#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2015-02-12

--- Thu Feb 12 201500:00
wpwrakoh, the siren's call ... https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/voltera/voltera-your-circuit-board-prototyping-machine13:55
wpwrakresolution is one step too coarse to be really useful, though13:56
eintopfthat's what I need instead dealing with chemicals and aquariums14:51
wpwraki guess that could be feasible: 2 layers on one side, then flip and do 2 layers on the other side. well, maybe you need to update the chemistry a little, but i'd think that it can't be too far from working15:07
wpwrakeintopf: and nobody needs an aquarium :) just a flat-bottomed glass container will do nicely for etching15:08
eintopfat my university they have some aquarium stuff15:10
eintopfor they had15:10
eintopfnow they have a new machine15:10
eintopfmilling machine15:10
xiangfuwpwrak: Hi15:10
xiangfuwe made 10 Anelok board.15:10
xiangfuhaven't make it boot to UI.15:11
wpwrak(10 board) kewl !15:11
eintopfcool :-)15:11
wpwrak(no UI) not so cool ... were you able to fix the reversed connectors ?15:12
xiangfu5 of them was the correct one.15:13
wpwraknice :)15:13
wpwrakand DFU works on these ?15:13
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: (Voltera) we (neo900) can learn a lot from how the KS is done, at large15:13
xiangfu5 of them was have this reversed issue. but I use them without any problem by using reversed USB cable. :-) that is easy compare to soldering the connector.15:13
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: yeah, make videos, videos, videos :)15:14
DocScrutinizer05that too15:14
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: but if you want to learn from a true master, try wemagin (on kickstarter)15:14
wpwrak(reversed cable) just don't confuse the cables :)15:15
DocScrutinizer05i'm also trying to learn on how they pulled off (and still (plan to) do) the whole project. Buzzword "move to Shenzen" for example15:15
wpwrakxiangfu: btw, for desoldering tricky parts, this works really great: http://www.chipquik.com/15:16
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: i wonder how they did the initial financing. lots of development, relocation, and such, that's not cheap15:16
DocScrutinizer05that's obsolutely non-visible15:17
DocScrutinizer05and the gial of 70k USD also seems pathetic15:17
wpwrakoh, some projects go to KS only because they want the PR15:18
DocScrutinizer05xiangfu: would you happen to know companies who can do semi-complex steel mech parts in "low" (1000) quantities?15:18
xiangfuwpwrak: it stop at here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/anelok/tmp/Anelok-booting.jpg15:18
wpwrakalso, a very high goal may look scary. so they may set it as low as they can, but hope to get a lot more15:18
DocScrutinizer05yeah, and that's exactly the sort of stuff I try to learn15:19
wpwrakxiangfu: oh, but that looks great ! are you sure it doesn't work ? :)15:19
wpwrakmaybe you need to tune the sensor a bit. after all, you don't have a case, so the threshold is way too low15:20
xiangfuwpwrak: (chipquik) Yes. right now we have a lab. we have all those tools.15:20
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: what do you mean on 'semi-complex '?15:21
DocScrutinizer05moment please15:21
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: another one: don't set a very long campaign duration. seems that projects that chose > 1 months are less likely to get funded than those that pick 1 month15:21
xiangfuwpwrak: (sensor) Yes. I also think this is my problem. because the cursor of the sensor seems not works well.15:22
DocScrutinizer05xiangfu: http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/sliding-unit-assembly/n900.html15:22
wpwrakxiangfu: the parameters are set with the expectation that there are about 1-1.5 mm of plastic and adhesive between sensor and finger15:22
wpwrakso you'd have to "hover" over the sensor to trigger it correctly. pretty difficult to get this right :)15:23
wpwrakyou can try to put a ~ 1 mm sheet of plastic on the sensor. that should help a lot.15:23
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: ok. I think it can be done in low quantities. I just worry about the desing file format in china. I need ask around first.15:24
wpwrakor you can try tuning the threshold. DEVCFG is your friend :)15:24
DocScrutinizer05yigreat! many thanks! :-)15:25
xiangfuwpwrak: thanks. I will try that tomorrow.15:25
DocScrutinizer05xiangfu: great! many thanks! :-)15:26
wpwrakbut it looks great. you're well past the difficult phase now15:26
DocScrutinizer05xiangfu: still trying to find a better photo15:26
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: please let me. that is the design file you are using? or we just copy from this N900?15:26
DocScrutinizer05just copy. I can provide originals15:27
xiangfusorry. I mean "please tell me that is the design file format/design software for this part"15:27
DocScrutinizer05maybe that stuff already is available even15:27
xiangfu(just copy) ok.15:27
xiangfuwe just copy this N900?15:28
DocScrutinizer05this particular part yes15:28
wpwrakalas, we don't have design files. but we have 3D scans that may be useful to get started: http://neo900.org/stuff/werner/scans/15:28
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.abxSfI&id=13560310048&ns=1&abbucket=4#detail :D15:29
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: I don't know if he have 1000 of them. but we can buy some first. 15:29
DocScrutinizer05xiangfu: YES! exactly !! :-))15:29
wpwrakand here is a little mesh viewer for the STL files, with a half-decent measurement function: http://neo900.org/git/?p=misc;a=tree;f=meme;hb=HEAD15:30
DocScrutinizer05xiangfu: please see how many you can order for us. Many thanks in advance :-)15:30
xiangfuhmm... 23:29. so. they are not online right now. I will ask them tomorrow. see how many they have.15:30
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: Yes. sure.15:30
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: nope.15:30
wpwrak(¥ part) yeah ! :)15:31
DocScrutinizer05we might not need a 1000 if we can get less. Maybe we get away with a 400 or sth. any amount is better than no part at all15:31
wpwrak"original skateboard" :)15:31
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: on the webpage. it says they have 96 of them. but it may not sure. 15:32
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's very usual15:33
xiangfuwpwrak: :)15:33
DocScrutinizer05there are very low quantities available at several places - maybe15:33
xiangfu(http://neo900.org/stuff/werner/scans/) nice documents.15:34
DocScrutinizer05http://privatepaste.com/fbb7bbc011  ohmy, what to answer to this?15:36
wpwraknothing, for now :)15:36
DocScrutinizer05did this guy subscribe to newsletter? Or what?15:36
wpwrakah, could be that he's receiving something.15:37
DocScrutinizer05xiangfu: Neo900 project needs a few more rare parts too. Like e.g. the resistive touchscreen aka digitizer. When you happen to run into offers for other N900 spare parts stuff than just the slider mech, please at least drop a note, we might need it15:38
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: ok.15:39
DocScrutinizer05thanks! :-)15:39
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: Yes. just quick search the touchscreen. that is easy to buy from thise semi-complex board (original skateboard :)15:41
xiangfus/from thise /compare to this/15:41
DocScrutinizer05for a hint: http://originalspareparts.com.ua/phones/nokia/n900#c   we need basically all except the electronics/PCB part15:42
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: maybe we just buy the real phone then remove this PCB. 15:43
xiangfuthe whole phone. sorry. (I should goto sleep :( )15:44
DocScrutinizer05if this is possible then yes. I didn't find any sources for original phones in quantities15:44
xiangfuthe touch screen is expensive them the whole phone in taobao.com 15:44
DocScrutinizer05we can buy single unit for ~100USD15:44
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: I believe we can buy hundred15:45
DocScrutinizer05but we can't find sources for 10 units15:45
DocScrutinizer05hundred would be a great start but we need more, so if we can't get more, we already want to use alternatives from start, like manufacturing the parts15:45
DocScrutinizer05we calculate with a batch of 500 to 100015:46
xiangfubecause old electric devices all goes to China. :D15:46
xiangfuI believe all used Server PSU was in China. :)15:46
DocScrutinizer05when we can buy a 500 phones, I'd be more than happy15:46
xiangfuok. I will let you know tomorrow. that is each to find out. 500.15:47
DocScrutinizer05mayn thanks, and don't hurry15:47
xiangfuit is all used phone. just quick search15:48
DocScrutinizer05as long as very good condition, used phones are OK15:49
DocScrutinizer05we don't expect to find large batches of unused new ones anyway15:49
DocScrutinizer05many N900 phones are refurbished15:50
DocScrutinizer05so all the parts we are interested in might actually be new15:50
xiangfurecently I know how they buy old/used devices. it is sell by 'container'. when the ship arrived. they open the container. then named the price. 15:50
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: (N900) Yes. 15:52
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: I can buy 5 for 10 N900 first. the Chinese New Year comes in 7 days. so all China will stop.15:52
DocScrutinizer05there are several sources of parts for N900 in Hong Kong and mainland China, but the quality and actual quantity available is usually questionable and hard to evaluate when I sit here in Europe, You being closer to those sources and speaking their langiuage is our best chance to pull this off15:52
xiangfumaybe I can goto Shenzhen after Chinese new year. then we can easy to find out if the device was in good condition and if they have 500 or such.15:53
DocScrutinizer05aah yes, chinese new year. I know it :-D15:53
DocScrutinizer05sounds like an excellent plan 15:53
xiangfu18 Feb.15:54
DocScrutinizer05xiangfu: please consider this a honest order from Neo900 UG15:54
DocScrutinizer05eventually you invoice us15:54
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: ok.15:54
DocScrutinizer05your help is much appreciated15:54
xiangfu(http://originalspareparts.com.ua/phones/nokia/n900#c) that is a lot of parts. :)15:54
DocScrutinizer05yes, indeed15:55
DocScrutinizer05the "case parts" come in a plethora of colors for ~15USD, even with keymat15:55
DocScrutinizer05this is ~80% of those many parts15:56
DocScrutinizer05xiangfu: beware, there's also a Nikia N900 *LUMIA* device which is a different product16:00
xiangfuwith Windows inside. 16:01
DocScrutinizer05yes, with crappy windows inside ;-)16:02
xiangfuDocScrutinizer05: Yes. 16:04
xiangfuhve to sleep.16:05
xiangfusee you.16:05
DocScrutinizer05lol, fun fact: superhet tuned to FM 94.3MHz creates a GPS interference20:28
eintopfi don't understand :)20:35
DocScrutinizer05~1575.42 / (94.3 + 10.7)20:51
DocScrutinizer05so 15th harmonic of LO will interfere with GPS L120:52
DocScrutinizer05given the superhet uses high side injection (LO > RF)20:53
DocScrutinizer05just seen a car radio tuned to 94.3MHz making GPS navi fail20:55
DocScrutinizer05you might wonder how a Local Oscillator supposed to generate a sine wave can produce a 15th harmonic, but keep in mind that the LO feeds its signal into a non-linear mixer to create beat frequency with the RF to receive. This mixer will also create non-linear distrotion to the LO signal itself21:02
--- Fri Feb 13 201500:00

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