| manuko | I'm interested on jtag for mico32 | 03:51 |
|---|---|---|
| kristianpaul | hi | 04:01 |
| kristianpaul | xiangfu: hi !! | 04:02 |
| kristianpaul | okay lest try something here | 04:06 |
| Action: kristianpaul missi mm1 early bios fast booting.. | 04:06 | |
| kristianpaul | waoahshsa | 04:11 |
| kristianpaul | amaazinn!! | 04:11 |
| Action: kristianpaul ccd + mm1 | 04:11 | |
| kristianpaul | xiangfu: will be cool be able to get snanshots from the vide in | 04:13 |
| kristianpaul | or at least from the previw that is visualized in the video input settings | 04:13 |
| xiangfu | kristianpaul: yes. | 04:31 |
| kristianpaul | he, just telling :-) | 04:36 |
| kristianpaul | ha, copy and paste could be usefull in the patch editor too | 04:49 |
| lekernel | kristianpaul: it works... ctrl c/v | 06:01 |
| kristianpaul | ctrl? | 06:06 |
| kristianpaul | lekernel: morning ! :-) | 06:06 |
| Fallenou | morning | 10:02 |
| lekernel | morning | 10:07 |
| Fallenou | kristianpaul: I don't understand quite well what's on your screen on your video | 10:19 |
| Fallenou | is this your keyboard that your filming and feeding into the video input ? | 10:20 |
| kristianpaul | Fallenou: heh | 10:41 |
| kristianpaul | was a test but seems my camera is not good fore details | 10:41 |
| kristianpaul | Fallenou: but yes it is :-) | 10:42 |
| Fallenou | oh ok ! | 10:42 |
| Fallenou | I recognized something looking like a keyboard but wasn't sure | 10:42 |
| Fallenou | since it's distorted by M1 (which is normal I would say it does it's job :p) | 10:42 |
| Fallenou | well nice we need more video ! | 10:42 |
| Fallenou | There is no video of the current version of Milkymist / Flickernoise | 10:43 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul: do you know any good manufacturer of ac97 codecs? | 10:47 |
| wolfspraul | no | 10:47 |
| Fallenou | lekernel: maybe have a look on a PC sound card :o | 10:48 |
| kristianpaul | Fallenou: more video, sure, !! but first i have some todos with you and they list | 10:48 |
| wolfspraul | I'm not sure changing the codec is the right solution for the line-out noise anyway. don't you think we should track down the real issue first? | 10:48 |
| Fallenou | kristianpaul: yes sure :) | 10:48 |
| kristianpaul | Fallenou: btw i already forked lekernel milkymist repo | 10:48 |
| Fallenou | kristianpaul: good !! :) | 10:48 |
| kristianpaul | Fallenou: i hope upload sistensis log today.. | 10:48 |
| Fallenou | excellent | 10:48 |
| Fallenou | thank you | 10:48 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: why is the camera not good on details? what details? it should be pretty good, especially considering that in that video, you can hardly see anything :-) | 10:48 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul: the ml401 has the same codec and is noticeably noisy too. so... | 10:48 |
| kristianpaul | wolfspraul: my camera not the ccd one | 10:48 |
| kristianpaul | it have details | 10:49 |
| kristianpaul | really nice ones i think | 10:49 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul: also, we should be able to find a pin-compatible chip. just drop-in replacement, no pcb layout change | 10:49 |
| lekernel | so it's an easy test and fix | 10:49 |
| wolfspraul | sure, if that is possible let's do it | 10:49 |
| wolfspraul | will you reply to the guy on the list? | 10:50 |
| lekernel | i'll try it on a rc1 board... | 10:50 |
| lekernel | yes | 10:50 |
| Fallenou | yeah maybe just source different ac 97 pinout compatible and test them since it's not that much work | 10:50 |
| wolfspraul | pcb layout change is no problem, unless the change starts to spread into other components etc. | 10:50 |
| kristianpaul | ok, but why and what is problem is supposed to solve the new chip? | 10:50 |
| wolfspraul | if it's just a little different pad size/location, it shouldn't matter because we are doing rc3 anyway | 10:50 |
| kristianpaul | are we talking about audio-out noise? | 10:50 |
| kristianpaul | or other no so know problem? | 10:51 |
| lekernel | I could order samples from NS, but I'd like to try a different manufacturer :) | 10:51 |
| lekernel | kristianpaul: yes, audio out noise | 10:51 |
| lekernel | it's a minor issue, but everyone's complaining about that | 10:51 |
| kristianpaul | lekernel: it was present on the ml401 as well? | 10:51 |
| lekernel | yes | 10:51 |
| wolfspraul | it's not minor. once the feature is there it should work. | 10:51 |
| kristianpaul | agree :-) | 10:51 |
| wolfspraul | and plus - connecting a headphone, even just for fun, is something a lot of people will try | 10:51 |
| wolfspraul | then they hear a lot of noise, and they think 'what a crap' | 10:52 |
| wolfspraul | it's that easy | 10:52 |
| lekernel | yeah, I see | 10:52 |
| lekernel | that's why i'll look a bit more into that | 10:52 |
| kristianpaul | you asked xilinx with the ml401 a posible root case? | 10:52 |
| wolfspraul | if we leave it as is on rc3 (which I can live with), then I will start saying everywhere that line-out is basically not working. "forget that it exists" | 10:53 |
| wolfspraul | that's better than leaving it there and letting people discover the noise | 10:53 |
| wolfspraul | it's called 'expectation management' | 10:53 |
| wolfspraul | we can definitely do that - scratch line-out on the marketing side ("does not exist") | 10:53 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul: any sourcing experience from VIA? | 10:54 |
| kristianpaul | hmm via. :-) | 10:54 |
| wolfspraul | no | 10:54 |
| lekernel | yeah, I know, we can also simply remove the jack | 10:54 |
| wolfspraul | then we would have a hole in the case, unless we fix that as well (and I have a few cases in stock so it's not ideal) | 10:54 |
| wolfspraul | there is this british company, forgot the name | 10:55 |
| lekernel | wolfson? | 10:55 |
| lekernel | I checked them, it seems they make QFN chips only | 10:55 |
| lekernel | i'll try to find a TQFP one, will be much easier to test | 10:55 |
| wolfspraul | yes, wolfson | 10:57 |
| wolfspraul | lekernel: do you think just changing the codec will fix the noise? | 10:58 |
| wolfspraul | or is this a shot in the dark? | 10:58 |
| kristianpaul | shoot shoot ! ;-) | 10:58 |
| lekernel | there's a good chance i will | 10:58 |
| lekernel | it will | 10:58 |
| lekernel | and it's an easy test | 10:58 |
| kristianpaul | thats true | 10:58 |
| wolfspraul | why is there a good chance? | 10:59 |
| wolfspraul | the chip we have now is so bad? how come it is selling at all then? | 10:59 |
| wolfspraul | makes no sense to me | 10:59 |
| wolfspraul | I would rather think we are doing something on the board that is very unfriendly to a line-out signal | 11:00 |
| wolfspraul | something electrically outside the codec | 11:00 |
| wolfspraul | that's a long shot too, but I just have no way to comprehend WHY changing the codec might help | 11:00 |
| wolfspraul | but who knows, I'm always in favor of trying... | 11:01 |
| wolfspraul | I would love to fix line-out, we need a product that works really well in all details. and the noise is massive. | 11:02 |
| wolfspraul | basically we have no working line-out on m1 | 11:02 |
| wolfspraul | which I can live with if needed, and will explain it like that | 11:03 |
| wolfspraul | it's a video machine :-) who wants line-out? | 11:03 |
| wolfspraul | lekernel: if you have a few suggestions for codecs, Adam can get them and try as well, so we can speed up | 11:03 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul: you can look at the schematics and PCB design around the codec, but I did that already and found nothing unusual | 11:06 |
| lekernel | that being said, bugs are often found by someone who did not draw the schematics :) | 11:06 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC%2797#Codec_chips | 11:07 |
| kristianpaul | wolfspraul: btw did you finally test vide-in on your mm1? | 11:09 |
| wolfspraul | no time yet. every day I have work for 100 hours, pretty bad. | 11:12 |
| wolfspraul | if you say it works for you now, I will postpone my test for now. | 11:12 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: with your video you want to say "it does work", right? | 11:12 |
| wolfspraul | lekernel: I definitely cannot see anything in the schematics, unfortunately we pissed off Joerg who is quite good on audio issues. | 11:13 |
| lekernel | hm, is "we" means only me, or was there other problems as well? | 11:14 |
| wolfspraul | no need to point fingers, I will try to get him back. It's a joint failure, but that includes him as well. What can I do, we try to collaborate... | 11:21 |
| wolfspraul | lekernel: for line-out noise, have you tried to see where the noise originates, i.e. whether it comes out of the codec already? is there anything in between the codec and the jack? | 11:33 |
| lekernel | just passive components | 11:33 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul: cc me if you write to Joerg. since I contributed to pissing him off... :/ | 11:37 |
| lekernel | wolfspraul: http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/codecs/WM9707/ | 11:47 |
| lekernel | found one eventually | 11:47 |
| lekernel | i'll check compatibility a bit more and order samples | 11:49 |
| lekernel | hmm... it definitely seems to be a product made for drop-in replacement of competitor's codecs :) | 11:57 |
| lekernel | cool | 11:57 |
| Fallenou | maybe one day they will copyright pinouts to avoid concurrency with drop-ip replacement :p | 11:59 |
| lekernel | the whole point of the ac97 standard is to allow that replacement | 12:00 |
| lekernel | pc market... | 12:00 |
| lekernel | it's the same with sdram for example | 12:01 |
| Fallenou | ok | 12:01 |
| lekernel | though the sdram jedec standard is usually more closely respected than the ac97 one :) | 12:01 |
| lekernel | ac97 is a bit messy | 12:01 |
| roh | it is? | 12:05 |
| roh | looked quite simple and sane (for some industry standard) | 12:05 |
| roh | isnt it just a loooong shift register with a data and a command chain and named registers in command mode? | 12:06 |
| lekernel | the control signals are usually OK | 12:08 |
| lekernel | but sometimes there are subtleties on things like the power supply voltages, pinout, and required external components | 12:08 |
| lekernel | that wolfson codec supports 3.3 to 5V on all supply pins and requires very little external parts | 12:08 |
| roh | pinout is also defined by ac97 and afaik even upgrade compatible | 12:08 |
| roh | wolfson is quite cool. | 12:09 |
| roh | also nice people with a clue about linux | 12:09 |
| lekernel | yup. but some manufacturers like to hook up proprietary extensions to NC pins | 12:09 |
| roh | lekernel: check different versions of ac97. some add features and revise pinouts | 12:09 |
| roh | e.g. there is a nc where newer versions have the spdif out | 12:09 |
| lekernel | yeah, but sometimes they use them for things like connecting capacitors for some onchip audio improvement circuit to work | 12:10 |
| lekernel | I don't think that's in the standard... is it? | 12:10 |
| roh | dunno. but ac97 isnt something loosely speced or so | 12:11 |
| lekernel | roh: ok, the wolfson codec requires decoupling of pin 32, but not the current one | 12:17 |
| lekernel | you see, there are always problems | 12:17 |
| lekernel | and an additional cap on pin 33 | 12:19 |
| lekernel | it's always small details, but pesky ones | 12:19 |
| lekernel | anyway, I think we can manage them, and I'll order samples now | 12:20 |
| roh | which ac97version is the board for? | 12:20 |
| lekernel | the current chip is 2.1 | 12:21 |
| roh | uh. i see.. thats quite... well.. outdated.. | 12:21 |
| lekernel | and the wolfson codec too | 12:21 |
| lekernel | ah, also that wolfson chip can have SPDIF | 12:22 |
| roh | it is.. i see.. then they enforced physical compatibility in later versions. i mostly used the 2.3 spec for reading up | 12:22 |
| roh | spdif is speced in 2.3 | 12:22 |
| roh | eh 2.2 | 12:22 |
| lekernel | ah, funny | 12:22 |
| roh | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC'97 has a nice list of what feats came when | 12:22 |
| lekernel | anyway, I think we'll route the required pins for spdif to the internal audio header, as a totally unsupported easter egg | 12:23 |
| roh | that would be cool | 12:23 |
| roh | its only one pin i think | 12:23 |
| roh | the last one or so | 12:23 |
| lekernel | there's also a "spdif enable" pin that needs to be pulled high | 12:24 |
| roh | thats not in the spec i read.. must be vendor specific | 12:24 |
| lekernel | i'll connect that one to the header too | 12:24 |
| lekernel | yeah, told you | 12:24 |
| lekernel | there are tons of vendor specific extensions to ac97 | 12:24 |
| roh | lekernel: maybe update to 2.3 standard | 12:24 |
| roh | i think its more specific and should make you have less work | 12:24 |
| roh | in using different chips atleast | 12:24 |
| lekernel | so far it's just 2 more capacitors | 12:25 |
| lekernel | are 2.3 chips compatible with 2.1 ones? | 12:25 |
| roh | i think so. mostly | 12:25 |
| roh | the idea is the same, i think some pins changed which were nc before (and vendors did their proprietary extensions on) | 12:25 |
| lekernel | any chip you could recommend? | 12:25 |
| roh | uh.. not from my head. wolfson is a good start. ask them for a recommendation | 12:26 |
| roh | but if i read the stuff right, you should have even sw compat. with the lastest revision. | 12:29 |
| roh | i think they only did new ones to root out all vendor special cases | 12:29 |
| roh | the whole idea was to make it unneccessary to design a new board just to use another vendors codec | 12:29 |
| roh | for the successor hda there isnt even a sw driver for different chips anymore. they need to be fully sw compatible | 12:30 |
| lekernel | yeah... but there wasn't hda on fpga boards when I designed MM SoC | 12:31 |
| roh | or? eh. no.. sorry.. its only the hw/sw interface.. still got a codec driver | 12:31 |
| roh | no problem. ac97 seems still to be used quite widely | 12:32 |
| roh | analog devices also makes nice sounding chips (quality) | 12:32 |
| roh | and somewhere on the low end there is always realtek | 12:32 |
| lekernel | it seems AD is phasing out their ac97 codecs :( | 12:32 |
| roh | uuh? | 12:33 |
| roh | somebody bought them? | 12:33 |
| roh | there is still AKM for the quality segment | 12:34 |
| lekernel | I don't know... but all the AD ac97 references I searched for were "discontinued" with no replacement information | 12:34 |
| wolfspraul | that's interesting, would like to hear the real story from an AD guy, will keep in mind... | 12:49 |
| roh | maybe we need to find out what all the long-term users use | 12:50 |
| roh | there is embedded hw with a 10 year gurantee for lines of devices | 12:50 |
| Action: Fallenou just ran into compiler problem for pic32 | 13:49 | |
| Fallenou | I am using a packed structure, so some of the fields are unaligned | 13:49 |
| Fallenou | am using a char * to walk through the struct | 13:50 |
| Fallenou | and then in the middle of it i switch to long int * | 13:50 |
| Fallenou | but unfortunately the switch is not on an aligned address | 13:50 |
| Fallenou | the compiler does not handle that case | 13:50 |
| lekernel | load the switch value to a temporary variable then | 13:51 |
| lekernel | or use an AVR :) | 13:51 |
| Fallenou | i am sending values through spi | 13:51 |
| larsc | is the compiler supposed to handle such cases? | 13:51 |
| Fallenou | larsc: I guess since it does not produce warning or error | 13:51 |
| Fallenou | and since it generates code that generates an exception | 13:52 |
| Fallenou | I am sending a struct through spi, sending first the length%4 values, in "byte width" burst, and then all the remaining part with 4-bytes-size burst | 13:52 |
| Fallenou | I will try the other way | 13:53 |
| Fallenou | first sending everything in 4-bytes-size burst, and the remaining 3 bytes afterward :) | 13:53 |
| Fallenou | works \o/ | 13:55 |
| kristianpaul | wolfspraul: right | 15:14 |
| wolfspraul | right? (lost context) | 15:15 |
| wolfspraul | ah ok "it does work" | 15:20 |
| wolfspraul | great | 15:20 |
| kristianpaul | yeah, video-in context | 15:23 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: why can I not tell any 'video-in' effect in your video? | 15:27 |
| wolfspraul | is there a way to display a static image in some part of the screen? | 15:27 |
| wolfspraul | I think for a casual viewer of that video, they may not even understand/see where the video-in part is :-) | 15:28 |
| kristianpaul | wolfspraul: he,sure there is a control panel for video-in | 15:29 |
| wolfspraul | as you can tell I never tried, so far | 15:29 |
| wolfspraul | I have the same cable problem as you now, need to get an adapter first | 15:29 |
| kristianpaul | i got a cable | 15:30 |
| kristianpaul | was easier | 15:30 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: how much did you pay for the cable? how long is it? | 15:50 |
| kristianpaul | wolfspraul: i dint paid, i just borrowed, long... like 1m i think | 15:51 |
| wolfspraul | ok got it | 15:51 |
| kristianpaul | lekernel: the other video inputs can be enabled? _if_, is it a software/hardware(hdl) work needed to make it work? | 15:55 |
| lekernel | it's not other video inputs, it's for component video, and I don't know - never tested | 15:56 |
| lekernel | the adv7181 datasheet should give you some hints | 15:56 |
| kristianpaul | ahh | 15:56 |
| lekernel | maybe they could also be used as other video sources to select from | 15:57 |
| lekernel | if you manage to get that to work, documentation or code would be much appreciated :) | 15:57 |
| kristianpaul | ok, yeah, i was about to read the datasheet, just doing quick survey before :-) | 15:57 |
| kristianpaul | lekernel: btw for the timing constrait check, is the sys_clk the only signal to care about i guess? | 16:02 |
| lekernel | no, it's not | 16:02 |
| lekernel | you should check all the signals in the clock report | 16:03 |
| lekernel | s/clock/timing | 16:03 |
| kristianpaul | ok, yeah is logic procecure | 16:06 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: maybe you can find out whether it is possible to connect 3 different composite cameras :-) | 16:12 |
| wolfspraul | (not that I think it's important now, but good to know if it's theoretically possible or not) | 16:13 |
| Action: kristianpaul like the theoretically part | 16:15 | |
| kristianpaul | lekernel: For your reply seems this guy asumed out noise as manufacture hardware problem ;-) | 19:42 |
| kristianpaul | http://blog.tftechpages.com/?p=207 | 20:37 |
| mwalle | ho | 22:20 |
| kristianpaul | hi | 22:27 |
| mwalle | lekernel: polling a IP bit should work without enabling the corresponding bit in IM, shouldnt it? | 22:47 |
| lekernel | mwalle: yes, it should work | 23:02 |
| lekernel | and I did that actually and it worked | 23:02 |
| mwalle | yeah it works, either i've used an outdated rom file or i finally trigger that RAM8 not initialized bug | 23:04 |
| --- Fri Mar 18 2011 | 00:00 | |
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