#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2014-07-30

larscwpwrak: how well does network manager support 6lowpan? ;)12:26
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: time to start emigration, before no more hightech imports and no immigration to EU allowed13:11
DocScrutinizer05I could figure it's hard to get a visa for an "aggressor" state13:12
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: but it should be easy to get "refugee" status :)13:18
DocScrutinizer05no kidding13:18
DocScrutinizer05but I wonder if Putin will let go13:18
wpwraklarsc: apt-get remove network-manager ? ;-)13:18
DocScrutinizer05yum uninstall ?13:19
wpwrakwhatever kills it :)13:19
DocScrutinizer05(aggressor states) after all this new law in Russia will get established for some purpose, I don't think nothing in emigration politics of Russia will change from this13:21
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: yes, I've already decided to get out before the end of the year13:22
DocScrutinizer05might be early enough. i hope so for you13:22
whitequarkin Jan even13:22
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: oh, it's russia declaring aggressors ? that's new. so far that was the prerogative of the US ;-)13:23
wpwrakwhitequark: winter ... a good time to get out of russia :)13:24
wpwrakwhitequark: where to ?13:24
DocScrutinizer05nah! sanctions are aimed at Putin personally, to get him out of Government and to destabilize Russia. So all states that are sanctioning are agressors13:24
wpwrakthat may actually be reasonably close to the truth ;-)13:25
DocScrutinizer05all that has *nothing* to do with Russia/Putin sending weapons and illegal troops to Ukraine13:25
whitequarkwpwrak: I have several options13:25
wpwrakputin acts exactly like any US prez would, except that he doesn't even pretend to be "good"13:25
whitequarkUK, FR, HK, maybe even USA (probably not, no higher ed)13:26
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: and of course Russia will use that as an opportunity to build own hightech stuff finally. Long planned move, in 3 months Russia is back to normal and stronger and more independant than before13:26
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: they're going there to meet their colleagues the US sent, and compare the state of their equipment. think of it as a convention ;-)13:27
DocScrutinizer05hmm? sorry you lost me13:28
whitequarkhahaha, own hightech stuff13:28
wpwrakwhitequark: with you gone, they won't :)13:28
whitequarkeven with all else equal, it takes time and capital investment to get it back, orders of magnitude more than what'll be provided13:29
whitequarkand all else is *not* equal13:29
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: the usual US approach is to send "military advisors" and of course all sorts of equipment. they've done this countless times and in ukraine it's just the same. and now they're pissed off that the putin is copying their tricks. it's rather droll ;-)13:30
DocScrutinizer05yeah, kinda13:30
DocScrutinizer05I honestly don't give a fuck really13:31
wpwrakyeah, let's hope the thing doesn't blow up13:32
DocScrutinizer05it's just a pity how a few idiots with guns (either side) can mess up a whole country full of people who just want to do their *own* thing13:32
wpwrakwell, that's always been the case. and part of the problem there is of course that there's one country but more than one "own thing". and that's when things usually get complicated13:34
wpwraki think what we're seeing at the moment is really the beginning of the chaos that usually accompanies the rise and fall of empires13:35
wpwrakthe US are declining, china is on the rise. it'll take a while until a new equilibrium will be reached.13:36
DocScrutinizer05that sounds like a pretty precise characterization13:40
DocScrutinizer05it's prolly lest of US decline but in this particular case EU decay from bloat and poor foundation13:41
DocScrutinizer05while Soviet empire already recovers from complete implosion and now tries to go reaction/counter-revolution13:42
wpwrakyeah, i wonder how long until the EU in its present form breaks apart13:42
DocScrutinizer05it already does13:42
DocScrutinizer05in a few week Ireland or Scotland elect about leaving UK13:43
DocScrutinizer05Hungary goes absolutism13:43
DocScrutinizer05and England itself is not very happy with being in EU13:44
wpwrak(ireland ans scotland) well, they may still stay in the EU. besides, the UK is somewhat weakly linked anyway.13:44
wpwrakdunno about hungary. haven't heard anything from there. what's happening ?13:45
DocScrutinizer05Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, some analysts say next is France and that's been it then with EU13:45
DocScrutinizer05(Hungary) they turn into little Russia13:46
wpwrakgreece has big troubles. the rest still seem to be doing tolerably well. i mean, not "good" but also well below the point where you'd expect a revolution.13:46
DocScrutinizer05really? 60% unemployment?13:47
wpwrakand maybe spain's upcoming splintering will take some pressure off things13:47
DocScrutinizer05the global money machine is just big enough now to eat whole states like greece and spain13:48
wpwrakwhere did you get the 60% from ? spain had 25.6% in february 2014, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate13:49
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's youth unemployment13:49
wpwrakand high unemployment per se shouldn't be considered a problem13:49
wpwrakin fact, the problem is in it being considered a problem13:49
DocScrutinizer05the problem is in state debits 13:50
DocScrutinizer05the state doesn't generate income anymore, so it gets eaten by big money13:50
wpwrakit's simply that modern society does not need everyone to work. so the sooner the pretense of "full employment" can be dropped, the better. note the "can be", since there are obviously major changes needed before this can happen without just murdering the "useless"13:51
DocScrutinizer05sure, that's the lie of endles growth13:51
larsctax machines!13:51
DocScrutinizer05capitalism collapsing just like communism did13:52
DocScrutinizer05the money industry is magnitudes bigger than whole the rest of *real* industry13:53
DocScrutinizer05and you can witness live how a small state gets bought out, here Greece13:54
DocScrutinizer05other states will follow soon13:54
DocScrutinizer05you know that basically all the billions of EUR that EU gives to Greece are instantly returned to non-greecen banks and fonds to satisfy them?13:56
wpwrakwell, that's the reason why they "give" money to greece in the first place, isn't it ?13:56
wpwrakthink of it as a nice big money-laundering project13:56
DocScrutinizer05it's a buy-out of whole countries by money industry13:58
wpwrakwhy would they buy it ?14:00
DocScrutinizer05for the same reason why hedge fonds buy bankrupt companies14:00
wpwraki think it's just a collateral for money games. nobody cares about what is or lives there.14:00
wpwrakyup, that's what i mean14:00
DocScrutinizer05sure, it's only to make more money14:01
whitequarkwe're all going to die14:01
DocScrutinizer05sooner or later, yes14:01
DocScrutinizer05but until then I like to have fun and no hassle around me14:02
larscin that case you probably shouldn't worry that much about the fincial industries14:04
DocScrutinizer05it's determining where and how I live, after all14:05
DocScrutinizer05and heck, possibly even when and how I die14:05
wpwraknaw, that's monsanto's business :)14:05
DocScrutinizer05monsanto wouldn't be possible without the big money facilitating it14:06
DocScrutinizer05nobody needs that shit14:06
wpwrakoh, they go back a looong way. they pretty much made their own money.14:07
DocScrutinizer05and at least here nobody *wants* it either14:07
DocScrutinizer05monsanto maybe made their own money, but not enough to buy whole EU parliament so e.g. the titip(?) now allows US gene crap exports to all EU countries14:08
wpwrakdid you know that monsanto, for example, was one of the main producers of agent orange ?14:09
DocScrutinizer05there's *the* big money behind that too14:09
DocScrutinizer05not surprised14:09
DocScrutinizer05bayer, basf, monsanto, big oil, all the same shit14:10
ysionneauDow Chemical14:10
DocScrutinizer05you know a TV series "Max Headroom"? IIRC all districts been owned by big companies like CocaCola. No more nations, just commerce districts. We're not far from that14:11
DocScrutinizer05just needs a "Raumordnungsverfahren" (sorry lack of english term) eventually. Right now it's pretty mixed up everywhere14:12
wpwrakthat's an old dystopia. i don't see that one quite coming. in fact, the financial system is now the main mover that affects people at a personal level, not so much the megacorps.14:13
DocScrutinizer05and of course "CocaCola" is a lame joke. Rather this will be Leeman and DeutscheBank and Nestle etc14:14
DocScrutinizer05so yeah, typed before I read your answer14:15
DocScrutinizer05I just wonder when and how the inevitable clash between financial and big data systems will happen14:16
DocScrutinizer05when Google and DeutscheBank fight with each other who's owning Greece14:16
wpwrakclash ?14:16
wpwrakalliance ! :)14:17
DocScrutinizer05I don't see any interest in Google to ally with any big finance. *google+ actually has enough money14:17
DocScrutinizer05and they're already allied with the TLAs ;-)14:18
DocScrutinizer05recently I seen a TV advert "Hyundai. Developed in Germany. Built in EU" (http://www.hyundai.de/CMSPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=d284ee85-a82c-4bda-90f3-d22eec3e979c) So that's the third party involved in EU buyout: Asia and particularly China14:31
wpwrakasia is making a lot of money. it's only natural if they eventually want to spend it :)14:36
DocScrutinizer05and EU is burning a lot of money, so its a natural target to get bought out14:37
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: you'll like this one: http://pics.nase-bohren.de/version-control.jpg15:57
DocScrutinizer05bookmarked :-D16:00
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