#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2016-04-13

DocScrutinizer05hmm, it's mainly a question of presets and people not changing them00:56
DocScrutinizer05using such style http://wstaw.org/m/2016/04/13/plasma-desktopJV2219.png you never will get decent schematics ;-)00:58
wpwrakoh, hadn't even spotted this one. that's hardcore old-style ;-) at least it doesn't also mix connected and unconnected "+" crossings. though it has the connected variant.04:11
azkaySay I get one of these: seeedstudio.com/wiki/Grove_-_FM_Receiver seeedstudio.com/wiki/images/7/70/Grove_-_FM_Receiver_v1.0_sch_pdf.pdf05:48
azkayApparently, I can run it standalone without getting a Grove board, but it won't remember the frequency I'm on.05:49
azkayI don't want to use a microcontroller, I just want a (what I thought was simple), analog volume wheel, and to set it to a permanent frequency. Apparently no one sells a module like that05:49
azkayAny ideas on modifying something like this for that? Or am I going to just have to use a microcontroller?05:50
DocScrutinizer05I think that chip is designed to do soft-off and keeps settings as long as you don't cut the power supply09:07
DocScrutinizer05anything else wouldn't make any sense, chip design wise09:07
DocScrutinizer05of course it has no persistent storage09:08
eintopfpopulate radio transmissions over flying robots -> use case, which you can see in fallout games09:09
DocScrutinizer05if only because it's a tad more complicated to integrate flash cells and RF structures on same die09:09
DocScrutinizer05azkay: the chip will remember the settings as long as you don't remove the batteries09:21
azkayI seeeee. You always come to my rescue :P09:23
DocScrutinizer05if you'd want to have a hardcoded fixed frequency, you would either need a chip that allows flashing that frequency, then you can't change it without using a flasher. Or the chip would need at least 8 inputs to select the FM channel binary, incl finetuning09:23
DocScrutinizer05I don't think either exists09:24
azkayThanks for the info :), as always09:24
DocScrutinizer05yw :-) thanks for finding that chip09:24
azkayGotta goooo, have a train to catch09:24
azkayNo problem09:24
eintopf8 inputs? could you not use some ADC09:24
eintopfwith one input09:24
DocScrutinizer05well, that would be possible in theory but *highly* unlikely with a PLL tuner09:25
DocScrutinizer05the smaller and simpler the chip, the more basic the interface and the higher the percentage of digital circuitry inside09:26
eintopfI thought some potentiometer connected to some pin to setting the freq09:28
eintopfthat's what I think how it's realized when I tune my channel on the radio09:28
DocScrutinizer05analog tuning the way you suggest is both highly difficult to find the right potentiometer for that actually allows tuning to a station and stay there, and the chip needs pretty high accuracy A/D too09:28
DocScrutinizer05how many turns has your dial for station setting on your radio? 0.75? for sure not09:29
eintopfI have some digital radio tuner like the above one inside my mp3 player09:30
DocScrutinizer05with a normal 270° potetiometer for tuning? That must be real fun to adjust it to a station09:31
eintopfI can press buttons and it writes some registers09:31
eintopfinside the radio chip I suggest09:31
eintopf0.1 Mhz 09:32
eintopfis the space09:32
eintopfI don't like the transceiver, always makes a noise when switching frequency09:32
DocScrutinizer05well, I guess it uses an external serial flashrom09:32
eintopfI think it's software related09:32
DocScrutinizer05it's really difficult to build flash and RF circuits on same die09:33
DocScrutinizer05most likely even completely different technologies are used for flash and for RF mixing and amplification and filtering etc09:34
eintopfDocScrutinizer05: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SandiskE200HardwareComponents#FM_Chip09:34
eintopfit's this09:34
eintopfaudio components are always critical... I remember some old mainboard with on-board audio09:36
eintopfdid some noise, when transfer data over ethernet etc09:36
eintopfI think you can all deal with that09:36
eintopfbut then you need to really know what you doing09:36
DocScrutinizer05eintopf: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/04/13/plasma-desktopzj2219.png  increment encoder usinf two coils and prolly a turning magnet or the like09:45
DocScrutinizer05hmm no, not sure about that09:50
DocScrutinizer05in fact the whole LV2400x series is with digital interface to a controller MCU only09:52
DocScrutinizer05oops 24020 nicht 2400209:57
DocScrutinizer05fuer 24020 gibt's wohl kein datasheet10:04
eintopfnaja, ist ja auch nicht so wichtig10:24
eintopfradio ist gut wenn der weltuntergang losgeht10:24
roheintopf: sag bescheid, ich hab noch ein studio-mischpult aus den 80ern dazu ;)13:25
whitequarkDocScrutinizer51: you could make a multi die assembly15:18
whitequarkbut I guess that increases cost too muc15:18
DocScrutinizer05yep, aware of this and the cost it incurs15:19
DocScrutinizer05not very practicable for those lower-end pricerange chips15:20
whitequarkI wonder why they never do it for large CPUs15:20
whitequarkfor first-level caches15:20
DocScrutinizer05err they do?15:20
whitequarkI know that SPARCs use eDRAM for L415:20
whitequarkand I think L3?15:20
DocScrutinizer051st-level cache in flash?15:20
whitequarksince you have the same problem with logic and SRAM15:20
DocScrutinizer05aah yep15:20
whitequarksorry I am being unclear, SRAM is expensive and DRAM is incompatible with logic15:21
whitequarkso you could put logic on one die and eDRAM for L1/L2/L3 on an immediately adjacent one15:21
whitequarkmaybe even stack them!15:21
whitequarkadd an interposer and some TSVs to connect15:21
DocScrutinizer05I seem to have seen similar composites15:21
whitequarkI'm sure this raises the cost substantially but with xeons of $1k upwards it can easily be profitable15:22
DocScrutinizer05well, SRAM is very fast15:22
DocScrutinizer05easy timing, low energy consumption15:24
DocScrutinizer05hmm the latter depends15:24
DocScrutinizer05about time to have some fun with Otto-engine tuning ;-)15:31
whitequarkDocScrutinizer51: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Bandwidth_Memory15:36
whitequarkalready happens apparently15:36
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