#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2015-05-06

--- Wed May 6 201500:00
iamartohello everyone13:36
iamartoI have a tricky question13:36
iamartoI've always trusted Intel HD graphics chips on laptops13:37
iamartobecause they don't heat up13:37
iamartomy 7 year old sony vaio works like new 13:37
iamartonever had problems with it13:37
iamartobecause obviously Intel HD graphics chipsets require no fans on board13:37
iamartohowever, in 2015.. I was wondering, did Nvidia or ATI did anything new in new laptops13:37
iamartoto avoid heating up?13:38
iamartoOr should I stick with Intel HD 5500?13:38
pcercueinot really the best channel to ask that13:38
pcercuei"hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects"13:38
iamartoit's related to hardware?13:38
pcercueiopen hardware13:39
eintopfin my opinion, if you are no a real hardcore gamer then intel is enough. They have good power management and nice mainline linux support13:39
eintopfso intel is more open than nvidia :/13:39
eintopfati mainline support is also well, but not so well like intel. They do more than nvidia13:40
eintopfnvidia do nothing13:40
iamartoI am not a hardcore gamer but I often like to play BF413:40
eintopfthen you are a windows user?13:40
iamartoI heard that HD 4400 plays BF4 but I will get the superior 5500 perhaps13:40
iamartodo more than nvidia in terms of what?13:41
iamartome? I use both windows and Lubuntu13:42
iamartowith i3wm13:42
eintopfnvidia is good in opengl13:43
eintopfand opengl is what the name says open13:43
eintopfbut I think BF4 (battlefield 4) is direct x13:43
eintopfclosed things from m$13:43
eintopfonly good for gaming...13:44
iamartoi dont want to enter into this debate but obviously windows is the better gaming platform in all OSs.13:44
eintopfthe complete windows os is just there to playing games, I believe :)13:44
eintopfyes, and I agree with that13:44
eintopfbut what are games? Games are there for consuming13:45
iamartoSo the conclusion that Nvidia and ATI didn't fix their heating chips on laptops13:45
iamartoor they don't have chips without fans..13:45
eintopfI think they do something, but performance is always related to do heating13:46
iamartowhen I try to ask questions on ##hardware channel it says can't send to channel13:47
eintopfSorry I don't know :( My notebook has an intel graphic and contains only one fan13:47
eintopfI think for both, cpu and graphic, over some heating pipes13:47
iamartowhat about the APUs? Any Good?13:47
eintopfto talk about open hardware and graphicscards -> that doesn't exist13:47
eintopfthere are no really open hardware accelerator which you can buy13:47
whitequarkiamarto: you need to register with nickserv to talk on ##hardware13:48
whitequark /msg nickserv help13:48
eintopfeach of them selling graphics cards with binary blobs13:48
eintopfI would ask in #drm (if this channel exists) maybe somebody can give you a buying guide which fits your use case13:49
ysionneauopengl does not mean that anything is open beside the API13:59
ysionneauyou can have completely closed source opengl implementations13:59
ysionneauand the windows opengl implementations for ATI/Nvidia are not open source AFAIK14:00
whitequarkof course not14:01
eintopfmhh, opengl describes an interface only. The manufactures need to implement them in some way into their hardware. But whats part of opengl that decides some open community (don't know the name now)14:06
eintopfkhronos group14:06
eintopfbut they have also some interface "vendor specific"14:07
eintopfI think the vendor specific things are only there because it's hard for companies to getting something "fast" into the opengl standard14:07
eintopfthen they introduce they own fancy stuff into a vendor specifc call at first14:08
eintopfbut general that means, there is a open flow to bringing things into opengl14:09
ysionneaunot sure it's *that* open14:18
ysionneaubig companies are part of the khronos group14:18
ysionneaucould I be part of it? Can I be part of the discussions?14:18
ysionneauAre discussions on a public mailing list?14:18
ysionneauI'm not sure at all :)14:18
eintopfI think "yes", but you need money _maybe_14:22
eintopffor mailinglist not, but to visit conferences and I think you need to pay money to be part of this group14:25
ysionneauthat's very open :)14:32
ysionneauthat excludes all poor people, which is a big big part of the planet14:33
eintopfI don't think so, if you visit websites and learning about opengl on mailinglist and making good reviews of upcomming stuff14:33
eintopfthen nvidia want U!14:33
ysionneauthat is nonsense to me :/14:34
eintopfI can see that everywhere in opensource things, some great guy/girl doing nice programming -> big companies wants them -> he/she doing closed stuff but can feed his/her family14:38
eintopfI think that's one reason why google summer of code exists :)14:39
pcercueiand then, there are some who do open-source stuff and still feed their family :)14:41
ysionneauand then you have people who work for big financial companies who feed their family and destroy others and make sure inegalities are growing :)14:42
ysionneaubug I guess we are moving away from "opengl not very open" topic :p14:42
ysionneauIt's just a group of powerful companies that have to agree about such things for interoperability purpose14:43
eintopfit's not companies14:48
eintopfas well universities14:48
eintopfs/not/not just/14:48
eintopfstudents, hobby opengl fpga hackers14:48
eintopfoh, a own fpga graphic card architecture... like openrisc14:49
eintopfs/a own/an pwn/14:50
eintopfgrml, an own14:50
ysionneauto become a contributor to Khronos group you have to pay $15,000 per year14:50
ysionneauI don't call this open14:50
eintopfthen you are member only14:51
eintopfwhat they people communicate it's not closed14:51
ysionneaubut you don't get to vote :p14:51
ysionneauthis just has nothing to do with any openness14:52
ysionneauit's just business14:52
wpwrakbut it's open and non-discriminatory. any white upper-class christian is welcome :)14:53
ysionneauit's non-discriminatory to anyone who can pay $15,000 :D14:53
ysionneau(per year)14:53
ysionneauthat just rules out 99% of the planet14:53
ysionneau+ some 9s14:53
eintopfwhen you like to build a direct x graphic card, then you need to ask microsoft to get more details about their direct x stuff, that's different in opengl14:54
whitequarkactually, no14:54
eintopfand then you _must_ pay microsoft because you using their direct x14:54
whitequarkalso no14:54
whitequarkmesa implements directx14:54
whitequark(and the devs say it was easier than implementing opengl)14:55
eintopfI can believe that the direct x API is open, because you need as dev the api how to use it14:56
eintopfwhitequark: also wine use direct x directly? I believed before that they use some opengl <-> direct x mapping14:57
whitequarkwine does not14:57
pcercueithere is a branch that does14:57
whitequarkit won't be useful very often because nvidia does not use mesa14:57
eintopfa yes, I know the question always from my packet-manager to decide which mesa-lib should be used (or something like that)14:58
eintopfs/a yes/ah yes/14:58
--- Thu May 7 201500:00

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