#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2014-04-13

wpwraki hope that car was stolen :) imagine the surprise for the thief ...00:02
DocScrutinizer05(notice sun) I have a mental concept of my geometrical position on the globe00:02
DocScrutinizer05alas not really, the automatic "exploded" on the highway, after some gashaed at the pitstop managed to mix some water into the automatic oil00:03
DocScrutinizer05indeed, much fun when suddenly your automatic oil completely abandons the gear00:05
wpwrakdid they pay ?00:05
DocScrutinizer05I couldn't prove their fault00:05
wpwraksuspected so :(00:05
DocScrutinizer05though it been obvious, it happened immediately after they had a motor cleaning done to that car00:05
wpwrakmoral: just leave the motor dirty :)00:06
DocScrutinizer05what are those 100bar things caled?00:06
DocScrutinizer05you should be really really careful with them anyway00:07
DocScrutinizer05hochdruckdampfstrahlreiniger or somesuch00:07
wpwraklooks peaceful00:09
DocScrutinizer05you probably can cut stuff with that00:09
DocScrutinizer05just needs another nozzle00:10
DocScrutinizer05and that huge round yellow thing for cleaning the floor can actually eat your stone floor00:10
DocScrutinizer05for the Ford automatic no 160bar were needed, it had a pretty silly ventilation tube at top that only had a ridiculous "hat" on to avoid water simply dropping in00:12
DocScrutinizer05point a water jet at that from below, damage done00:12
DocScrutinizer05when the oil in automatic reaches 100°C...00:13
wpwraksmart design00:15
wpwrakthey should build airplanes. big ones, with lots of passengers00:16
DocScrutinizer05I thought they build moon rockets now ;-)00:16
wpwrakpoor moon00:17
DocScrutinizer05I alluded a not exactly PC joke00:18
DocScrutinizer05warum sind die Tuerken noch nicht auf dem Mond gelandet?  Weil Ford noch keine Mondraketen baut00:18
DocScrutinizer05prolly very local specific00:19
DocScrutinizer05unless Ford is the fav car brand of the turkish worldwide00:20
wpwrakis the implied context that they prefer ford ? or that they steal them ?00:22
DocScrutinizer05this joke must be damn old. Meanwhile I think BMW is their fav car00:22
DocScrutinizer05in the 1970 Ford been *the* car for the average turkish family in Germany00:23
wpwrakheh :)00:23
DocScrutinizer05and Ford Transit for turkish business, whatever that is00:23
wpwrakhow things change, in a few years it'll be "why are the germans not on the moon yet ? because new trabant don't make rockets"00:24
wpwrak(and all the "good" cars come from china)00:24
DocScrutinizer05I think in the 90s with the "2nd generation" BMW became the car of choice00:24
wpwrakthey're a decent enough choice00:24
DocScrutinizer05yeah, except that the BMW motor absolutely doesn't like high RPM when not warm yet, that's why all those turkish BMW always had a blue cloud of smoke behind them00:25
DocScrutinizer051602 1802 200200:26
wpwrakoh, oldish :)00:27
DocScrutinizer05but that's been in the 80s00:28
wpwrakis 1802 the model year ?00:28
DocScrutinizer05in the 90s it been newer models, with basically same motor "problem"00:28
DocScrutinizer05well, you need to swap the 0 and 8, then it might fit00:29
DocScrutinizer05yeah, this one is the 90s "turkish" model00:31
DocScrutinizer05same M10 engine00:33
DocScrutinizer05same altoelvergaser00:33
wpwrakmine's an E3600:33
wpwrak1996 and apparently well treated by its prior owner(s)00:35
DocScrutinizer05oops missed to add the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series_(E30) to >>yeah, this one is the 90s "turkish" model<<00:38
wpwrakthe E30 look nice enough00:39
DocScrutinizer05yeah, probably I mixed it up with E2100:40
DocScrutinizer05the E30 has no M10 engine00:42
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I also had an E36 iirc00:43
DocScrutinizer05bought it from a turkish friend ;-)00:43
DocScrutinizer05quite a nice car, except you couldn't drive slower than 20km/h. And eventually the rear shock absorber broke out ot the mounting point in trunk when I drove down a borderstone00:45
DocScrutinizer05prolly they replaced the shock absorber by a simple steel pipe00:46
DocScrutinizer05the thing had a ground clearance of ~3cm00:47
DocScrutinizer05had it ~5 months before it broke00:47
wpwrakyou go through your cars quickly00:50
wpwrakand < 20 km/h shouldn't be a problem. the alfa 33 i had in .ch was a tricky beast for slow speeds. especially parking on a hill was messy. no torque at low revolutions. 1.7 l engine but some 130 PS00:53
wpwrakhandled great, though. very sporty.00:54
DocScrutinizer05yeah, this BMW had quote some HP but a sports gear or dunno what00:54
DocScrutinizer051st gear was already capable of 70km/h or somesuch00:55
DocScrutinizer05and with no gaspedal at all the car ran faster than 20km/h in 1st gear00:56
DocScrutinizer05at some 900RPM00:56
DocScrutinizer05of course the clutch was quite tricky too00:57
DocScrutinizer05had a characteristic like a clickdisk switch in a keyboard00:58
DocScrutinizer05try to press a clickdisk switch halfway00:59
DocScrutinizer05I wonder wtf is "idle factor"01:02
wpwrak20 km/h in idle is a little odd indeed :)01:03
Web-aptosid876_DocScrutinizer05: hows your stress level?01:30
DocScrutinizer05though, that might be missleading01:41
DocScrutinizer05objectively there's quite a number of stress factors pending to get dealt with01:43
DocScrutinizer05but I try to believe I can push that back a little and have them not influence my mood01:43
DocScrutinizer05also health issues tend to stress, I heard. And I'm just about to try and recover from those01:44
whitequarkhave you heard that ARM has replaced its toolchain with LLVM?06:57
whitequarkand somehow they contribute a ton without being held by the throat at lawyerpoint06:58
DocScrutinizer05hehe, a 8 IPs scanned my box, of which 3 were crawl-66-249-64-\*.googlebot.com, 1 been internetsurvey-1.erratasec.com and 2 were researchscan010.eecs.umich.edu12:04
larscfor heartbleed?12:13
Web-aptosid876_thinking of commiting the sin of evilbay and buying this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nokia-N-Series-N810-256MB-Wi-Fi-4-1in-Titanium-/261445511507?pt=UK_iPad_Tablets_eReaders&hash=item3cdf5de95312:32
Web-aptosid876_looks like one can install a new gnu+linux system on it http://bues.ch/cms/hacking/n810-openwrt.html12:33
Web-aptosid876_trying to work out if it needs any proprietary blobs to work?12:34
Web-aptosid876_can I get a recent distro on it?12:35
Web-aptosid876_DocScrutinizer05: good to hear your not dead yet :)12:36
DocScrutinizer05N810 is a very nice device, for a tablet12:46
DocScrutinizer05*THE* Nokia Internet Tablet (NIT)12:47
DocScrutinizer05I don't know about recent distros, I'd think I'd not like their window manager / desktop manager12:48
DocScrutinizer05and for sure any generic distro would have massive problems at least with charging battery12:48
DocScrutinizer05in N810 battery charging is actually completely software driven12:49
DocScrutinizer05however >>Tablet only. Missing stylus, charger <<12:51
Action: DocScrutinizer05 recently first time lost a stylus of his N90012:52
DocScrutinizer05I guess finding sylus for N810 could turn out to be a mission impossible12:53
DocScrutinizer05Web-aptosid876_: /join #maemo12:55
Web-aptosid876_yea but it's 99p sylus is just a bit of plastic12:55
Web-aptosid876_arr thanks12:55
DocScrutinizer05sure, nevertheless Nokia charges 6EUR for stylus12:55
Web-aptosid876_still cheeper than buy one for £20+12:56
DocScrutinizer05and some of the 2nd source replacement stylii are either soft crap, or sharp so they scratch the display12:56
sb0Web-aptosid876_, or make it yourself for 1000¬. welcome to the wonderful world of mech manufacturing...12:56
Web-aptosid876_btw I'd really like a neo900 if I could get them money ;)12:57
DocScrutinizer05you of course could crave a stylus from wood12:57
Web-aptosid876_or use my thumb nail :P12:58
DocScrutinizer05for charger you shouldn't have much trouble to find replacement, N810 charger is pretty simple and cheap12:58
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's what I did 99% of time, on N81012:58
DocScrutinizer05Nokia AC-4E output 5V, 890mA (or more), flimsy 2mm barrel connector13:01
Web-aptosid876_ flimsy.... oh no13:02
Web-aptosid876_did you get install debian,openwrt,etc ?13:02
wpwraksb0: shapeways ? :)13:02
DocScrutinizer05no, never bothered13:03
sb03d printing is a joke13:03
sb0it's just a visualization method13:03
Web-aptosid876_just to check, chroot is a means to doing a proper install?13:03
wpwrakfor that sort of things it should work great. with a decent printer, not these makerbots13:04
sb0a pretty good one, but unsuitable for real-world objects13:04
Web-aptosid876_so you reboot into say debian or do you have the orignal os running at the same time as say debian?13:04
sb0well, electron beam melting is interesting though13:04
wpwraki think i begin to understand your selection criterion ;-)13:06
wpwrakonce someone figures out how to use a gigawatt roentgen-laser for 3d printing, you'd be enthralled ;-)13:06
DocScrutinizer05Web-aptosid876_: chroot is "running another OS" inside the original one13:07
sb0haha well13:08
sb0EBM does this: http://www.technologyreview.com/demo/425133/printing-parts/13:08
DocScrutinizer05Web-aptosid876_: in one shell (for example) your environment *feels* like you were on that OS/system you chrooted that shell to13:09
Web-aptosid876_as I feared. dam it chroot's no good13:09
Web-aptosid876_128mb ram!13:09
DocScrutinizer05chroot is great, just you got an XY problem13:09
sb0the result is quite different from those puny molten plastic gadgets13:09
Web-aptosid876_anyway I was hoping to run a fully free system :|13:10
infoboti guess xy is The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X.13:10
sb0you can actually print car engine parts on them, not just claim you will someday like the makerbot folks do13:10
Web-aptosid876_not a fully free system in a non-free system, defeats the point13:10
DocScrutinizer05~part #qi-hardware13:10
infobotLeaving. (courtesy of docscrutinizer05).13:10
DocScrutinizer05Web-aptosid876_: maemo is way more 'free' than you seem to think13:11
DocScrutinizer05the kernel is completely free13:11
DocScrutinizer05much of the core system is free13:11
sb0(press ESC as soon as the stupid javascript animation starts in order to bypass the paywall)13:12
DocScrutinizer05some few libs are closed blobs13:12
Web-aptosid876_yes but, in hte n900 it's full of critical bits that are non-free13:12
Web-aptosid876_from audio to libs13:12
DocScrutinizer05no, N900 it's exactly same situation, just community laready RE'd many of those closed blobs, like charger13:12
Web-aptosid876_the wiki page hasn't been updated then13:13
DocScrutinizer05hildon-desktop is free13:13
DocScrutinizer05you can actually run a maemo on a different device, without using *any* closed blobs13:13
Web-aptosid876_yes maemo on a differt device can be free13:14
infobotfrom memory, fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9130813:14
infobotsomebody said cssu was http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU13:14
Web-aptosid876_but what different device13:14
DocScrutinizer05maemo on a different device is exactly as free as maemo on N900 or N81013:15
DocScrutinizer05~#maemo closed13:15
infobot#maemo closed is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages13:15
DocScrutinizer05~+chanset #qi-hardware13:16
infobotchan: #qi-hardware (see _default also)13:16
DocScrutinizer05well, then...13:16
DocScrutinizer05~part #qi-hardware13:16
infobotLeaving. (courtesy of docscrutinizer05).13:16
DocScrutinizer05iirc for diablo there's even a hacker edition that's supposed to be 100% free of closed blobs. I might have that wrong though13:18
Web-aptosid876_diablo? hmmm13:19
Web-aptosid876_but you see what I mean about the n900? not good. hench neo900 is the only hope :)13:19
Web-aptosid876_diablo game?13:20
Web-aptosid876_DocScrutinizer05: sorry see line above13:21
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: hmm, why the part?13:22
DocScrutinizer05Web-aptosid876_: you're quite confused. a) N900 is not as closed as you think, and I don't see what you mean. b) Neo900 doesn't change anything about the whole thing, we only provide a new hardware, it's the job of community (see fptf link infobot pasted above) to port maemo to the Neo90013:23
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: infobot got bullied out13:24
Web-aptosid876_thats my point neo900 is new  hardware with a better level of freedom :D13:24
DocScrutinizer05mainly because of chanlogs it does, which contain join lines with IP13:25
DocScrutinizer05how's there any better level of freedom?13:25
Web-aptosid876_the nokia bs I was refereeing too: http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages13:26
DocScrutinizer05*shrug* 13:26
DocScrutinizer05I don't see how Neo900 is changing this13:26
DocScrutinizer05fptf is changing this13:27
Web-aptosid876_I'll look again at these wiki pages...13:27
Web-aptosid876_I thought fptf was only for the neo90013:28
DocScrutinizer05rad the thread, at least first post13:29
DocScrutinizer05>>- or more generally to new hw platforms - <<13:29
Web-aptosid876_so new hw platforms includes old platforms like the n900, dare I say n810 despite it's little ram and cpu hehe13:31
DocScrutinizer05please take it to #maemo13:33
Web-aptosid876_I did waiting for a reply13:33
Web-aptosid876_oh ok13:33
DocScrutinizer05most idiotic spam is that which has fuckedup dates like 2010-01-11 today17:12
DocScrutinizer05I always wonder if those idiots hope their spam will sit and hide there at end of list until it riped when finally it gets noticed17:13
DocScrutinizer05or probably it's a zombie job started 2009 and still running on some orphaned server, sending out same old spam with same old date since 5 years17:14
larscit's running on a machine where the date is not set correctly17:18
DocScrutinizer05or that, yep17:18
DocScrutinizer05thanks for the hint, I forgot about that possibility17:19
DocScrutinizer05correct time feels natural to me meanwhile17:19
DocScrutinizer05forgot there might still be a few boxen out there that don't run ntp17:20
DocScrutinizer05ntp, a nice target to check for vulnerabilities. Would have a better impact than ssl flaws17:30
DocScrutinizer05well, otoh it's harder to exploit, particularly since it's not using virtually arbitrary and fast changing broad set of peer addresses17:32
DocScrutinizer05and not opening any service except on servers 17:32
DocScrutinizer05lol! http://privatepaste.com/456d8854e817:34
wpwraka NTP code injection exploit would be juicy :)17:55
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: it uses udp though18:05
whitequarkso if you make a real huge flood of udp replies, you have a chance of mounting an attack if the port is right18:05
whitequarkDNS used to be vulnerable until it started using good unpredictable nonces in queries18:05
DocScrutinizer05aaah, right, I seem to recall sth like that18:40
DocScrutinizer05well, a vulnerability the type of ssl heartbeat been would nicely propagate bottom up the stratum stack of ntp infra, and from top down spread across prolly 90% of computers worldwide18:42
wpwrakand we'd all have to return to telling time and date by feeling the warmth of the sun :)18:43
DocScrutinizer05a dual-binary aexploit covering redmond crap and linux would prolly already suffice18:43
wpwrak... as it burns down on our tails as we crawl through the mud18:44
DocScrutinizer051353,  >so far. give us time< ;-P18:45
larscthere used to be people with synchronized watches that would walk around the city every morning to tell people the time so they could re-adjust their clocks19:07
wpwrakwhen DocScrutinizer05 is done with the attack, there won't be any watches either. and certainly no synchronized ones ;)19:10
dos1there will be smartwatches synchronized via NTP :)19:11
larscI think what wpwrak was trying to imply is that there won't much of anything left once DocScrutinizer05 executed his attack19:16
dos1ok, badly worded: there won't be any watches, cause they will be attacked by ntp exploit as well ;)19:18
wpwrakthink cool latte dame age19:44
DocScrutinizer05hmmm, seems other anticipated my plan:  http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/opensuse_guides/opensuse11.1_reference_guide/sec_netz_xntp_yast.html  >> By default, Run NTP Daemon in Chroot Jail is activated <<19:47
dos1firefox os simulator geolocated my laptop with ~25m accuracy :c20:07
dos1well, that's not really simulator, it's a firefox process running like it would on firefox os20:08
DocScrutinizer05and what magic does it to locate the PC? Something similar to the HDD-gyrocompass of one of the last years' c't april's fools?20:35
DocScrutinizer05I.E. see if e.g. office-app has your addr as default20:35
dos1DocScrutinizer05: visible wifi networks + online database, I guess20:54
whitequarkyep. you can query the kernel cache of wifi networks without any credentials21:34
whitequarkwell, any user process can, I mean21:34
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: Init the Menu before initializing SDL (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/9fba35f22:13
pcercueioops, looks like I broke something at the same time22:20
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: Init SDL timers before creating the menu (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/b1eedf622:28
pcercueiworks better now22:28
--- Mon Apr 14 201400:00

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