#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2014-05-18

wpwrakhmm, given that silicone is flexible, why can't we have chips you can deform and bend ? would make layouts so much easier ...05:23
whitequarkyou should post that on some of the newfangled "maker" forums05:24
whitequarkdon't forget popcorn05:24
wpwrak;-))05:24
Action: whitequark sighs05:44
whitequarkI am amazed at this argument parsing library (cmdliner; http://erratique.ch/software/cmdliner/)05:44
whitequarkon one hand, it's a really great little library, which even autogenerates man pages for you instead the usual pitiful --help text05:45
whitequarkon the other hand, I literally had much easier time implementing a compiler than interfacing with this goddamn option parsing library05:45
whitequarkwhat drugs exactly do you need to be on to make an interface *that* esoteric?05:46
wpwrakuse getopt(3)05:55
wpwrak?05:55
whitequarkwell, I'm not writing it in C ;) there's builtin Arg, which is kind of like getopt05:56
whitequarkit also sucks, which is the reason I was looking for something better05:56
wpwrak(not using C) ah well, master of your own doom ;-)05:56
whitequarkmeh, C needs to die already. I will certainly contribute to its demise in any ways I can05:57
whitequarkfirst and foremost by not writing more code in it...05:57
whitequarkwhen Rust releases their 1.0, there will finally be an answer to everyone out there who wants to program embedded, kernels and other weird things with something sane (and also for those with terminal OCD and a burning need to micromanage resources, which is way wider)05:59
whitequarkRust is pretty cool. it's memory-safe, but has an escape hatch which allows you to do any dirty tricks you want06:00
wpwrakas long as they copied the only good feature of C++ ... namely that you can just write ordinary C, and ignore fad and fashion :)06:01
whitequarkthe memory management is a combination of ownership (essentially, malloc+free, except the compiler makes sure you don't leak memory, use-after-free, use unallocated memory, have race conditions and a few more things) and strong/weak reference counting for cyclic data structures like graphs06:01
whitequarkC++ isn't backwards-compatible with C06:02
whitequarkalso, if something is a fad, then C is. it was never designed or had any real thought put in it, it just... caught on06:02
whitequarkcertainly like a fashion. and we all see what happens when engineering is driven by cargo cult06:03
wpwrak(compatible) well, almost, if you avoid the new keywords06:04
whitequarkoh, there's *plenty* of quirks06:04
whitequarkoff the top of my head: VLAs of C99, initializers06:04
wpwraki guess anything new that happens in C will eventually find its way into C++. just like C picked up a few items from C++06:06
whitequarknope, the committee already decided that it won't happen06:06
wpwraki see a gnu extension coming ;-)06:07
whitequarkew06:07
whitequark"gnu extension" is the politically correct name for "portability nightmare"06:07
wpwraknaw. it's just a little bit more work for the implementers of other compilers. well, not all the gnu extensions make it to the others but quite a few gnu things do/did.06:08
wpwrakalso anyone who wants bragging rights for being able to compile the linux kernel better makes sure his compiler it sufficiently gnu-ish06:09
whitequarkthe linux kernel can't be compiled by anything except gcc at the moment06:09
whitequarknot even clang (yet)06:09
wpwraki think intel can compile it06:09
wpwrakclang ought to be very close06:10
whitequarkquite a bit of that is due to some of the more insane gnu extensions, e.g. register pinning or constexpr evaluation06:10
whitequark(which are only present in gcc because gcc is a ball of incoherent spaghetti)06:10
whitequarkclang *is* very close, but not there06:10
whitequarkicc can compile it without source modifications? a bit hard to believe06:10
wpwraki think they did it at last once. but i don't know if it was vanilla or with some minor editing06:11
whitequarkwith some minor editing (and certain loss of efficiency, I presume) you can compile it with a bunch of compilers, yes06:12
Luke-Jrwhitequark: C++11 adds the C99 features06:35
whitequarkLuke-Jr: but not VLAs, afaik06:37
viricwhitequark: ext4 on mtdblock wasn't a bad idea11:29
viricwhitequark: the rockchip people implemented a FTL inside the mtd device driver. So the mtd sees logic addresses11:30
larsccrazy stuff11:31
viricright11:31
virickernel boots...11:34
viricfinally I'm making progress, having a serial port connected.11:34
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Fixed compilation with GCC 4.9 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/9e113d819:19
whitequarkwpwrak: how do you call a string (like in puts("hello world")) in german?22:46
whitequarkZeichenfolge ?22:46
wpwrakif you work for Siemens, Zeichenkette. else, String :)22:55
whitequarkhow about an integer? (Anzahl?) a map (like hashtable)? (Karte?) a list? (Liste?)22:59
whitequarkimagine a programming language where all types are compound German nouns. "Leere Bearbeiten(Anzahlzeichenkettekarteliste xs) { ... }"23:02
whitequarkthat would be so awesome23:02
wpwrakGanzzahl23:03
wpwrak(for integer)23:03
wpwraklist -> Liste23:03
wpwrakmap -> Karte ... but i wouldn't know a translation for hash table23:03
whitequarkKarte sounds fine, yeah23:03
whitequarkhm, I like how descriptive "Zeichenkette" is23:07
wpwrak(german programming language) call it "Msd (Man spricht deutsh)"23:09
wpwrakin reference to this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095579/23:10
whitequark:D23:10
whitequarkwpwrak: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashtabelle23:14
wpwrakStreuwerttabelle, geil ;)23:15
whitequarkgeil?..23:15
whitequarkoh23:16
wpwrak"geil" means "horny", but is commonly used in slang for "great", "cool"23:17
whitequarkyes, I got it eventually, but that made for some very confusing moments23:17
whitequark"what *is* it with wpwrak and hashtables?!"23:18
wpwrak"Streuwerttabelle" is what you use if it's vitally important that nobody understands what you're explaining. e.g., if you file a patent in .de, that's when such words will be very useful.23:18
whitequark"Streuspeicherverfahren" for hashing is pretty cool23:23
whitequarkyou could conceivably implement algorithms by naming them23:25
wpwrakdefinitely. since nobody would understand their purpose anyway, you could do whatever you want23:28
--- Mon May 19 201400:00

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