#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2014-08-20

wpwrakso ... did anyone try the simulator ?00:51
uncloudedvery tempted to, but.. time04:48
wpwrakit's not as if there would be a maze of dialog screens awaiting you ;-)05:01
DocScrutinizer51emulator?13:28
DocScrutinizer51for some SoC?13:30
DocScrutinizer05dammit, I won't be able to eat up those 1.5GB data volume. left VNC connected for 8h and it only used up 200MB ;-P13:32
DocScrutinizer05apropos:13:33
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: how about you already start with maemo-scratchbox? give it a test, it gives you a first impression of what's awaiting you when we get that device to yours13:34
DocScrutinizer05[2014-08-20 Wed 15:35:03] <DocScrutinizer05> ~sb13:35
DocScrutinizer05[2014-08-20 Wed 15:35:08] <infobot> well, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB13:35
DocScrutinizer05get the VM image from merlin's place!13:36
DocScrutinizer05actually I found the xephyr based emu quite exciting, it kinda really feels like the true thing: maemo on N90013:37
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: (simulator) for anelok, just for GUI development. provides "touch" input and display13:41
wpwrak(scratchbox) i'll have a look at it13:42
Action: mth thinks scratchbox is the wrong approach...13:42
mthyou can't completely hide the fact that you're doing a cross build13:42
mthand in the cases where it fails, scratchbox is an extra layer of complexity to deal with when debugging13:43
DocScrutinizer51sb is a nightmare13:43
DocScrutinizer51but the result is awesoome13:43
DocScrutinizer05even Nokia tried to come up with something more sleak: MADDE13:45
DocScrutinizer05but aiui MADDE needs a real N900 attached to PC to run the binaries on there, while sb has a complete emu of N900 (well, almost complete. obviously no phone calls, no GPS etc)13:46
DocScrutinizer05and they even use x86 binaries for that, aiui13:46
Action: ysionneau wonders what scratchbox is13:46
ysionneauis it like a mix of buildroot+qemu ?13:47
mthbut how often do you really need to run target binaries as part of the build? only a few packages need something like that13:47
DocScrutinizer05ysionneau: yes13:47
mthmost cross build problems are bad configure scripts that do things like hardcoding /usr/include into CFLAGS13:47
DocScrutinizer05it's not about building, it's about testing13:47
ysionneauok13:48
mthI never got past the build stage before I dumped it ;)13:48
DocScrutinizer05haha13:48
ysionneauI watched a video of scratchbox on the web, it made me think about Android emulator (which is Qemu)13:48
ysionneauand yes it's pretty cool for testing13:48
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: you'll also need this link:  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide13:50
DocScrutinizer05and http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK13:53
DocScrutinizer05do NOT use the gui tool to install sb! actaully do not install sb at all ;), just use the VM image of merlin's server13:54
DocScrutinizer05I heard somebody managed to install sb natively only 2 months ago, and took him only one day13:55
DocScrutinizer05so it *can* be done13:55
DocScrutinizer05I suggest to steer clear13:55
wpwrakhmm. it starts increasingly like the sort of operation that needs a thorough backup before you try it ...13:55
DocScrutinizer05what? installing sb? it just creates a /sb/ dir of some 5GB size on your PC. Then eventually a initscript will start a chroot in there13:58
DocScrutinizer05so a good way to nuke your PC is a rm -rf /sb13:59
DocScrutinizer05like with any other chroot13:59
wpwrak5 GB. more fun then.13:59
DocScrutinizer05yeah, friggin bloated13:59
DocScrutinizer05that's however incl kernel sources and all, iirc14:00
DocScrutinizer05the VM is slightly >1GB14:00
DocScrutinizer05for installing rootstraps you need a "token", google is your friend, or justr ask me14:01
wpwrakit sounds increasingly like the sort of software i'd rather not have on my system :)14:04
DocScrutinizer05hmm, no. nothing wrong with it, once it's installed (or started in VM even, which I recommend)14:06
DocScrutinizer05sb itself is a biatch14:07
DocScrutinizer05and the bindmounts are as nasty as are on any other chroot14:08
DocScrutinizer05nevermind them in a VM however14:08
DocScrutinizer05just NEVER do a `rm -rf <chrootdir>` while stuff like /proc and /sys etc is still bindmounted to the chroot dir. That's general advice for all *nix chroots14:09
mthrm has a --one-file-system option that might help against that14:10
mth*might* because I'm not sure it would help against bind mounts on the same fs14:11
DocScrutinizer05maemo itself has some closed blobs e.g. powervr driver lib 3D) which need some "authentication" to download them from Nokia repo14:11
DocScrutinizer05mth: solution: "stop" the chroot before doing any rm14:11
DocScrutinizer05alas you forget about that lil detail every now and then14:12
DocScrutinizer05that's why I *always* emphasize it14:13
DocScrutinizer05hint: https://www.google.com/search?q=maemo+rootstrap&ie=UTF-814:15
DocScrutinizer05there's a constant 'magic number' in the repo URL14:16
qi-bot[commit] Nebuleon Fumika: Fix a crasher when launching an application whose icon is corrupt (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/575820914:35
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: If directory entry is a symbolic link, fall back on stat() (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/3eb3a8e14:35
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Don't assume that all non-directories are regular files (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/c7a5b8714:35
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Don't apply realpath() to entered subdirs in Selector (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/7b2c26c14:35
--- Thu Aug 21 201400:00

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