#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2014-03-23

DocScrutinizer05whitequa1k: err what's with your nick? Nice makerbot... maybe. I miss photos11:07
DocScrutinizer05FUCK! suckers stole my bike, basically Sunday noon before the noses of me and my landlord, from our house's backside garden11:49
wpwrakmust have been robin hood, taking from the rich. now that you're a company owner ...12:01
DocScrutinizer05how are company owners linked to "rich"?12:01
DocScrutinizer05actually it took my last cent to found this friggin company. Literally12:02
DocScrutinizer05and then out of our garden >:-(  49.448842, 11.055079   http://wstaw.org/m/2014/03/23/plasma-desktopMI3389.png12:05
DocScrutinizer05I'm tempted to grab the 9mm P9 and have a walk around the block, that sucker might still be around12:08
wpwrakyou have the wrong neighbours. "Yogabewegung" won't help. you should have picked a place next to the "Ninja Ronin Fight Club"12:08
wpwrakprobably too many cameras around for that sort of "unbureaucratic" solution ...12:08
DocScrutinizer05yeah, it evidently didn't. My landlord was sitting in her Yogastudio and meditating, and when she opened her eyes she seen the read wheel of my bike vanishing aroung the corner of our house out of garden direction street (there's a ~7m long path from street to our garden)12:09
wpwrakbesides, to be properly badass, you'd need a pump gun and a bazooka on your back12:10
DocScrutinizer05the P9 is faster12:10
DocScrutinizer05and more accurate12:10
DocScrutinizer05my landlord is more pissed than I am, though12:11
wpwraki hope you left some dimethylmercury on the saddle12:11
DocScrutinizer05alas not12:11
DocScrutinizer05but my landlord wasn't completely averse about the idea to have mines and pitfalls and self-triggered guns in our garden now12:13
DocScrutinizer05the bike was 180EUR, 5 yeras ago. Aside from me not being able to afford a new one right away, the loss is not really terrible. It's the psychologic damage that hurts12:14
wpwrakyeah, such things suck12:17
wpwrakat least they didn't break into your home. i had that happen once (in lausanne, luckily, i wasn't in). not nice :(12:18
DocScrutinizer05had that three times12:18
DocScrutinizer05plus a few more, by police12:18
wpwrakyuck. and why police ? neighbours didn't like your explosives ?12:19
DocScrutinizer05nah, in the early 80s "political" reasons, in the late 80s, mid 90s for collecting ticket fees12:20
DocScrutinizer05yes, they did such stuff12:20
wpwrakwow, must have been some tickets12:21
DocScrutinizer05knock 5:30 in the morning, break/lockpick the door, pull you out of your bed and tell you you either pay those 20EUR ticket now or you go to prison until you did12:21
DocScrutinizer05I don't like police, and they don't like me12:22
larscnot with that attitude12:22
wpwrak"Die Polizei – Dein Freund und Helfer" - since at least 1926 ...12:25
DocScrutinizer05well, once another of my landlords, a real gangster, simply broke open the door of my flat and had *everything* removed by a transporter/trucking, while I was at work (that sucker tried to make all lodgers go away so he could refurbish and sell the house for a good price). When I came home and found the door open and flat empty I called police who simply did *nothing* except letting me know that it's probably me who's at fault12:27
wpwrakwith that sort of police, who needs criminals ?12:29
DocScrutinizer05unlike me, that landlord actually did 2+ years in jail for exactly similar stuff, yet police told me "well, there will be a reason why somebody - or even your landlord - removed your stuff. Have a nice day"12:29
DocScrutinizer05after this event I moved to a new flat (obviously), whose landlord thought it's OK to break my door lock since he wanted to visit the flat. sure he is allowed to visit my flat, but only when I open the door for him12:32
DocScrutinizer05after that I got me a P912:33
DocScrutinizer05now I have the best landlord you can possibly find, and a nice little house with a awesome garden. But _some_ shit happens every year, inevitably12:34
wpwrakyou seem to be very lucky with your landlords12:34
wpwrakyeah, better a sleepy yoga lady than a bunch of gangsters12:35
DocScrutinizer05dang, 90 minutes already since bike got stolen, and still my adrenaline increases instead of normalizing12:36
wpwrakah well, take a beer and watch some "dirty harry" movie, that'll help to relax12:58
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: got disconnected13:00
whitequarkwhy do you miss photos? there are literally hundreds of photos on instructables page13:00
whitequarkthis one: http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-high-resolution-3D-DLP-printer-3D-printer/13:01
DocScrutinizer05seems I look at a different page than you13:01
whitequarkit's linked from hackaday page13:01
DocScrutinizer05http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-high-resolution-3D-DLP-printer-3D-printer/ has exactly one photo for me, of a 3D printout13:04
whitequarktry "view all steps" button13:07
whitequarka bit below the text and photos13:07
wpwrakgrmbl. fooled by blx again.13:17
wpwrak"Branch with link, and exchange instruction set." on ARM13:20
wpwrakif the LSb is clear, this changes to the ARM instruction set. if it is set, it changes to Thumb13:20
wpwrakit's important to bear this in mind when constructing your own function pointers, since a merry jump to &function will not do what you expect ...13:21
wpwrakwell, in the case of ptr = &fn, it should. but not if you make things a bit more complicated13:22
wpwraklike, in a boot loader13:22
larscwhy would your function not be aligned to 32bit?13:27
whitequarklarsc: you want bootloader to be in Thumb to make it smaller13:28
whitequarkhence, must not forget to set the low bit. and the address itself is aligned, of course.13:28
wpwrakwell, it is. but the cortex m0+ only has thumb ...13:28
whitequarkthough I don't know how wpwrak manages to miss that; all ways to get a function pointer I know set that bit13:28
whitequarkincluding assembly13:28
larscah, ok I assumed it switched to thumb when it shouldnt13:29
larscthe other way around makes more sense13:29
larscwhitequark: maybe he jumps in the middle of a function13:29
wpwrakwhitequark: well, it's actually  ptr = APP_BASE;  :)  where APP_BASE is the offset the application has13:30
whitequarkah... that's probably the only way13:30
whitequarklarsc: assembler would set the low bit if you refer to a label. and how else would you get an address to jump?13:30
wpwrakto be "safe", i would have had to define a suitable symbol in the linker, declare that a function, etc.13:30
whitequarkyep, that's how I'd do that13:31
wpwrakbut now it works. mission accomplished :)13:31
larscwhitequark: do math operations on the label13:33
whitequarklarsc: do you know a single case when that's simpler than something else?13:35
whitequark(btw, if you only add/subtract whole instructions, that won't throw off the T bit)13:35
larscno, but you never know what kind of crazy ideas wpwrak has13:42
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: aah, that funny stuff14:01
DocScrutinizer05we had much fun with it in N900, since the OMAP3530 has a si-err that makes your whole stuff go BOOM when you try to switch between instr sets14:02
wpwrakah yes, much fun to be had with this sort of bug :)14:25
whitequarkow ow ow ow ow14:56
Action: whitequark tried to make an attachment for his vacuum cleaner to add a corrugated hose to suck in chips14:56
whitequarkand I accidentally make it into a giant whistle14:56
whitequarkjudging by the pain, it's *at least* 100dB14:56
DocScrutinizer05why do you want to suck in chips?15:05
whitequarkbecause I don't want them all over... well... everything?15:05
DocScrutinizer05sounds a bit weird unless it's potato chips spilled on the floor15:05
whitequarkright now I just keep vacuum cleaner hose manually near the cutter15:06
whitequarkbut this gets tiresome fast15:06
DocScrutinizer05sounds like http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/impressions-of-25C3/15:08
DocScrutinizer05I know of component placer tools that work with vacuum to pick up the chips, but they don't suck them in15:10
whitequarkohh no15:10
whitequark"chip" is material cut by endmill15:10
DocScrutinizer05yay, what a mess15:11
DocScrutinizer05ooh, would you want a handfull of those chips like http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/impressions-of-25C3/ from that bag full of them I got somewhere, to practice Galden soldering BGA stuff?15:14
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: mhmm seems a bit bothersome for you to send them to me from DE15:15
Action: DocScrutinizer05 still wonders where to get that dirty harry video from15:16
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: why? I throw them into an envelope and write your addr and place a stamp on it15:17
whitequarkthough maybe it makes sense. Think I threw out all my BGA scrap on my previous relocation15:17
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: then it would be very nice of you :)15:17
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140323_001.jpg http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140323_002.jpg http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140323_003.jpg  OK? or need more?15:25
DocScrutinizer05just tell me when you really can use more of them15:26
DocScrutinizer05and /msg your full(!) addr please15:28
DocScrutinizer05sso I can C&P and print it out and attach it to the envelope15:28
DocScrutinizer05or do you rather want a few hundred of those small critters too - I think it's FETs or sth15:30
DocScrutinizer05or transistors15:31
DocScrutinizer05some more http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140323_005.jpg http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140323_007.jpg http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140323_008.jpg http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140323_009.jpg15:47
DocScrutinizer05now don't frustrate me by not sending your addr15:47
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: ^^^15:48
whitequarksorry, was away making clamps15:51
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: hmm, you're sending me chips in factory packaging?15:52
whitequarkmaybe you'll even say they work?15:52
whitequarkwell... doesn't matter. it's more convenient to store them this way15:55
whitequarkso.. thanks15:55
whitequarkyour camera is pretty good. N900?15:55
whitequarkwpwrak: adding to our earlier acrylic discussion. today I found 1000mmx1500mm sheets for about $30 each15:57
whitequarkthat seems a good price, except I have no clue how to carry that over public transport15:57
whitequarksince my only alternative is 500x300mm sheets for $15 each I think I'll find a way15:58
DocScrutinizer05yep, N900 cam15:59
DocScrutinizer05more convenient to upload to share-service16:00
wpwrakwhitequark: did you ask then if they can cut them for you ? they may also sell smaller pieces even if they only list the large sheets they get from the factory16:11
whitequarkwpwrak: it's a wholesale store. Leroy Merlin if you heard16:15
whitequarkthey seem to be internationally known16:15
whitequarkthey can cut it, but only by one axis. doesn't help very much16:15
wpwrak1 m x small sounds manageable16:16
whitequarkand no, apparently they require you to buy whole sheet before cutting. my guess is they reduce the losses on pieces no one wants this way16:16
DocScrutinizer05I however think even 100*150 is manageable16:22
DocScrutinizer05depending on situation in you rpublic transport16:22
DocScrutinizer05or cut it up into two pieces, either 100*75 or 150*50, whaever is better to handle by you16:24
DocScrutinizer05ok, hope that envelope doesn't cant in the post machinery16:26
DocScrutinizer05two stamps a -.58 should suffice I guess16:27
whitequarkno clue. isn't it by weight?16:32
DocScrutinizer05weight and size16:33
Action: DocScrutinizer05 puts a 3. stamp on16:35
whitequark3 EUR? that sounds like a lot16:37
DocScrutinizer05nah, 3* -.5816:41
DocScrutinizer05http://www.portokalkulator.de/portokalkulator/std?length=bis+23%2C5+cm&width=bis+12%2C5+cm&shiptype=umschlag&height=bis+%3Cb%3E5%3C%2Fb%3E+mm&weight=bis+50+g&pkcformula=nat.brief   +  destination Russia16:44
DocScrutinizer05I got no scales16:45
whitequarkseems like you can order a mark electronically and print it as a qrcode? that's really cool16:45
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: yep, that should work, but I bet only on windoof16:47
DocScrutinizer05they want to make sure you don't print it twice16:48
whitequarkI bet they just give you a PDF to print in response. why would you ever want to involve your OS in that?16:48
whitequarksurely they know that scanners exist?16:48
DocScrutinizer05I'd not bet a penny on DeuteschePost IT16:48
whitequarkstate-run postal services seem to be universally hated round the world, aren't they?16:48
DocScrutinizer05they are particularly one thing: stupid and on a technical level of last millenium16:49
whitequarkclaim to support linux16:49
whitequarkwell, of course. they write below that only thing you need is something to read PDFs16:50
whitequarkthe only proper way to prevent stamp cloning is a crypto signature on every single stamp16:50
whitequarkI bet that is exactly what they did16:50
DocScrutinizer05you still need a fast global database16:51
whitequarknot that hard... encode cost+unique id+sha1 signature in the qr code. you need about 30 bytes16:51
whitequarkwell, yes. but considering only thing it needs is to check 64-bit numbers for uniqueness, it's not hard by any measure16:51
whitequarkyou could write it in fucking JavaScript and put on a single server and it'll still work16:52
DocScrutinizer05given their sorters do >1000 envelopes per minute, it maybe is16:52
whitequarklet me just tell you that this kind of problem is solved for a bunch of years16:52
whitequarksince webdev is more or less what I get paid, I know a thing or two about backend tech16:53
whitequark*get paid for16:53
DocScrutinizer05RTT od <20ms? WAN16:53
whitequarkok... you'll have to run replicas on every sorter16:53
DocScrutinizer05that won't help to stop one letter in every sorter passing with a stamp clone16:54
whitequarkhow are you going to make them go into sorter at exact same time?16:54
whitequarkand if they achieve consistency in, say, 1 minute after sorting a letter, which is NOT hard, you're already covered16:54
DocScrutinizer05I don't say it can't work. I just say it's not easy, particularly when a Post-drone wrote the specs16:55
whitequarkI mean, you don't even need ideal catch rate. you just need to make cost of tricking the system higher than cost of stamps16:55
whitequarksure. they maybe can hire one guy with a brain16:55
whitequarkthat's more than enough16:55
DocScrutinizer05that's not how those entities make decisions16:55
whitequarkyou should deal with RU post for a few months, DE post will become heaven to you then :p16:56
DocScrutinizer05mind you, 30 years ago it was a *crime* to connect your own equipment to the telephone jack here in Germany16:56
DocScrutinizer05and they outright denied stuff like 9600baud modems could ever work16:57
whitequarkI know. and not only in germany afaik. US started with this shit16:57
whitequarkbecause your phone was actually property of telco16:58
whitequarkfortunately someone with half a brain in the govt killed that monopoly16:58
DocScrutinizer05they argued on a technical level, claiming that your equipment could make the whole system explode16:59
whitequarkI'm sure they knew well that it isn't true but fought to protect their monopoly17:00
whitequarkand control17:00
DocScrutinizer05FAX needed to get registered, to avoid somebody calling your number not knowing about the FAX there and then falling dead from shock when it starts beepng17:00
DocScrutinizer05and the FAX ID had to get coded into the device by post employee, to avoid forgery17:01
DocScrutinizer059k6 modems (from USA, ZyXEL back when) were outright forbidden, they said it would ruin the german phone network, creating crosstalk to other lines17:02
DocScrutinizer05or check out BTX and cept17:03
whitequarkdidn't they even use twisted pair?17:03
DocScrutinizer05sure they do and always did17:03
whitequarkthen their claim is absurd17:04
DocScrutinizer05Post is absurd17:04
whitequarkbasic physics17:04
DocScrutinizer05it's "we haven't finished internal evaluation yet, so it's considered dangerous"17:05
DocScrutinizer05and those modems could do stuff like automatically dial numbers :-O17:06
DocScrutinizer05even with 11 or 12 pulses, or DT;F A-D17:06
whitequarkyes, you could make someone's life hell17:07
DocScrutinizer05Post had a darknet on <11>0.... for almost 100 years17:07
whitequarkI did that once, using a GSM modem in fact. was surprised no one at telco blocked me after a ~day of such network abuse17:07
whitequark(don't ask why :p)17:08
DocScrutinizer05old POST phones (for internal use) had a double-0 eleventh hole in the rotary dial17:08
whitequarkwait, 100 years?! that's neat17:08
DocScrutinizer05not really but almost17:08
DocScrutinizer05for sure 5017:08
DocScrutinizer05"00" been the internal always-free out-of-band line between exchanges17:09
DocScrutinizer05and there been even a <12> level17:10
DocScrutinizer05twelfe pulses17:10
DocScrutinizer05you could call it "000"17:10
DocScrutinizer05I suspect that been for technical service17:11
whitequarkwe need to go deeper17:11
whitequarkalso I suggest calling them A, B, ...17:11
DocScrutinizer05switching dudes always can intercept any established call. "<beep beep> Sorry sir, there's an international R-call for you! do you want to accept?"17:12
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if they used <11> or <12> level for that17:14
DocScrutinizer05reverse charging17:14
DocScrutinizer05you pay the fee 17:14
Action: whitequark is so happy he lives in the age of VoIP17:15
DocScrutinizer05post rules say there's a mandatory beep tone when the switching taps your call, but it's known there are ways to avoid that tone17:16
whitequarkbeen using my Moscow direct number attached to SIP the whole time I was in Dublin, for maybe a buck per hour17:16
DocScrutinizer05I did same in Taipei17:16
whitequarknot to mention my SIP provider actually selects the nearest gateway and charges you same price regardless of whoever you call17:17
whitequarkwherever in the world they are17:17
DocScrutinizer05alas .tw internet is just too crappy for VoIP17:17
whitequarkwell, almost same17:17
whitequarkeh? I used SIP while on EDGE (!)17:17
DocScrutinizer05particularly international links17:17
whitequarkexcept for really bad latency it was fine17:17
whitequarkin fact I think SIP codec is more efficient than GSM itself, so even after IP overhead there's still some space left in a single GPRS slot17:18
DocScrutinizer05depends on codec17:18
DocScrutinizer05iLBC might17:18
whitequarkand LTE here in Moscow even has latency (bandwidth too) comparable to landline, i.e. basically none17:18
DocScrutinizer05I forgot about that stuff when twinkle gone zombie state17:19
whitequarkI use linphone. it's shitty but it works17:20
whitequarkwell, on desktop. on android it doesn't. no echo cancellation whatsoever17:20
whitequarkof course that is unusable17:20
DocScrutinizer05I wish somebody would write a qt4 GUI for twinkle core17:20
DocScrutinizer05or even qtm17:21
whitequarkdoesn't sound very hard17:21
DocScrutinizer05whatever the recent hype17:21
DocScrutinizer05I wonder whether to write "electronic junk for practicing" on the envelope17:23
whitequark"used electronics"17:23
whitequarkis the usual thing to write17:23
DocScrutinizer05so your customs doesn't start to check how much is one S3C2442 or similar17:24
Action: whitequark ponders how to debug said BGA soldering17:24
whitequarkI know a guy with a homebrew xray machine... never thought that'll come in handy17:24
DocScrutinizer05or simply delaminate the PCB17:24
whitequarknot sure whether it can make nice pictures though. likely not17:24
whitequarkyep, could work as well. especially with pbfree, which I guess I will have to use17:25
DocScrutinizer05sand paper17:25
whitequarkuh. how do you call a set of wires joined together in plastic?17:28
whitequarkdictionary fails me17:28
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I get a weird error on this URL17:28
whitequarkhttp://www.brownbear.ru/foto/foto/110022.jpg ?17:29
DocScrutinizer05I call that a flat ribbon cable17:31
whitequarkthat's it, thanks17:31
whitequarkit's funny. this one has a six-color rainbow AND is sold in russia17:32
whitequarkguess my line of thinking17:32
DocScrutinizer05you shouldn't order this cable, rather try to find one with onyl red white blue17:36
DocScrutinizer05might even come for free, Putin paing for it17:37
whitequarksadly some of our MPs could say literally that, and not even be sarcastic a little tiny bit17:37
whitequarkmost of them17:37
whitequarkI mean, they recently managed to ban a *mathematics textbook* because it was, wait for it17:38
whitequarkI'm fucking outta here17:38
whitequarkit really feels like someone swapped our news outlets with the onion17:39
DocScrutinizer05it's always same. first find a sufficiently small minority inside your own people and define them as "they", beat them up or imprison or kill them, the rest is "us" and will be happy with it17:42
whitequarkI know.17:43
DocScrutinizer05or, if you can't find a dispensable national minority, use some other nation as "them"17:43
whitequarkbtw did I tell? I recently *accidentally* discovered that my passport has an embedded NFC chip18:13
whitequarkwith absolutely no indication whatsoever18:14
whitequarkgiven NFC can be read from 10m... scary18:14
DocScrutinizer05nothing a microwave can't fix18:15
DocScrutinizer05mine as well has RFID chip, but it's clearly tagged on the outside even18:15
whitequarkwell... seems to be marginally useful, e.g. lufthansa checkin terminals seem to be able to read it18:16
whitequarkor maybe they scan the letters, I don't know. there's some optics. but it's dumb to use optics if you can use NFC18:16
larscin the UK you can use the RFID at border controler18:41
larscthe checkin terminals typically just scan the letters18:42
Action: DocScrutinizer05 HMM's @ http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3355 - searches the "OFF" pin22:49
DocScrutinizer05actually that R7/R8 divider directly on V(in) already disqualifies the design for my purposes22:51
DocScrutinizer05maybe PFI pin could get abused to work as "OFF", so the chip doesn't draw *any* measurable quiescent current from V(in)?22:59
DocScrutinizer05then, OTOH, we probably don't even want that complete shutdown, the twl4030 bupbat shouldn't usually power the RTC, we would want battery connected directly and losslessly to V(in) of TWL4030, when system powered down23:01
DocScrutinizer05I wonder if those allegedly max 0.42mA quiescent current the chip may consume are tolerable for a device with LiIon battery depleted to 3.0V needing to power RTC for another several weeks until device gets recharged23:03
DocScrutinizer05shouldn't discharge battery further to V(LiIon-kill-cell)23:04
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: putting your letter to the letterbox. o/23:07
wpwrakdoesn't the battery generally have a "hard" built-in cut-off ?23:08
wpwrake.g., the gta02 battery had such a thing23:08
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