#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2014-04-01

Web-aptosid876_sorry. I'm a irritating English man :|00:00
Web-aptosid876_please help me by saying/pointing out when I'm not clear enough00:01
Web-aptosid876_sometimes I opt for the easy option for my brain regarding my wording when trying to write00:02
DocScrutinizer05FSF would be well-advised to define their domain of competence as "any code that gets *executed* on the same CPU or in same RAM like the OS core under scrutiny"00:03
DocScrutinizer05maybe even augment that:00:04
Web-aptosid876_ever enough English is my native language. I've spent the last few years trying to use different words but it can and does get messy :D00:05
DocScrutinizer05"any code that gets *executed* on the same CPU or in same RAM like the OS core under scrutiny, or on a system that can access said CPU or RAM without said CPU controlling every aspect of such access"00:05
DocScrutinizer05(english) sorry my english skill got trained by reading american Byte magazine00:06
DocScrutinizer05I hardly can understand a restaurant menu00:06
Web-aptosid876_dare i say why not post to the fsf and the fsfe mailing list?00:06
DocScrutinizer05becuase there's a lot of fanatics that I don't see any benefit in engaging into battles with them00:07
Web-aptosid876_I can try to help by being a middle man. I would have thought that you would be able to have a conversation like we have been having00:08
DocScrutinizer05when you've read my above linked tmo posts, you know that Stallman didn't answer even a week after my last mail suggesting my better approach of close monitoring of peripherals. Well, guess what! He still didn't00:09
DocScrutinizer05but then, privacy is not the primary goal of FSF. FS is00:10
Web-aptosid876_I can't complain about reply times. I'm terrible my self is one reason.00:10
Web-aptosid876_privacy isn't because you get privacy via FS00:10
DocScrutinizer05FSF's "RYF" campain is a move to force hw and chip makers to open up their closed specs and docs00:11
Web-aptosid876_good thing too00:11
DocScrutinizer05alas we're the completely wrong target00:11
DocScrutinizer05and tbh I consider that hubris00:11
DocScrutinizer05FSF will - or already has failed on that00:12
DocScrutinizer05to be honest00:12
Web-aptosid876_moving on....00:13
Web-aptosid876_so with the OP00:13
DocScrutinizer05chip manufs will NOT disclose their intelectual property in WLAN firmware and/or GPU driver stuff, since that's killing their business by handing out their best asset to their competitors00:13
Web-aptosid876_going back then to firware.....00:14
DocScrutinizer05there been that move in linux at large to force hw manufs to not provide linux drivers that are not completely FOSS. The result been that hw manufs didn't care and worst case simply didn't provide *any* linux drivers and/or support00:14
DocScrutinizer05buzzword GPL-v300:15
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak can elaborate on the details, I guess00:16
Web-aptosid876_how is "software to interface with the bloody hardware" bad for showing how there hardware works in important ways. I don't want cop X to have yet another evil monoly. I don't want there so called need above mine. if we all insist on free drivers and firmware then that means for any of them to pertisetat in the markect they have to free the sofrware up or they don't get markect. and so we end up with a fair market cus00:20
Web-aptosid876_ they all do it. like with having the same price to post a parcel to someone who lives in the country side as someone who lives in a city00:20
Web-aptosid876_participate/sell to the market00:21
DocScrutinizer05Web-aptosid876_: I have a question for you: I have a laptop that is all fine and in line with RYF, except for the plugged in GSM module. Now I unplug that module and send the laptop to FSF for RYF cert. When I got the cert I advertise the laptop with that RYF badge but I offer customers to have the GSM modem card plugged in before I send the product to them. What we got here? Cheating? FSF cert rendered misleading? Or simply freedom 00:23
DocScrutinizer05of customer to decide whether or not he wants that modem card in his certified product?00:23
Web-aptosid876_.com's that then don't provide support are trying to twist our arm. lets not put up with company's like that. makes it easy.  don't buy there things00:23
Web-aptosid876_acceptable cheating00:23
Web-aptosid876_acceptable "cheating"00:24
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I don't understand "cop X2 and "monoly"00:24
Web-aptosid876_cop=company X=<name of company>00:26
DocScrutinizer05>>if we all insist<< is the pint where your utopy dies00:26
Web-aptosid876_I regetted that worded when I reread it after pressing enter00:26
Web-aptosid876_with a good amount of us insisting00:27
Web-aptosid876_but we can get a lot more instst indirectly via projects like QiMod's rhombus-tech and the EOMA spec00:28
DocScrutinizer05the whole linux sector is already so small that most hw manufs don't care. The percentage of linux users willing to insist in FOSS firmware stacks in peripherals like modem, WLAN, whatever is microscopically small00:29
Web-aptosid876_exactly hence I'm so keen about qimod and EOMA00:30
DocScrutinizer05and I have to say, I'm damn happy about not every script kiddie in my neighborjood can flash the newest leetest "make all phonecalls go down and all phones start ringing" hacked firmware to their average cheap android phone GSM chipset00:31
Web-aptosid876_to put qimod and eoma and makeplaylive.com simply: a non-evil innovation apple00:31
Web-aptosid876_so what?, stuff the script kiddie00:32
DocScrutinizer05"so what?" nothing, it's fine the way it is00:33
DocScrutinizer05in that regard00:33
DocScrutinizer05there are savvy people like Harald Welte (also associated to Openmoko) and Dieter Spaar (too) and others, who actually can do proper RE of a GSM stack and use the GTA03 et al calypso modem chipset to investigate on properties and flaws of a GSM cell/network in a non-intrusive way.00:35
DocScrutinizer05and that's absolutely enough of freedom in that regard, for my taste00:36
DocScrutinizer05s/GTA03/GTA02/  dang!00:36
DocScrutinizer05I'd like to see monitormode in GSM modems being mandatory as of 3GPP AT specs, and offering a rich set of info. But that's it with my hopes for changes in the modem "freedom" situation00:38
Web-aptosid876_sounds like the real issue is the gsm system needs a over-hall00:39
Web-aptosid876_just becuase freedom can by used by twats doesn't make it a bad thing. and no I don't advocate gangsters -"free men"- gangsters take the freedom to fuck others and deny others there freedom. evil beeps ****00:41
DocScrutinizer05anyway FSF approach of "when *we* can't write and flash a new GSM radio stack firmware to the modem, then *nobody* may do it" is not really any sane concept. It only serves for avoiding conflicts with FSF self-image00:42
Web-aptosid876_hum hum00:44
DocScrutinizer05whatever, I decided that Neo900 isn't interested in FSF and what they do00:45
DocScrutinizer05big waste of time00:45
DocScrutinizer05we know we do better for *our* customers than what FSF tries to establish00:45
Web-aptosid876_I guess you didn't write the free software related text on the website ? :p00:46
DocScrutinizer05hmm? which text? which website?00:47
Web-aptosid876_the same text that got me intersted00:47
DocScrutinizer05all text on  neo900 websitze is approved by me00:47
Web-aptosid876_covered my interested00:48
DocScrutinizer05we don't have uch software-related text there, though00:49
DocScrutinizer05damn, MUCH00:49
Web-aptosid876_a lot more then other projects00:50
Web-aptosid876_it's good what there is when I look. though I had times of lack of confidence reguarding non-free blobs but then there was something I read that settled me.00:54
Web-aptosid876_the text was good when I looked.00:54
Web-aptosid876_right bed time really for me00:55
Web-aptosid876_so with the open pandora: hopefully gpu 3d acel isn't needed. wifi blob is mac address and not any important security related bits basicly I need not worry and why the flip does the joystick need non-free blobs according to pcercuei. so now to find out if the non-free junk (like user apps umm like games) is easy to separate in the package manager/repos and uninstall01:00
Web-aptosid876_looks like this might anwser most of my questions http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/7085-how-free-is-the-openpandora/01:04
DocScrutinizer05lol http://novamobileappsworld.blogspot.de/2014/03/xciting-affordable-smartphones.html  - a 4 weeks old by still maybe news to some of you. Nokia goes android01:43
Web-aptosid876_openpandora does look like it is the best anwser for my needs, I just hope I don't regret it. cus gwc-zero sounds like it will be a fully free sytem in the future but the pandea has keyboard,2 sd, line-in even, bigger screen. when I look at http://pandorawiki.org/USB_compatibility_list i'm a little conerand about wether i might have wifi doom and I assume it comes with the usb audio interface class driver02:02
Web-aptosid876_thanks for you help and I leave my irc on and for now I'll get some sleep02:03
Web-aptosid876_so post any replys and i'll read them in a few hours time02:04
Web-aptosid876_found this sudo su02:05
Web-aptosid876_opkg remove libgles-omap302:05
Web-aptosid876_rm /lib/firmware/wl1251-fw.bin02:05
Web-aptosid876_the guy also says to remove pandora-pndstore it get a free system, whys that? non-free pkgs listed in the package manager gui?02:06
Web-aptosid876_oh and I assume I can play full res video on the cpu. I don't see why not02:07
Web-aptosid876_opkg remove pandora-firmware02:13
Web-aptosid876_i wonder if that includes the nubs? kind-a hoping note02:13
Web-aptosid876_then again theres so many twats on the OP forums I think I might go mad :( arrg 02:18
Web-aptosid876_then again the gcw-zero has a vibrator moter and the OP doesn't it seams. a vibrator would help a lot with alarms. oh I don't know anymore02:30
Web-aptosid876_right bed02:30
larscfreenode+ accounts, yeay!11:57
whitequarkDocScrutinizer51 will be happy11:58
DocScrutinizer05I alreeady sent a "thank you2 to the blog!12:10
Web-aptosid876_is any one developing/supporting a OS for the Wiz? I couldn't find anything a while ago, just wondering13:16
Web-aptosid876_DocScrutinizer05: i wonder if this helps you to make sense of rms's email http://pandoralive.info/?p=1586 just dumping it out there so I can close the tab in my web browser :)15:25
wpwrakDocScrutinizer51: you may like this: http://pics.nase-bohren.de/russia-wants-war.jpg18:03
DocScrutinizer05not really. I got real problems right now18:03
DocScrutinizer05founding of UG caused personal bankrupt, so I'm about to ponder my options18:06
larscmaybe you can have your new company give free lunch to employees18:07
larscgerman limited18:09
larsckind of18:09
larscdo you know GmbH?18:12
whitequarkmm, heard of it18:13
whitequarkof course not the gnarly legal details. for that matter I don't even know how  works18:14
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: that sounds serious :( could you perhaps bill nikolaus for some work, to maintain liquidity18:15
larscUG is the same, excpet that you need less money18:15
whitequarklarsc: I see18:15
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: I'm going to do exactly that now18:20
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: great. let's hope it work ... and his tax advisors don't find yet another problem. they don't seem to be much better at - belatedly - finding problems than at coming up with solutions :-(18:21
DocScrutinizer05isn't it amazing how with every entity, on every topic, always the blocking actions happen at speed of light, while the enabling actions take weeks or months to complete?18:23
wpwrakwell, in your case it seems that both take a lot of time. 1) you make a plan. 2) they shoot it down. 3) you come up with something else. 4) they shoot it down again. 5) you develop a plan together with them. 6) you start implementing it. 7) once you're committed, they shoot it down again.18:26
DocScrutinizer05but then otoh my rent for my flat doesn't get paid this month, while the idea how to pay it otherwise hasn't finished birth process yet18:35
wpwrakwell, you said you have a nice landlady ...18:36
DocScrutinizer05but my energy provider is less forgiving18:36
wpwrakyeah, i'd worry more about these. well, they'll probably send you a warning letter after a few days and such. so you have a bit of time.18:37
DocScrutinizer05only a bit18:37
wpwrakwell, i hope nikolaus won't make you wait for weeks ...18:38
larscI think in Germany they have to continue to provide you with electricity for at least 3 months18:44
Web-aptosid876_DocScrutinizer05: hope it works out for you.23:55
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