#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2016-04-28

wpwrakthe autodetect doesn't seem to support dual-head. it usually finds one screen, though.00:14
DocScrutinizer05I generally despise the basic concept of "autodetect" without interactive override/supervision00:26
DocScrutinizer05it's what makes M$ products such unbearable crap00:27
DocScrutinizer05any such autodetect aka "smart wizard" always works for 99% of usual cases at best, while failing in a way far beyond what's called 'epic', for the remaining 1+%00:29
DocScrutinizer05actually it seems those 1% fringe cases never are tested in any of such wizards, and the result when confronting the system with a fringe case are completely unpredictable00:30
wpwrakoh, you have those overrides, in the form of xorg.conf. something i learned to day, though, is that it now ignores instructions in xorg.conf it doesn't like. that's a feature i hadn't noticed before.00:30
DocScrutinizer05yeah, poor documentation of any such "override" path is basicaly concept immanent00:31
DocScrutinizer05as is missing QA for the same features00:31
wpwrakdocumentation wouldn't help - there's far too much stuff in xorg.conf :)00:31
DocScrutinizer05it's the wrong approach on a very very basic level00:31
wpwraka visual configurator would be nice. show the cards, show what's connected, try to display something.00:32
DocScrutinizer05even the devels think "it's not worth looking into that annoying stuff meant to deal with only <1% of usecases"00:32
DocScrutinizer05and that's a immanent result from the "auto wizard" approach00:33
wpwrakthe data can be patched together from the x server log, xrandr, and such, but it's messy and very easy to get wrong00:33
wpwrakin any case, it just surprised me that two screens was so hard. i'm used to triple-head being an epic uphill battle, but dual-head ought to be less painful.00:34
DocScrutinizer05KDE knows to handle dual-head in a very seamless manner, when I plug a new moni to my PC. However I dunno where's the limit at which it again fails completely00:36
DocScrutinizer05NB I never configured the system to work dual-headed00:39
DocScrutinizer05I just connected a 21:9 moni to a HDI/DP jack I found on backside of this PC00:39
DocScrutinizer05and it instantly switched to dual-headed00:40
DocScrutinizer05the screenshot above shows single-moni state though00:41
DocScrutinizer05the icons at bottom of a screen symbol are (from left to right): "rotate display 90° counterclockwise",  "toggle primary output"  and  "Show list of available display resolutions"00:43
DocScrutinizer05obviously you can rearrange displays by dragging them to where they belong to, and you can enable/disable then with the checkbox. No idea where to switch between multi-desktop and tiled desktop00:44
wpwrakyeah, i don't have fancy "desktop" utilities to rearrange the server configuration. my workflow is more linear: x server finds and sets up the displays, then fvwm uses them. not even sure what fvwm would do if a new screen suddenly appeared.00:51
DocScrutinizer05my comment was more about "this dang KDE obviously does something, and maybe it does it correctly most of them time. Alas no idea WHAT it does, but... it's FOSS so the sourcecode should tell, in an ideal world"00:53
wpwrakyes, sometimes that haystack can be rather big :)00:53
DocScrutinizer05maybe that helps to reduce the haystack00:55
wpwraklooks like a big haystack :) also, the fun bits are probably in some middleware00:56
DocScrutinizer05yeah, probably01:01
DocScrutinizer05the shitty thin g doesn't even have a cmdline option to open the right subsection for display management01:02
DocScrutinizer05would a strace of hitting "Apply" button help you?01:03
wpwraknaw, this works at a completely different level than where i am. i don't want to reconfigure a running x server. i need it to start correctly, given a static configuration.01:10
wpwrakin any case, what i have seems to work. the missing :0 will probably upset some thing, but there shouldn't be a lot of them.01:11
DocScrutinizer05prolly worthless without /proc/fd/* listing01:13
wpwrakyeah, a lot of binary messages being exchanged with something else. you'd really have to analyze the whole chain of critters to even know what it does. and then that still wouldn't help, since i'm at a completely different interface.01:14
wpwrakxrandr was useful, though, to provide an overview of what i should be looking for in the server log :)01:14
DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/14069323  s/without.*//01:14
DocScrutinizer05I bet even a dbus-monitor gives better info than that strace01:15
DocScrutinizer05and I'd not at all feel surprised to find systemd involved once again01:16
DocScrutinizer05btw please hand me a bucket for vo.... err  /home/jr/.config/ibus01:26
DocScrutinizer05wtf is ibus now? seen that at least 3 times during last year - as if dbus wasn't disgusting enough01:27
DocScrutinizer05MHM https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/IBus01:30
DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/eagle-7.5> set|grep ibus01:32
DocScrutinizer05and a `dbus-monitor` made me fall off my chair01:36
DocScrutinizer05kcookiejar calls more than the display can cope with01:37
DocScrutinizer05http://s7.addthis.com/  what the hell01:37
DocScrutinizer05method call sender=:1.62142 -> dest=org.kde.kded serial=504585 path=/modules/kcookiejar; interface=org.kde.KCookieServer; member=addCookies    string "http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Refurbished-Nokia-N900-original-unlocked-phone-GPS-WIFI-5MP-32GB-internal-memory-support-Russian-keyboard/1005214_32275594984.html?aff_platform=aaf&sk=eub6yrrBy:&cpt=1460273616786&af=5483&cv=41107&cn=2o5eqc0pqysr2yl45r2zns7f187ul8ml&dp=v5_01:40
DocScrutinizer052o5eqc0pqysr2yl45r2zns7f187ul8ml&afref=http://colossalous.com/aen/&aff_trace_key=15361670cf5b4bc38079114268a9f600-1460273616786-06680-eub6y"    array of bytes "Set-Cookie: isg=8B566AAFD14854C960881B82AD4077B1; expires=Sat, 28-May-2016 01:39:57 GMT; domain=aliexpress.com; path=/"    int64 203423763 method return sender=:1.12 -> dest=:1.62142 reply_serial=50458501:40
DocScrutinizer05helped me to identify 4 browser windows I closed and thus reduced my CPU load from 10% to 2%01:46
DocScrutinizer05(ballpark figures)01:47
DocScrutinizer05nice: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/04/28/plasma-desktopRl2219.png01:51
DocScrutinizer05anyway checking dbus isn't feasible, way too much noise there01:52
wpwrakkilling runaway tabs is really easy in chromium: since each has its own process, you just kill anything that burns 100%03:31
wpwrakbtw, my new monitor has an external power supply. in the 1st generation, the backlights failed first. so i went to LED in the 2nd generation. there, the power supply area failed (always caps, but also accompanied by other bits). let's see where they put the bug in the 3rd generation.03:34
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: the problem being that this didn't really show up as runaway process in/of browser, the CPU load is mainly with dbus etc I guess04:39
DocScrutinizer05(external PSU) same here with this LG 21:9 monitor04:40
DocScrutinizer05I'm still undecided if I appreciate or dislike this design04:40
DocScrutinizer05on the bright side: it makes simple "UPS" setups pretty easy04:41
Action: DocScrutinizer05 checks the voltage of that PSU)04:41
whitequarkchromium doesn't use dbus04:41
whitequarkchromium uses SysV IPC for everything and also shared memory04:42
DocScrutinizer05but *I* don't use *chromium* ;-D04:42
DocScrutinizer05still with konqueror04:43
whitequarkah, idk about konqueror04:43
DocScrutinizer05and konqueror, as a true KDE app, uses dbus for literally everything04:44
DocScrutinizer05particularly to connect to kcookiejar04:44
whitequarkokay that's a very stupid design04:44
whitequarkSMD reflow with a blowtorch04:45
whitequarkit works quite well04:45
DocScrutinizer05then otoh it separates functional blocks, so you could integrate the rendering part incl cookies and all into arbitrary other apps04:45
DocScrutinizer05blowtorch? EEEW04:46
DocScrutinizer05I bet soldering works quite well, I just wonder how well the silicon chips will work after such torture04:46
whitequarkdidn't have a hot air gun or even a skillet yesterday, so did it by using a ts8000 map/pro (propylene) bernzomatic torch as a "hot air gun"04:46
whitequarknote i didn't put anything into the flame, i just used the hot exhaust04:47
whitequarkwhat surprised me was how sedate it is, it actually took quite long to get the board to reflow temp04:47
whitequarkI literally had an easier time ruining a board with a proper SMD rework station04:47
whitequarkSMD rework station: localized heat, relatively low power, annoying to use--prone to inattentively overheating the PCB and delaminating04:48
DocScrutinizer05I'd probably consider pizza carton plus my beloved ATTEN 858D04:49
whitequarkblowtorch: moves MASSIVE amounts of air, 1-2kW of power (iirc), heats up the entire board relatively evenly04:49
whitequarkand you need 1-1.5 minutes to get it to 220 (measured with IR thermometer)04:49
whitequarkmy main concern is the water vapor in the exhaust04:50
DocScrutinizer05LOL  http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/deadly-wiring-fault-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-station/04:51
DocScrutinizer05(water) quite justified04:52
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: any hint on this lil 'problem'?  http://paste.opensuse.org/520175204:53
DocScrutinizer05how the heck are those guys loading kernel modules?04:53
whitequarksudo modprobe04:54
whitequarkmodprobe is in sbin and sbin is not in non-root PATH04:54
DocScrutinizer05wow you're right04:55
DocScrutinizer05usb_storage            53147  0 04:55
DocScrutinizer05scsi_mod              128229  1 usb_storage04:55
DocScrutinizer05Apr 28 06:55:23 UbiqPKD kernel: SCSI subsystem initialized04:56
DocScrutinizer05(PKD = Phillip K. Dick ;-D)04:56
DocScrutinizer05Ubiquiti router04:58
DocScrutinizer05thought my account was semi-rooted, with all root-usual dirs in PATH04:59
DocScrutinizer05this shell is a bitch anyway04:59
DocScrutinizer05still no USB memstick showing up anywhere05:03
DocScrutinizer05this critter has an USB jack that's tagged "for future uses"05:04
DocScrutinizer05lemme see05:04
DocScrutinizer05modprobe ehci_hcd?05:04
DocScrutinizer05RROR: Module ehci_hcd not found05:07
whitequarkhmmm ohci_hcd maybe?05:08
DocScrutinizer05they don't ship the driver, or it's no *hci*_hcd05:11
DocScrutinizer05which wouldn't be too strange, given this is MIPS64 arch iirc05:11
whitequarkwhat does lspci say?05:11
DocScrutinizer05-su: lspci: command not found05:12
whitequarkmmm no pci05:12
whitequarkno idea05:12
whitequarkask ubnt?05:12
DocScrutinizer05I bet this router has no pci ;-)05:12
whitequarkyou'd be surprised05:12
DocScrutinizer05yeah, ask ubnt, that's prolly the best advice05:13
whitequarkI've seen MIPS SoCs with internal PCI05:13
whitequarkmore than once05:13
whitequarkeven ARM SoCs05:13
whitequarkcouldn't believe my eyes the first time. turns out atheros makes wireless PHYs with native PCI05:13
whitequarkthey just put the entire thing on a SoC when going from "PC addon card" to "SoC based router"05:14
DocScrutinizer05I guess I'll check the USB with a ttyUSB/ACM during boot05:15
DocScrutinizer05wouldn't be surprised to find it's the bootloader console05:16
whitequarkit might not even be USB05:16
whitequarkjust using the USB connector05:16
DocScrutinizer05hmm, it's tagged 'USB' anyway05:17
DocScrutinizer05or rather, the USB symbol on device plate05:17
DocScrutinizer05in manual it's "USB, not used. For future use" OWTTE05:17
DocScrutinizer05https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/edgemax/EdgeRouter_ER-8_QSG.pdf  >> USB  Reserved for future use.<<05:24
whitequarkI have an ERL device and it has a RJ45 connector05:25
whitequarkexcept it's actually serial05:26
DocScrutinizer05yep, "Console"05:26
DocScrutinizer05I still wonder where to get a cable for that BS05:27
whitequarkjust make it05:28
whitequarkdon't you have an RJ45 crimper?05:28
DocScrutinizer05btw I inverted/rotated the fans mechanically so they do sane high airpressure case mode instead of the brainfucked vacuum vleaner mode :-)05:28
whitequarknot sure if there's a difference05:28
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I have a db9 jack ;-)05:28
whitequarkfor example I did a 1kW chiller, was a bit surprised to discover that the evap has a fan that pulls air through it05:29
whitequarknot pushed05:29
DocScrutinizer05might cut a regular patchcable05:29
whitequarkbut it works very well nonetheless05:29
DocScrutinizer05well, overpressure is much easier to do nice things like http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20160426_001.jpg05:30
DocScrutinizer05btw that been the reason for watching temperature. Seems my mod cools better than the original setup05:31
DocScrutinizer05and keeps inside of device absolutely dustfree05:31
DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/55024875  vs  (ok, arbitrary) https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/205223410-EdgeMAX-Show-CPU-temperature05:32
DocScrutinizer05anyway two similar fans are causing really annoying interference, my ears suffer05:36
DocScrutinizer05a rack is mandatory to operate this thing05:37
DocScrutinizer05closed type, with door05:37
DocScrutinizer05will benefit my PC and UPS as well05:37
DocScrutinizer05(fan push/pull) it's mainly a matter of placing filters before where you know air *enters* the case. You can't do that in vacuum cleaner mode (the usual PC mode)05:40
DocScrutinizer05the ERpro has ventilation slots *everywhere*05:41
DocScrutinizer05now air comes out there, keeping all dust outside05:41
DocScrutinizer05in factory config air entered everywhere and came out at the tiny fan apertures05:42
DocScrutinizer05I know how devices look inside after doing this a 6 months in my home05:43
DocScrutinizer05particularly annoying for laptops which you have a 'lot of fun' cleaning the heatsinks05:43
DocScrutinizer05killed 3 laptops with this05:44
DocScrutinizer05but *finally* with this nice router my LAN feels sort of secure, with each device having its own eth* IF with its own firewall rules and all05:46
DocScrutinizer05learning about ARP-poisoning drove me nuts05:47
DocScrutinizer05good luck with ARP poisoning my LAN now ;-P05:47
whitequarkhaha yes I pwned the entire Windows domain in high school with ARP poison05:48
whitequarkwouldn't get domain admin had they not use LM hashes though05:48
whitequarklanman hash05:50
DocScrutinizer05never heard of05:50
DocScrutinizer05would googling for lanman help?05:51
whitequarkit's a hash algorithm that first changes the password to uppercase then splits it in two 7-character hash05:51
whitequarkpasswords over 14 characters or non-ASCII are prohibited05:51
whitequarkyou don't even need rainbow tables, you can probably crack it with an abacus05:51
whitequarkI did use rainbow tables though, I got ~40% of all passwords in the domain05:52
whitequarkwithin... two minutes05:52
DocScrutinizer05but with proper ARP cache poisoning you can snoop all traffic in your LAN anyway, so...05:52
whitequarkthe rest used NTLM which took more work05:52
whitequarkyes, that's how I got the domain admin hash05:52
whitequarkand the rest I pulled from the domain controller using l0pht05:52
whitequarkgood fun05:52
whitequarkI reported that to the admin so I haven't even been reprimanded, another guy RATted the domain though and got expelled05:53
whitequarkand/or because he was an asshole, the latter part may have had more weight tbh05:53
DocScrutinizer05my LAN no ARP query or reply can reach any device except the one device which knows there are no ARP replies expected regarding gateway05:54
DocScrutinizer05expected to come from anybody but the router itself05:54
DocScrutinizer05so any ARP poisoning will rather result in an immediate ban of the offender instead of succeeding05:54
DocScrutinizer05one school director said "how can we expect our pupils to develop a sense for security when we forbid any hacking in our school network?"05:58
DocScrutinizer05this guy had rewarded you 05:58
DocScrutinizer05thanked you publicly and appointed you for admin05:59
whitequarkyeah, some sanity still remains in this world05:59
whitequarkin the US they'd probably put you in jail05:59
DocScrutinizer05nice little report ^^^ :-)06:07
DocScrutinizer05did you try brute force VPS?06:07
DocScrutinizer05I guess any arbitrary cooking pot with lid, any arbitrary stove, and a 5cl of Galden, plus some wire bent to keep the PCB a 2cm above the pot's bottom, should do06:09
whitequarkno, still not... I've had enough meatspace troubles that I didn't do any PCB in many months, not one since I received galden06:11
whitequarknext one, I think06:11
DocScrutinizer05to gain perfection you may have to tune the amount of Galden in relation to pot size, and the power and duration of heat applied via stove06:11
whitequarkI think I can even cool down forcibly the top of the vessel06:13
whitequarksince I now have the chiller06:13
DocScrutinizer05great! :-)06:13
whitequarkohhhhh I just realized, galden vapor phase soldering is basically the same as a diffusion pump06:13
DocScrutinizer05I heard of folks using a steel bowl with ice and water inside, for lid of pot06:13
whitequarkthe advantage of my position in HK is I can afford to design nice things rapidly because of taobao06:14
whitequarkhave you seen my chiller?06:15
DocScrutinizer05I had an extremely weird idea: using Galden instead of water in a steam pistol, and then really 'spray' the PCB with Galden vapor06:15
whitequarksteam pistol?06:15
whitequarkwhats that06:15
DocScrutinizer05well, Dampfstrahler06:15
DocScrutinizer05come in different sizes06:15
DocScrutinizer05just a pot to boil water and a nozze where vapor escapes06:16
DocScrutinizer05nozzle even06:16
whitequarksteam cleaner06:16
DocScrutinizer05those things come in handheld for e.g. cleaning windows06:16
whitequarkyeah I know06:16
whitequarkjust never heard as 'pistol'06:16
DocScrutinizer05well, I ,ade that up06:17
whitequarkI think that's not unreasonable but you have two problems06:17
DocScrutinizer05galden mess everywhere being first06:17
whitequarkwell, no, sorry, one06:17
whitequarkwhich is galden escaping06:17
whitequark2nd was me misunderstanding thermodynamics for a moment :)06:17
DocScrutinizer05that's fixing itself :-)06:18
DocScrutinizer05for the mess issue, maybe a huge basin with a glas lid and two holes for your arms would do06:19
whitequarkwhats the benefit?06:21
whitequarkyou can prolly do that but i don't see why would i want to06:21
DocScrutinizer05err, more punctual heating, compared to a complete vapor bath which might be a) not feasible for large board, and b) not even intended, so ther components don't get unsoldered06:22
DocScrutinizer05it's the mega hot air06:23
DocScrutinizer05way better heat transfer, no overheating06:23
DocScrutinizer05the latter obviously thanks to precisely defined vapor temperature06:24
whitequarkthats true that the process is much more versatile06:25
DocScrutinizer05think of it like the no-touch soldering iron ;-)06:25
whitequarkbut i find it hard to imagine where the versatility would justify the drawbacks06:25
whitequarkI like your idea now06:26
Action: DocScrutinizer05 wonders if there's already a patent on that06:26
DocScrutinizer05some contraption designed faintly similar like an e-cig comes to mind06:28
DocScrutinizer05extremely fast ramp-up06:29
DocScrutinizer05control amount of Galden vapor directly via the electrical heating element power06:29
whitequarkfeeding it seems complicated06:30
DocScrutinizer05feeding liquid?06:31
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's what e-cigs are great in06:31
DocScrutinizer05I think it works like a petrol lamp, with a wick of sorts06:31
DocScrutinizer05DAMN YOU, ERproFANS! they create a 5Hz interference06:32
whitequarkyes it has a wick06:33
whitequarkbut that holds very little vapor06:33
whitequarkif it's ok to manually refill it once in a while then that works06:33
whitequarkI'm not sure how much heat (in J) is needed to eg desolder one SMD06:33
DocScrutinizer05yep, of course. You have a 20cl tank with a wick, to hold the Galden. Then at top the wick goes around a .. 50W resistor06:34
whitequarkGalden's heat of vaporization is 63J/g06:34
DocScrutinizer05in a tube that ends in a nozzle06:34
whitequarkso with a 50W resistor you can deliver ~1g/s of galden06:34
whitequarkand so 50W of heat06:34
DocScrutinizer05make that 200W then ;-)06:35
whitequarkthen you need 4g/s06:35
whitequarkgthats a lot of galden06:35
DocScrutinizer05let's just test it :-D06:35
DocScrutinizer05I mean, the Galden shouldn't get lost06:35
DocScrutinizer05of course you want to catch it and 'recycle' it06:36
whitequarkone issue is having too little flow of galden, which makes it decompose to HF and COF206:36
DocScrutinizer05you don't want that :-/06:36
whitequarkeven if you're in respirator06:36
whitequarkHF will destroy your board real well06:36
DocScrutinizer05yeah sure06:37
DocScrutinizer05Galden is nasty like hell when overheated06:37
whitequarkyou can control the temp to make sure it never exceeds 300°C even locally, perhaps06:37
DocScrutinizer05there are those really great PTC heater elements in hot glue pistols06:37
DocScrutinizer05dunno if those also exist for 250°C06:38
DocScrutinizer05I never even checked the temperature of the hotglue06:38
DocScrutinizer05doesn't feel like >200° on my fingers ;-D06:38
whitequarkit should be around 150 for polyolefins, I think06:39
DocScrutinizer05sounds about right, yes06:39
whitequarkover 200 is for polyimides and such06:39
DocScrutinizer05NFC what material that hotglue sticks are06:40
DocScrutinizer05btw where are you located now, after your 8000km move? (I asked that before, but forgot)06:41
whitequarkhotglue sticks are polyethylene usually06:41
whitequarkwhich is a polyolefin06:41
DocScrutinizer05yup, feels like PE06:41
DocScrutinizer05even smells like PE06:42
whitequarkthere's actually a dazzling range of compounds06:42
whitequarkwow, even silicone rubbers06:43
whitequarkholy shit I want that06:43
whitequarkwhat ? ?06:45
DocScrutinizer05what for do you need teflon glue?06:46
whitequarkvery chemically resistant06:46
DocScrutinizer05particularly when it's low temp thermoplast06:46
whitequarkthink sealing something that contains acids, acetone, etc06:46
whitequarkalso: "PTFE wire repair" http://www.te.com/usa-en/about-te/news-center/S1260-hot-melt-tape.html06:47
DocScrutinizer05first and only thing that came to mind: seal bottles with it :-D06:47
DocScrutinizer05repair wires is great, indeed06:47
DocScrutinizer05awesome stuff, this tape06:50
whitequarktold you :)06:50
DocScrutinizer05did you see any data, like shrinking/curing temperature, or price?06:51
whitequark"No cracking after06:51
whitequark4 hr. at -55°C"06:51
whitequarker http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=1-1773867-5_s1260&DocType=DS&DocLang=EN06:51
DocScrutinizer05aah a pdf06:51
whitequarkfor 25ft?06:52
whitequarkseems reaosnable06:52
DocScrutinizer05hmmph where?06:53
DocScrutinizer05and still no usage manual06:53
whitequark2nd link06:53
whitequarkjust wrap it and heat?06:53
DocScrutinizer05:-(((  >>  (10-roll minimum order, each bagged and  labeled separately)<<06:53
DocScrutinizer05The resource you are looking for has been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.06:54
whitequarktry this06:56
DocScrutinizer05I found it via fronpage search06:57
DocScrutinizer05Farnell claims to have it, but always redirects me to http://de.farnell.com/pro-power/tts-s12-6014-nat/heat-shrink-tubing-3-81mm-id-ptfe/dp/1726389 for S126007:05
DocScrutinizer05also nice (4:1 shrink)  http://www.ebay.de/itm/RP-4800-NR10-Tyco-Raychem-Black-Heat-Shrink-Tubing-1-2mtrs-/26154103916307:18
infobotmooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you are too; join us all! type apt-get moo.18:55
rohDocScrutinizer05: https://github.com/mtoyoda/sl ;)I19:04
DocScrutinizer05sl ?19:10
rohapt-get install sl ;)19:11
DocScrutinizer05zypper in sl19:13
DocScrutinizer05No provider of 'sl' found.19:14
--- Fri Apr 29 201600:00

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