#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2014-03-31

DocScrutinizer05Uptime: 6 hours and 55 minutes06:53
eintopfDocScrutinizer05: cool07:40
eintopfthe utpime is cool07:42
eintopf6 hours07:42
DocScrutinizer05I don't see what's cool with this07:51
wpwrakthis will get awakward :)07:52
DocScrutinizer05damn konversation new version is broken, it doesn't support the %c in user commands anymore07:52
DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/03/31/plasma-desktophA3862.png  >:-(07:54
DocScrutinizer05[2014-03-31 Mon 08:51:10] <-> chanserv> access %c list07:55
DocScrutinizer05[2014-03-31 Mon 08:51:10] [Notice] -ChanServ- Invalid parameters for ACCESS.07:55
DocScrutinizer05whole KDE got even more unbearable with this new version07:57
DocScrutinizer05the systray icons are now really white on white, with gray shadow: http://wstaw.org/m/2014/03/31/plasma-desktopvz3862.png07:58
DocScrutinizer05 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/03/31/plasma-desktopwf3862.png07:59
eintopfwho uses systemtrays? :-)07:59
eintopfokay, okay... I use a systemtray also07:59
DocScrutinizer057GB *just for email*08:00
DocScrutinizer05akonady, the greatest thing since black plague08:00
wpwrakhmm,. my desktop, command in order or frequency of use: Ctrl-Cursor, switch virtual screen. Left-click: a little menu comes up that lets me start xterm, plus a few other things i rarely use (i just start everything else from xterms). Right-click: like of active windows. that's it :) loneg live fvwm !08:02
DocScrutinizer05task manager doesn't show number of grouped windows anymore08:02
DocScrutinizer05desktop? never see that08:04
DocScrutinizer05all I'm using is the taskmanager bar at top of screen, and the menu and widgets in the errr plasma bar08:05
DocScrutinizer05all my windows are fullsize08:06
DocScrutinizer05and I rarely ever use multiple virtual screens08:06
DocScrutinizer05rather I switch between widows with alt-tab08:07
wpwrakall full-size ? you should use the ratpoison windoe manager then08:07
eintopfwpwrak: :O I use fvwm as well08:10
wpwrakgood choice ! :)08:19
DocScrutinizer05well, I'm used to this kde environment, though it turns into a bitch more and more15:16
DocScrutinizer05sometime around end of KDE2 I almost worked mouseless - had kbd macros for really everything15:17
DocScrutinizer05with kde3 stuf got better and worse - with kde4 it turned into a mess15:17
zcrcuse gnome-shell <315:18
DocScrutinizer05and what really makes me want to go BERSERK are the regressions introduced because of ignorance and incompetence, often even intentionally15:20
DocScrutinizer05gnome however is so UGH, I tried it once when it came as default "alternative" to KDE, several years ago, and I don't like it - I even developed a hate for all tools starting with g*15:21
DocScrutinizer05gconf for example15:22
DocScrutinizer05well, gstreamer is kinda nice15:22
DocScrutinizer05I'm honestly surprised kdbus isn't named gbus15:23
zcrcmy only problem with Gnome software is that it tends to be very buggy15:23
DocScrutinizer05that too15:24
DocScrutinizer05and despite the "KISS" approach it has, compared to KDE15:24
DocScrutinizer05my desktop is so heavily cistomized, you wouldn't be able to tell what it is, on first glance. And I'm having a several days of redoing customizations on every update. Last one been ~12h ago15:26
DocScrutinizer05in gnome this would be weeks at least15:26
DocScrutinizer05if feasible at all15:26
DocScrutinizer05gnome seems the perfect desktop for the "install, don't touch, use 4 weeks, re-install" gang15:27
DocScrutinizer05while I'm perfectly happy with my desktop staying all the same for years or even decades15:29
DocScrutinizer05only minimal bugfixing and careful updates to augment a few useful functions15:29
DocScrutinizer05my decorations still look like win3.11 ;-)15:30
DocScrutinizer05*of course* "classic style" appstarter menu15:30
DocScrutinizer05I soliloquize15:33
zcrcfeels windows-ish :)15:34
DocScrutinizer05well, I don't care how it look. As long as it doesn't scare my autistic mind. I tell you it doesn't *feel* like windows15:35
DocScrutinizer05though.... Kontact PIM starts to feel more and more exactly as clumsy and unusable like outlook15:37
DocScrutinizer05just noticed the update broke the audio notifications on new mails15:38
DocScrutinizer05for checking a 4600 inported mails against spamassassin it too ~5min for SA and ~45min to move the mails around from one folder to the other - in *mysql* :-o GRRRRR15:39
DocScrutinizer05for a total of maybe 50 mails that actually got moved15:39
DocScrutinizer05all the time spamming me every 20s with "tehre are 3 new mails in folder 'openmoko-community'" and similar nonsense15:40
DocScrutinizer05while mySQL eate one of my 4 cores of this i515:41
DocScrutinizer05dunno WTF this SQL devel did to poor mySQL, in Kontact/kmail15:42
DocScrutinizer05or rather, AKONADI-crap15:42
DocScrutinizer05a 8h ago I had to restart akonadi, since it constantly spammed my internet connection with IMAP chitchat to my OM mailserver, at a rate of 45kB/s15:43
DocScrutinizer05even while Kontact been completely stopped. This doesn't mean a thing to this akonadi abomination, it continues to fetch mail in background. W*T*F????15:44
DocScrutinizer05a little riddle for you: what's the difference between http://wstaw.org/m/2014/03/31/plasma-desktopTK3862.png  and http://wstaw.org/m/2014/03/31/plasma-desktopCy3862.png15:49
DocScrutinizer05it's a negligible "audio muted" - of course making it *any* more obvious, e.g. by using *colors* (EEEEEK) like 'red' for the muted speaker symbol would probably kill the macintosh-loving designer idiot15:52
DocScrutinizer05I seem to recall that in KDE2|3 icons not only were more color-happy (thus giving more and better info in the same channel "bandwidth"), but it's also way simpler to select and even design your own icons everywhere15:56
DocScrutinizer05this "NO COLORS, we're modern!" mindset makes me angry15:56
DocScrutinizer05just like that "no holes in the case" idea in OM GTA0315:58
DocScrutinizer05perpetuated until today, and extended to the equally old "no hw buttons please"15:59
DocScrutinizer05wtf is wrong with a nice hw-trigger for camera?15:59
DocScrutinizer05what with a proper volume or - more generaly - PLUS / MINUS rocker16:00
wpwrakwell, you can have capacitative. one nice benefit is that you can make the case pretty water-tight that way16:01
wpwrakespecially if you don't have a lot of connectors. or can compartmentalize them.16:02
DocScrutinizer05HAHA, ok. All water-resistant phones I ever seen used hw-switches all over16:02
DocScrutinizer05maybe that's related that water and capacitive detection doesn't go together well16:03
wpwrak(kde) i used konqueror for a very very long time. but eventually it just had too many problems rendering things. switched to chromium and like it. overall feeling is not too different and it's quite snappy.16:03
DocScrutinizer05I'm not using crappy capacitive touchscreens, but I heard those iPhone and Samsung users swaer a lot when it starts raining a tiny bit16:04
wpwrak(cap+water) hmm, you have a point there ... let's say "water-surviving", not "under-water-usable" :)16:04
DocScrutinizer05for receptacles even more important than a flap sealing the hole in case where the jack is behind, is using of properly sealed receptackles that don't open up an aperture to the rest of device interior16:06
DocScrutinizer05except for the tube of a vacuum cleaner I don't know of a single functional connection that needs an apperture to the inside of the device. Every receptacle can get built in a way so that the device as such is still "water tight"16:08
DocScrutinizer05ooh, right, Oven funnel16:08
DocScrutinizer05they even can built water-resistant speakers ;-)16:09
wpwrak(funnel) yeah, a fan would need outside access ;-)16:10
DocScrutinizer05see JVC control-1G16:10
DocScrutinizer05(fan) depends. I can easily see a water-tight design, using heatpipe and only exposing the heatsink and the fan as such to any water outside the device16:11
wpwrakand yes, i'd also try to make a "connector compartment" with walls around that end on the pcb in something rubberish.16:11
DocScrutinizer05and, using a concept like your dish washer's pump, that fan doesn't even need any electricity in it16:12
wpwrakthe fan itself would be very environmentally sensitive. perhaps more than anything else in the device.16:12
DocScrutinizer05how environmentally sensitive is a plastic propeller with a few neodyme magnets embedded into the plastic?16:14
DocScrutinizer05actually virutally every contemporary PC fan is built that way. The moving parts are ony plastic with embedded magnets. The elctronic oarts are solid state and could get separated from the fan blades by a watertight wall16:16
wpwrakgiven the type of device that would require a really tiny fan, i suspect very, no matter how you design it. of course, you could make it more or less fragile16:16
wpwrakand yet they die like flies ...16:16
DocScrutinizer05that's usually caused by the crappy bearings, or by idiots like me giving them a 6 bar blast form canned air16:17
DocScrutinizer05actually giving that critter a nice bath would help keep it alive, by removing all the dust and gue it collects16:18
wpwrakyeah, bearings are a big problem16:18
wpwrakthe bath may also remove whatever lubrication they use. not sure if it's always trivial to replace.16:19
wpwrakzcrc: hah, now we know your undercover identity :)16:19
DocScrutinizer05it's not. But obviously such bath isn't considered appropriate for standard fans, but for the water-tight type16:20
wpwrakok :)16:20
DocScrutinizer05apropos: last laptop fan that crapped out and started screaming, I dremeled a apperture to the fanblade hub, not exactly on but close to the axis, and then flooded it with wd40. worked for another 2..3 years16:22
zcrcwpwrak: :)16:23
larsczcrc: back to work!16:25
DocScrutinizer05duh, this DST kills me, already 18:3016:28
DocScrutinizer05(hermetic receptacles) particularly 2.5mm 3.5mm 6.3mm and RCA jacks are often built like the case needs more ventilation holes16:48
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: was disassembling the laptop too complex?16:56
DocScrutinizer05err yes, lenovo T500 is really a bitch to disassemble and clean16:57
DocScrutinizer05though the defect fan been in a Siemens Amilo16:58
DocScrutinizer05the T500 got a killed electronic by me overpacing the fan motor16:59
DocScrutinizer05I tried to block the fan blades by some wire or match or cantrecall, but fialed16:59
DocScrutinizer05fan->20000RPM, oevrvoltage killed the PWM regulator electronics17:00
whitequarkugh I hate this so much17:05
larscthe fan is always the first that dies on my thinkpads17:05
whitequarkmain ISP's billing is broken, so I'm left to use this crappy LTE17:05
whitequarknot only SINR is constantly near 0 dB where I live, but also there is some weird path interference going on AND snow!!!17:06
whitequarkwhy the fuck is there snow in April17:06
DocScrutinizer05because you live in a doomed country ;-P17:06
larsctechnically it is only snow in March17:07
DocScrutinizer05while snow in April isn't exactly unheard17:08
larsc I remember at least one easter where it snowed17:09
DocScrutinizer05you could even say, April is proverbially notorious to have rain snow hail and summer sun, on one day17:09
DocScrutinizer05at least here in Germany17:09
DocScrutinizer05old children's rhyme17:10
whitequarkthat doesn't make me hate it less17:10
DocScrutinizer05anyway, crapy LTE? I'd be lucky to have *any* LTE. Though UMTS with HSPA isn't that bad here. Faster than my DSL17:11
DocScrutinizer05use a proper yagi17:11
DocScrutinizer05or even helical17:12
whitequarkwell, anything <LTE works even worse at this point, in fact I don't usually even have 2G coverage in the middle of a room17:12
whitequarkyagi... dongle doesn't have antenna slot17:12
DocScrutinizer05wtf? aren't you living in Moscow?17:12
whitequarkI am17:12
whitequarkthere's a fucking cartel of three cellular operators which care about exactly 1 thing: filling their pockets17:12
whitequarkwhoever came up with the spectrum licensing fees needs to be executed17:14
DocScrutinizer05a dongle? great! place it where your active dipole of your yagi sits, so it couples directly to that dipole17:14
DocScrutinizer05you even could use a simple sat dish17:15
DocScrutinizer05800MHz is already short enough a wavelength, 1800..2100MHz definitely is17:16
DocScrutinizer05check out what the WLAN antenna freaks do, google words: "pringle antenna", "sat dish + WLAN"17:17
DocScrutinizer05plcing the dongle at focus of the dish, preferrably in a pringle tube, is as convenient and easy to build and cable up as it gets17:18
whitequarkyes, a video, thank you so much17:19
whitequarkI can't even load my webmail for ten minutes already17:20
whitequarkirssi barely works17:20
whitequarkhm. gotta give a call to these fuckers who provide my landline.17:20
DocScrutinizer05ooh, sorry17:22
whitequarkhm, I'm impressed17:25
whitequarkI waited for only about 1 minute and they turned it on without much questions17:25
wpwrakwhitequark: why was it down in the first place then ?17:26
whitequarkwpwrak: broken billing17:26
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantenna17:27
DocScrutinizer05ooh, you fixed it :-)17:28
DocScrutinizer05well, then maybe for next time you need WWAN17:28
wpwrakwhitequark: ah, that's fun17:36
DocScrutinizer05great! http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html17:46
DocScrutinizer05also http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/template/  and specially for whitequark: http://www.heise.de/artikel-archiv/ch/2012/01/022_Richtantenne-fuer-0-EUR  and  http://www.heise.de/artikel-archiv/ch/2012/01/028_Outdoor-Dosenantenne17:59
whitequarkyeah, thanks17:59
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: if you were subscribed to the qi-hw list, you could do a bit of advertizing for the neo900: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2014-March/010558.html18:05
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: >> That leaves a few others -- firefox os, ubuntu touch, Neo900 and so forth.<<18:10
DocScrutinizer05freedeom has its price18:11
DocScrutinizer05_not: using a fsckng combo-SoC with integrated modem *is* way more expensive than a snapdragon crap where your frankenstein kernel needs to run based on a closed-source android RIL and modem shares RAM with linux and nothing protects you from modem taking over control over the whole system, possibly without you even noticing18:14
Web-aptosid876_ I'd relly like to get a neo900. (would "solve" my NN noisey sound problem :) ). but it's finding the £££. :( my money for these things comes from a trust fund but a neo900 is 1year's of trustfund and I need that money for other gear arrrr. but i want a neo900 .....18:14
Web-aptosid876_I gess i need to get some one off jobs for the money :P18:15
DocScrutinizer05well, yeah. That hurts but we decided to build it _nevertheless_ even while we can't do anything about the pricetag18:15
whitequarktrust fund?18:16
DocScrutinizer05350 preorders convinced us that it's feasible, I was pretty sceptical about it when we started that project18:16
Web-aptosid876_it's great that there pressing on despite the price tag. I'll was just writing my woes. 18:17
Web-aptosid876_I'd love to put my self on a list of pepole whos order becomes active when X number of peole = low price 18:18
Web-aptosid876_a bit like what rhombus-tech.net have for there preorder pages18:18
Web-aptosid876_this way I don't have to commit £100 and then not be able to pay the other £500 later. but you and other buyers see that X number will buy with X number of total buyers = lower price18:20
Web-aptosid876_for me I think when 1000 is reached it then becomes a bit easyir to afford but I still havn't worked out where my money is commming form18:21
Web-aptosid876_I get a few-serval hunder £ each year from <surname> family biz. (I'm 19 years old now)18:22
Web-aptosid876_thats what I mean by trustfund18:22
Web-aptosid876_money thats in a trust18:23
Web-aptosid876_So I'm very lucky.18:23
Web-aptosid876_so DocScrutinizer05 your involved in neo900? is there a list of buyers when price is <max>?18:26
DocScrutinizer05well, I think I'm kind of "involved", yeah. We don't publish a list of buyers, we may not for privacy reasons18:28
wpwrakWeb-aptosid876_: he's main driving force behind Neo900, in more roles - technical as other - than i can imagine ;-)18:34
Web-aptosid876_I don't mean a list of who and who I mean a number18:36
DocScrutinizer05yes, we will find a way to show the "stock exchange fluctuations" of pricetag once real ordering starts18:37
DocScrutinizer05but we need to take a high risk beforehand by guessing how naby devices we may sell, and sourcing the components for that amount we hope we can sell. Sourcing components may take 3..6months or not work at all, so we need to start with that *now*18:38
DocScrutinizer05so only the ones who did a "preorder" donation are warranted to get a device - when anybody gets any18:39
larscand once you have found source for all components the ones you found first are already end of line ;)18:40
DocScrutinizer05we might simply "run out of stock" pretty soon18:40
DocScrutinizer05larsc: those components I am talking about here are EOL since ~4 years18:40
Web-aptosid876_so when the price can be £400 then all the buyers who's price limit was set to £400 then automatically, there conditional order becomes a order. this way you see you have this $many possable orders18:41
DocScrutinizer05stuff like slider mechanism, display, digitizer, keymat18:41
Web-aptosid876_arr oh dear. there's pressure for me to put one in18:41
DocScrutinizer05camera module, antennae18:42
DocScrutinizer05main flex cable18:42
DocScrutinizer05basically it's still a "get a N900 and swap the mainboard" thing, not a production of a new shiny (more or less) device18:43
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: but you'll do that too, now that you have full control, right ?18:46
wpwrakwell, s/'ll/ plan to/  of course, it's a new can of worms, with new things that could go wrong18:47
Web-aptosid876_full control?18:48
DocScrutinizer05and since that's not nightmare-ish enough yet, to make it worse we don't know yet how many donors hope for a complete device and how many would be content with a mainboard to swap on their own N900. And the tax office and GDC's tax advisors don't find a way to transfer the donations to the Neo900 UG, and I'm probably not able to order *anything* any time soon18:48
Web-aptosid876_so later this year or next year I guess realistically?18:50
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I hope so18:50
Web-aptosid876_I can tell you that I'll need a completely device18:50
DocScrutinizer05right now Neo900 development in Munich is pretty slow due to a colliding concurrent job that for unclear reasons got priority: Pyra18:51
wpwrak"Pyra: Ang Babaeng Apoy is a Filipino drama of GMA Network." must be that one :)18:55
Web-aptosid876_hmm. mind if I dare ask for suggestions for a small device with good sound output, usb host?, and maybe free-wifi? bouns: good audio line-in18:56
whitequarkany smartphone really18:58
larscsounds to me as if dr. nik is taking the neo900 money and using it for founding a different device ;)19:00
wpwraklarsc: don't open OpenPandora's box ...19:03
Web-aptosid876_small device must be free software only. no spyphones19:04
Web-aptosid876_esp for networking19:04
whitequarkthen you don't really have much choice19:05
Web-aptosid876_nn i guess :P19:05
Web-aptosid876_or neo90019:05
whitequarkno usb host or wifi or line-in (I think?) and apparently no good sound output19:06
whitequarkneo900 doesn't exist yet19:06
whitequarkWeb-aptosid876_: well, here's an idea for you19:06
Web-aptosid876_I know. I'm the one with the sound woes with my NN.19:06
whitequarkdon't use a consumer device, rather buy a devboard. e.g. beaglebone or something like that.19:06
Web-aptosid876_I was going to say...19:06
whitequarkafaik beaglebone is 100% free software and I think it has most or all the features you want19:06
DocScrutinizer05larsc: nope, I don't think so19:07
Web-aptosid876_too big19:07
Web-aptosid876_I have ordered a Improv http://makeplaylive.com19:07
Web-aptosid876_I think I could make a fat but pocketable computer with it19:08
DocScrutinizer05Web-aptosid876_: honestly? get a used cheap working N90019:08
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: that still has proprietary dialer19:08
Web-aptosid876_what he said19:08
Web-aptosid876_even the sound needs non-free this and that19:09
DocScrutinizer05well, I didn't read anything about WWAN in the "specs" 19:09
larsceven if the dialer is open source the modem will probably still run a closed firmware19:10
Web-aptosid876_I would have but nokia doomed it.19:10
DocScrutinizer05nope, audio works just fine on ALSA level, you can even install gentoo on N900 and it "just works", except for the phone part19:10
DocScrutinizer05larsc: every phone has such closed GSM stack19:10
Web-aptosid876_I looked at the wiki page year or two ago, didn't look good19:10
larscDocScrutinizer05: yea, that's what I said19:10
Web-aptosid876_re spy gsm stack, thats why I like the neo900. when the modem is off it's off.19:11
DocScrutinizer05>>small device with good sound output, usb host?, and maybe free-wifi? bouns: good audio line-in<< the latter one only via USB audio dongle19:11
DocScrutinizer05no spy GSM stack on N900 either19:12
Web-aptosid876_I expect the only way for line-in is usb audio interface19:12
DocScrutinizer05since N900 also has separate "detached" modem subsystem19:12
Web-aptosid876_?? what. 19:12
Web-aptosid876_but is the modem off when its off?19:13
DocScrutinizer05basically yes19:13
Web-aptosid876_so it's "off" but on19:13
DocScrutinizer05lemme put it this way: when it generally wasn't, a lot of people already would've noticed that19:13
DocScrutinizer05the modem's schematics are known, so no hidden microphone or anything in it19:14
Web-aptosid876_so can it get upto no good when it's "off" or is it like the neo900 that it can't when it's off19:14
DocScrutinizer05afaik there's no way for the modem to turn evil when it's "off", due to the firmware which never exposed such behavior19:15
Web-aptosid876_so when I switch the modem off can it still be giving my positon away? sorry to be a pain19:15
DocScrutinizer05and even when the modem "wakes up" out of nowhere or by command of its evil remote master, it can't do much bad19:16
whitequarkI personally would be more concerned by statistics rather than singular pinpointing events19:16
Web-aptosid876_which is why 99% of the time it would be off19:16
whitequarkand unless you abstain from ever receiving calls, there's no way you can prevent an able party from collecting such statistics19:16
whitequarkand if you never receive calls or SMS messages, honestly the usefulness of GSM is very limited in my book19:17
Web-aptosid876_I hardly need to be callable by any one.19:17
DocScrutinizer05no, when the modem is off, there is no known way it could give away your position, unless NSA cooperated with Nokia to create a new signed spyware firmware for the N900 and then installed that to your device when you weren't looking19:17
Web-aptosid876_ok. thats a bit better :P thanks19:17
Web-aptosid876_I don't need gsm but it's a nice small device with good sound out and usb host19:18
Web-aptosid876_but some times in the year having internet via gsm has it's uses19:19
DocScrutinizer05however when the N900 isn't in airplane or tablet mode (modem off), then the N900 is one of those phones where Abby of CSI gets the GPS position without even calling the device19:19
Web-aptosid876_I would expect that19:19
DocScrutinizer05there's even a huge number of N900 where modem chip is broken and will definitely not work anymore19:20
Web-aptosid876_oh great where lol19:20
DocScrutinizer05should be pretty cheap on fleabay19:20
Web-aptosid876_oh no not evilbay :(19:20
DocScrutinizer05"no SIM detected"19:20
Web-aptosid876_arr thansk19:20
DocScrutinizer05High Tech Fix For "Nokia N900: All telephony functions are disabled"19:23
DocScrutinizer05LOL! beware of scam: http://www.mobiledeviceworkshop.co.uk/nokia-n900-sim-card-reader-repair-service-1439-p.asp - it's NOT the sim card tray that's broken when N900 says "no SIM detected" or "All telephony functions disabled"19:26
DocScrutinizer05Hehe, hit #18 is already http://projects.goldelico.com/p/neo900/issues/518/19:28
Web-aptosid876_so there a distro for the neo900 with no nokia non-free junk?19:32
Web-aptosid876_what about support and updates (like security updates)19:32
Web-aptosid876_dead I assume19:32
DocScrutinizer05there are several "distros" adapted to N900. And N900 being a discontinued product, it doesn't receive any product level industrial support, it's up to the community to provide such support and updates19:36
DocScrutinizer05for maemo fremantle see http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU19:36
DocScrutinizer05or just #maemo-ssu19:37
DocScrutinizer05>>Latest version: Testing(2014-01-01): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo9.1; Stable(2013-06-18): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6.1<< doesn't smell 'dead'19:37
Web-aptosid876_sound good :)19:37
DocScrutinizer05for the fun: http://www.tuug.fi/~toni/serendipity/index.php?/archives/9-Windows-NT-4.0-running-on-N900!.html  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DThOHGb2rr0  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxMYuCHxBgE  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ19:40
DocScrutinizer05for more serious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI19:44
DocScrutinizer05demonstrated and uploaded by Sebastian, who's Neo900 PR-manager :-)19:44
DocScrutinizer05definitely no "proprietary crap" in SHR19:47
DocScrutinizer05and of course those threads I started, like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9114219:49
Web-aptosid876_btw what about a composite input 4inch lcd + http://minipute.com/2013/07/04/mk808c-tv-stick-debuts-with-dual-core-cpu-and-av-output/20:18
DocScrutinizer05for your needs? sounds like it could fit20:29
Web-aptosid876_well software suport for the mk808c. its a20 same as the a20 eoma card/improv i've preorded. 20:29
DocScrutinizer05no idea20:30
Web-aptosid876_wifi =non-free blob? can't find info. tried elinux website20:30
Web-aptosid876_it's kinda what I have planed for my improv20:31
Web-aptosid876_to make my improv into a fat pocket computer20:31
Web-aptosid876_with pro £100 usb audio interface for a portable audio recorder20:32
Web-aptosid876_hench I lack money for a neo90020:32
DocScrutinizer05I wonder if Neo900 could use tosslink20:33
DocScrutinizer05but then, wtf? USB should be good enough20:33
DocScrutinizer05"combined 3.5 mm jack and mini-TOSLINK socket"20:36
DocScrutinizer05but way too expensive and technically demanding, for unclear benefir over USB20:36
Web-aptosid876_so keyword's to find support info for  mk808c?20:37
whitequarkhmmm weird, why does toslink has so tiny operating range?20:37
DocScrutinizer05tiny like 10..30m?20:37
DocScrutinizer05well, yeah, dunno why20:37
DocScrutinizer05prolly because they don't use laser and monomode fibers20:38
whitequarkwhy not?20:38
Web-aptosid876_still need those DAC's  so might as well use the universal usb audio interface I'm going to spend £100 on :)20:38
DocScrutinizer05on multimode fiber a |_| after a few meters looks like \_/20:38
DocScrutinizer05for multipath light propagation with different length20:39
Web-aptosid876_so there's nothing like the NN or with out keyboard with usb host?20:40
Web-aptosid876_maybe without keyboard, ie mini tablet thing20:40
DocScrutinizer05I think there's a truckload of different android (mini-)tablet models by now20:41
DocScrutinizer05the newer ones even should support hostmode20:42
Web-aptosid876_not android. cheep china android things = gpl violation 99% likely20:42
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I'm out20:43
Web-aptosid876_what about Archos devices? tried  #archos but it's doomed with non-free blobs20:44
Web-aptosid876_tried asking on20:44
DocScrutinizer05get an openpandora!20:48
Web-aptosid876_hmm thought about it but... if i'm being fussy non-free wifi blob. I'll have a look again20:49
Web-aptosid876_ooo evilbay:  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OpenPandora-Pandora-Black-Handheld-System-/221405125168?pt=UK_VideoGames_VideoGameConsoles_VideoGameConsoles&hash=item338cc61a30 20:51
Web-aptosid876_so much for £1 starting bid: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Consoles-/139971/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=openpandora&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc20:52
Web-aptosid876_oh my. I thought the openpandora was not in production any more.21:02
Web-aptosid876_but it likes like it's busy busy21:02
Web-aptosid876_looks like21:02
pcercuei_< DocScrutinizer05> get an openpandora!21:03
pcercuei_get a gcw zero :o21:03
Web-aptosid876_looked at gcw zero. looks like it's software is not indev anymore21:04
Web-aptosid876_theres some bugs with usb otg = host?21:04
pcercuei_are you saying that I'm not working fast enough?21:04
Web-aptosid876_oh. sorry21:04
Web-aptosid876_a "i'm alive note and slowing doning some work here and there" would be nice :P21:05
Web-aptosid876_flip I missed it when I was reading that thread21:08
pcercuei_the bugs we have with USB is with hot-plugging21:08
pcercuei_I fixed that not so long ago so that hot-plugging works, but I'm still not certain that it's secure enough to enable it by default on the firmware21:08
Web-aptosid876_arr not so good for a on the go portable audio recording =D21:09
Web-aptosid876_hmm oh choices choices21:10
Web-aptosid876_perhaps add a sig to your forum profile "I'm the GCW Zero dev" or something21:11
pcercuei_and get lots of angry PMs? no way :)21:11
Web-aptosid876_btw that dam forum is behind cloud whats-it = tor users blocked grrr21:12
DocScrutinizer05angry PM? then you're soing sth wrong ;-P21:13
Web-aptosid876_open panda has keybaord & looks more converance of my non gaming needed21:13
pcercuei_DocScrutinizer05: people just want their candy21:14
Web-aptosid876_I'm not going to use it as a games console. a note taker, audio recorder, music player, address book, todo list, etc21:15
DocScrutinizer05get the right "avatar", they will reconsider X-P21:15
pcercuei_get a cheap Android phone21:15
pcercuei_that would work better as a PDA ...21:16
Web-aptosid876_been there done that, yuck. evil corps, non-free software, after 2years no more suport = disposable junk, citezen servalance device. never. I won't make the same mistake again. never ever21:19
Web-aptosid876_does the gwc zero need non-free firmware/driver for the wifi?21:21
pcercuei_the driver is FOSS, but it has a non-free firmware21:21
pcercuei_there is a FOSS version in mainline Linux, but it doesn't work as good21:22
pcercuei_that's the only non-free bit that we have on the full software stack, by the way21:22
pcercuei_even the GPU driver is FOSS21:22
Web-aptosid876_thanks for the info. could you add that info to the website for people like me please :)21:22
Web-aptosid876_oh the GPU's been revsengearied wohoo!21:23
Web-aptosid876_if I don't so that sort of info when I'm looking at product, I lose hope ;)21:24
pcercuei_I'm not in charge of the website21:24
Web-aptosid876_ok, or the wiki at least21:24
Web-aptosid876_someone any one :)21:24
Web-aptosid876_but yea thanks very much21:25
Web-aptosid876_I remmber now. I can't even buy a gcw zero. thats why I gave up.21:36
Web-aptosid876_no stock21:36
pcercuei_where are you located?21:36
pcercuei_Thinkgeek should have stock21:36
pcercuei_as well as dragonbox.de21:36
Web-aptosid876_dragon no stock but thinkgeek does21:39
Web-aptosid876_wow £90!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! shocked21:39
pcercuei_go figure how much an openpandora costs ;)21:41
Web-aptosid876_hmm oh dear21:41
Web-aptosid876_£113 with post21:45
Web-aptosid876_price aside. what non-free blobs does the openpandora have?21:46
pcercuei_AFAIK, wifi, joystick and GPU21:48
Web-aptosid876_joystick = proprietary software?21:49
Web-aptosid876_Bluetooth 2.0 is a snag. cracked BT keyboard encryption 21:53
wpwraktry BT 4.0 LE ;-)21:55
Web-aptosid876_trying to find info on status of non-free blobs in the pandora22:32
DocScrutinizer05https://www.google.com/search?q=status+of+non-free+blobs+in+the+pandora ;-)22:46
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: did you mean this ? :)   http://lmgtfy.com/?q=status+of+non-free+blobs+in+the+pandora22:58
Web-aptosid876_haha I know of lmeviltfy22:59
Web-aptosid876_I was search there website.22:59
Web-aptosid876_there seams to be a lot of twats that don't know what there moaning about in the OP forums :(23:00
wpwraklots of twats ? gee, you must be have stumbled into the internet thing :)23:01
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: I don't see the difference23:04
DocScrutinizer05again ran into FSF RYF shit23:05
DocScrutinizer05probelm is people have no clue, even when they think they ought have23:05
DocScrutinizer05Respects Your Freedom FSF hw certification, which is bullshit23:06
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: lmgtfy "types" the query for you, suggesting that whoever asked you could have found the answer on their own23:06
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: I don't need that23:06
wpwrakyeah, FSF is more hindrance than help for hardware23:06
Web-aptosid876_why do you think RYF is bs? makes my life easier23:06
DocScrutinizer05"we `only´ have to find a SoC with a more free GPU" ROTFL!!!23:07
Web-aptosid876_I did amuse at that23:07
DocScrutinizer05"WiFi is no problem" double-rotfl23:07
wpwrakthey do have unexpected uses, though. e.g., i considered the replicant project a complete waste of time, but since they're forced to have a very good look at where the non-openness issues lie with different pieces of hardware, they're actually a good source for this sort of information23:07
DocScrutinizer05WiFi is a mega problem when you follow FSF idiotic rules of "no user updateable firmware in subsystems"23:08
Web-aptosid876_no such thing as free gpu only if reverse engineered :(23:08
Web-aptosid876_well I guess if your danger level is max then "no user updateable firmware in subsystems" is what you want? if it's not free23:10
DocScrutinizer05you need a hardmac/fullmac WLAN chip or your CPU kills your battery, and you want to be able to hack that firmware for this MCU embedded in WLAN chip. And you hardly ever can find a FOSS formware for that MCU. So what you gonna do? Use an inferior WLAN chip that forbids hacking of firmware so FSF feels happy? FOOOOOOOOLS!23:10
DocScrutinizer05who tells you that the non-updateable firmware is free of rogue bugs or backdoors, to start with?23:11
Web-aptosid876_no one but the change the wifi firmware attack isn't a option23:11
Web-aptosid876_for the attacker23:11
DocScrutinizer05and how will you ever find out when FSF tells you "no you hacker, you mustn't touch this! This is no software, this is hardware!"23:11
DocScrutinizer05really, FSF *limiting* my freedom in name of my freedom?? No thanks!23:12
Web-aptosid876_I don't quite understand what you mean?~23:13
DocScrutinizer05that's still this old cheesy hubris of "we will FORCE them to open their sourcecode"23:13
DocScrutinizer05and on Neo900 we will NOT install exxtra MCUs to *block* firmware update on modem or WLAN chips23:14
Web-aptosid876_wants wrong with demanding libre(=no power over you) softwares for your hardware23:14
Web-aptosid876_ MCU?23:15
Web-aptosid876_readonly flash?23:15
DocScrutinizer05sorry when you don't understand how a firmware update for my DVD-ROM drive or my modem or my WLAN is EMpowering me to improve stuff, then I can't help. I don't get how you think a firmware image provided by a chip manuf so you can flash newest control software to a subsystem would have *power over you* :-o23:16
Web-aptosid876_hmm... danger danger getting out of depth :)... ok....23:17
Web-aptosid876_I was talking generaly23:18
DocScrutinizer05that's the psychosis of FSF that everything that looks like software has to comply with their rules, no matter on which CPU in which context it runs23:18
Web-aptosid876_I thoght it only applid to networking. cd-rom FW isn't a concern for them23:19
Web-aptosid876_wifi and i guess ethernet thats all23:19
DocScrutinizer05so I can quote a mail from Stallman to me where he asked if we maybe could create a write protect in the modem, so FSF could *define* the whole modem as **HARDWARE**23:19
Web-aptosid876_ok and modem23:20
Web-aptosid876_I think the readonly flash came from existing hardware and the question of the lesser evil. then I guess it's became option X for desperate measure's with non-free networking firmware.23:22
Web-aptosid876_in new products23:23
Web-aptosid876_I'm being the middle man, sorry don't take it personally 23:23
Web-aptosid876_but personally the option of re-flashing it with firmware like the leaked source code for the gta02 is attractive23:24
DocScrutinizer05which FSF would forbid for your higher interestes23:25
Web-aptosid876_I woudn't put it like they want power over me.23:26
DocScrutinizer05and actually GTA02 is a good example why the whole FSF approach is bullshit, since GTA03 originally *been* certified by FSF afaik, since we thought there's no way for user to update the modem firmware ever. We found a way to do it nevertheless later on, so what's with the certification? been it moot from beginning, from the point where we found about that option, or been it BS since FSF invented it?23:27
DocScrutinizer05bot dead?23:28
Web-aptosid876_grep s/GTA03/GTA02/g23:28
Web-aptosid876_didn't you forget the "/g" ?23:28
Web-aptosid876_sorry my bad23:29
Web-aptosid876_I've had mixed feeling on the readlony firmware subject adn still do'ish. I think I'll play middle man on the subject for both sides for now.23:32
Web-aptosid876_both sides of the argument23:32
wpwraka good way to maximize the number of enemies, for both can consider you a traitor to the cause ;-)23:35
Web-aptosid876_evey one hated me in school for no good reson. I'm used to it.23:37
Web-aptosid876_I try to use bad will given to me to push my self into a better place23:38
Web-aptosid876_but thanks23:39
Web-aptosid876_so back to finding out if I can run a openpandora libre only style :)23:41
Web-aptosid876_or if it's a huge mess of binarys23:41
DocScrutinizer05my post http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1397401#post1397401 hits the nail on the head23:49
DocScrutinizer05re FSF23:49
DocScrutinizer05and re OpenPandora: I guess since it's a OMAP/DM3x30 system, it's just the same like Neo900 and N900 and beagleboard23:51
DocScrutinizer05you have a blob for OpenGL-ES but only needed for 3D accel, and you probably have a firmware for WLAN chipset since all embedded needs a fullmac WLAN or it will earn a lot of hate23:52
Web-aptosid876_ok devils advocate hat on. I guess there consed that if the "slip" on phone modem then projects will slip on wifi. wifi can be done via usb. the users don't know the differane what they do know is that it makes up a hole device. it's built in. not something that is temply plugin in to your laptop.23:52
DocScrutinizer05for some chipsets I *guess* there are RE'd firmwares, e.g. I *guess* the packet injection driver for the N900 cis such a critter23:53
Web-aptosid876_there concern23:53
Web-aptosid876_spell corection or the overall senticne?23:54
Web-aptosid876_just dumping a thought out there thats all.23:54
DocScrutinizer05when I buy a computer system with a FOSS OS, certified by FSF, will it lose cert when I plug in a printer that doesn't come with FOSS firmware inside the printer?23:54
Web-aptosid876_thats your choice to plug it in23:55
DocScrutinizer05will cert be void when I mount the printer at the side of the PC case with 8 screws?23:55
Web-aptosid876_it's separator23:55
whitequarkha, fun fact. my notebook shows 101.01% of battery charge right now23:55
whitequark... because it is quite hot and I guess the fuel gauge got crazy23:55
DocScrutinizer05will cert be void when I build a case for both the PC and the printer?23:55
Web-aptosid876_yes becuase it then becomes part of the "product". it's sold with it23:55
whitequarkCore 0:         +79.0°C  (high = +87.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)23:56
whitequarkCore 1:         +77.0°C  (high = +87.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)23:56
DocScrutinizer05Web-aptosid876_: I have a completely different notion on this23:56
Web-aptosid876_I know23:56
DocScrutinizer05and I can *prove* that FSF has no idea about which peripherals come with own MCU and own firmware: evidence: Stallman using a laptop with harddisk23:57
Web-aptosid876_oh theres a hard one23:57
DocScrutinizer05or worse: with eMMC or SSD23:57
Web-aptosid876_...again it's not _networking_23:58
DocScrutinizer05and I bet that laptop has a touchpad, and a keyboard controller, and maybe even a CD-drive23:58
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: haha, excellent23:58
Web-aptosid876_yea I thought of that after pressing enter23:58
DocScrutinizer05who says "networking"??? you made that up!23:58
DocScrutinizer05wtf is wrong with networking when the harddisk cripples my data and hides the bootsector virus from me?23:59
Web-aptosid876_I'm going off my unreliable memory. I did say danger danger getting out of deft early didn't I ;)23:59
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I sometimes can't parse your english23:59
Web-aptosid876_yep very good point was wondering about that too23:59
--- Tue Apr 1 201400:00

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.9.2 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!