#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2014-04-14

DocScrutinizer05Fsck U Putin!17:33
DocScrutinizer05I think the Ukrainian Government should ask Nato for help, just like those speznaz forces in eastern cities ask Putin to send (more, official) troops17:35
DocScrutinizer05if they did and Nato (or any arbitrary EU country with strong military forces, e.g. France, Germany, UK) would actually send massive contingents to Ukraine, then Putin would rethink his tactics, since the net result then was the exact opposite of what he tries to achieve17:39
ysionneauyes but even if they did, I don't think France or Germany would send any troop anywhere17:40
ysionneauthey don't even shout at poutine17:40
ysionneauthey won't send troops against him17:40
DocScrutinizer05blue helmet peace forces with a strong mandate, to enforce peace in all Ukrainian regions ntil proper elections done17:40
ysionneauand since Russia is in Security council at NATO , any resolution against poutine at Nato is impossible17:41
larscwe obviously don't want to freeze during the winter ;)17:41
ysionneauyes larsc :)17:41
DocScrutinizer05ysionneau: WUT?17:41
DocScrutinizer05russia a member of Nato now?17:41
ysionneauRussia has "cancel vote" power in NATO no?17:42
ysionneauah no17:42
ysionneauI'm mixing with UN17:42
larscnato is the anti-russia17:42
DocScrutinizer05yeah, thought as much. My fault since I mentioned blue helmets17:43
DocScrutinizer05which *are* UN17:43
ysionneauyep ok17:43
DocScrutinizer05but I think UN mandates can get decided upon without Russia agreeing17:43
larscpoland actually already ask for NATO help, because they fear they are next17:44
DocScrutinizer05and if not, then so what. We had no UN mandate for Libya17:44
ysionneauDocScrutinizer05: they can without russia agreeing, but I think they can't with russia disagreement17:44
ysionneauyes not a problem17:44
ysionneauyou will just not send UN forces17:45
ysionneauyou will send something else17:45
DocScrutinizer05I'm afraid we won't17:45
DocScrutinizer05EU are sissies17:45
ysionneaubut I really don't think that France or Germany would move a single finger17:45
ysionneauit's not in their geopolitical interest17:45
ysionneau(aka gaz)17:45
DocScrutinizer05while i#m absolutely sure a peace mission would be the way better idea than embargos against russia17:46
dos1[19:44] <larsc> poland actually already ask for NATO help, because they fear they are next17:46
whitequarka peace mission?17:46
dos1Poland is in NATO, so attacking Poland means attacking NATO17:46
dos1a bit different situation than with Ukraine17:47
DocScrutinizer05it's much harder to argue for Putin why Russia will stop gas when a EU peace corps moves into Ukraine when asked to do so17:47
ysionneausending military for peace always appeared strange to me17:47
ysionneaubut I guess I'm too naive17:47
DocScrutinizer05than when EU announces embargo against Russia17:47
larscysionneau: we bring you peace and democracy ;)17:48
DocScrutinizer05well, you can either send military or hores to stop enemy military17:48
DocScrutinizer05whores even17:48
ysionneauyeah bringing peace and democracy with guns, it feels so old school colonialist shit17:48
whitequarkor destroy them from within17:48
ysionneaulike EU did in Africa17:48
ysionneauor USA17:48
whitequarklike USA did on middle east numerous times17:49
larscysionneau: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3325#comic17:49
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: too slow17:49
ysionneauwe, bright white guys, are bringing science, democracy religion and almost intelligence to you poor dumbass black retarted people17:49
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: well, there's a thing that would work17:49
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: close russian borders *from outside*.17:49
ysionneauand we take some bits of natural resources as a "thank you"17:49
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: btw how's your local front? already first casualities during demonstartions for truth in Russian media?17:50
whitequarklenta.ru (the leading outlet) has resigned in its entirety a few months ago17:50
whitequarkI'm not sure there's anything else left17:50
ysionneaularsc: ahah :)17:50
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: (close from outside) right now, most of the dissenters who are actually capable of doing anything just face the fact and decide to flee17:51
whitequarkif they could not, however...17:51
DocScrutinizer05you think that's clever?17:51
whitequarkin what way?17:52
whitequarkI mean, it does make everyone else look like a bunch of dicks17:52
whitequarkbut it's probably the fastest non-nuclear-winter-causing way to end putin's regime17:52
DocScrutinizer05to "imprison" opposition and dissidents into the kingdom of evil17:52
DocScrutinizer05yeah, actually makes us all look like dickheads17:53
whitequarkit would probably wise to phrase it smth like "let those most qualified to deal with evil themselves"17:53
whitequarkbut yea17:53
whitequarkdepends on what is more important to you, not looking bad or dethroning putin :)17:54
DocScrutinizer05I nice Machiavellian idea, but pretty hard to communicate17:54
DocScrutinizer05tbh I don't give a shit about putin, as long as he keeps his sticky fingers with him and not in foreign affairs17:55
DocScrutinizer05the rest is actually up to the russian people17:55
larsche probably thinks the same about you17:56
DocScrutinizer05I however think we should beat his fingers really hard when he tries to simply grab neighbor countries "because he can"17:56
whitequark"the rest is actually up to DocScrutinizer05's people" ?17:56
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: isn't that basically how all international politics is done"17:57
whitequarkyou do shit because you can, and then try to wrap it into whatever "laws" are convenient17:57
whitequarkI guess EU decided that the cost of war is higher than potential loss from annexion of Crimea/UA17:58
DocScrutinizer05that's basically what everybody thinks, worldwide17:58
whitequarknot entirely unlike to NK17:59
DocScrutinizer05a shame it's the standard equation used to decide about any engagement17:59
DocScrutinizer05but actually I think an embargo by EU to russia is *more expensive* for EU than sending peace troops to Ukraine18:00
whitequarkI wonder. what does EU export to RU?18:00
DocScrutinizer05err, a lot18:00
larscor rather train tracks18:02
DocScrutinizer05the whole embargo idea is based on the assumption that Putin would care about oligarchs. He prolly doesn't18:02
whitequark*of course* he doesn't. he only cares about himself.18:02
whitequarkI wonder what moron thought otherwise18:02
whitequarkand why didn't merkel slap him silly18:02
larscbecause of his dogs18:02
DocScrutinizer05why doesn't somebody slap merkel18:03
larscmerkel is afraid of dogs and putin always brings a big dog when they meet18:03
DocScrutinizer05merkel is a fool pretending to be a sock puppet - or the other way around18:04
larscbtw. what's in it for russia?18:04
larsctaking over ukraine18:05
whitequarkwell, you can't improve economics. what else can you do to keep yourself on the throne?18:05
DocScrutinizer05warshaw pact reloaded18:05
DocScrutinizer05err, USSR reloaded18:06
DocScrutinizer05larsc: actually Ukraine becoming a success story destabilizes Russia and particularly Putin's power a lot18:10
DocScrutinizer05so Putin's plan is not exactly to swallow Ukraine. It's absolutely sufficient when Ukraine implodes as result from the maidan demonstrations18:11
whitequarkthat too18:11
larscso just some powerplay to strengthen his position inside russia?18:13
DocScrutinizer05internal problems for putin already start to become obvious - just today (aiui) there been a rather huge demonstration in Moscow against that government directed media propaganda in Russia18:13
DocScrutinizer05larsc: first instance yes18:13
DocScrutinizer05putin tries to roll back all that glasnost and dunnowhat "shit" that happened to Russia/USSR18:14
DocScrutinizer05he's pretty pissed about that "democratic" stuff, and doesn't like the fact that the president isn't nominated for lifetime anymore18:16
whitequarkugh. USA DoE revoked access for all russian scientists18:19
DocScrutinizer05well, the russian activity of last ~3 days *will* cause reactions. Much more than only this18:21
DocScrutinizer05still I guess Putin gives a flying F about it18:22
DocScrutinizer05in Donyezk a guy in military uniform to local police lined up in front of him: "I'm <general asshole> from the Russian military, and this guy here is your new police president"18:23
DocScrutinizer05actually every single word of Putin and his sock puppets is a lie.18:31
DocScrutinizer05carefully listening to him and then assuming he will - always - do the exact opposite of what he's telling is probbaly the more reasonable approach18:32
DocScrutinizer05Putin: "Russia will of course continue to deliver gas to EU as usual. However there's a risk of Ukraine stealing gas from that pipeline for themselves"  Translation: "we will reduce gas deliveries and blame Ukraine for the deficit"18:34
DocScrutinizer05Putin: "we don't interfere with inner ukrainian affairs. that's not our interest" translation: "we will make sure the troops we send will not publicly state they are russian troops"18:35
DocScrutinizer05Putin: "I'm worried about the safety of <russian> citizens in $* in Ukraine"  Translation: "we will make sure that the troops we send will act in a scary and aggressive way against any pro-ukrainian people"18:39
wpwrakguess he was exposed to too much western propaganda ;)18:39
wpwrak"we don't interfere" = "we're just returning fire when attacked by terrorists"18:41
DocScrutinizer05Putin: "Ukraine government are fascists"  Translation: "though soon Russia/me will rule all of Ukraine by a totalitarian system of authorities and executive, I'm not a fascist, I only use their methods"18:42
larscor when we "find" WMDs ;)18:42
DocScrutinizer05wasn't it Putin who said "Bush been an idiot. *I* would've found those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!"18:44
DocScrutinizer05two soldiers moving into building with one large brown box. 10 minutes pass by. Same 2 soldiers leave building with two smaller green boxes, showing them to TV reporters. They open the two boxes, some 2 technically looking devices can be seen inside. The soldiers explain that these are the terribly dangerous new atomic devices they looked for18:48
DocScrutinizer05they close the boxes, pay the reporters, and drive away direction next whore house18:49
DocScrutinizer05with the terribly dangerous atomic devices18:49
DocScrutinizer05somebody inspecting the building finds a huge brown box with a writing: "US Army. Educational material"18:53
DocScrutinizer05depending on scenario and participants, make the writing "Russian Army"18:55
DocScrutinizer05for something completely different: I wanna cp -a a complete directory /x/ to /a/x/. When I do 'cp -a /x/ /a/x/ first time, I get exactly what I want. Second time though I get a result of /a/x/x/18:59
DocScrutinizer05what am I doing wrong?19:00
DocScrutinizer05(sorry for ultra-noob question, I'm not really at level with my mental powers today)19:00
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: try slashing the slash, so to say19:01
whitequarkcp -a /x /a/19:01
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I think I already tried that19:01
whitequarkor cp -a /x /a/x19:01
DocScrutinizer05might try that19:01
dos1the first one19:02
dos1second one behaves like with slash at the end19:03
DocScrutinizer05cp -al /etc/hildon-application-manager/ /etc/enable-catalogs/${2}/etc/hildon-application-manager/19:03
dos1cp -al /etc/hildon-application-manager /etc/enable-catalogs/${2}/etc/19:03
DocScrutinizer05http://privatepaste.com/12d4cd1c9d  :-/19:11
Action: DocScrutinizer05 slaps forehead19:12
DocScrutinizer05I prolly should stay away from such demanding tasks today19:13
DocScrutinizer05http://privatepaste.com/c0e488ec40  \o/19:15
DocScrutinizer05dos1: you guess what i'm planning to do?19:20
DocScrutinizer05rm -R /etc/enable-catalogs/all/etc/apt/apt  :-/19:25
DocScrutinizer05ohmy, will get it right eventually ;)19:25
DocScrutinizer05OOOH, Ukrainian president asks for blue helmets :-)19:56
DocScrutinizer05ysionneau: seems you're right, Russia can veto that19:57
DocScrutinizer05and most prolly will, I'm just wondering which bullshit reasoning Putin will come up this time to justify his aggravating approach19:58
DocScrutinizer05how would I make sure $1 only consists of characters?20:00
DocScrutinizer05no bashisms20:01
larscthere is also [[:alnum:]]20:29
DocScrutinizer05I'm sceptical20:31
whitequarkit's PCRE20:34
larscalnum is acutally part of posix20:45
larsc\S is PCRE20:47
whitequarkohhh right, I meant posix20:52
DocScrutinizer05going to be a freelancer! :-D20:56
Action: DocScrutinizer05 does a dance of joy20:56
whitequarkoh? what about neo900?20:57
wpwraki think the two will be intimately related :)20:58
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: congratulations ! :)20:58
DocScrutinizer05Lawrow reminds me to somebody... dang what been his name? "The americans are screaming in horror and flee the almighty iraqi army"22:43
DocScrutinizer05just the background of the inverwiew back when was more funny iirc, since it didn't exactly show what this dude was talking about22:44
DocScrutinizer05Saddam's maehrchenonkel22:47
DocScrutinizer05Lawrow is Putin's Maehrchenonkel22:47
wpwrakyeah, "comical ali". he was great.22:51
wpwrakhttp://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/  you have to scroll down to "-- TREASURY OF DEATHLESS QUOTES --"22:57
DocScrutinizer05"I can say, and I am responsible for what I am saying, that they have started to commit suicide under the walls of Baghdad. We will encourage them to commit more suicides quickly."23:07
DocScrutinizer05yeah, sounds about correct23:07
wpwraksome people remarked that, in hindsight, he was more often right than wrong. see the reader comments on  http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/19/17374006-iraq-war-10-years-later-where-are-they-now-mohammed-saeed-al-sahaf-baghdad-bob?lite23:12
whitequarkcomparing iraq with usa is absurd23:14
DocScrutinizer05he had true moments though: >>"That bastard the American Minister of Defense Rumsfeld, and I won't say shamelessly, because they don't know what shame means. These are criminals. The whole word can hear the warning sirens. This criminal sitting in the White House is a pathetic criminal and his Defense Minister deserves to be beaten. These criminals lie to the world because they are criminals by nature and conditioning. They consider 23:15
DocScrutinizer05this a military site! Shame on you! You will forever be shamed! You have ruined the reputation of the American people in the most terrible way! Shame on you! And we will destroy you!"<<   except the very last sentence23:15
DocScrutinizer05golden! >>"Yes, the american troops have advanced further. This will only make it easier for us to defeat them"<<23:23
wpwrakcan't say he was wrong about that. instead of iraqis having to travel to the US to kill US-americans, they got them air-delivered en masse basically right at their doorstep23:30
DocScrutinizer05hey, how can you defeat somebody at his home?23:31
DocScrutinizer05he didn't say "this allows us" but "this makes it easier". Though this is correct formal logic, it is nonsense in a conversation beween humans23:33
DocScrutinizer05I can even make it nonsense in formal logic: opportunity to defeat X on X's own ground: 0. multiplication factor for "easier": N. 0 * N = 023:34
DocScrutinizer05unless my idea of what defeat means isn't correct23:36
wpwrak"how can you defeat somebody at his home?" you mean "at your home" ? well, russia pulled that one off with napoleon and then again with the nazis who were apprently too superior to study that particular piece of history. of course, slightly different circumstances. i'm sure winter is nicer in iraq than somewhere in a trench in russia.23:36
DocScrutinizer05sorry, probbaly my semantics of "defeat" were incorrect. Somewhere closer to "defend"23:37
DocScrutinizer05"to defeat": "to stop somebody's advance or victory"23:38
DocScrutinizer05^^^ incorrect, I guess23:38
wpwrakyeah, depends on the granularity. if you talk about individual soldiers, he was quite right. if you talk about the US forces in general, not so much23:39
DocScrutinizer05in my definition "to defeat X at home" been analog to "stop a standing car"23:40
DocScrutinizer05seems I have to completely redifine the meaning of "to defeat" for my vocabulary23:41
DocScrutinizer05shit happens with foreign languages, particularly when the term isn't technical23:43
wpwrakah, that sounds like an odd definition indeed :)23:50
DocScrutinizer05on the bright side I know what "eventually" means23:54
wpwrakyeah, that trips a lot of german speakers :)23:56
DocScrutinizer05well, I just notice that neither "to fend" nor "to feat" are in my passive vocabulary. So no surprise I misinterpreted "to defeat"23:57
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