#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2014-09-30

mthsolrize: afaik they haven't been produced in a while, but I don't know if there are any stocks left00:12
wpwraksolrize: i'd suggest to ask on the mailing list. also, if 2nd hand would be an option for you, you may want to indicate that. the list: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion00:14
solrizemth thanks  i looked around a little and they seem scarce, and the last ones retailed were quite expensive.  00:14
solrizewpwrak, hmm thanks00:14
solrizeyeah 2nd hand would be ok, at the moment i'm feeling kind of poor and don't want to pay a lot, but when i get some more $$ then it will be less of an issue00:14
wpwrakheh, poverty may work in your favour in this case :) there ought to be some people who bought bens who never got around to using them, or who didn't see them fit for whatever they had in mind doing with them00:29
whitequarkI'd send one over if international transactions weren't such a pain in the ass00:30
solrizewpwrak, yeah, it sounds like some people might have dusty ones, but they probably have good resale value.  i don't see any on ebay right now00:31
solrizeif i got one i don't know if i'd really use it.  but i got the computer i really wanted (nokia n900) and just feel suspicious of it so i don't do anything with it either.00:31
wpwraksolrize: the number of units out there may just be too small for many to make them to ebay. if you ask on the list, i think your chances are much better.01:13
wpwrak(n900) suspicious ? sounds as if you may be interested in a neo900 ;-)01:14
solrizewpwrak, yeah, i might check there if my desire becomes strong enough.  neo900, hmm, that will be nice when it happens :)01:15
solrizethe hw is still too complicated though01:15
wpwraktoo complicated in what sense ?01:17
solrizevery fancy cpu with lots of inscrutable modes, baseband radio processor with its own opaque software that has direct access to the n900's main memory, built in wireless communications that can leak info, etc.  01:22
wpwrakwhat ? no, that modem has no direct access to main memory at all01:37
wpwrakin fact, the whole critter it built with unreasonable amounts of paranoia. but then, today's unreasonable may be tomorrow's normal, cf. perceptions before and after snowden01:38
wpwrakhere's a block diagram that shows how the device is structured: http://neo900.org/stuff/neo900-block-diagram.pdf01:39
wpwrakslightly more up to date version (but with some loose ends, e.g., the NFC that got added here will probably change): http://neo900.org/stuff/werner/web/gta04b7v2-wip-2014092209.pdf01:40
wpwrakkewl. a 3rd wave of icloud pictures is making the rounds. some lesson on why you still have to use your brain, even if you bought some shiny gadget from apple.01:51
eintopfhttp://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2014/09/29/1706:20
kyaklol06:24
kyakreally, most security issues expose themselves by accident06:25
kyaksomeone was bored06:25
larscor had enough time and money08:59
wpwraksounds like cat + keyboard :)11:17
nicksydneywpwrak: http://embien.com/blog/bluetooth-stack-frdm-kl25z-kit-demo/11:41
kyakwpwrak: that would be a new approach to test applications depending on user input. Unleash them cats! Many cats!11:48
kyaki bet 1 cat, given enough time, would've found that bash bug :)11:49
wpwraknicksydney: a USB dongle ! ;-)))11:51
nicksydneywpwrak: it's cool now can use USB dongle :)11:52
wpwrakkyak: maybe i should cover anelok in synthetic fur, add pointy ears, and make it purr. might sell like crazy ;-)12:01
wpwrakanelok lolcats edition :)12:02
kyak--)12:33
whitequarkwpwrak: you bet it will12:35
whitequarkkyak: cat fuzzing?12:36
wpwrakreturn -ETOOCUTE;13:12
eintopfso anelok will support to operate as USB HID to produce the gnome lock screen bug?13:30
eintopfI would pay for it :-)13:30
sb0yay, another "open hardware" $12 ARM gadget, stealing more oxygen from any oshw serious project16:18
sb0fuck mozilla16:18
wpwraksb0: did ARM now become the enemy, with arduino maturing from AVR ? :)16:20
wpwrakand what have mozilla done ?16:21
sb0matchstick.tv16:23
sb0"You may not decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of any software or software components of the Matchstick software including the Matchstick SDK software."16:24
sb0hahaha16:24
wpwrakso much about "certified by Mozilla" :)16:25
sb0"We take open seriously and the only way hardware can be truly open is removing any barriers to development AND manufacturing"16:25
sb0how about they remove the barriers created by investing shittons of venture capital that allows them to sell this for $12?16:25
wpwrakwell, we're kinda used to getting underbidded. i guess we just have to live with that.16:27
ysionneauwhere did you get the "you may not decompile [..]" sentence from?16:30
sb0http://www.matchstick.tv/developers/documents/sdk-apply-check.html16:30
larscit seems opensoftware means there is a documented API16:30
ysionneauand I think Mozilla has nothing to do with this maybe except checking a bit if they were doing nasty things like giving access to user data and breaking the sandboxes and just gave the "certified" bit16:30
ysionneauwow, you actually read the "small lines"16:31
ysionneauindeed that's stupid to call yourself an open source sw and hw project16:32
ysionneauand then put this kind of lines16:32
sb0https://gigaom.com/2014/06/20/this-firefox-os-powered-streaming-stick-is-mozillas-answer-to-chromecast-exclusive-video/16:33
sb0FWIW... (gigaom people also measure battery capacities in watts)16:34
ysionneauabout matchstick, they are playing with the word "open sw & hw" but it's not actually open source, right?16:35
ysionneauit's just basd on fx os which is open source but I guess they don't allow to recompile the FW of the matchstick16:36
sb0they look like the usual bullshit VC-backed users-as-the-product startup that uses kickstarter for PR and openwashing to attract developers, yes16:37
ysionneauthat's so shitty16:37
ysionneauI think either Mozilla is getting bullshited because they are too naive16:38
ysionneauor they are really turning their back on their values16:38
dos1it's basically the same with phones17:22
dos1firefox os on phones is just android-bis17:22
dos1you can find some pretty open devices, but they're rarity17:22
DocScrutinizer05((baseband radio processor with its own opaque software that has direct access to the n900's main memory)) Nope, enither N900 nor Neo900 the modem has access to main memory, unlike 99.5% of more contemporary smartphones18:22
DocScrutinizer05incl Jolla18:23
DocScrutinizer05and blackphone, BWAHAAAHAAA18:23
abodywithkeyboarblackphone pa! more like govphone18:59
ysionneau19:22 < dos1> it's basically the same with phones < with phones you are supposed to be able to rebuild the FW19:48
ysionneauexcept some closed source binary19:48
ysionneaubut I'm not sure it's the same for the matchstick, the source is not published anywhere, at least I could not find it19:48
dos1ysionneau: but that's not the case even with some "mozilla certified" phones19:48
ysionneauah really?19:49
ysionneauwhich one?19:49
dos1zte open for instance19:49
dos1you have to exploit it in order to modify system files19:50
ysionneauhummm19:50
dos1not sure if there's exploit for unlocking the bootloader yet; when I last checked there wasn't19:51
ysionneauCannot you just flash your own image via fastboot?19:51
dos1build has to be signed19:52
ysionneauhttps://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/ZTE_OPEN19:52
ysionneauoh19:52
dos1or it had to be, I might be not up-to-date19:52
ysionneauyou can build yout own Fx os and flash it on the zte19:54
ysionneauit's on the wiki19:54
ysionneauhttps://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/ZTE_OPEN#Firefox_OS_1.3_and_beyond19:54
dos1possibly, but it for sure wasn't the case after it was released19:54
ysionneauah indeed19:55
ysionneauhttps://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/ZTE_OPEN#Revision_0119:55
ysionneau"Phones produced before 09/27/2013 do not have fastboot enabled and must be updated. "19:55
ysionneauyou're right19:55
dos1and that wasn't the only model which suffered from that19:55
ysionneauok, I hope they fixed that by now :x19:55
ysionneauif you find other models where it's impossible to reflash it with your own image tell me19:56
ysionneauI can pass the word to the developers19:56
dos1looks like there are still some restrictions on zte open though19:56
dos1https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91026519:56
ysionneaulatest comment says you can flash the zte after the OTA update but there are issues (bugs) when flashing a more modern version of fx os20:02
ysionneauseems like a sw bug to me20:02
ysionneaubut at least you can flash whatever you want20:02
ysionneauso someone needs to fix that bug indeed20:03
ysionneaubut since it's open source, anyone can do it20:03
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