#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2015-03-01

wpwrakkyak: (3rd side) oh, there's no shortage of sides :) 00:51
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: hahahahaha19:02
whitequarkhttp://web.ead.anl.gov/uranium/pdf/wm01semicond.pdf19:02
whitequarkyou'll love this19:02
whitequarkVLSI ICs made out of depleted uranium oxide as an intrinsic semiconductor19:03
whitequark" The energy band gap (forbidden band gap) for uranium dioxide (UO2) lies between Si and19:03
whitequarkGaAs at the optimum of the band gap vs efficiency curve (1), indicating that one should be able to use19:03
whitequarkuranium oxides to make very efficient solar cells, semiconductors, or other electronic device. "19:03
whitequarkapparently US DoE has a funding programme whose sole goal is to figure out where the fuck to put all the depleted uranium they have19:04
whitequarkother things it produced: using it as a catalyst for ammonia synthesis; using it as a catalytic converter to decompose pollutants such as dioxins19:05
DocScrutinizer05I thought they already found a 'good' use for it: ammunition, heavier than Tungsten22:06
whitequarkthey did, also in aircraft22:07
DocScrutinizer05wasn't that waht they used all the time in Iraq war, to crack the tanks?22:07
whitequarkthose gyroscopes use tungsten balls or alternatively DU22:07
whitequarkthey did use it in iraq22:08
whitequarkgiven that uranium is a heavy metal more toxic than lead... that was a real shitty idea22:08
DocScrutinizer05yeah22:08
whitequarkactually that semiconductor idea kind of grew on me22:09
DocScrutinizer05anyway usage of really nasty metal oxides isn't new in electronics. I can't recall if it was beryllium-oxide or whatever that caused the "use hepa masks while mounting this power RF transistor"22:09
whitequarklooks you could do very interesting things with it. it's a very high k22:09
whitequark20 instead 10 for silicon22:09
DocScrutinizer05whatever is "k"22:10
whitequarkwhich means you can make even smaller transistors. currently they use some hafnium oxide22:10
whitequarkmore like :22:10
whitequarkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-%CE%BA_dielectric22:10
DocScrutinizer05I'm baffled by the "2000some kelvin" tolerance22:10
DocScrutinizer05that's *awesome*22:10
whitequarkyes, very refractory22:11
DocScrutinizer05however that's most likely not taking into account any dotation22:11
whitequarkmolybdenum crucibles have near characteristics22:11
whitequarkand are currently used for growing sapphires22:11
DocScrutinizer05a semiconductor component not crapping out on >300°C, that for sure would be a damn useful thing22:12
whitequarkre beryllium, yes, nasty stuff22:12
whitequarkchronic incurable lung disease22:12
whitequarkand enough to inhale it one time22:12
whitequark"The onset of symptoms can range from weeks up to tens of years from the initial exposure. In some individuals a single exposure can cause berylliosis.22:12
whitequarkthat's just downright evil22:13
whitequarkregarding not crapping out on 300°C, that only takes into account refractory properties of the ceramic. silica is quite refractory itself22:13
DocScrutinizer05yes, and they made power transistors with a complete mounting plate made of beryllium oxide ceramic22:14
whitequarkand in fact they did make ICs that can work at 600°C from silicon22:14
whitequarkyeah. and they also used to put those into microwave oven magnetrons22:14
whitequarkconsumer22:14
DocScrutinizer05fools22:15
whitequarkhaha this page http://www.americanberyllia.com/safety.html22:15
DocScrutinizer05when I was a young ignorant idiot I played with mercury. I reconsidered my approach to severely dangerous metals when I was 18 though22:16
DocScrutinizer05not only mercury, also uranium oxide22:16
DocScrutinizer05I had access to some "funny" substances back when22:17
whitequarkmercury is overrated on danger scale I think. very low vapor pressure22:17
DocScrutinizer05yes22:17
whitequarkstill probably a good idea to not touch it if you can22:17
whitequarkbut there's some really inane paranoia around it22:17
whitequarkit's not gonna kill you in a minute22:17
wpwrakmercifully, he changed his opinion on dangerous metals before could finish developing the bomb and get his personal seat in the UN security council22:18
DocScrutinizer05for sure not, But it's quite silly to spill the stuff in your sleeping room22:18
whitequark... someone told me about a video from a russian mercury plant22:18
whitequarkthe plant director was quite fond of mercury, for example he went and put his arm into a tank full of it22:18
wpwrakwhitequark: do they take a vodka and then jump into the pools ? :)22:18
wpwrakhah, good enough22:18
whitequarkand about another lab which processed mercury amalgams22:19
whitequarkthey had tilted floor and a sink22:19
whitequarkfor all the spilled mercury22:19
DocScrutinizer05I guess jumping into a pool of mercury really hurts badly22:19
wpwraksafety tip: only use dimethylmercury and wear gloves !22:19
whitequarklol22:19
whitequarkdespite all that stuff which would give OSHA an aneurysm, they'll only gain long-term neural damage in a decade or two. *shrug*22:20
whitequarkmad hatters22:20
DocScrutinizer05well, what really scares shit outa me is methyl mercury in vaccines, as conservation agent22:20
whitequarkphased out despite no evidence for toxicity22:21
whitequarkif you're talking about thiomersal22:21
DocScrutinizer05yeah22:21
DocScrutinizer05used in flu vaccines onle a few years ago22:21
DocScrutinizer05no evidence for toxicity??22:22
DocScrutinizer05duh!22:22
wpwraksometimes, it may just be better to err on the safe side22:24
DocScrutinizer05http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal22:24
DocScrutinizer05it's not used in vacciens for children under age of 6 22:25
DocScrutinizer05I'm not generally scared of mercury, I'd dip my hand into a pool of it any time. But I won't ever swallow or inject stuff that contains mercury22:28
DocScrutinizer05not even homeopathic stuff22:29
DocScrutinizer05but uranium oxide chips, dang that could fly22:35
DocScrutinizer05:-)22:35
DocScrutinizer05I just wonder if they need immanent radiation hardening ;-)22:35
DocScrutinizer05ooh "airplanes", now I get it. >>Weiterhin wird abgereichertes Uran für Ausgleichsgewichte im Flugzeugbau verwendet<<22:38
DocScrutinizer05>>Zur Vermeidung von Kontaminationen und Strahlenbelastung wird das Uran in Gehäuse aus Stahlblech oder Aluminium eingeschweißt.<<22:38
DocScrutinizer05rreally funny read: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abgereichertes_Uran22:39
DocScrutinizer05anyway uranium chips will not suffer from deterioration as I wondered: a half life time of 4,468 · 10^9 years22:45
whitequarkyep, and that's not even depleted22:47
whitequarkif i recognize the numbers correctly22:47
DocScrutinizer05for chips they plan to deliver to the Russians they could use U237: t1/2 of 6,75 d  ;-P22:47
DocScrutinizer054,468 · 10^9 years is for U23822:48
whitequarkoh22:48
whitequarkanyway they say that UO2 is good for rad-hard chips22:48
whitequarkregardless of its own activity22:48
whitequarkso i guess it will at least cancel out22:48
whitequarkit's ironic isn't it22:48
DocScrutinizer05yeah22:49
whitequarkoh, you mention using DU as a /ballast/ in airplanes22:52
whitequarkwhat i mean is using it in /gyroscopes/22:53
whitequarkhaven't heard of ballast22:53
whitequarkthat sounds like a shitton of DU22:53
DocScrutinizer05those airplane engineers must be completely nuts. Tungsten has 0.14 *higher* specific weight than uarnium22:54
whitequarkI may be mixing something up22:54
whitequarkbut I'm fairly sure I heard of it22:55
DocScrutinizer05tungsten: 19,3 g/cm3 ;  uranium: 19,16 g/cm322:55
whitequarkhmm22:56
whitequarkno, I'm not mixing stuff up22:56
whitequarkhttps://books.google.ru/books?id=qJArAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=depleted+uranium+gyroscope&source=bl&ots=y1JL0HzxK9&sig=2gpWM-hHBbBK7x5huyvm68HxHPI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FZnzVJGbEoaaygPNjYLgCg&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=depleted%20uranium%20gyroscope&f=false22:56
whitequarkmaybe it's very hard to machine tungsten into a ball?22:56
DocScrutinizer05prolly uranium is way easier on casting22:57
DocScrutinizer05yes, exactly22:57
whitequark"Depleted uranium is preferred over similarly dense metals due to its ability to be easily machined and cast as well as its relatively low cost."22:57
whitequarkyeep22:57
DocScrutinizer05idiots22:57
whitequarkI dunno, tungsten is toxic as well22:58
DocScrutinizer05for airplane ballast you wouldn't even need to machine the tungsten into any particular shape. fine dust will do22:59
whitequarkand /burning/ tungsten is especially bad22:59
DocScrutinizer05>>Nach dem derzeitigen Wissensstand gelten Wolfram und seine Verbindungen als physiologisch unbedenklich<<23:00
whitequarkenwiki says this: Tungsten interferes with molybdenum and copper metabolism and is somewhat toxic to animal life.23:00
whitequarkand I've been told to avoid white smoke from TIG welding electrodes23:00
whitequarkwhich is WO423:01
DocScrutinizer05I *think* they even used tungsten in antacidic medicine, to kill heliobakter or whatever23:01
whitequarkwell, it just needs to outweigh the costs23:02
whitequarkand a stomach ulcer is pretty damn bad23:02
DocScrutinizer05in lungs WO4 prolly isn't healthy23:02
DocScrutinizer05oops no that been bismut I guess23:03
DocScrutinizer05... in antacida23:04
whitequarkohhhh yes23:04
whitequarkbismuth is completely inert23:04
whitequarkpepto-bismol23:04
DocScrutinizer05sorry23:04
whitequarkthere's a ton of that metal in the pills23:04
whitequarkin fact so much that you can extract a sizable metal slug out of some crushed pills23:04
whitequarkreduce it with e.g. aluminium in basic solution23:05
whitequarkhttp://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2012-07/gray-matter-extracting-bismuth-pepto-bismol-tablets23:05
whitequark180 pills = 24g of metal23:05
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: regarding drugs, we have something for treating trypanosomiasis23:06
whitequarkcalled melarsoprol23:06
whitequarkit's literally poisoning yourself with arsenic voluntarily and hoping that the parasite dies earlier than you23:07
whitequark"Among clinicians, it is colloquially referred to as "arsenic in antifreeze"."23:08
whitequarkand you put that into your veins23:08
DocScrutinizer05ugh23:09
DocScrutinizer05friggin parasites23:10
whitequarknow the fun part, the parasite actually developed resistance to it23:10
DocScrutinizer05meh23:13
DocScrutinizer05friggin parasites23:13
DocScrutinizer05>>Inzwischen ist es Forschern gelungen, einen preiswerten Wirkstoff zu entwickeln, der keine Nebenwirkungen zeigt. Allerdings wurde dieser bisher nur an Mäusen getestet.<<23:13
DocScrutinizer05http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/meldung-forschung-aktuell.678.de.html?drn:news_id=8685623:13
DocScrutinizer05seems it didn't pan out, eh? 201023:14
whitequarkwhy? clinical testing takes decades23:14
DocScrutinizer05err yes, that too23:14
whitequarki don't think you can go from mice to retail in just 5 years23:15
whitequarkten is more like it, especially if the drug is 'good'23:15
DocScrutinizer05but I'd expect to hear more recent news23:15
whitequarkyou could try to hunt down the uni or pharma website, they sometimes post info about clinical trials23:15
whitequarkactually there should be a database of those, somewhere23:15
whitequarkwait. "Thursday, April 1, 2010"23:16
DocScrutinizer05:-S23:16
DocScrutinizer05pathetic, if ...23:16
whitequarkthat would be really cruel23:16
whitequarkoh, no23:17
whitequarkhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2036073623:17
whitequarkreally on april 123:17
whitequarkalso works on leishmania, cool23:18
DocScrutinizer05http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2512508023:19
whitequarkyes23:20
whitequarkmore interesting is this: http://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.000162523:20
whitequark2012, still "pre-clinically23:20
whitequarkwhich means I guess that 2010 study did not get even to phase I23:20
DocScrutinizer05afk, TV calling ;-)23:22
DocScrutinizer05((expect to hear more recent news)) actually I did, somebody using some plant or fungus (extract?) to treat malaria23:32
DocScrutinizer05supposed to yield great potential for a cheap and low-risk malaria treatment for the masses23:33
DocScrutinizer05I think I heard of it in a NANO report some 6 to 12 months ago23:33
DocScrutinizer05might be related23:33
DocScrutinizer05of course that stuff was very early TCM-style medicine23:34
DocScrutinizer05the report didn't claim it works, only that it might have potential23:35
DocScrutinizer05iirc23:36
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