#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2014-06-08

wpwrakfun times: yesterday, a waste water pipe in my building clogged. when trying to unclog it, they apparently made a hole that went into a neighbouring house (not entirely sure about his bit yet)13:09
wpwrakbut this did't solve the blockage. so water kept on building up and the pipe overflowed. apparently, it started around 10 am. at 10 pm or so, there was still water coming out of it.13:10
wpwrakthis happened on the 7th floor. i'm safe and sound at the 14th. well, almost safe. because to try to stop the water, they closed the valves of the supply pipes, so supposedly nobody has water not, and13:11
wpwrakwith all the water in places where it doesn't belong, the elevators had to be shut down - at first partially, then completely.13:12
wpwraknow, at the top floor (mine), we have a special construct, since the regular water pressure from height isn't sufficient (the tanks are just maybe 1-2 m above a shower head), so there's an extra pump.13:13
wpwrakand this one wasn't shut down, giving me at least access to the water in the tank. so for now, i do have water. lucky again :)13:14
wpwrakhowever, being in the 14th floor without elevators isn't so much fun. and we had a "war on terror" session scheduled just for last evening. luckily, an elevators was still working when i went to buy the beers.13:15
wpwrakwhen people started arriving, i had to walk down 14 floors to let them in, then together 13 floors up. at departure, the same. quite the exercise for a couch potato like me.13:16
wpwrakfortunateley, nobody slipped on the wet and contaminated floor. (all the water went down the staircase)13:17
ysionneausounds like fun :)13:18
wpwrakthe affected apartments looked like war zones. floor completely soaked, improvised barriers, and people trying to sweep the water out into corridor and staircase13:18
wpwrakthey were doing that basically all day. we then recommended that those in the floors above wouldn't use kitchen sinks and toilets, to avoid adding more water to the mess.13:19
wpwrak(there's some puzzlement about what kind of waste water this is - some say it's from kitchens, others say it may contain other stuff)13:20
wpwraktoday they should try to resolve it. let's see how it goes ...13:23
wpwrakah yes, and one of my friends broke a tooth - for unrelated reasons - during out get-together13:26
wpwrakand for those curious, in the end the US won the war on terror :-( (though we determined this by counting territories, not a proper victory, since there was still no end in sight at ~4 am)13:27
whitequarkwar on terror?13:28
whitequarkoh, a board game13:28
wpwrakyeah, great fun. but takes forever :)13:32
wpwrak(well, we're slow. i suppose better trained players could do it in a few hours.)13:33
larscand less beer ;)13:37
wpwrakhmm, 6 people, about 8 liters of beer (divided among 4), two bottles of wine, a cider. nothing too wild14:12
ysionneauDocScrutinizer05 : http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTcwNzY Cool :)14:22
ysionneauN900 "modem" driver will be mainline14:22
DocScrutinizer05yep, seen that14:23
DocScrutinizer05it's lacking audio however, so it's basically just a silly ISI/HSI interface14:23
DocScrutinizer05it's the FOSS maemo5 HSI driver that simply gone upstream now14:24
DocScrutinizer05well, s/HSI/SSI/14:25
ysionneauok :)14:25
DocScrutinizer05the ISI protocol the modem is speaking via SSI is still a pile of largely cryptic and obscure crap14:28
DocScrutinizer05ofono claims to have a userland ISI lib and stack to actually talk to the modem14:28
DocScrutinizer05FSO as well14:28
DocScrutinizer05SHR can talk to N900 modem since "ages"14:29
DocScrutinizer05but the BB5 is definitely no AT-modem14:29
DocScrutinizer05and considering the dwindling number of working N900 out in the wild, you wonder what for upstream needs that SSI driver *now*14:30
DocScrutinizer05Neo900 anyway doesn't use SSI/HSI but USB to talk to a non-ISI convenient AT-modem14:31
DocScrutinizer05and dos1 did am awesome work to make the FSO stack already talk to Neo900's PHS8 modem 14:32
ysionneauah ok so you have an AT-command modem14:33
ysionneaunice14:33
ysionneauNeo900 does not have the same modem as N900?14:33
DocScrutinizer05sure, we couldn't get an ISI modem even when we would try to14:33
ysionneauah no sorry you reuse only the mechanical parts14:33
ysionneauAT interface is at least known and documented (for usualy commands)14:34
DocScrutinizer05BB5 is Nokia proprietary and not meant to get used as a component in non-Nokia devices14:34
DocScrutinizer05PHS AT  commandset has a "public" ~300 pages TRM14:35
DocScrutinizer05PHS814:35
DocScrutinizer05http://www.seapraha.cz/download/phs8-p_atc_v02003a.pdf14:35
DocScrutinizer05enjoy! :-)14:36
ysionneau:)14:36
ysionneaucool it's documented14:36
DocScrutinizer05it's a mandatory prerequisite for Neo900 to use it14:36
DocScrutinizer05no closed crap in Neo90014:36
ysionneauexcept some firmwares I guess but I don't know how it could be avoided14:37
ysionneauexcept spending a crazy amount of RE time14:37
DocScrutinizer05we *cannot* do it since... how would we get to know about the specs when they are not available?14:37
ysionneaulike some osmocom guys did14:37
DocScrutinizer05use closed crap that is14:38
ysionneauyep14:38
DocScrutinizer05otherwise we might use a lot of nice powerful chips which are available but no datasheets for them anywhere14:39
DocScrutinizer05useless for us14:39
DocScrutinizer05we don't want to, and we _vcannot_ use such obscure components14:39
ysionneausure14:40
ysionneauit's pretty obvious indeed14:40
DocScrutinizer05so you shouldn't feel surprised that Neo900 comes with a modem that has public AT specs14:41
DocScrutinizer05;-)14:41
ysionneausure14:41
DocScrutinizer05and given the state of the once semi-public docs for ISI and the fact that those always lacked large parts needed for e.g. GPS, we wouldn't want to use an ISI modem even if we could14:42
DocScrutinizer05the Nokia-owned server that once provided ISI specs is down since years14:43
DocScrutinizer05http://foolab.org/node/788814:45
DocScrutinizer05>>What I didn't notice initially was a semi-hidden link to the wireless modem API server.<< http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/14:46
DocScrutinizer05BWAHAHAHA kanjii now14:47
DocScrutinizer05it been a timeout for years14:47
whitequarkEvaluation of being fucked in front of husband of willow Tomoko appearances?Evaluation of being fucked in front of husband of willow Tomoko appearances?14:48
whitequarkI don't even want to know14:48
DocScrutinizer05https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wirelessmodemapi.com%2F&edit-text=&act=url14:49
DocScrutinizer05haha14:49
DocScrutinizer05the box finally got rooted, i'd say14:50
DocScrutinizer05Nokia has a tendency to not even know *which* boxes they own out there in "the wild internet"14:50
DocScrutinizer05nobody maintaining them, nobody has the credentials for that14:51
DocScrutinizer05nobody knows who (in Nokia) is paying for them14:51
DocScrutinizer05there are subsubsub-contractors setting up some web service for Nokia on one of a bazillion machines Nokia hires at akamai, and once the contract with the subsubsub expires, those poor boxen idle orphaned and nobody even notices14:53
DocScrutinizer05eventually /var/log/ fills up and the whole box goes defunct14:54
DocScrutinizer05which been the presumed state http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/ been in during last 2 or 3 years14:55
ysionneau-_-14:56
dos1wirelessmodemapi.com - creation date: 2014-01-1614:56
dos1so the domain has expired14:56
DocScrutinizer05quite possible14:57
DocScrutinizer05I bet the original poor box +still* is idling deaf and mute on its original IP14:58
DocScrutinizer05if you ever should be interested in the ISI specs from wirelssmodemapi, I got local copies here14:59
wpwrakphew. seems that at the last pipe cleaning they cheated us and didn't actually clean it. so it eventually got to narrow for the general abuse such things suffer, and then the flood started.17:35
whitequarkcover the waste drain pipes in PTFE!17:44
whitequarkactually, I wonder why isn't it actually done. prolly cost17:45
wpwrakhmmm, the building is some 45 years old. and we'd also have to consider what sort of stuff goes through these pipes - people don't exactly treat them kindly.18:40
wpwrakfrom diapers to sand and construction residues, pretty much everything has been found in there18:41
whitequarkI suppose daily treatment with abrasives won't fare on them lightly18:44
whitequarkI wonder why are you aware so well of the content of your sewer...18:44
wpwrakpeople talk :)18:47
DocScrutinizer05people are dumbasses18:50
DocScrutinizer05never heard of any such congestion, only thing we had here with our probably 100 year old installation been roots of trees coming in through cracks in the piping. Now everything is coated with a plastic inlay18:51
DocScrutinizer05I heard of idiots actiually abusing their sewer as garbage bin, but they usually change that habit rather sooner than later. Also usually a TV report showing rats coming up the toilet after you disposed food there helps to educated those morons18:56
wpwrakyes, some people say stupid things. but when the guys doing the cleaning tell their stories, i'd consider them to be based on real events :)19:05
wpwrakalso, don't expect people here to be as housebroken than in germany (in the same social class) :)19:06
wpwrakand yes, the "garbage disposal" issue is a big one. unfortunately, they keep on doing it. i mean, in a big building, who will ever find out, right ?19:07
whitequarkumm19:09
whitequarkgarbage into sewer? how do you even do it?19:09
wpwrakmaybe down the toilet19:10
wpwrakreliable sources once told me they had fished diapers out of the pipe ...19:11
wpwrakin this case, it was compounded by the pipe not having been cleaned. one theory is that this happened because drain doesn't connect directly to the vertical pipe but there are first two horizontal pipes that then form a t-junction19:14
wpwrakso the geniuses doing the scheduled maintenance may have sent their "probe" along the horizontal pipe only, kitchen to next kitchen, without ever having it go down the vertical part19:15
wpwrakand then, a few years later, the residues just get too much ...19:15
DocScrutinizer05I never actualy heard of such cleaning, except for those who abuse their toilet for disposing waste there19:22
DocScrutinizer05as a matter of fact, drainage pipe cleaning is a rarely done thing here in germany19:23
whitequarkmy pipes often clog with what is, I presume, hair19:23
DocScrutinizer05you can get away a hundered years without ever doing it19:23
whitequarka liter of concentrated NaOH poured down there fixes it well19:23
whitequark(which is what a "pipe cleaning solution" is, except like 100x cheaper)19:23
DocScrutinizer05yeah, hair sometimes is a problem directly at the sink19:24
DocScrutinizer05indeed pipe cleaner is 100* cheaper here than pure NaOH19:24
DocScrutinizer05also has metallic components, probably either Na or another alkali metal19:25
whitequarkwat?19:25
DocScrutinizer05yup19:25
whitequarkwhat has metallic components? O_o19:25
DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure about Na19:25
whitequarkare you crazy?19:25
whitequarkpure Na can exist under a layer of oil19:25
DocScrutinizer05but evidently grayish little metallic balls in it19:26
whitequarkand sure as hell if you pour something even remotely resembling Na into drain it will explode19:26
DocScrutinizer05which dissolve rapidly in water, creating H219:26
whitequarkI don't believe that19:26
whitequarkpipe cleaner is an aqueous solution of either acid or base19:27
whitequarkconcentrated19:27
wpwrak(pipe cleaning) don't forget that this is a large building. 14 floors (the top floor being duplex plus terraces), four apartments on each floor. puts some strain on the water system19:27
whitequarkno way something that survives in it as little metal balls will "dissolve rapidly in water"19:27
whitequarkthat's just absurd19:27
DocScrutinizer05http://www.scjproducts.info/corporate/include/pids_msds/documents/35_6884 00 null null Ablfu√üfrei Nov 17th 08 Rev 1 0.pdf  doesn'tmmention those metallic components any more (though NB 50% .. 75% NaOH) - however I seen them with my own eyes, several years ago19:30
wpwraka bit of lead to "oil" the pipes ;-)19:31
wpwrakwhile you're at it, make it radioactive, so make it easier to check that it was properly distributed19:31
wpwrak#s/so/to/19:31
DocScrutinizer05https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohrreiniger   >>Die Granulate bestehen neben den alkalischen Stoffen aus Nitrat, Natriumcarbonat und Aluminiumk√∂rnchen.<<19:32
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: "absurd" eh?19:34
DocScrutinizer05;-P19:34
DocScrutinizer05so I could've known about Al dissolving in alkaline medium19:35
DocScrutinizer05if only I properly checked that pipe cleaner composition19:35
DocScrutinizer05;-P19:36
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: still don't understand what the granules are made of19:37
whitequarkall instances of "granular drain cleaner" in english mean "dry NaOH shipped in granules"19:37
DocScrutinizer05MaOH, Na-carbonate, Na- nitrate, Al balls19:37
DocScrutinizer05NaOH19:37
whitequarkwait, is it dry?19:37
DocScrutinizer05sure19:38
whitequarkoooooh19:38
whitequarksure, then you could even have Na balls there, as NaOH is strongly hygroscopic and would keep moisture away19:38
whitequark(but it would still explode in contact with water, and be really damn expensive)19:38
DocScrutinizer05that's what I thought so far19:38
whitequarkdry drain cleaner isn't sold here at all, hence my error19:38
wpwrakexplosive pipe cleaning. i should suggest that :)19:38
DocScrutinizer05but thanks you I learned it's Al19:39
whitequarkeither liquid or gel19:39
Action: wpwrak wonders whether i should send a few liters of concentrated HCl down these pipes, as a preventive measure :)19:39
whitequarkwpwrak: HCl is sold as a drain cleaner too19:39
whitequarkdepends on the part of the world19:39
DocScrutinizer05I bet it's not sold in Russia thanks to frequent misuse causing severe problems in pipes19:40
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: unlikely19:40
wpwraki kinda wonder what these pipes can handle. i mean *something* must attack them, right ?19:40
wpwrakmaybe they wouldn't like peroxide so much ...19:40
whitequarkwpwrak: plastic pipes are very very chemically inert19:40
wpwrakthat's so pre-plastic :)19:40
whitequarkprolonged storage of acid in them, or maybe even bases, would surely make them brittle19:41
whitequarkor actually if it's HDPE with no plastifier, then not even that19:41
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: they are supposed to be either "Steingut" covered with a glss-like coating, or PVC19:41
whitequarkPVC, right, pipes aren't made of HDPE19:41
whitequarkI wonder why19:41
wpwrakwell, the ones in my apartment are plastic. the ones that went to the scrapyard were troubled-looking metal. and i don't think a lot of other people started their tenure with a thorough renovation :)19:42
DocScrutinizer05glass-like 19:42
DocScrutinizer05metal pipes? :-o19:42
DocScrutinizer05never ever used here for drain19:42
whitequarksure, that's been common until recently19:42
whitequarkand is not a good idea19:43
wpwrak"thermal bronce", no less, for fresh water :)19:43
DocScrutinizer05except directly under your bathtub etc19:43
wpwrakand some of them lead, of course19:43
whitequarkespecially not, say, bronze or lead pipes in a chemical lab where you work with azides19:43
DocScrutinizer05drain blackwater pipes are earthenware covered by glaze19:44
DocScrutinizer05or PVC19:44
DocScrutinizer05nowadays19:44
whitequarkearthenware?..19:45
DocScrutinizer05fresh water pipes been lead in very old days, then steel, now also PVC19:45
whitequarkfresh water pipes out of PVC is actually very recent development19:46
whitequarkI wonder if it's a good idea to subject PVC 24/7 to hot water19:46
DocScrutinizer05https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottery19:46
whitequarkoh19:46
wpwraknot sure if they're PVC. the sewage, yes, but the others look fancier19:46
DocScrutinizer05https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohr_(Technik)  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steingut  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinzeug  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abwasserrohr19:49
DocScrutinizer05fresh wate plastic pipes i'm not sure if they really are PVC, though I guess they are19:50
DocScrutinizer05OOOH they actually usees Grauguss for drainage pipes19:51
wpwrakin argentina, they use metal for this, and scrape off the rust every once in a while. and eventually, of course, the pipes get thin enough to break. that then goes on for another 5-10 years, until people finally decide they need to replace the system, not just the 50 cm involved in today's flooding.19:52
DocScrutinizer05http://www.greenpeace-stuttgart.de/themen/bauen/bleyer-fundament-04_gr.jpg19:53
DocScrutinizer05earthenware pipes19:53
wpwrakin the building where i lived before, about the same age, 20x3 apartments, so similar size, that had reached this terminal stage. there had been some water mishap almost every day. something like a year after i moved out, they finally decided to fix the mess.19:53
DocScrutinizer05https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grauguss#Eigenschaften  Fe-pipes19:55
wpwrakgrauguss (iron) sounds plausible. these pipes definitively show the sort of problems you'd expect from that19:55
whitequarkyep, cast iron19:55
DocScrutinizer05grauguss not supposed to rust19:56
DocScrutinizer05unless it's terribly crappy19:56
whitequarkI think here drainage pipes are made of cast iron too19:56
wpwraki've never seen anything that didn't clearly say "aluminium" in argentina that wouldn't start to rust instantly :)19:56
whitequarkhm no, in this house it's entirely PVC19:58
DocScrutinizer05notg even V2A?20:00
DocScrutinizer05:-o20:00
DocScrutinizer05where the heck are you living, and what's the composition of your atmosphere there?20:00
DocScrutinizer05*now* I *REALLY* start to worry about you living in 14th floor, and lower 7 floors are wet now ;-)20:01
whitequarkv2a?20:01
DocScrutinizer05https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V2A#V2A20:02
whitequarkoh, stainless steel20:02
DocScrutinizer05Cr-Ni-Fe20:02
DocScrutinizer05or this one: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V2A#WNr._1.4452_.28X13CrMnMoN18-14-3.29.2C_P200020:06
DocScrutinizer05or WNr. 1.4541 used in nuclear reactors, kill me if that one rusts in argentina20:08
DocScrutinizer05X6CrNiTi18-1020:09
DocScrutinizer05and of course the well known V4A20:10
DocScrutinizer05anyway the Grauguss pipes are supposed to not corrode *as long as nobody damages the carbon-passivated surface*20:14
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: I believe it's not about atmosphere of argentina20:14
whitequarkrather the truthiness of the claims about the sold material20:15
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: btw I just realized one thing, a MOSFET is as susceptible to induced voltage spikes as a relay20:15
DocScrutinizer05:nod: and probably about idiots thinking they can "fix" cast iron pipes by polishing them20:15
whitequarkso it hardly matters what I use in that regard20:15
DocScrutinizer05sure20:16
DocScrutinizer05FET even worse, since it for sure will break on first overvolatge20:16
whitequarkalso I think a circuit to reverse polarity is *way* simpler with relays20:16
whitequarklike, swap two wires coming to a DC (spindle) motor20:16
DocScrutinizer05probably20:16
whitequarkyou'd need... four mosfets?20:17
DocScrutinizer05yup20:17
whitequarkugh20:17
DocScrutinizer05or one relay20:17
whitequarkand relay will be much cheaper too20:17
DocScrutinizer05and you don't need to switch that relay under load20:17
DocScrutinizer05you still can controll the current with a mosfet20:17
whitequarkthere's already a mosfet doing the pwm20:17
DocScrutinizer05exactly20:18
whitequarkso... about the RC circuit you suggested, for suppressing spikes20:18
whitequarknot sure how it's supposed to work20:18
whitequarkbut I know I frequently seen ceramic caps on motor leads, in chinese toys especially20:18
DocScrutinizer05is that really difficult to understand?20:18
DocScrutinizer05those ceramic caps are for EMI20:19
whitequarkoh20:19
DocScrutinizer05usually soldered directly to the motor20:19
whitequarkyes20:19
whitequarkok, it's for different thing then20:19
DocScrutinizer05and only a few nF20:19
whitequarkthat's what puzzled me, no way such a tiny cap could suppress a discharge that sparks in air20:20
DocScrutinizer05nope, won't20:20
DocScrutinizer05https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzbeschaltung#Schutzbeschaltung_mit_RC-Glied here you are20:21
Action: ysionneau is reading Putin's French interview20:23
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: hm, designing it requires to know the inductance of the motor20:24
whitequarkhm, can't I just use a flyback diode instead?20:24
whitequarkwhat's the advantage of using an RC snubber as opposed to diode one?20:26
DocScrutinizer05yes, flyback diode been what I suggested first20:26
DocScrutinizer05for DC there's no advantage of a snubber20:27
whitequarkI see20:27
DocScrutinizer05diode will be simpler and more effective. snubber has a little bit faster switching20:27
DocScrutinizer05for AC you can't use diode20:27
DocScrutinizer05in former times diodes been expensive, particularly when they been resiliant to bursts20:28
DocScrutinizer05nowadays a diode that can take 100A for 1ms is a few pence20:29
DocScrutinizer05https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode20:32
DocScrutinizer05I caled it freewheeling and clamp diiode20:32
DocScrutinizer05advantage of a RC-snubber: can place it across the relay contacts, wil compensate for inductance in source as well20:34
DocScrutinizer05if your switch is *behind* the inductance (think: long cable to an engine) then your clamp diode will fail20:35
DocScrutinizer05R-C snubber: not20:35
paul_boddieI would have thought all the pipes in Argentina would have been made from silver. :-)20:38
DocScrutinizer05>>Total time for dissipation can vary, but it will usually last for a few milliseconds<< HAHA, I've seen (fat) relays taking seconds to disengage after the controlling DC got switched off20:39
DocScrutinizer05("fat" == 1200A on every of the 3 contacts20:40
DocScrutinizer05)20:40
DocScrutinizer05motors however evidently stop muuuuch faster with a clamp diode20:40
DocScrutinizer05since they produce electric energy from the rotation that in turn heats up the motor and the clamp diode20:42
DocScrutinizer05when you simply open circuit the motor, it can't feed the electric energy anywhere20:42
DocScrutinizer05which always makes me wonder how you actually can PWM-control a DC motor20:43
DocScrutinizer05isn't it extremely counter-productive when curent continues to flow around in a circle via the clamp diode, during the PWM off periods?20:44
DocScrutinizer05but then, when you think of a set where there's a huuuge inductivity/choke in series to the motor, then that series thing could easily work fine with a clamp diode. I guess the solution to this paradox is frequency: when motor stops to act like a inductivity and starts to create energy from motion instead20:46
whitequarkhmmmmmm20:46
whitequarkhang on20:46
whitequarknevermind20:47
DocScrutinizer05your PWM frequency must be high enoufgh so the inductivity of the motor is more "significant" than the ElectroMotoricForce20:48
whitequark(I think it's called "electromotive" in english)20:49
DocScrutinizer05once the current across the motor approaches that one the motor would generate from EMF alone, you're leaving the timespan where inductivity did its job20:49
whitequarkalso that would explain a few things about my PWM config and why it's shitty20:49
DocScrutinizer05prolly you're right on electromotive20:49
whitequarkugh, I really want a scope20:49
whitequarkbut spent all free money on EHSM tickets and hotel20:49
whitequarkalso I'm really excited about things that must be arriving to my place in ~1.5 weeks20:50
whitequarksome lumber, copper sheet, aluminium bar. gotta mill it all20:51
whitequarkI want to make some Al companion cubes20:51
whitequarkcould even try anodizing them20:51
DocScrutinizer05errwut?20:51
whitequarkerrwut about what?20:51
DocScrutinizer05Al companion cubes20:51
whitequarkyou didn't play Portal? O_o20:52
Action: DocScrutinizer05 wonders if that#s stuff for your guests20:52
whitequarkhttp://theportalwiki.com/wiki/Weighted_Companion_Cube20:52
whitequarkalso you really should play Portal, it's even available on Linux these days20:53
DocScrutinizer05I would feel scared by sentient cubes20:56
whitequarkit's not actually sentient, of course20:57
dos1hmm, designing Neo900 when being inspired by GLaDOS...20:57
DocScrutinizer05maybe rather play postal than portal20:57
DocScrutinizer05;-P20:57
DocScrutinizer05use cat as muffler (yes, for gun)20:57
whitequarkis postal that one where you use a cat as a silencer and piss on everything?20:57
dos1how feasible are neurotoxin dispensers in neo900?20:58
DocScrutinizer05actually pretty easy20:58
whitequarkI had no doubt20:58
DocScrutinizer05probaly it's sufficient to slightly warm up the plastic case X-P20:58
whitequarkhahaha20:59
dos1great ;)21:00
DocScrutinizer05actually the real challenge is to build Neo900 *without* any such dispensers21:00
whitequarkyou really do sound like GLaDOS21:00
DocScrutinizer05I also heard rumours that the bast mp3 players incl content you can find are actually part of such games ;-)21:03
DocScrutinizer05best*21:03
whitequarkthere are some in-game "radios" which actually broadcast SSTV21:04
DocScrutinizer05a friend of mine is listening to music from car radio of either GTA-dinno-which-integer or Postal, all day long21:04
whitequark(in portal) they were a part of an "alternate reality game" in preparation for portal 221:04
DocScrutinizer05or was it Portal, I really can't remember all that stuff and keep it apart21:05
dos1if you mean "good music in car radio", then that's probably GTA21:06
DocScrutinizer05anyway same friend asked for a Aperture Science  shower curtain for christmas21:06
dos1Portal had only rather ambient music, except its famous end song21:07
dos1Portal 2 had some funny concept of dynamic music, changing pitch and adding instruments depending on what you did in-game21:08
DocScrutinizer05I never touched any of that stuff, except (real!) pinball machines and "Elite!"21:09
dos1I suspect that you'd like the narration tone of Portal 1 ;)21:09
DocScrutinizer05which reminds me to get a fsckng windows machine now, for Braben's last newsest shite21:09
DocScrutinizer05I wonder if they are already selling this stuff, or still doing kickstarter suspense21:10
paul_boddieCan't really believe Braben is still doing Elite stuff.21:11
DocScrutinizer05http://elite.frontier.co.uk/21:11
DocScrutinizer05Latest News21:11
DocScrutinizer05Updated 30th May 201421:11
paul_boddieI mean that he's obsessed with it. Apart from detours like doing Zarch/Virus.21:11
DocScrutinizer05Elite: Dangerous Premium Beta is Live!21:11
DocScrutinizer05I guess *I* ust be obsessed to even *consider* getting a windows machine just for that21:15
whitequarkhm, actually I wonder if I could even sell those cubes on ebay21:15
whitequarkthere seem to be a lot of plushy ones but not really any metal ones21:15
DocScrutinizer05Minimum recommended hardware specification: Direct X 11 Quad Core CPU ( 4 x 2Ghz is a reasonable minimum) 2 GB System RAM (more is always better) DX 10 hardware GPU with 1GB video ram     Nvidia GTX 260     ATI 4870HD Internet connection21:16
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: why bother with windows machine?21:17
whitequarkI haven't seen a game that wouldn't run with $ wine game.exe21:17
DocScrutinizer05haha, see above21:17
whitequarkso?21:18
whitequarkthey usually are more performant on linux than windows, even, despite the "emulation"21:18
DocScrutinizer05I failed epically to even make elite:last-frontier run in a dos emu21:18
whitequarkdosbox does the trick in basically all cases21:19
DocScrutinizer05it didn't for me21:20
whitequarkweird21:20
DocScrutinizer05yeah, my game-mad friend (the postal/portal/GTA one) who also incidentally is a professional sysop also was quite puzzled why it doesn't work for me21:21
DocScrutinizer05but that tought me to not run games in emulators21:21
DocScrutinizer05it turns out that nobody who suggests such thing actually ever tried his own dogfood21:22
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: I did, for lots and lots of games21:23
whitequarkhence the surprise21:23
whitequarkboth wine and dosbox, dozens with each21:23
whitequarkwith very few problems and hardly any unfixable with a single google query21:24
whitequarkwell, at worst you can use virtualbox or qemu for DOS stuff21:24
whitequarkI even played DirectX (2D) games emulated in virtualbox21:24
DocScrutinizer05well, my experience regarding that is 10 to 15 years old, so maybe not actual anymore, I admit21:25
whitequarka lot has changed since that21:25
whitequarkwine has *massively* improved21:25
DocScrutinizer05heard that, yes21:25
whitequarkalthough I think it still can't run photoshop21:26
DocScrutinizer05haha21:26
whitequarkthat really says things about the quality of code in photoshop21:26
whitequarkand the absurd measures the windows team went to ensure compatibility with megatons of such shit21:26
DocScrutinizer05would be a dream to play elite:dangerous on my usual workstation, but then, this station has zilch proper graca21:26
whitequarkwhat's the graphics card you have?21:27
DocScrutinizer05I guess I need a proper gamer station for that21:27
whitequarkI actually tried Portal, which is kinda graphics heavy, on *integrated intel graphics*21:27
whitequarkit went ok21:27
whitequarknot really "omg this is beautiful" but more than playable21:27
DocScrutinizer05then I will be fine with it, since that's exactly what I got here21:27
whitequarkbut i915 stopped being shit only since ivy bridge, 1/2 shit in sandy bridge21:28
whitequarkbefore that it's only sufficient to scroll your terminal or something21:28
Action: DocScrutinizer05 tries hard to recall what is in there21:28
whitequarklspci?21:29
dos1I have ivy bridge and both portals work fine on it21:30
dos1well, on full hd settings have to be quite moderate, but on 1366x768 laptop screen it runs quite smoothly even on quite high settings21:31
Action: whitequark has 1920x1080 screen21:32
DocScrutinizer05"driver: i915"21:32
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: nonono21:32
whitequarkshow us the cpuinfo21:32
DocScrutinizer05which one?21:32
whitequarksandy/ivy bridge has integrated i915, hence the revision applies to both cpu and graphics21:32
whitequarkmodel name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3517U CPU @ 1.90GHz21:32
whitequarkthis line21:32
DocScrutinizer05I5-345021:33
dos1i5-3210M here21:33
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: that's more than sufficient21:33
DocScrutinizer05damn, and I have 4 of those ;-P21:36
whitequarkwell, you have one graphics core...21:37
whitequarkintel even stopped calling them CPUs and started calling them SoCs somewhere at sandy bridge or so21:37
whitequarkor maybe since haswell?21:37
DocScrutinizer05wtf? >>flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts 21:38
DocScrutinizer05dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase smep erms<<21:38
dos1wonderful world of x86 :]21:38
DocScrutinizer05lol21:38
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: well, the alternative is the ARM insanity21:38
whitequarkwhoever the fuck decided to call processor families ARM# and architecture families ARMv# should be shot21:39
DocScrutinizer05yup21:39
whitequarkI used to be *so confused* by that shit21:39
whitequark>rdrand21:40
whitequarkaka NSA-backdoored HWRNG21:40
DocScrutinizer05o.O21:40
whitequarkit's not known for certain, but there's some strong evidence that it's broken in a way that could have been malicious21:41
whitequarkso it is advised to never ever use RDRAND21:41
DocScrutinizer05dafaq! kill it with fire, err xrays, heavy ion beam, or whatever21:41
DocScrutinizer05well, i hope linux kernel devs heard about it ;-)21:41
whitequarkhttp://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/10283/could-rdrand-intel-compromise-entropy21:42
whitequarkquoting Torvalds: "GTFO, you don't understand what you're doing"21:43
Action: DocScrutinizer05 smiles at that _very_ familiar "new" little icon down in systray21:43
DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/08/plasma-desktoprA1787.png21:43
whitequarkwhat's that icon?21:43
whitequark(RDRAND) see also: http://blog.jim.com/crypto/rdrand.html21:43
DocScrutinizer05twinklephone21:44
whitequarkoh, no, dont' see that link21:44
whitequarkit's bullshit21:44
DocScrutinizer05my stepbaby21:44
whitequarkoh, interesting; *if* RDRAND is indeed backdoored, you can make /dev/random return anything you want on <=3.2.13, proof: https://twitter.com/DefuseSec/status/40897522216379596921:45
DocScrutinizer05ohFSCK!21:46
whitequarkthere's some contention on whether it still applies if you have other entropy sources21:47
whitequarkbut I would just upgrade to >3.2.1321:47
dos1didn't you mean 3.12.3?21:48
whitequarkhm, probably21:48
wpwrak(carbon-passivated surface) you must be kidding ;-) cleaning of drain pipes consists of sending down a rotating metal cable that will "drill" through the obstruction. anything "surface" will not be around for very long :)23:54
whitequarkI think cast iron doesn't have a passivated surface, rather bulk23:55
wpwrak(stainless steel) well, i do actually have one piece of that. it's a cover around my water heater. and this one has indeed resisted the elements rather well so far (~4 years). of course, this is a custom-made piece.23:56
wpwrakyes, bulk pretty much seems to be the concept there - don't fight the corrosion, just make the pipe walls thick enough that it will take a long time to eat through them23:57
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