#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2014-03-29

wpwrakwow, i'm good. implemented a little EP0 protocol on ybox, and it worked on the first try.00:29
wpwrakusb, where has all your fight gone ? it's not like you to give in without at least a night of struggle00:30
DocScrutinizer05USB lost patience, knowing about how long it had to wait for wpwrak's nights no arrive01:27
wpwrak;-)02:55
whitequarkfun fact11:04
whitequarkHDPE has lower melting point than PMMA, yet is much easier to machine11:04
whitequarkI guess because it's less hard ’ less friction ’ less heat11:04
DocScrutinizer05HDPE?11:25
DocScrutinizer05the stuff coke bottles are nowadays made of?11:26
whitequarkno, just the coke bottle caps11:28
whitequarkcoke bottles are PET11:28
whitequarkthere are also some other containers made out of HDPE, e.g. flux11:28
whitequarkhttp://imgur.com/a/W1c3W11:29
whitequarkadded a coolant pump11:29
whitequark*everything* is soaked in water11:30
whitequarkI was prepared for whatever's under CNC to be soaked11:30
whitequarkbut11:30
whitequarkturns out the pump literally leaks more than it pumps11:30
whitequarkWTF, Voronezh factory11:30
Action: whitequark wonders if they ever heard of QA... guess not11:30
DocScrutinizer05LOL11:47
whitequarkdon't repeat my mistake: no buying of russian-made components11:50
whitequarkI swear, chinese ones are better11:50
whitequarkthey at least somewhat work most of the time11:50
whitequarkthat electrolyte acid bottle is covered in something oily11:51
whitequark*PLEASE* don't tell me it leaks too11:51
larscthe acid desolved the bottle12:04
whitequarknah that's unlikely12:21
whitequarkthe bottle is made out of LDPE or maybe MDPE12:22
whitequarkeither way, polyethylene is not in general dissolved by acids, except strong oxidizers12:22
whitequarkand it has no plastifier for acid to absorb12:22
DocScrutinizer05electrolyte bottle?12:42
whitequarkyes12:43
whitequarkit's an electrolyte for lead acid batteries ’ approx 30% H2SO4 plus some kind of deshittifier12:43
whitequarkhopefully that doesn't interact in plating process or in fact enhances it, although I would still prefer pure acid12:44
DocScrutinizer05eeek12:54
whitequarkmaybe I can extract it12:57
whitequarkhm... by distillation? though not sure I am aroused by a pot of boiling sulfuric acid somewhere in my house12:57
whitequarkhard to say without knowing what exactly that additive is12:57
whitequarkaccording to http://www.findpatent.ru/patent/226/2267191.html, one of the components could be diethylenetriaminepentamethylphosphonic acid13:00
DocScrutinizer05take care, buddy13:04
whitequarknah, I'll just use it as is13:05
whitequarkseems like the additive is mostly fluorosurfactants, a few organic acids and a metal sulphate13:06
whitequarklead or cadmium, I *hope* it is lead13:06
whitequarkor maybe it's just pure acid13:07
whitequarkyep, vendor says it is pure acid13:08
whitequarkgood13:08
DocScrutinizer05is it *that* hard to get something simple like sulfuric acid in .ru?13:10
DocScrutinizer05I mean, stuff labeled as "pure sulfuric acid"13:11
DocScrutinizer05I dunno what's the situation now, last time I bought such stuff in next drugstore or pharmacy, but that's like 40 years ago13:12
DocScrutinizer05last chemical experiments (1kg of flash powder based on Mg an KMnO4) been with support of a friend who had a chemicals store13:14
DocScrutinizer05about 15 years ago13:14
DocScrutinizer05btw that was a pretty disappointing experience, mostly due to lack of a proper mill to crack the KMnO4 crystals into proper dust13:15
DocScrutinizer05probably should have tried some recrystallization13:16
DocScrutinizer05btw the "underwater thunderstorm" experiment is really cool ;-). You could aslo test your battery acid this way, I guess. layer some ethanol over sulfuric acid in a small test tube you better place into a huger water bath, then throw one crystal of KMnO4 into that13:29
DocScrutinizer05http://www.experimentalchemie.de/versuch-031.htm13:31
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: yes, exactly that hard13:52
wpwrakkeep on searching for the right formula. Pro Tip: if the patent application contains the string "stabilize with FOOD", then you're on the right track.13:52
whitequarkthere is 1 shop I found which will send dilute 15% acid to individuals13:52
whitequarkand it only ships from SPb, which is rather inconvenient13:52
whitequarkacids >15% aren't sold to individuals under any circumstances whatsoever13:53
whitequarkwell, not quite. specifically: sulfuric acid >45%, hydrochloric acid >15%, acetic acid >80%13:54
whitequarkalso, acetone >60%, toluene >70%, permanganate >40%, nitromethane and nitroethane >40%13:56
whitequarkand a bunch of other things as well13:56
whitequarkno regulation for other mineral acids13:56
whitequarkdespite that, there are very very few vendors who send even diluted acids to individuals13:57
wpwrakso put "whitequart industries" in the first line of the address :)13:57
whitequarknah, they'll ask you to pay in the appropriate way companies do13:58
DocScrutinizer05wtf do you dilute acetone and permanganate with?13:58
wpwrakor find a supplier nearby so that you can visit them with a bottle of vodka. a fair trade: you bring a bottle of vodka, you leave with a bottle of concentrated whatever.13:58
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: acetone ’ water, permanganate... I guess water too13:58
DocScrutinizer05err13:59
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: peroxide ? :)13:59
DocScrutinizer05KMnO4 in water isn't stable13:59
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: ethanol then?13:59
DocScrutinizer05and I doubt acetone will mix with water13:59
whitequarkacetone absolutely does, it is quite polar14:00
wpwrakwhatever sludge the ministry of nuclear waste disposal pays you to get rid of for them ?14:00
DocScrutinizer05so you say you can't get any crystalline KMnO4?14:02
whitequarkI don't think so14:03
DocScrutinizer05weird14:03
whitequarkused in organic synthesis as oxidizer14:04
DocScrutinizer05I however wonder what those 40% are meant 14:04
whitequarkbasically if you want to do any organic synthesis you're fucked, because all common compounds are restricted14:04
whitequark"can be used to make narcotic drugs", my ass14:04
whitequarkhands and brain also can be used for that, better restrict them too14:04
DocScrutinizer05KMnO4 is not really soluble in water to amounts of >40% of weight or volume, or mol, I guess14:05
whitequarkI have no clue14:06
DocScrutinizer05anyway, bluebox alarm, the zombie leaves his cage14:09
DocScrutinizer05o/14:09
DocScrutinizer05fun: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140329_001.jpg14:17
whitequark"Schadenfreudenburg" hahaha14:18
whitequarklook at this pump: http://i.imgur.com/vkEiX8L.jpg14:20
whitequarkseems like they put a rubber ring around the motor and so made it separate the two parts, turbine compartment and motor compartment14:21
whitequarkexcept outer case has a crack so water gets in the back compartment14:21
whitequarkugh.14:21
DocScrutinizer51whitequark: indeed ugh15:12
wpwraktime for a reboot ...16:12
whitequarkDocScrutinizer51: you'll like http://hack-a-day.github.io/arduinoOut/17:22
whitequarkwell. seems everyone here would like it :p17:22
Action: wpwrak goes for the booze. hopes not to wake up before the day of engineering shame has ended.17:23
whitequarkgiggle17:24
whitequarkwpwrak: my comment (have you read it already?): http://hackaday.com/2014/03/29/arduino-day-is-today/#comment-131282117:25
larscomg1 they keep multiplying17:26
wpwrakhehe, well put :)17:26
wpwrakpro tip: catch the skull "sideways". then it'll be caught in the paddle, move left and right but no fly odd (until you move the paddle away)17:28
DocScrutinizer05well, lucky enough I had my my last Absolut100 *before* I ran into this17:34
whitequarkyou drink vodka?17:35
DocScrutinizer05sure, nothing else usually17:35
DocScrutinizer05this "game" is shite though, I keep the arrow keys hammered and nothing moves17:36
DocScrutinizer05:-(17:36
DocScrutinizer05while the "ball" bounces out17:36
whitequarkhmmm17:36
whitequarkthats weird17:36
DocScrutinizer05huuuuge delays17:36
whitequarkdo you use IE6 ?17:37
whitequarkoh, delays. so you run latest chrome on pdp-11? :p17:37
DocScrutinizer05WUT?17:37
whitequarkwhat I mean is that any recent-ish browser on recent-ish machine shouldn't have any problems *shrug*17:37
whitequarksadly JS games have thrown us back in performance by factor of somewhere between 100-100017:38
DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~> time for ((i=0; i<1000000; i++)); do :; done17:39
DocScrutinizer05real    0m3.826s17:39
DocScrutinizer05user    0m3.761s17:39
DocScrutinizer05sys     0m0.060s17:39
whitequarkwill be a while before moore's law catches on. or maybe we'll never regain it, seeing as JS is strictly single core and moore's law works on multicore for several years17:39
whitequark4.8s on my machine17:39
dos14.8s and game works nice on Konqueror17:40
whitequarkI'm impressed, what is this beast you run that a ivy bridge i7 with 12G of RAM and an SSD can't beat?17:40
DocScrutinizer05i517:40
DocScrutinizer058G, SSD17:40
dos1but I think it's using onkeypress instead of onkeydown/up, so the "delay" may depend on the key repeat delay17:41
whitequarkthough, I wonder what is the bottleneck in this test17:41
dos1laptop, i5, 8G and SSD here ;)17:41
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: cat /proc/cpuinfo | head -n 30|grep 'cache size'17:41
DocScrutinizer05cache size      : 6144 KB17:42
whitequarkmine is 4096 KB, so my guess is likely right17:42
dos13072 KB17:42
whitequarkit's cache-bound17:42
whitequarkthat's basically a fork() benchmark17:43
DocScrutinizer05booze down to zilch, gotta leave to get more17:43
whitequarkso you're just sitting there alone drinking vodka?17:43
whitequarkare you sure you aren't russian and/or alcoholic? :p17:44
DocScrutinizer05I did, now it's over17:44
DocScrutinizer05no, I drank vodka and am still listening to B52s17:44
DocScrutinizer05and that's actually something I missed a lot, just sitting there and listening music with a glass of vodka17:45
DocScrutinizer05and now I'm again in fron of this brainkiller17:45
DocScrutinizer05o/17:45
whitequarkokay...17:46
wpwrakreal    0m7.663s, sigh18:15
wpwrakstill not too bad for an old Q660018:16
wpwrakshows that things haven't improved much in the last demi-decade18:16
whitequarkwpwrak: well, if fork performance is the only critical thing to you... ;)18:18
wpwrak(brainkiller) that would be bild.de then, i guess :)18:18
larscI though he meant the vodka18:18
wpwrak(cpu performance) i suppose it's not all that different in may other aspects18:19
wpwraklarsc: hehe ;-) indeed, let's celebrate the traditional values ! :) nastrovje !18:19
larsccould also be some kind of medication though. "I'm on prescribed brainkillers, the extra strong ones"18:22
wpwrakah, that's the new anti-zombie vaccination, isn't it ?18:26
whitequarklet the holy war commence. http://hackaday.com/2014/03/29/arduino-day-is-today/#comment-131297418:35
larscalready deleted18:36
larscat least that comment does not seem to be visible18:36
whitequarkvisible for me18:38
whitequarkweird18:38
whitequarkvisible for me even in incognito mode...18:38
larscah, now it is18:39
whitequarker, posted it as a reply to the wrong person :/18:41
whitequarkcrappy interface18:41
larscwell better late then never "[PATCH v2] fs: FAT: Add support for DOS 1.x formatted volumes"19:13
whitequarklol19:25
whitequarka guy using arduino in production, not understanding how power management works20:11
whitequarkwhy am I not surprised...20:11
larscwell, does he have to?20:22
wpwraklarsc: (dos 1.x) so we're seeing the first fallout from the source code release :)20:31
whitequarklarsc: he claims to be a professional embedded developer20:31
whitequarkand says that EE community is close-minded for not appraising his work20:32
Action: whitequark shrugs20:32
wpwrak"RMs are not necessarily cheaper than AVRs, " huh ?20:40
whitequarkhm?20:42
wpwrakdidn't you mean the opposite ?20:42
whitequarkwhoops20:42
whitequarkwell, I corrected myself in some next message anyway20:43
whitequarkI made parametric gcode for milling a container out of acrylic: https://gist.github.com/whitequark/986260520:44
wpwraklet's see how long until you snap out of this "g-code as source" mindset :)20:46
whitequarkso far I haven't found a CAM which works for me20:46
whitequarkwell, there's pcb-gcode which mostly works (but is for other things), and inkscape gcode plugin (which is also for other things and really only good for generating sequences of points20:47
wpwrakby the time you get to 3D, you'll have to, in one way or another20:48
whitequarkwpwrak: what do you use?20:48
whitequark3D... well, if I need an arbitrary mesh, then sure, need some kind of CAM20:48
wpwrakfor 3D ? fped :)20:48
wpwrakfor 2D, fped (and happy with it) or kicad, depending on what it is i'm doing20:48
whitequarkbut mostly I don't want or need arbitrary mesh. I need a pocket here, a profile there.. which can be perfectly done with some handy gcode routines20:48
whitequarkand when gcode will get a little unwieldy, I have plans for my own CAM :p20:49
wpwrak;-)20:49
whitequarkbased on a pure functional DSL, manipulating contours (and sometimes meshes), then spitting out them as gcode20:49
whitequarkoperations such as: make a contour for a primitive or a set of points; apply affine transform; intersect/union/subtract contours; pocket/profile by contour (with const TEA of course)20:50
whitequarkI just need to bind to / port libarea/libkbool, and its insides gross me out *really badly*20:51
whitequarkwho the fuck even writes like that20:51
whitequark(o°¡°o5 ;;20:51
whitequarkwpwrak: maybe that CAM will once be able to eat contours from FreeCAD, like heekscnc is supposed to (but the published version doesn't actually work)20:52
whitequark(and heekscnc is so horrible to use anyway, it's even much worse than freecad)20:52
whitequark*heekscad20:52
whitequarkwpwrak: I do agree this approach is too repetitive though, e.g. manually writing out four egdes is not fun at all20:53
whitequarkand that doesn't decompose into gcode subroutines cleanly20:53
whitequarkhence, my own CAM20:53
Guest54638do you have noise from you NN spk or headphones?23:27
Guest54638background noise, hiss,fissile that's noticeable when listening to music?23:28
Guest54638I find it more noticeable when using ear pieces than big headphones23:29
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