#milkymist IRC log for Monday, 2011-03-07

terpstramwalle, yes - i made my own firmware loading and debugging tool using altera's tcl interpretter09:32
terpstrait speaks the JTAG to the cyclone3 for me09:32
terpstrahowever, i'm replacing that now with a modularized C++ program that connects all the components from USB->FTDI->USB-Blaster->JTAG state machine->Cyclone3 regmap->Altera SLD hub->LM32 remap->debug rom uart->RAM/CSR/GDB interface09:34
terpstrathe idea being that you can plug the pieces together to support other devices09:34
terpstraif i had more time, i'd make it have a clicky-gui where you could drag and drop the components together and then double-click on things like a RAM/gdb interface in the picture to launch some interface to the chain you built09:35
terpstrathe part i've been working on so far has been how to run messages inside the interconnection DAG whilst maximizing the size of buffer processed at a each step09:37
Fallenoulekernel: RMS is doing a talk in London this afternoon15:43
Fallenoudo you want me to plant a bomb ? :p15:43
lekernelno but if you can talk him into supporting our stuff it'd be great15:47
lekernelwe _need_ advertisement15:47
Fallenouwhat could I say for example ?15:48
Fallenou(I didn't plan on attending btw)15:48
lekernelI don't know, and it probably won't be easy since mm soc points out problems with the arbitrary hw/sw partitioning of the FSF15:53
lekerneliirc rms did try to make some free HDL designs at some point, you might want to read up on this15:53
Fallenouhooo didn't know15:54
lekernel"Firmware such as programs for programmable logic devices or microcoded machines are software, and can be copylefted like any other software"16:00
lekernelyeah well16:00
lekernelyou can start with that16:00
lekerneland mention LLHDL/Antares, since that's something Opencores never thought about doing (so he doesn't think we're the next openrisk)16:01
kristianpaulFallenou may talk to him about copyleft ASICs but is kind of early for that16:03
kristianpaulAlso point him how hardware is getting more close to be a lockware system, and how that can affect the free software that run on it.16:04
kristianpaulwell just some random ideas..16:04
Fallenouhumm I guess he knows that16:06
Fallenouit's kind of in the text16:06
kristianpaulah, let me read..16:07
FallenouI think I won't go16:07
Action: kristianpaul stop reading16:07
FallenouI prefer taking the time to prepare the slides for OSHUG16:07
kristianpaulcopying, he is very extremist on that part of course is not posible, but dunno what he things about manufacture16:08
kristianpaulFallenou: if add a new driver to rtems bsdp for mm1 or just modify some lines in one, DO i need do the whole boostraping again? or it can be specific?16:27
kristianpaulfor the part of the code changed16:27
kristianpaulthe boostraping script detect that changes or i must tell it?16:27
Fallenouif you add C files16:30
Fallenouyou have to redo the bootstrapping16:30
Fallenoubut only for the subtree you modified16:30
Fallenoufor example you could just redo the bootstrap from c/src/lib/libbsp/lm32/16:30
Fallenouit is MUCH faster than redo the entire bootstrap16:31
kristianpaulie boostrap last chnages Fallenou did on the ethernet driver16:31
Fallenouoh, if you just modified the content of an already existing C/H file16:31
Fallenoudon't need to bootstrap16:31
Fallenoujust type make16:31
kristianpaulbut if i add a new driver, i need to do the _whole_ boostrap?16:32
Fallenoujust do the bootstrap for the subtree you modified16:32
kristianpauljust the tree16:32
kristianpaulah ok16:32
Fallenouyou can do like ../../../../bootstrap -option16:32
FallenouI recommand doing the bootstrap -c then -p then without argument16:33
Fallenouto get everything cleaned up16:33
Fallenoubut *from* the subtree16:33
Fallenouno the root of the tree16:33
kristianpaulhehe sure16:33
kristianpauli dont want more coffe ;-)16:34
Fallenouif you add a driver do not forget to add it to the driver array in your application16:34
kristianpaulwhats the driver array? an include?16:34
Fallenouand to add the c/h files to the bsp Makefile.am16:34
Fallenouwell for some drivers you can just activate them using something like16:35
Fallenouit will add the driver to the driver array for you16:36
Fallenoubut if you do a driver for something RTEMS does not have a macro like this for16:36
Fallenouyou have to do the array yourself16:36
Fallenoulike it is done in flickernoise16:36
Fallenouline 24316:36
Fallenouto give the driver table entry16:37
Fallenoui.e the list of callback functions that your driver has16:37
Fallenouusually there is something like read() write() open() close() initialize()16:37
Action: kristianpaul save this chat16:38
kristianpaulFallenou: there is some recomendation for drivers related with DMA in rtems?16:39
Fallenoui don't know16:39
Fallenoumaybe ask on RTEMS ML16:39
kristianpauli was thiking in the rtems way.. asi i guess you should follow some coding standards toa void a bad driver could crash the ssytem..16:40
Fallenoulook there : http://www.rtems.com/onlinedocs/doc-current/share/rtems/html/c_user/c_user00417.html16:41
Fallenouoh and if you do so (putting your own device driver table)16:42
Fallenouyou have to specify CONFIGURE_HAS_OWN_DEVICE_DRIVER_TABLE16:43
Fallenoubut I guess if you use "CONFIGURE_APPLICATION_EXTRA_DRIVERS" like in flickernoise you don't need that16:44
Fallenouyou add *extra* device drivers, you do not specify the table yourself16:44
Fallenouif I'm not clear enough, tell me16:45
Fallenou(and specify the good CONFIGURE_MAXIMUM_DRIVERS)16:45
Fallenoubut you can really take example on flickernoise16:53
Fallenouabout the configuration for using extra drivers16:54
Fallenouor maybe if you don't want to get lost by the size of flickernoise, take example on the testsuites/samples/milkymist_gpio/init.c code16:54
Fallenouwhich is doing it another way, specifying all the driver address table itself16:55
Fallenouit's the other way of doing it :)16:55
Fallenouhum this code needs cleanup too16:56
Fallenouthe best is to take example on the flickernoise code, really16:57
kristianpaulFallenou: sure, i already experimenting with flicernoise on a local branch17:04
kristianpaulnot driver part yet17:04
FallenouI was talking for the "adding extra driver" part17:05
kristianpaulyeah, thats on my TODO, thats i was asking before17:06
CIA-82llhdl: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * ra371227 / (9 files in 3 dirs): Netlist: Antares output - http://bit.ly/gzHE5H17:10
CIA-82llhdl: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r3342089 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Netlist: DOT output - http://bit.ly/fK40AN17:10
CIA-82llhdl: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r9399d89 / README : README: Update homepage - http://bit.ly/exo3Px17:10
CIA-82antares: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * rebf31a7 / (include/chip/db.h test-router/route.c): More performance - http://bit.ly/er1iB617:11
CIA-82antares: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r7296607 / test-router/route.c : Print pips like in XDL - http://bit.ly/enLCro17:11
CIA-82antares: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * ra479a14 / (antares-mkdb/main.c include/chip/store.h libchip/store.c): mkdb: compress output - http://bit.ly/eri5tF17:11
CIA-82antares: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r4289758 / antares-mkdb/main.c : Fix memory leak - http://bit.ly/fCepEb17:11
CIA-82llhdl: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r265c35e / (libllhdl/CMakeLists.txt llhdl-spartan6-map/main.c): spartan6-map: fix memory leak - http://bit.ly/gwGouG17:12
Action: kristianpaul check the early (08/2009) commits of milkymist 18:29
Action: kristianpaul wonders how was milkymist soc in 2007 ;-)18:32
scrtsthe project is so old ? o_O18:32
CIA-82llhdl: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r5768441 / (5 files in 5 dirs): Consistent getopt use - http://bit.ly/gOLcmx18:43
CIA-82llhdl: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * rde1fb3e / (16 files in 6 dirs): Consistent naming - http://bit.ly/ihNF5b18:57
scrtsI see that milkymist has vga output.. was here a discusion to implement DVI or not? :)19:40
lekernelyou're only seeing that now?19:41
scrtsI saw that... would be a better beginning of the sentence? :)19:41
Fallenoulekernel: I don't understand in your slides of the 26C3 why the vga framebuffer would take only 900 Mbps and not 1800 Mbps19:45
FallenouI guess it's because of the "double buffering"19:45
Fallenoubut I still don't understand why19:45
lekernelno, double buffering doesn't have anything to do with that19:45
Fallenouso if we have a 3 MB framebuffer19:45
Fallenouand 75 MHz19:45
Fallenouor refresh rate19:45
lekernelformula is hres * vres * screen refresh rate * bits per pixel19:45
scrtsemm, so why not DVI? expensive interface chips? harder to implement?19:46
lekernelscrts: because no one has DVI except for monitors19:46
Fallenoulekernel: ok so it's the 3 MB that I don"t understand19:47
scrtsah, didn't think that most projectors also use standard vga cable :)19:47
Fallenou1024*768*2 ?19:47
lekernelI cannot count how many times I had to answer that question... should be in the faq19:47
lekerneldamn this faq needs some update19:48
FallenouI get 1.5 MB19:48
Fallenoujust the half19:48
lekernelFallenou: the size takes is impacted by the double buffer, but not the bandwidth19:49
Fallenouok right19:49
FallenouI get it now :)19:49
Fallenouand I guess distorsion is 1024*768*30*16*2 because it needs to read and to write19:51
Fallenoulekernel: at page 24 (the two triangles and about cache and bursts), on the left triangle if I understand correctly you say that a pixel is at first a cache miss, then the next one is a cache hit (because of the burst+cache), right ?20:01
Fallenouand then what about the second triangle ?20:01
Fallenouand the fact that it's rotated20:01
Fallenouis there something to understand on this second triangle ?20:02
Fallenouand the scanlines20:02
Fallenou(sorry for all the questions but I'm just making sure I understand what I will be talking about :))20:03
lekernelthe second triangle is the triangle that is drawn20:07
lekernelas output20:07
Fallenouno optimization to explain on the second  one then ?20:08
lekernelthe point of the figure is to explain how a cache can improve memory read performance on this example20:09
lekernelso, no20:09
Fallenouok so the main idea is presented by the triangle on the left20:09
Fallenouok thanks :)20:09
Fallenouwanted to make sure I didn't miss something important20:10
lekernelyeah but the triangle on the right explains why the sequence of reads in the triangle on the left is like that20:10
Fallenouthe sequence of read is always for left to right, no ?20:12
lekernellarsc: mwalle: do you want to mentor the linux port stuff?20:47
lekernelfor gsoc20:47
larsclekernel: at least not officially. i want to participate in gsoc as a student and you can't be mentor for one project and student at another one20:56
CIA-82milkymist: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r2580940 / cores/csrbrg/rtl/csrbrg.v : typo - http://bit.ly/eN2gXR21:35
CIA-82antares: Sebastien Bourdeauducq master * r323bdcb / (7 files in 5 dirs): Packer skeleton - http://bit.ly/gnoaF422:06
Fallenouhttp://opencores.org/project,plasma < sounds nice :)23:42
Fallenoua little bit slow but nice23:42
Fallenoufound it looking at : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uINYeGkGkdE&feature=player_embedded#at=2023:42
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