy projects they support now)19:17
rejoni would rather have $$$ anyway19:17
Fallenouenlightenment was refused too19:17
kristianpaulnot sound well19:17
Fallenoudokuwiki got accepted ...19:17
Fallenouwordpress too19:17
rejonyeah, well, they paid fabricatorz today though19:17
rejonwhich is good19:17
rejonmy company they paid 4 months late19:17
lekernelas usual I guess they gave you no reason for rejection?19:18
rejonlekernel right19:21
rejonactually its good19:21
rejoni just emailed the list19:21
kristianpaul5000usd ! great :-)19:28
Action: kristianpaul dint knew it about rejon company19:28
rejonhttp://fabricatorz.com and aikilab19:28
rejonand of course sharism.cc19:28
rejonand sharism.org19:28
kristianpauland you the sharism guy ! nice to met you some day :-)19:30
rejonkristianpaul where you live?19:31
kristianpaulrejon: Buga, Colombia19:32
kristianpaulsome far :-)19:32
kristianpaulFallenou: rtems got in gsoc?19:33
kristianpaulkanzure_: hi, do you have something new to tell about organic semiconductors? :-)19:36
Fallenouoh I didn't know about this project22:21
Fallenounice !22:21
kristianpaulI wonder if i bought i dual/quad cored cheap cpu sintesis speed will improve a bit..22:25
kristianpaul45 minutes waiting to confirm a _single_ change is PAIN22:26
Fallenouyes it is :(22:26
kristianpaulI bet that what more  encorage sebastien for start llhdl ;-)22:26
FallenouAFAIK the synthesis process is purely mono threaded22:26
Fallenouso you would not gain anything with N cores22:26
FallenouXst and all the toolchain uses only one core :(22:27
Fallenoubut the more you add cores the more you can do things in parallel without slowing down the synthesis :)22:27
kristianpauli may add ram later for some experiments22:27
kristianpauli'm happy with my single core22:28
Fallenouit could be great to have several server to do synthesis on them22:28
Fallenouyou could test several changes at the same time22:28
Fallenouif you have like a 8 cores machine22:28
Fallenouyou can put 8 virtual machines22:28
kristianpaulah, servers..22:28
Fallenouand do 8 synthesis in parallel22:28
kristianpaulwpwrak: tuxrandon have some GUI isnt? and VNC? i remenber22:29
Fallenouor just with some cp trick and without any virtualmachine :p22:29
kristianpaulno man two sintesis threas and my computer will burnout..22:30
Fallenouyes I meant on a server22:31
Fallenouwith several cores :)22:31
Fallenouand proper fans / heat sinks22:31
Fallenouit still won't improve the synthesis time22:32
Fallenoubut can make it possible to test several changes in less time22:32
wpwrakkristianpaul: tuxrandon ? qu'est-ce que c'est ?22:32
Fallenouwpwrak: il ne parle pas francais je pense22:32
wpwrakFallenou: i think it's the universal symbol of puzzledness ;-)22:33
kristianpaulwpwrak: je ne parle francais22:33
Fallenouwpwrak: just say "wtfff ?"22:33
Fallenouit's more universal :p22:33
kristianpaulwpwrak: turandot, sorry typo22:33
kristianpaulah no22:34
Last message repeated 1 time(s).22:34
kristianpaulwpwrak: fidelio !22:34
wpwrakFallenou: also very good to convey early to students the complexity they'll face in the coming years :)22:34
Fallenouthe complexity of what ?22:35
wpwrakturandot sounds dangerous. "While working on Turandot, Puccini grew ill and died [...]"22:35
wpwrakFallenou: the french language22:35
kristianpaulwpwrak: (french) but you speak spanish, the swich is not so _big_22:36
FallenouI don't get it , is kristianpaul coming to study in france ?22:36
kristianpaulNot that i'm aware off  ;-)22:36
Fallenouok :p22:36
Fallenoukristianpaul: a few minutes ago 4 spanish-or-assimilated guys just started following me on twitter22:37
FallenouI guess it comes from you :p22:37
kristianpauloh yes?22:37
wpwrakFallenou: naw, don't you know the old song "psycho killer" (or the parody "psycho chicken") ? there, they also use "qu'est-ce que c'est" as a term of puzzlement in an otherwise english text22:37
Fallenoulike "truequedigital" or "cartograsonoras"22:37
kristianpauli dont know use twitter, just mirror microblof from identi.ca22:38
Fallenouoh no sorry wpwrak :) didn't know !22:38
Fallenouok :p22:38
kristianpaullet me confirm thats not spam22:38
wpwrakFallenou: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho_Killer22:38
Fallenouthere is miqrorelatos too22:39
Fallenouand camkiant22:39
Fallenouwpwrak: thanks :)22:39
kristianpaulah yes, trusty near related people22:40
kristianpaulmay be from labsurlab i think22:40
Fallenouit's right after i retweeted something from you22:41
Fallenouabout your labsurlab stuff in fact :)22:42
Fallenoukristianpaul: is there going to be a milkymist show/presentation somewhere ?22:42
kristianpaulphew, almost finishing a better diagram for milkymist SoC, now do it in dia :p22:43
Fallenouat labsurlab ?22:43
Fallenouoh a new soc block diagram ? :) cool !22:43
kristianpaul(at labsurlab) not yet, it begin at april 422:50
kristianpaulconbus 2x5:  mico32 <-> slaves (NOR, ROM, CSR, FML)23:28
kristianpauland i gues in the that order arbitrer take cares..23:30
kristianpaul(NOR, ROM, YSB, CSR, FML)**23:30
scrtsare there any plans of streaming video through lan? :)23:31
kristianpaulscrts: i think that pushing data to lan is the only think ethernet drivr do best23:31
kristianpaul(note not makinf resposible Fallenou for this)23:31
CIA-37antares: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * rb27b033 / (3 files): place: enumerate control sets - http://bit.ly/i6Nq9u23:31
CIA-37antares: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * rb5f3c14 / (5 files in 3 dirs): pack: new architecture (incomplete) - http://bit.ly/goqqIl23:31
scrtswell, its not so easy to push video data stream, since it can't be interrupted :)23:32
kristianpaulscrts: so yes, why not, but can you figure out how to dump video-in to a know format? thats the missing part i bet23:32
scrtsI have a task to do TS to IP23:33
scrtshowever that will be on NIOS :\23:33
scrtsTS -> transport stream23:33
scrtsI think it will be MPEG-2 encoded23:33
kristianpaulso conbus 2x5:  mico32 <-> slaves (NOR, ROM, USB, CSR, FML) that order arbitrer take cares i guess23:33
kristianpauland slaves, 5 to date are maped in memory at thar order23:33
Fallenoukristianpaul: you mean "no pushing data to lan" is what the driver does best ? :p23:36
Fallenousecond thing being crashing23:37
kristianpaulFallenou: push to lan23:38
kristianpaulnot lan to mm123:38
kristianpauli remner i get a 4x troughtput and not crash when pulling a fake file from the mm1 using ftp23:39
Fallenouso you mean one way works better than the other ?23:40
kristianpauloh, yes i do23:41
kristianpaulso lets say stream is much more posible ;-)23:41
Fallenouoh ok so uploading from M1 works better than downloading23:42
Fallenouwell the new driver design should have improved the downloading part on M1 side :(23:42
Fallenoutoo bad it didn't work23:42
kristianpaulso conbus 6x1: (mico32, AC97, PFPU, TMU*, Minimac ) <-> slave FML  so this the DMA-like thing23:45
kristianpaulas FML is the proper way in order to get to ram i guess23:45
kristianpaulbut note the TMU* is part also of the FML bus not just wishbone23:46
FallenouFML is Fast memory link23:46
Fallenouit's aimed at accessing ram at high speed23:46
Fallenougood for dma23:46
kristianpauli like High Trughput Link ;-)23:46
kristianpaulme so lazy, i took two weeks to understand this :(23:47
Fallenouit's not easy to understand all these things, if it's not your field of study23:48
Fallenouand if you do not have all the day to study it :)23:48
kristianpaulall day, oh my shame..23:48
Fallenouyou're working right ?23:49
Fallenouso you just have a look at milkymist during your free time23:49
Fallenouit's usually a small amount of time :)23:49
Fallenounot easy to progress23:49
kristianpaulyeah, and meanwhile travel23:49
kristianpaulbut i'll get there :-)23:49
Fallenousure !23:49
kristianpaul(field of study) i never took microprocesor subject at univesity, so yes i also had to read about it23:50
FallenouI mean you didn't study "soc design" as your main subject23:51
Fallenouneither do I23:51
Fallenoumy subject is not even electronic nor fpga at all23:51
Fallenouit's more network and telecom23:51
kristianpauloh, i work on network security !23:52
Fallenounice :)23:52
kristianpaulwell more log analisys part but also network too23:52
FallenouI met a guy yesterday who did log analysis for network too23:52
Fallenouat getitmade meeting :p23:52
Action: Fallenou is really chatty23:54
Action: Fallenou speaks too much23:54
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