#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2014-07-15

nicksydneygood for saving water http://www.instructables.com/id/Augmented-Water/?ALLSTEPS :)01:34
wpwrak(embedded linux computer) very nice :)01:43
wpwrak(aug water) i wonder whether one can save more water with that contraption than what went into producing it ;-)01:45
nicksydneywpwrak: good question...care to try it out :)01:58
nicksydneywhat can this breakout board  be used for http://dangerousprototypes.com/2014/07/10/ft2232h-breakout-board-back-in-stock-7/ ?06:19
nicksydneybesides for monitoring USB traffic ?06:19
whitequarksooo, I'm now in Perm (a russian city near Urals)09:11
whitequarkand I'm playing a game "which german city is this bus from". literally the first bus I laid my eyes in has the http://hvv.de logo on it09:11
whitequarkthey didn't even bother to disable or change the german stop names on the displays!09:12
DocScrutinizer05wtf is a HVV bus doing in Ural?09:25
whitequarkno clue09:25
DocScrutinizer05hijacked? ;-P09:26
whitequarkmy best guess is they have written them off after the new Euro-4 (or -5?) standard got approved09:26
whitequarkand it was deemed more efficient to send them to russians rather than refit09:26
DocScrutinizer05aaah, it's a second hand bus used in this city09:26
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's pretty common09:27
whitequarkwell, I'm certain HVV doesn't have an Urals subdivision09:27
DocScrutinizer05or a bus stop 09:27
whitequarkHamburg-Holstein-Urals transportation company? :p09:27
whitequarkwpwrak: http://hackaday.com/2014/07/14/cern-shows-off-new-kicad-module-editor/09:28
ysionneauwpwrak: what do you think about gEDA?09:41
ysionneauI've been asked this question but I only ever used Kicad09:41
wpwrakwhitequark: thanks ! posted some fped propaganda :)10:12
wpwrakysionneau: i looked at gEDA many years ago and found it not very pleasant, with schematics full of hidden fields, contradictions in the standard parts library, and so on. not sure how it has evolved since then.10:14
ysionneauok :)10:18
whitequarkwtf. an underground train just crashed in moscow, 12 dead: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bskqw4cIYAEO_x1.jpg:large12:05
whitequarkthe official reason is "it lost electrical power"12:05
whitequarkhow exactly do you engineer a train so that it derails when it loses power?12:06
pcercueithe brakes needed electricity?12:07
whitequarkit didn't crash into anything, it just derailed12:07
whitequarkso it didn't have to brake12:07
pcercueiwell without brakes it could have reached its dangerous speed limit and then derail12:08
whitequarkyou have: 1. a lot of kinetic energy 2. a device for transforming kinetic energy into electrical energy12:09
whitequarkI cannot see a good reason for brakes to not work in *any* circumstances, except maybe damage to signal backbone (apparently not the case)12:10
ysionneauhum as I understand it in a French article, the train pulled the brakes but then the wagons (?) bumped into one another's back12:19
ysionneauand I guess that's what caused some parts to derail12:19
larscthats how it also looks like in the picture12:22
DocScrutinizer05when russian trains are built in a way so brekes fail when *standard* energy (of whatever form) drops out, then actually *kudos* to those russian engineers12:23
DocScrutinizer05I however guess it's just the usual PEBKAC_syndrome. When the cars bumbed one into the other, somebody been extremely lazy at coupling them, to start with12:25
ysionneauI guess if the first car brakes too strong, it's hard to avoid the bumping problem12:25
DocScrutinizer05every train on this globe has bakes that work on the whole traon, not only on first car/engine12:26
ysionneauI hope so12:26
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: Remove the 'Selector alias file' feature (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/c72266d12:27
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: Remove the 'Show root' option, which didn't do anything (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/5e22dd512:27
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: Various changes related to translations (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/917cbf712:27
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: Greatly improve the French translation (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/c777de212:27
larscbad stuff happens sometimes12:28
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: 20 dead, 120 injured. allegedly loss of electric power caused emergency brake to kick in.  (source: german TV)13:44
DocScrutinizer0520+ even13:44
kyakwow, again, so many experts here13:54
kyakmaking conclusions before investigation ended13:54
ysionneauthat's what we do :)13:56
ysionneauDocScrutinizer05 forgot to mention that he is the source of german TV13:56
DocScrutinizer05kyak: aha13:57
DocScrutinizer05mind to get more specific who made conclusions? and which ones13:57
DocScrutinizer05thought as much13:58
wpwraktrain crashes can be tricky. see for example the regional train that crashed into a departing train in paris a few years ago.13:58
wpwrakmultiple brake systems, subtle bypassed13:58
DocScrutinizer05ranting and bashing also can be tricky. somebody may call you out on your claims13:59
wpwrakwell, i read quite a lot about accidents and their investigation. and i see of course the news. what the public thinks has happened is almost never what the investigation finds :)14:00
DocScrutinizer05but then, we're meanwhile used to it, no?14:00
kyakwpwrak: and both are often equally far away from truth14:01
wpwraki guess it's people easily overestimating their ability to analyze complex systems they don't really understand. like the layperson "diagnosing" some PC problems.14:01
DocScrutinizer05I'm just in the mood to deal with such general unbacked bashing. Coming straight from a tmo thread that had nothing but bashing and spreading nonsense14:01
wpwrakkyak: depends a bit. i think in aviation chances are quite good for an unbiased investigation. not always and not everywhere, but i'd say in most cases.14:02
kyakwpwrak: i thought you were talkign about that tv show :)14:02
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: rough first council day ? ;-)14:02
DocScrutinizer05and when somebody claims he knows the truth and all other chnnel participants ate idiots, then that's just what I need to make my day14:02
DocScrutinizer05s/ate /are /14:03
wpwrakkyak: air crash investigation / mayday ? yeah, they sum up things fairly well. but the reports usually get much deeper, especially those from NTSB.14:03
DocScrutinizer05when such claims like "making conclusions" are not even backed up by a single rationale when asked for, then I'm in brilliant mood to consider actions14:05
kyaki've read the report from Ariane 5 crash, it was very interesting14:05
wpwrakkyak: as a starter, the final report to the air alaska crash (went into the pacific before LAX after increasingly catastrophic control problems) is more gripping than many a novel - if you're an engineer and can appreciate the depth of their investigation: http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2002/AAR0201.pdf14:06
DocScrutinizer05since I *love* arrogant belittling comments14:06
kyakwpwrak: the one from Ariane 5 is much shorter (or it is a summary): https://www.ima.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/ariane5rep.html14:07
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: we know that well enough ;-)14:07
DocScrutinizer05just waiting for the next one14:08
kyakyep.. that's serious14:08
wpwrakheh, ariane5 page went off the map ;-)14:09
wpwrakapparently too much truth in there :)14:09
DocScrutinizer05don't do that please, won't help14:09
kyakand the last words were "ah here we go."14:12
kyakpretty sad, i'd say14:12
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: re german TV: sounds like exactly what the preliminary investigation says14:21
DocScrutinizer05thought as much14:21
DocScrutinizer05they usually don't do own investigations on such news14:21
whitequarkwell duh14:22
DocScrutinizer05usually such stuff comes in via reuters or whatever news agency, and then they ask their moscow correspondent if there's any additional info available "at location"14:24
whitequarkitar-tass in this case14:25
DocScrutinizer05though they tend to take itar-tass with a grain of salt14:25
whitequarkoh do they?14:25
DocScrutinizer05usually they will want a second source, just in case.... ;-)14:25
whitequarkas far as I know (source: a bunch of journalists in moscow whom I trust), itar-tass is a very decent source14:26
DocScrutinizer05if they can't find a second source, they clearly state it's "accorsing to itar-tass"14:26
whitequarkor interfax, they'd be the best you find there14:26
whitequarkthe others are just "broken phone" apart of those mostly14:26
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I might mix up itar-tass with sth else. Probably I do14:27
DocScrutinizer05that's no news agency, is it?14:27
whitequarkwell I dunno what your news would take as source :p14:28
DocScrutinizer05anyway, trying to get away from that damn kbd, for good now14:28
whitequarkI'm fairly sure rt does their own reports, at least I've seen their vans14:28
whitequarkthey're horribly biased tho14:28
whitequarkyou can basically take the exact opposite to find out the truth :p14:28
DocScrutinizer05there's news agencies and TV/newspaper own reporters. While agencies only sell their stuff to the newspapers and TV stations14:29
DocScrutinizer05reuters is an agency, itar-tass is afaik14:29
Action: DocScrutinizer05 is away14:30
DocScrutinizer05nope, didn't mix up anything:  http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITAR-TASS14:31
DocScrutinizer05official russian news agency14:31
apeletelarsc: are you there ?21:18
larscnot really21:20
apeletedoes that mean you're going away ?21:21
apeletelarsc: ok, we'll talk tommorow then21:22
apeletelarsc: I was having an issue with the mmc framwork while preparing dma request in advance with pre_req() and post_req() hooks21:23
apeletelet's call it a night and talk about it tomorrow21:23
--- Wed Jul 16 201400:00

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