#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2016-05-11

whitequarkooh finally some sanity https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2016/05/finally-germany-abolishes-open-wi-fi-liability-users-behavior/09:55
wpwraknow they just have to get rid of the "abmahnung", and we could welcome them back to civilization :)10:29
whitequarkhuh11:26
wpwrakwhitequark: you know that "abmahnung" thing ? it works like this: if you see something that seems illegal and you're entitled to legally act against it, e.g., if some of your rights are being violated or if, say, a competitor is (supposedly) getting an unfair advantage by not following some regulation you're bound to as well, then you can send them a "cease and desist" letter - and charge for this service.11:45
wpwrakso instead of having to send a friendly letter reminding them to be good citizen, or else, you can already collect money. the idea is (nominally) that this would just compensate your effort/costs and reduce the number of issues that go to court.11:46
wpwrakthe real-life consequence is of course that a lot of lawyers realized that this is a license to print money. all they need to do is find some trivial violation of some regulation, then find someone who is entitled to sue, then work with them to send that c&d letter on their behalf11:47
wpwrakthose violations can be slightly incorrect company details on the web side, incorrect use of units in produce descriptions (e.g., 23 in screen instead of 58 cm), and so on.11:50
wpwrakand of course, any sort of copyright infringement is pure gold. in many cases it wouldn't be worth the effort to actually sue, but with these c&d letters the numbers work11:51
whitequarkyeah, just looked it up in the wiki11:51
whitequarkenwiki says basically what you just did11:51
DocScrutinizer05((germany-abolishes-open-wi-fi-liability)) not exactly right I guess. for now they only retired the idiotic "you must protect your WLAN against unauthorized use" rule12:25
whitequarkoh12:25
DocScrutinizer05I guess they still can rape you when somethign bad happens over your internet access, 12:26
DocScrutinizer05maybe you can actually point to your access protocols now and tell them the MAC of the offender, to get rid of liability12:26
whitequarkMACs are trivial to change...12:27
DocScrutinizer05sure12:27
whitequarkand they're also very not unique12:27
DocScrutinizer05but that's all you can reasonably provide from any protols12:28
whitequarkiirc about 1-2% of MAC addresses in any 1000 selection will have duplicates12:28
whitequarkbased on some real-world datasets I've seen12:28
DocScrutinizer05basically it's probably sufficient to prove there been *any* unknown user on your WLAN at that time12:29
whitequarkI don't see how that proves anything. you'll need logs that can't be trivially spoofed12:29
DocScrutinizer05so far it's been you who paid all the fines since you couldn't argue that it wasn't you who offended any copyright or whatever12:29
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: it's not about what *we* consider reasonable12:30
DocScrutinizer05this is legalese12:30
whitequarkjudges are not idiots12:30
DocScrutinizer05yes they are12:30
DocScrutinizer05for finding evidence, just review all court decisions around WLAN et al of the last 10 years or so12:31
DocScrutinizer05people got to pay C&D and copyright royalties for allegedly participating in a peer2peer sharing while they evidently were in holiday and nobody at home12:32
whitequarkand courts ruled that they did break law?12:33
DocScrutinizer05yes12:33
whitequarkhm12:33
DocScrutinizer05not criminal laws but civil laws12:33
whitequarkwell, you know, I did run a torrent client in background without turning off my PC12:33
whitequarkso I can actually see that happening12:33
DocScrutinizer05meh12:34
DocScrutinizer05the judge had no idea about the technical details12:34
DocScrutinizer05judges are as uneducated and stupid when it comes to internet as any random average joe is 12:35
DocScrutinizer05thus this new law is pretty relevant,particularly when it comes to judges deciding if or if not you're "guilty"12:37
DocScrutinizer05so far you were guolty no matter what, now you're generally not guilty when you can argue that it's not been you who actually did the download12:38
DocScrutinizer05to do so, you don't necessarily need to provide the name of legit MAC address of the real offender12:39
DocScrutinizer05s/of/or/12:39
DocScrutinizer05this implicit /g in that bot's sed function sucks big time12:40
whitequarkunrelated; did you have any success with solvespace UI since then?12:43
whitequarkI think I fixed all your kwin woes...12:43
wpwrakalas, the text window still doesn't stay on top in fvwm. i can work around it by keeping the virtual screen empty and lowering GW whenever TW has been lowered (i.e., on startup or when a modal dialog pops up), though12:58
whitequarkwpwrak: yeah. set_transient_for worked for KDE, window type utility worked for Unity (and I think gnome too)12:59
whitequarkI suspect that trying to force-lower/raise it will just break things for someone else13:00
wpwraknow you just have to find whatever magic combination works with fvwm ;-)13:00
wpwrakbut given how difficult all this is, i wonder if you may be using a mechanism that isn't really suitable13:01
whitequarkI think fvwm is just broken13:01
whitequarkit doesn't respect the above flag, the transent for property...13:01
whitequarkthe utility window type, too13:02
whitequarkwell, I guess it doesn't have to respect the above flag as it's discouraged to set it in the program by very ICCCM13:04
wpwrakyes. btw, the same happens in gimp. but there i'm not even sure if the intention is to really have these subwindows above the main window all the time.13:14
DocScrutinizer51whitequark: (solvespace) it worked, both windows come up in sync13:19
whitequarkcool13:28
DocScrutinizer51whitequark: what did you patch?13:50
DocScrutinizer51in short IRC compatible 13:51
wpwraknow, let's break something ...14:04
wpwrakthe solution for fvwm: Style "*" RaiseTransient, LowerTransient, StackTransientParent15:10
wpwraknow i wish i knew why fvwm thinks it can't print full error message. all it does it say "<<ERRROR>>". ah well, it didn't bother me in the last one or two decades, so it shan't bother me now15:12
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