#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2017-05-22

kyakwpwrak: i didn't know there exists such thing as WD-80. Is it twice as better as WD-40? It's like improving a blue tape (already perfect)05:16
wpwrakkyak: hmm, seems to be a local thing. it's a wd-40 clone, but with a bit of teflon added. actually, they call it W80, not wd-80.13:02
kyakwpwrak: ah, interesting15:10
whitequarkwd-40 is kind of crappy actually, even when used for its intended purpose. it is also not a lubricant in the least15:24
whitequarkthe blue tape being good (much perfect) must be sarcasm. or you never used it.15:25
whitequarkthat said. wd-80 with teflon particles actually well *could* be a half-decent lubricant15:25
whitequarkif you want to see an example of truly good utility tape, try this: https://www.amazon.com/Gardner-HTP-1010-Purpose-Silicone-Self-sealing/dp/B00004WLKT?th=115:26
whitequarkself-fusing silicone tape. not just sticks to itself but actually bonds on molecular level, forming a connection as strong or almost as strongas the original material15:27
whitequarkinert, waterproof, doesn't become brittle, doesn't degrade under UV if black, doesn't turn into goo or leak glue all over your connections, corroding plastics or degrading the contact15:28
whitequarkstretchy as heck. insulates well. doubles as heatshrink, more or less15:29
whitequarkoh and doesn't harden when cold or melt when hot, in some ridiculous temperature range (this says -65 to 260, which is a bit hard to believe)15:29
whitequarkso my advice is to drop the harmful nostalgia and look for what actually works well :p15:31
whitequarkoh and re: tape, i don't mean that particular brand, it's a completely generic thing. was just first link in amazon search.15:32
kyakvery well, i'm buying it :)16:34
kyakthe blue tape - yes, it was a joke. "Everything can be fixed with a blue tape"16:35
whitequarkwell, it's sort of true, isn't it? with the right amount of skill you can go very far with utility tape16:52
whitequarkthe thing is, the blue pvc tape you are talking of is a really, really awful one...16:52
whitequarkas for wd-40, hmmm, i would replace it with a few different things16:53
whitequarkyou need a cleaner and a lubricant. they do not really mix. lubricant is an easier choice, most things that are fixed by wd-40 should either be re-lubricated with the cheap mineral oil they started with, or cleaned and then lubricated with a thin or thick ptfe-based lubricant. superlube is the american brand16:55
whitequarkptfe lubricants aren't cheap if you have a car repair shop, but for a hobbyist they are a perfect choice, really16:56
whitequarka cleaner is harder. there is "brake cleaner", which is actually not a single cleaner but a set of completely unrelated solvents in a pressurized can16:57
whitequarksome of them are basically a "throw everything into the mix, *someone*'s gotta attack that": https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9WNl1NUAAAe4kQ.jpg:large16:57
whitequarkthat shit is always extremely flammable, always a CNS depressant and inhalation hazard, and sometimes strongly carcinogenic16:58
whitequarkon top of that it tends to attack virtually every polymer, including chemically resistant specialty ones, I think only the PTFE-based ones will withstand it for prolonged periods16:59
kyakthat's a LOT of information :)17:00
whitequarkoh and old brake cleaners used to contain chlorinated hydrocarbons, which absolutely *excel* at being solvents, but are potent greenhouse gases *and* decompose to phosgene when welding the surface afterwards17:00
whitequarkin general, if it has plastic parts, use absolute ethanol or isopropanol, or ether solvents like THF or dimethoxymethane as they are milder17:02
whitequarkif it's some sort of organic gunk, a mixture of methanol/ethanol and acetone and/or heptane is nice17:03
whitequarkif it's water-soluble, well, use water17:03
whitequarkif it has fats on it but not aluminium parts, apply (NaOH) drain cleaner to it17:03
whitequarkor pure acetone, that also works rather nicely17:04
whitequarkI *think* if I had to choose only one, it would have been, in order of preference, isopropyl chloride, ethyl benzoate, or a mix of isopropanol with 2-methylpentane or hexane17:06
whitequarkaggravatingly, it looks like only a mix of isopropanol with hexane is cheap and available enough to use for a hobbyist without a nearby chemical supplier.17:08
Action: whitequark makes some vague gestures17:08
whitequarkyou might conclude that I had a hard time getting unidentified gunk off expensive shit. you will not be wrong.17:09
wpwrakdoes it move ? if yes, should it ? if yes: no problem. else: use duct tape (US) or wire (AR).17:10
wpwrakif it doesn't move, should it move ? if not: no problem. if yes: use hammer to increase degrees of freedom.17:10
wpwraksee, no tricky chemistry involved ;-)17:11
whitequarkwpwrak: that works if your problem is mechanical in nature.17:11
kyaka guy walks into an auto shop and asks for WD-40. The salesman responds <insert last 20 minutes from whitequark>. I think it's a good anecdote for some chemistry class :)17:11
whitequarkbut not if you have a problem with leaking or seizing or insufficient insulation...17:11
wpwrakwhitequark: if your problem is a leaking pipe, a hammer will eventually make that problem go away, too, either by somehow stopping the leak, or by gradually converting the pipe into a non-pipe :)17:13
whitequarkkyak: a guy walks into an auto shop and asks for WD-40. the car part he applies it to fails. he blames it on some sort of "planned obsolescence" and not the fact that applying wd-40 actually removes lubrication and promotes corrosion17:13
wpwrakcorrosion: putin did it !17:13
whitequarkwpwrak: if you take that line of thought to its logical conclusion, then suicide is the answer for all problems. they will certainly stop bothering you, what's not to like?17:14
kyakwhitequark: i use wd-40 ocasionally to make wipers push better to the window. They tend to rust at joint point.. 17:15
wpwrakwhitequark: it's more fun if you take a gradual approach. there are a lot of pipes you can abuse before you have to resort to more drastic measures.17:15
whitequarkkyak: WD-40 reminds me of antivirus software. widely promoted by "experts" and considered an absolute necessity, but it actually makes you strictly more vulnerable17:15
whitequarkthe main benefit of both is enriching the people who are selling them17:16
whitequarkoh also, do you know those springy lock nuts? same thing. they make the connection come apart *faster*.17:16
whitequarkbut suggest this to someone, even supplied with empirical data, and they will defend them as if you insulted their religion.17:17
whitequarkand the "use two nuts immediately adjacent" thing too, though that's just placebo17:18
kyakbut.. why?17:18
kyaki thought lock nuts do work17:19
whitequarkeffective methods are, 1, loctite, 2, nylon inserts, 3, lock nuts from hardened steel that impinge the base metal and the nut17:19
wpwrakwhitequark: (springy lock) you mean these ? https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_w.html17:19
whitequarkwpwrak: the "split style" ones17:19
whitequarkthe "star" style ones are slightly less bad though still basically placebo17:20
whitequarkkyak: well17:20
whitequarkthere are two possibilities17:20
whitequarkeiher the split lock washer gets completely flattened and plastically deformed (when was the last time you used a torque wrench for it?), and then it just becomes a regular washer17:21
whitequarktighten it, then remove the nut, observe17:21
whitequarkor, the split lock washer actually does not get flattend, and actually does act as a spring, in which case it works as a sort of "ratchet" that, with the aid of vibration, helps unscrew the nut17:22
whitequarkyou can prove it by building a vibrational test stand and then testing the different kinds of connections17:23
wpwrakwhitequark: hmm, i though the mode of operation was to press the nut against the thread, to increase friction. e.g., if the things your screw holds together are non-elastic or may even yield, the nut would become unloaded over time. the split washer should prevent that.17:25
kyakhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2rrf38fCkQ17:26
kyakwoof. took a while to find it17:26
whitequarkwpwrak: well however it is supposed to work, it empirically doesn't17:26
kyaki conclude: lock nuts work :)17:27
whitequarkkyak: lol they should just use an angle grinder17:28
whitequarknot at the rods, at the plate holding them together17:28
wpwrakkyak: they need to go to quite some extremes to keep their vodake from the coworkers ;-)17:28
whitequarkor even better, switch to drinking isoamyl alcohol17:29
kyaki say, they should unbend the rods17:29
whitequarknot only you don't get a hangover (it's almost completely nontoxic), but you also need just 2-3ml to get drunk17:29
whitequarki mean there's a few other ways too, like about 100mg of beta-parachlorophenyl-gammaaminobutyric acid, or about 2g of beta-phenylgammaaminobutyric acid, though that might not impair your cognitive functions quite enough to achieve the desired effect17:31
whitequarklike honestly, who even drinks *ethanol*, like some sort of goddamn *animal*17:32
whitequarknext thing you'll tell me you're inhaling *smoke* like the uncivilized rube you are17:32
whitequarkor making plant *infusions* containing dozens of potent alkaloids, as if we're in a hunter-gatherer society still17:34
whitequarkhonestly, I would pay someone to remove all ethanol from cider or wine, to make it drinkable17:37
wpwrakhmm, i'm beginning to understand why "vodka" means "water". the videos that followed after the cage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY4P_YsSWgE  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U78-6YCS4LE17:37
whitequarkthat should be classified as attempted suicide.17:41
wpwrakthe last one looks pretty good. ready to start his shift at the nuclear plant :)17:45
kyakwpwrak: just beware of what's youtube will suggest you next! you are about to get dragged into "russian internet" :)17:55
wpwrakkyak: naw, it sent me on to a guy shooting things, including wd-40 cans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6VpwcJfamY17:57
wpwrakstill, kinda boring17:57
kyakok, we are not alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDAAkZD8wms18:02
kyakgood to know :)18:02
wpwrak1/2 gallon = 1.9 l. not bad.18:15
kyakmost is wasted18:19
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