whitequark | whereas FeCl3, CuCl2 and others apparently do not | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
whitequark | that'll explain a few things | 00:00 |
whitequark | DocScrutinizer05: hm, wild idea | 00:36 |
whitequark | retrofit an used inkjet to print silkscreen right on pcb | 00:37 |
whitequark | wow, russian forums seem to be chock full of people making amazing PCBs | 00:39 |
whitequark | http://electronix.ru/forum/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=60175 | 00:39 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ((retrofit an used inkjet)) seems I already suggested that? | 00:41 |
DocScrutinizer05 | actually mounting the inkjet print head to your CNC will be way more convenient | 00:42 |
whitequark | hmm | 00:43 |
whitequark | well I still have no idea for sanely attaching *anything* to my CNC | 00:44 |
wpwrak | (more acid research) i heard HF is fun, too. and it's not HCl, so you don't have to be afraid of it ;-) | 00:47 |
Action: whitequark slaps wpwrak around a bit with a large trout | 00:51 | |
whitequark | also I didn't mention acid even once | 00:51 |
whitequark | I actually found a fascinating basic method of etching, using copper ammonia complexes | 00:51 |
whitequark | but I'm reluctant to check it out because 1) basic solutions degrade resist 2) it involves using about 0.5L of ammonia water | 00:52 |
wpwrak | speaking of FUN, did you know that UF4 + 3 UN + 1/2 N2 -> 4 UNF aka FUN ? :) | 00:52 |
whitequark | I can't even imagine that horrendous stench | 00:52 |
whitequark | no | 00:53 |
whitequark | and I don't really want to enrich uranium | 00:53 |
wpwrak | hmm, i didn't find NH3 too repulsive. but maybe that was just because there weren't a lot of cats around to serve as reference | 00:54 |
wpwrak | (uranium) c'mon. if you keep on talking like this, they'll revoke your russian citizenship | 00:54 |
whitequark | wpwrak: well, seems like you haven't worked with 30% NH3 then | 00:56 |
whitequark | when I got it I wondered how it smells. despite doing everything properly I got some experience I will likely never forget | 00:56 |
whitequark | not entirely unlike being punched in head | 00:57 |
wpwrak | dunno how strong it was. this kind of critter: http://wunderbare80er.blogspot.com.ar/2011/10/kosmos-chemiebaukasten.html | 00:58 |
wpwrak | but you had to get the liquids from a pharmacy | 00:58 |
whitequark | not sure. my one is from a chemical supplier. pharmacies most likely don't sell such concentrated solutions | 00:59 |
whitequark | diluted 5-10x (and with concentration further reduced by complex forming) the stench is entirely reasonable | 01:00 |
wpwrak | hah, found it. NH3, 25% | 01:02 |
whitequark | sounds about right | 01:05 |
wpwrak | H2SO4 30%, HNO3 30%, HCl 20% (sissies !), NaOH 25%, and NH3 25% | 01:06 |
whitequark | so... you can smell that and not wish you'd rather be dead? | 01:06 |
whitequark | hah, concentrated HNO3. what for? | 01:06 |
wpwrak | everything from the pharmacy, almost next door, in switzerland | 01:06 |
whitequark | hmmm | 01:06 |
whitequark | wow | 01:06 |
whitequark | I thought europe regulated the shit out of chemical supplies | 01:06 |
whitequark | okay, I'm now definitely more happy about possible relocation to EU :D | 01:06 |
wpwrak | yummy goodies like AgNO3, BaCl2, and K2Cr2O7 came already with the box :) | 01:08 |
whitequark | K2Cr2O7!! | 01:09 |
whitequark | I certainly hope you read the MSDS for that :p | 01:09 |
whitequark | btw, I just had an idea | 01:10 |
whitequark | EU and US regulate the crap out of hypophosphite | 01:10 |
wpwrak | well, it had a warning label "Attention, toxic !" :) | 01:10 |
whitequark | but it is likely that they don't care about dilute solutions of hypophosphite | 01:10 |
whitequark | so maybe it's possible to mail that | 01:10 |
whitequark | wpwrak: (toxic) nah. well, it is, but worse, it's a very potent carcinogen | 01:11 |
whitequark | would be sad to lose you so quickly | 01:11 |
Action: wpwrak - upon realizing what he has done decades ago - croaks instantly | 01:13 | |
wpwrak | HNO3 ... dunno. can't find a complete manual online :( | 01:14 |
whitequark | wpwrak: what have you done? | 01:24 |
whitequark | lemme guess, bichromate volcano? | 01:24 |
wpwrak | heh, that would have been fun :) | 01:25 |
whitequark | FSVO fun... *shrug* | 01:25 |
Action: whitequark tries to thermally decompose hypophosphite now | 01:25 | |
wpwrak | i actually did experiment with a bit of volcanoes but i think i stayed with relatively safe chemicals | 01:26 |
whitequark | wow, appears to have worked | 01:27 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ((30% NH3)) I did. Iodine Ammonia | 01:28 |
whitequark | well no doubts here | 01:28 |
whitequark | :D | 01:28 |
DocScrutinizer05 | fun when eyes start burning and tears flow | 01:29 |
whitequark | we tried to do this in HS, but it didn't get quite dry enough or something | 01:29 |
whitequark | so it failed | 01:29 |
DocScrutinizer05 | and that stuff can really make you feel like suffocating | 01:29 |
DocScrutinizer05 | backside of usual bathroom tiles is *great* fro drying Iodine Ammonia | 01:30 |
DocScrutinizer05 | but you really should open all windows ;-) | 01:30 |
DocScrutinizer05 | for several very good reasons | 01:30 |
whitequark | well, in HS we had a proper hume food | 01:30 |
whitequark | er | 01:30 |
whitequark | fume ohod | 01:30 |
whitequark | hood | 01:30 |
whitequark | guess I really need to chew something | 01:30 |
DocScrutinizer05 | weirdest experience been when that stuff started smoking while drying | 01:31 |
whitequark | unreacted iodine? | 01:31 |
DocScrutinizer05 | possibly | 01:31 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I created saturated KaJ + J solution | 01:32 |
DocScrutinizer05 | maybe it tripped the saturation point when KaJ got diluted in Ammonia | 01:32 |
wpwrak | ah, and i produced a bit of air freshener at school. H2S. now i know that i got off very lightly ;-) | 01:32 |
whitequark | mhmm | 01:35 |
whitequark | possible | 01:35 |
whitequark | http://imgur.com/MLpvFNE,dgR3UFy,BDLgINm | 01:37 |
DocScrutinizer05 | fun OT factoid (that maybe shows a bit about my life): 12 months ago my energy supplier calculated monthly downpay for me, based on previous 12 months, now they recalculated based on last 12 months. Difference: 1,3% | 01:54 |
whitequark | not sure what it menas | 01:55 |
whitequark | *means | 01:55 |
DocScrutinizer05 | seems always-on of a few IT and LED lamps results in an amazingly constant over-all consumption. I only wonder how my 28kW waterheater comes in there | 01:56 |
whitequark | LED lamps, didn't you rant here about incandescent quite a bit? | 01:57 |
DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I said it's a pity they are not available anymore | 01:58 |
whitequark | ah | 01:59 |
Action: whitequark uses fluorescent... couldn't quite find good LED lamps for my socket | 01:59 | |
DocScrutinizer05 | when I really started ranting then about Hg-filled "energy saver" FL lamps | 01:59 |
DocScrutinizer05 | which go dark after a year at most, when they don't break completely before that timespan | 02:00 |
DocScrutinizer05 | last time my fuse tripped been from a energysaver CFL-lamp | 02:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ | 02:01 |
whitequark | mhm, maybe I'm less sensitive, but these CFL lamps don't burn out in a year | 02:01 |
whitequark | in a five maybe | 02:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | maybe yours are better quality. Russian quality? ;-) | 02:01 |
whitequark | chinese ofcourse | 02:02 |
DocScrutinizer05 | well, I used up three of those critters during last 5 years | 02:02 |
whitequark | russia maybe does only those huge lamps used in street lights, or maybe those long rods you see in industrial/government buildings | 02:02 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I think two failed after maybe 1000h | 02:02 |
whitequark | they seem pretty simple to fuck up | 02:02 |
DocScrutinizer05 | umm, s/CFL/CCFL/ ? | 02:03 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Cold Cathode | 02:03 |
whitequark | ccfl | 02:03 |
DocScrutinizer05 | though *some* of those energywaster have even heated cathodes | 02:04 |
whitequark | I know a guy who was anal enough about lighting that he bought a quartz lamp somewhere overseas, rated for I don't even know how much kW | 02:05 |
whitequark | when asked, he told me "I like my workplace brightly lit" | 02:05 |
whitequark | well a week after he bought it, he got a visit from law enforcement. door torn from his hands or even broken (can't remember), him lying face down on the floor | 02:06 |
whitequark | turns out similar lamps (with different spectrum) are used to grow cannabis, and his package tripped something at customs | 02:07 |
DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 02:10 |
DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, those HQL are fine for growing plants | 02:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | but, honestly, way too bright for working | 02:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | well, mine was an insane 400W | 02:12 |
DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.mueller-licht.de/en/lamps/energy-saving-lamps/spiral-shape-e27 comes with pre-heating, so no CC | 02:12 |
DocScrutinizer05 | they need to do this since they use amalgam instead of liquid pure Hg | 02:13 |
DocScrutinizer05 | aiui | 02:13 |
DocScrutinizer05 | kinda works | 02:14 |
DocScrutinizer05 | IOW that one shines since 2 years 24/7 almost | 02:14 |
DocScrutinizer05 | with ~5 on/off sycles per day | 02:14 |
DocScrutinizer05 | 2 Phillips, 2 Osram, and one Pleomax are waiting for getting discarded | 02:16 |
DocScrutinizer05 | 3 orsram | 02:16 |
DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 02:17 |
DocScrutinizer05 | makes more than one per year | 02:17 |
DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, any detals about that etching magics? | 02:46 |
DocScrutinizer05 | details | 02:46 |
whitequark | DocScrutinizer05: working on it right now | 04:47 |
whitequark | DocScrutinizer05: in some 40 mins I'll take pcb out of plating bath | 04:50 |
whitequark | we'll see then | 04:50 |
whitequark | DocScrutinizer05: you know what is most impressive | 04:54 |
whitequark | I didn't use any copper brightener whatsoever, neither I added acid or NaCl to the bath | 04:54 |
whitequark | yet the copper layer seems to be pretty smooth so far | 04:54 |
whitequark | luck? | 04:54 |
whitequark | I mean, I basically go against any established principles of copper plating | 04:54 |
whitequark | (because I'm lazy and I don't have any acid right now) | 04:55 |
whitequark | I wonder why current has grown from .15mA to .25mA over last 30 mins | 05:07 |
whitequark | ok, should be done | 05:54 |
whitequark | ... | 05:56 |
whitequark | seems like it worked \o/ | 05:56 |
whitequark | wow, I didn't even expect this | 05:56 |
whitequark | how the fuck do I take a photo of an 1mm hole?! | 05:58 |
whitequark | http://imgur.com/bBW2Cd2,FfsoIT5 | 06:02 |
whitequark | that is, um, a rather odd result | 06:03 |
whitequark | actually there was so much copper plated that holes became too small! | 06:03 |
whitequark | seems like I need a more even layer of activation solution on board | 06:06 |
whitequark | wpwrak: DocScrutinizer05: https://code.google.com/p/rtstepperemc/ | 07:20 |
whitequark | basically exactly what I wanted to do with EMC2 | 07:20 |
whitequark | though I wonder if it even works | 07:20 |
wpwrak | sounds sweet :) | 08:19 |
whitequark | wpwrak: how do you deal with burr around drilled holes in pcbs? | 09:22 |
whitequark | I have a rather extreme problem with it | 09:22 |
whitequark | in fact some of the raised edges I have are almost 1mm in height | 09:22 |
wpwrak | whitequark: burr ? in holes ? never heard of it :) | 11:03 |
wpwrak | at least not for the small ones, for vias. may be different if i made huge holes | 11:04 |
wpwrak | burr is usually favoured by dull cutting edges. maybe weak fixtures may also be a factor (though mine aren't exactly fortresses) | 11:06 |
whitequark | no, around holes | 11:31 |
whitequark | lifted copper around them on both sides | 11:31 |
whitequark | hrmm... I may have had some limited success with plating | 11:36 |
whitequark | but solder sure as hell isn't pulled by capillary effect into those holes | 11:36 |
whitequark | meaning they're unsuitable for actual work. | 11:36 |
whitequark | guess I need to figure out the proper bath finally. | 11:36 |
whitequark | interesting though; while the plated layer does come off in flakes, it requires quite some muscular effort to do so | 11:37 |
whitequark | e.g. I would say the force is comparable with force required to tear off factory laminated copper, if you have a lifted corner | 11:37 |
whitequark | (in flakes) i.e. it nevertheless bonds to itself much stronger than to underlying copper or dielectric | 11:38 |
wpwrak | (drill) what Z speed do you use ? | 11:40 |
zrafa | wpwrak: yes, but in libswd/ we have cc25*.c which is built by Makefile and used by ben.c . So I needed to comment those parts of ben.c so I can build the swd software to try with our mcu | 12:19 |
zrafa | without CC* stuff | 12:20 |
wpwrak | well, you could just leave it in and ignore it. it doesn't get in the way. | 12:29 |
kristianpaul | wpwrak: What waveform generator do you have? | 16:57 |
wpwrak | picotest g5100a | 17:29 |
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