#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2014-09-06

kyakDocScrutinizer05: it wasn't in news, it's a documentary film about World War I. Of course, every documentary is also a complex research project, so it's error-prone. The creators already acknowledged this mistake and apologized for it (it will be corrected).05:22
kyakmeanwhile, have a look at this: http://topwar.ru/55467-kadry-iz-kompyuternoy-igry-ukrainskie-smi-vydali-za-dokazatelstvo-obstrela-ih-territorii-rossiyskimi-voennymi.html05:22
kyakthis was in news, and even after the source of images (computer game) was revealed, there were no apologies or refutation05:23
DocScrutinizer05kyak: thanks for clarification 05:23
whitequarkkyak: "those guys do bad things do, therefore the bad things we do aren't as bad"05:26
whitequarkgtfo with this "logic".05:26
DocScrutinizer05convenient since 1000s of years ;-)05:30
kyaki'm trying to filter information, because it is distorted from "those" guys as well as from "these" guys05:34
kyakin these days, we can't just take any news for granted05:35
kyakpropaganda in usa and eu is as bad as in russia05:35
kyakbut it's not a justification for any of the sides, of course05:36
whitequarkThe Onion is the only english news source worth reading05:36
whitequarkfor real05:36
kyakwww.theonion.com ?05:36
kyaki'll try following them for a while, let's see :)05:36
kyakwhitequark: they seems to cover internal affairs mostly, so it's not hard to be unbiassed05:40
kyakmany NFL news, what propaganda could go there? :)05:40
whitequarkhey, they have international stories as well05:44
kyakthe first sentence of this article: http://www.theonion.com/articles/who-is-vladimir-putin,36515/ basically summarizes all the western propaganda05:46
kyakyes, it says "allegedly" and "believed to"05:47
kyakbut does it matter for a reader?05:47
whitequarkis that the only thing you find odd in that article?05:48
kyakthe article operates the facts (kind of wikipedia style), that's odd 05:49
kyakmixing those facts with "funny" facts05:49
kyakmaybe trying to make those "funny" facts more credible05:49
kyakok, i'm out 05:50
whitequark... more credible?05:52
mthI think mainstream news has become so poor that fake news doesn't stand out anymore...05:53
DocScrutinizer05other topic: the sentence >> The actual X is the lower value *between* A and B << sounds odd. Is that just me or the writer of this sentence using poor english?06:01
whitequarkpoor english06:01
DocScrutinizer05The actual X is the lower of the two values A and B06:02
whitequarkbetter said as "X is the lesser of A and B"06:02
whitequarkor what you said06:02
mth"the minimum of A and B" would be another option06:07
wpwrakkyak: the thing is that theonion is a sarcastic site making fun of news and journalism. nothing they report is supposed to be serious. the problem in this case is that - as mth remarked - exaggeration doesn't work as a mechanism for marking parody.09:17
eintopfthey had also make an movie about theonion news :-)09:18
wpwrakoh :)09:18
whitequarki still maintain that theonion is the only thing worth reading.09:18
wpwrakwhitequark: i kinda like telepolis, of heise.de09:19
eintopffor germany (postillion) is better http://www.der-postillon.com/09:19
wpwrakwhitequark: sometimes has a strong ideological slant, but at least they're pretty distant from "mainstream" media. i.e., tranquilizers for the uneducated masses09:19
wpwrakyeah, they're good :)09:20
whitequarkhahaha http://www.der-postillon.com/2014/09/nato-chef-rasmussen-verscharft-ton.html09:21
wpwrakon the issue of ukraine: http://www.der-postillon.com/2014/08/putin-schickt-armee-in-ostukraine-um.html09:23
wpwrakironically, that's not all that different from the reasoning we've heard for some of the little adventures the US chose to undertake09:24
eintopfthat was funny, too.09:26
whitequarkwpwrak: that's not ... actually parody09:27
whitequarkbecause the official motivation sounds even more absurd09:27
wpwraksoldiers doing vacations ? yeah ;-)09:27
whitequarkoh, that one's new09:28
wpwrakof course the other side does pretty similar things. may actually have started it for all i know09:28
whitequarkother side doesn't just randomly annex territory whenever it wants09:28
wpwrakaren't there "unofficial" forces from poland, the US, and some 3rd country in ukraine now ?09:28
whitequarkhm, no clue, but hopefully yes09:29
wpwrakhere's a lovely picture: http://caricatura.ru/daily/podvitski/pic/765.jpg09:32
larscapelete: did you have 3.16 running on the nanonote?11:25
apeletelarsc: yes, I tested the last patches I sent upstream on 3.16-rcX14:41
apeletelarsc: didn't publish a proprer jz-3.16 branch for the nanonote though, would you like me to do so ?14:42
larscif you have it14:43
DocScrutinizer05((<whitequark> hm, no clue, but hopefully yes)) alas for all I can tell from filtering the few little common parts out of the noise, there are not16:54
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: interesting article, semi-relevant: http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141946/alexander-j-motyl/putins-trap16:54
DocScrutinizer05(where I don't give any credibility to the usual Saddam/Gaddafi babbling of "forgein forces pay them for demontrating and give them extasy pills")16:56
DocScrutinizer05ounds more like a thing Russia might occasionally do16:57
whitequarkwell, that did happen in the past16:57
whitequarkbut it doesn't really give any credibility to the claims16:57
DocScrutinizer05I haven't heard of busses transporting randomly picked passengers to demos "in the name of western forces"16:58
whitequarkoh, demonstrating, I misread16:58
whitequarkthat I haven't heard of, too16:58
DocScrutinizer05if there were, some eastern news had reported about it16:58
DocScrutinizer05we however seen that happen for pro-russian demonstrators16:59
whitequarkyeah, it's a well-known strategy. happens for elections regularly, too17:00
DocScrutinizer05unclear if they received money for it17:00
whitequarkthey di17:00
whitequarkthough the amounts are laughable17:00
DocScrutinizer05well, here idiot pensioners even pay for getting transported whole day to a sales event where they can buy snake oil for ¬¬¬¬17:02
DocScrutinizer05goog kaffeefahrt17:02
whitequarkthat's not unique to DE :p17:02
whitequarkselling snake oil to pensioners is an amusement widespread worldwide 17:03
wpwrakwhitequark: what's actually the general opinion of putin in russia ? he does seem to have established control over the mafia that had taken over after the fall of communism, doesn't he ?17:54
whitequarkwpwrak: widespread support, especially after annexion of crimea17:55
wpwrakso much about "and Russia tires of Putinism’s misdeeds,"  :)17:55
whitequarkwhich is why I say, the whole damn place just needs to be burned down17:55
wpwrakwell, this sort of things tend to excite people. nothing new about it. if the populace doubts you, start a war.17:56
whitequarkbut there hasn't even been a single protest against the war17:56
wpwrakbut apart from ukraine, what do people think of putin's cleanup inside the country ? do they recognize it as such ?17:56
whitequarkand in the west, there were pretty big ones against iraq and so. not that it changed much, but still17:57
wpwrakdifferent cultures ...17:57
whitequarkwell, the country is in some order. it's better than India or, apparently, Argentina17:57
wpwrakthe west has lived with democracy long enough that the governments know they don't have to fear it :)17:57
whitequarkI wouldn't dare to guess how much of a Putin's accomplishment is that17:58
whitequarkit is also true that Putin's rule mostly coincided with a marked increase in the standard of life17:58
wpwrakthat helps, of course17:59
whitequarkbecause of oil prices, of course. but again, it's not causation17:59
whitequarkmost people don't analyze it to that level, of course17:59
wpwrakwere people frustrated with the disorder before putin came to power ?18:00
whitequarkI mean, there was rampant mafia, and then there was the default of 199818:01
wpwrakso putin did good, or is at least perceived as having done so18:04
wpwrak(perceived by his country's population)18:04
whitequarkpretty much the only part of society dissatisfied with putin are young urban professionals.18:04
whitequarkeveryone else is 1) trained to accept whatever rule is in order, or 2) happy with however little they got, or 3) happy with said increase in living standard, or 4) just don't give a fuck18:05
wpwrakwhat bothers the young urban professionals most ? the more restrictive laws ? increased customs restrictions ?18:08
wpwrakand well, 3) is a pretty strong argument :)18:08
whitequarkthe internet censorship, the customs restrictions, complete lack of due process, nearly complete corruption in all parts of government, the fact that if you go to a protest you will be randomly beaten, jailed and chances are imprisoned,18:09
whitequarkthe increasing role of church in politics (which is just another corrupt branch of government, if you look at it right now),18:10
whitequarkcomplete lack of investment in non-extractive industries,18:10
wpwrakah, church seizing its opportunity after communism. interesting :)18:10
whitequarkthe fact that the country is led by a nepotic asshole with imperialist tendencies, at last.18:11
whitequarkI could go on18:11
wpwrakdid you ever participate in any protest ?18:11
whitequarkhaven't got a chance18:11
wpwraklack of due process is with regard to specific issues or general ?18:11
whitequarkI mean, the case against Navalny (regardless of his virtues in general) is fabricated. specifically.18:12
whitequarkthe government accuses him of fraud. the company that he supposedly defrauded repeatedly makes public and official statements, including in writing by CEO, that they are completely satisfied with Navalny's job18:12
whitequarkthe government continues accusing him of fraud, now inventing claims so bogus you can hardly believe your eyes,18:13
whitequarkthis is typical.18:13
whitequarkand in general? look at statistics. over 99% of cases are resolved as "guilty".18:13
whitequark(against private persons, at least)18:13
whitequarkthis is a well-known and studied phenomenon that basically means that courts are broken.18:14
wpwrakis that a legacy from the communist era or something he re-introduced ?18:15
whitequarkI have no idea at all how law worked in USSR, so can't answer.18:16
whitequarkI'm fairly sure it isn't new, just because such things are systemic failures and aren't introduced (or disappear) quickly18:16
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: btw, here is an interesting article that argues the pro-putin side: http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/42/42539/1.html18:17
wpwrakwhitequark: so the complaint in the area of justice is basically that he hasn't done enough (and/or may not be interested in doing something), to bring russia to a western level ?18:21
whitequarkthat's a good description of it.18:22
wpwrakand, from the young urban professionals, that he basically ignores them and their economic potential18:22
whitequarkfrom what I understand, the current top positions in government are occupied by Putin himself and his KGB friends18:22
whitequarkthere was a great infographic recently, it's astonishing how pervasive the nepotism is18:22
whitequarkin early 2000s there were quite some changes to the better, RU actually seemed like it had some kind of bright future18:23
wpwrakyou should see what we have in argentina :) there's a whole factory of government goons. they have their people everywhere now. i guess it'll be fun to watch the great purge 2016 and onward18:23
whitequarkcould also see this by watching the sentiment (and investor money) from the west18:23
whitequarkbut now it's all completely reversed18:24
wpwrakso economic policies. yes, these things only bother the "little people" when then actually result in problems for them.18:25
whitequarkwell, it's not just economy, but you aren't far off18:26
whitequarkwhen you place bread on table, you can be quite an asshole and still people would vote for you18:26
whitequarkespecially if not so long ago there wasn't any bread.18:27
wpwrakpeople also tend to accept some measure of other decisions they may not entirely like18:27
wpwrakhow's the perception of the terrorism threat ? did people get worked up about it ? after all, it reached even moscow. and how do they feel about it now ?18:27
whitequarkvery little18:28
wpwrakfrom your description, it seems that putin's principal failing is that you don't like him ;-)18:28
whitequarkthere was some worry in early 2000s, but nowhere like american levels of runaway positive feedback loop18:28
wpwrakhah, there's something to be said about russian calm ;-)18:29
whitequark(I don't like him) I don't like a country which doesn't *have* to stay on the level of development of Nigeria, but it still does18:29
wpwrakprobably the best way to fight terrorism. just ignore it and proceed with your life. they'll grow tired of blowing themselves up soon enough ...18:30
whitequarkthat's a pretty fucking good reason18:30
whitequark(fight terrorism) yes, absolutely. treat it like a natural disaster.18:30
wpwrakwell, it seems that he took several steps in the right direction. stabilize things. wait a bit while making sure no new mafia pops up when things get opened again.18:31
wpwrakat least it would seem that the mafia rule was the sort of problem that would justify exceptional measures18:32
whitequarkyou do realize that the main function of the government is extracting money by truckloads into Swiss banks?18:32
whitequarkand by "extracting" I mean "blatant theft"18:32
wpwrakah, wisely creating reserves ? ;-)18:33
whitequarkthere were reserves, in fact18:33
whitequarkI may not be entirely up to date, but I think not anymore18:33
wpwrakhow long can putin stay in power ? are there any constitutional limits for him ?18:33
whitequarkexcellent question18:33
whitequarkfirst it was two terms of 4 years18:33
wpwrak(reserves) maybe they've been "privatized". most of the west would applaud ;-18:34
whitequarkand I think there was some measure that allowed him to take 4 years off and then restart indefinitely18:34
whitequarkgiving rise to this picture: http://apikabu.ru/img_n/2011-10_5/63c.jpg18:34
whitequarkbut a few years ago, very very silently, a constitutional amendment was passed that allowed him to serve 3 terms of 6 years18:34
whitequarki.e. 18 years, and he'll surely be dead by the end of that18:35
wpwrak(picture) so he'd alternate with some companion ?18:35
whitequarkthe captions say "bald" "hairy"18:36
wpwrakah ! ;-)18:37
whitequarkevidently there aren't any constitutional measures that would actually work18:37
wpwrakmedvedev wasn't too bad for the kind of economic development you see missing under putin, was he ?18:37
whitequarkso the whole question is irrelevant18:37
whitequarkwpwrak: there is no difference18:38
DocScrutinizer05((probably the best way to fight terrorism)) defintely. I'm preaching this since ages18:38
whitequarkas in, the people who rule are the same.18:38
wpwrakthat alternating scheme sounds like what the kirchners had in mind, with him and her swapping presidency. well, he made the mistake of dying, and then picked her trusted advisers only by loyalty.18:40
wpwraki think you once had such a government in russia, too :)18:41
larscwell, here we are stuck with Merkel indefinitely18:41
DocScrutinizer05there been Birne ;-P18:42
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: a good case study is Aum Shinrikyo18:42
whitequarklarsc: well, Merkel isn't too bad, is she?18:43
wpwraklarsc: 9 years and counting, right ? how much longer can she keep that position ?18:43
DocScrutinizer05see Kohl18:43
larscwpwrak: 20 at least18:43
wpwrakwow 5 four-year terms. that's a lot18:44
whitequarkwpwrak: related. I recall some German politician being rightly accused of plagiarism18:44
whitequarkhe almost immediately resigned and I think was pretty much banished from politics18:44
larscwhitequark: and now he works for a think-tank in washington18:45
wpwrak# s/banished/promoted/ ;-)18:45
DocScrutinizer05oh really? I thought he's internet-expert in Buxelles now18:45
whitequarklarsc: gotta sabotage the America18:45
DocScrutinizer05are we actually talking about guttenberg or sb else?18:46
whitequarkanyway, my point is, here at RU a bunch of people got excited and uncovered dozens of cases of blatant plagiarism18:46
wpwrakwhitequark: i think when/if you get an inside view of western democracies, you'll be rather disappointed18:46
whitequarkit ended in a few libel cases, the library institution that was verifying the claims stopping actually accepting the submissions, and that's all18:47
wpwrakwhitequark: they have different ways for doing many of the evil things, but that doesn't mean that they don't do them18:47
larscDocScrutinizer05: http://www.zeit.de/news/2011-09/29/politik-guttenberg-schliesst-sich-us-thinktank-an-2917060718:47
whitequarkwpwrak: it's slightly less broken18:47
whitequarkI'll take slightly less broken, thanks.18:47
DocScrutinizer05Guttenberg had to go when Merkel felt bored about opposition bitching and bickering18:47
DocScrutinizer05larsc: ooh, thanks18:47
whitequarkwest is far from perfect, but there are significant cultural differences that totally matter18:48
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: btw there's been little news in http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141946/alexander-j-motyl/putins-trap18:49
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: well, the "scorched earth" strategy was news for me18:49
whitequarkit makes some perverse sense18:50
DocScrutinizer05actually our TV news are pretty non-biased and explaned all that as a possible reason for the mess long before18:50
wpwrakwhitequark: the west seems to become more repressive at an alarming rate. you have a good measure of freedom of speech in most of the western countries, but since everybody has that, it's hard to be heard. so that's the trick.18:51
whitequarkwpwrak: it's a global trend. and it also varies heavily.18:51
wpwrakand as soon as economical interests are touched, things turn a lot more hostile18:51
whitequarkI sure won't want to become a citizen of US or UK18:52
whitequarkthe whole "five eyes" thing, basically18:52
wpwrakheh :)18:52
wpwrakunfortunately, they're extending their sphere on influence. e.g., there are secret (!) negotiations between 5 eyes countries and the EU that basically force the EU to adopt many of their laws18:53
wpwrakof course, without a shred of democratic pretense18:53
whitequarkthat's completely unsurprising18:53
whitequarkbut again, you gotta work with what you have. I'll take a slightly less broken thing18:54
DocScrutinizer05here in D I notice increasing repression on silly everyday things since years18:54
DocScrutinizer05no smoking, for example18:54
DocScrutinizer05well, that's EU18:54
whitequarkheh, smoking18:54
whitequarkRU banned smoking recently for some obscure reason too18:54
wpwrakheh, the smoking ban went surprisingly smoothly in argentina. it seems that people were almost waiting for it ;-)18:54
whitequarkI feel it is a part of some wider political move but I don't understand exactly which one18:54
whitequarkI'm not going to cry for your vice :p18:55
wpwrakto be "modern" ?18:55
DocScrutinizer05soon you will not be allowed to walk on public streets when you're drunk, or you lose your permission to use your feet18:55
wpwrakwell, it's nice if us non-smokers don't have to cough our lungs out. mine are kinda delicate, so this is a rather significant improvement.18:55
whitequark^ smoking is a torture for people with asthma and COPD18:56
whitequarkliteral torture18:56
DocScrutinizer05it's a worldwide trend for incapacitation18:56
whitequarkoh come on18:56
DocScrutinizer05everything, not just no-smoking18:57
whitequarkare you still grumpy about that time they took your cocaine use away from you in 1920s?18:57
DocScrutinizer05actaully I am18:57
DocScrutinizer05another instance of silly laws18:57
whitequarkwell, hm18:58
whitequarkI must agree though, drug crackdown led to absolutely no good18:58
wpwrakdrugs should be legalized anyway. not as in "sell them at the kiosk, next to the candy", but as in "sell them like prescription medicine"18:58
whitequarkwpwrak: no, that's a bad idea18:58
whitequarkin US you have more deaths from prescriotion meds overdose than illegal hard drugs, by a large margin18:58
whitequark(see CDC statistics)18:58
DocScrutinizer05so does alcohol abuse18:59
wpwrakexactly. people who want to kill themselves will find a way. they don't need illegal drugs for that.18:59
wpwrakor obesity ...18:59
whitequarkstill, smoking tends to affect those around you much more19:00
DocScrutinizer05you know those laws originally got installed to regulate the market so hospitals would not run short of narcotics after WW-I ?19:00
whitequarkif you need that nicotine, use e-cigs19:00
whitequark(the laws which ban *those* are just idiotic and I stand on that)19:00
DocScrutinizer05I'm not worried about smoking prohibition. Smoking is silly19:00
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: I heard (and read) a different story19:00
whitequarksee early WHO documents19:01
whitequarkit seemed like some weird outbreak of puritanism19:01
whitequarki.e. mostly ideologically, not practically, motivated19:01
DocScrutinizer05german drug laws predate the WHO19:01
whitequarksame as war on drugs in USA now, except USA lags fifty years behind or something19:02
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: could be both19:02
whitequarkoh, WW-I19:02
whitequark1 Kilogram of opium O_o19:06
DocScrutinizer05 22. März 1917 19:07
whitequarkyeah I seen that19:07
DocScrutinizer05(smoking) they gonna forbid e-cigs completely, pretty soonish19:12
whitequarkthat's just idiotic19:14
DocScrutinizer05they try to define it as a medication that needs approval19:15
DocScrutinizer05that's what i mean19:15
whitequarkshould do it to alcohol too19:15
whitequarkby exact same logic19:15
DocScrutinizer05they gonna forbit riding bicycle without wearing a helmet19:15
whitequarkyeah I see what you mean by "everyday repression"19:16
DocScrutinizer05you MSUT NOT work longer than 8h per day19:16
DocScrutinizer05etc pp19:16
whitequarkamericans call it "nanny state"19:16
whitequarka pretty apt definition I say19:16
whitequarknot to me19:19
DocScrutinizer05gave infobot a reboot19:19
DocScrutinizer05[2014-09-06 Sat 21:16:50] <-- infobot (ibot@rikers.org) has left this server (*.net *.split).19:20
DocScrutinizer05[2014-09-06 Sat 21:21:16] --> infobot (ibot@rikers.org) has joined this channel.19:21
DocScrutinizer05>> Erst bei der 2. Opiumkonferenz im Jahr 1925 in Genf wurde die Hanfdroge in ein internationales Abkommen aufgenommen. China und die USA hatten bei der Abstimmung die Konferenz bereits unter Protest verlassen. Indien und sieben weitere Länder stimmten gegen die Aufnahme des Hanfs unter die zu kontrollierenden Drogen. Ägypten und neun weitere Länder, für eine solche Aufnahme. Großbritannien und die Nieder- lande enthielten sich 19:23
DocScrutinizer05der Stimme. Das Deutsche Reich stimmte dafür, weil Ägypten im Gegenzug dem Deutschen Reich zusicherte, kein Importverbot für Heroin zu erlassen. Hanf wurde 1925 den Interessen der deutschen Pharmaindustrie geopfert.<<19:23
lokhi all20:35
lokneed advice abt mk808/android tv related info if any one has used20:36
DocScrutinizer05when it's not too android related...20:53
DocScrutinizer05i'd say, ask20:53
lok& sorry for being little late21:01
loki was hunting a low-cost/relibale device (like chromecast) whcih can be sandwiched between my USB thumb drive and LCD TV(non-smart) to view movies 21:02
lokmovies are stroed in USB thumb drive 21:02
lok7 mins whitequark 21:02
lokDocScrutinizer05: 21:02
loki dont like to switch ON both devices together(TV+Laptop/Phone) to see movies from chromecast21:04
DocScrutinizer05I can only tell you that the *hardware* of mk808 should be exactly what you need. No idea about chromecast and the OS on mk808 though21:06
lokok yes that is what i have concluded but not sure21:06
lokthanks for advice21:06
lokis mk808 latest in its series? m8x21:07
loki think it was launched very long back21:07
lokDocScrutinizer05: 21:07
DocScrutinizer05there seems to be a rk3188 based one21:07
DocScrutinizer05quad core, 1.6GHz21:07
DocScrutinizer05and a 2core 1GHz21:08
lokit is some chinese company21:08
lokezcast, iam not sure whether it is hepful for me or not? measy21:08
DocScrutinizer05I'd assume it for sure is capable to playback usual video files21:10
DocScrutinizer05no idea if yours are "usual" though21:10
DocScrutinizer05well, it says OS is android, so you prolly could find most of the commonly used android apps for it21:11
loki have video files like mkv, mp4, avi 21:11
loki guess those are usual now a days21:11
lokDocScrutinizer05: 21:11
lokandroid app for what?21:12
DocScrutinizer05whatever you need21:14
DocScrutinizer05chromecast? (if that's an app)21:15
DocScrutinizer05maybe better ask on err #android maybe?21:17
lokone more query was htc 1 v hooking up wiht my TV 21:18
lokcan i ask here?21:19
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