#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2014-02-25

nicksydneywpwrak: which footprint you normally use for Balun ?01:20
wpwrak0805-6, from ben-wpan/modules/02:34
wpwrakbtw, this is a nice comparison between the 1052 (old) and the 2xx2 (new):: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TSr9nFN1GU02:49
wpwraksome things he says are obsolete, but the overall comparison is still interesting. also, the 1000Z wasn't out yet back then.02:50
wpwrakbtw, this is a nice comparison between the 1052 (old) and the 2xx2 (new):: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TSr9nFN1GU02:51
wpwraksome things he says are obsolete, but the overall comparison is still interesting. also, the 1000Z wasn't out yet back then.02:51
nicksydneywpwrak: thanks for the footprint03:05
nicksydneybit lost looking at this datasheet http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/C8051T622-23-T326-27.pdf  .. does this mean that this is a normal MCU like KL25/26 or it is only a USB IC chip ?03:06
wpwrakseems to be general-purpose03:09
nicksydneyif it says "USB Function Controller" that means the MCU supports USB out of the box correct ?03:13
nicksydneyahh yes pg 17 shows the diagram of connecting USB03:14
nicksydneythe question is how do we program this tiny baby :)03:14
nicksydneyseems like mouse is selling the daughtercard for this IC http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Silicon-Labs/C8051T327DB28/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuur7c7MCGU2DP8l2OptDKm03:16
wpwrakwhy pick this 8051 ? wouldn't you rather use an ARM ?03:19
nicksydneywpwrak: i was just curious ... what it takes to program one of this baby03:20
nicksydneywpwrak: ARM is better of course :)03:20
wpwrakwell, you need a fancy voltage and something that speaks the C2 protocol03:20
nicksydneyC2 protocol ?03:21
nicksydneyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C2 ?03:21
nicksydneyahh no this https://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/C2spec.pdf03:22
wpwrakyup, that one :)03:22
nicksydneyso that what kind of format normally the final file after compiling .. is like the .hex in AVR ?03:23
wpwrakdepends on what you generate :) e.g., i think my C2 tools want a binary: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/f32xbase/source/tree/master/03:23
wpwrakbut that was a long time aho. i wuoldn't use these chips nowadays03:24
nicksydneywakks...you have used this baby before :)03:25
nicksydneyany special compiler or just GCC will do ?03:26
wpwrakit's an 8051, so you need sdcc (or commercial compilers)03:26
nicksydneythis one http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/ 03:27
nicksydneyhttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/f32xbase/source/tree/master/ not coming out...server DDOS ?03:27
nicksydneyahhh very late the page shows up03:28
nicksydneyhmmm..checking out the code for that project ..the server is very slow :(03:30
nicksydneywpwrak: in what project you were using that IC ?03:31
wpwrakidbg and also ben-wpan/cntr/03:32
nicksydneywill look to idbg03:33
nicksydneywpwrak: are you able to checkout code from the server qi-hardware.com03:34
nicksydneymine stuc03:34
wpwrakcommitted earlier today without problems. servers are sometimes a little fragile03:34
nicksydneymm :()03:35
nicksydneyC8051 series costs less than a buck03:39
shevekIs that in volume, or even single pieces?03:41
nicksydneyshevek: single03:42
nicksydneywpwrak: was thinking was if package an OLED with a LED driver and allow it to be driven using I2C .. does it make sense ?03:43
wpwrakwell, depends ... of course, the oled already does SPI, so you could use that03:46
nicksydneywpwrak: this kind of IC http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/cp2104.pdf is normally a "pure" usb chip correct ?03:52
nicksydneywpwrak: so when we plug board that has that chip to linux it will be identified using 'lsusb' correct ?03:53
shevekYes, I've used that one and it worked without a problem, similar to an FTDI chip.03:53
shevekOr maybe not.03:54
shevekI used https://www.sparkfun.com/products/19803:54
shevekWhich is CP2102.03:54
shevekIt seems to be very similar, though.03:55
nicksydneyshevek: yeah looks similar04:22
nicksydneyshevek: when you tried that chip what kind of USB id does it show when doing lsusb ?04:37
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: tektronix 456 sells on avito for about $100 ;D05:25
whitequarkahh, it's broken though05:26
nicksydneywifi card such as this http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-RALINK-RT5390-Half-mini-Wireless-N-Card-Acer-Asus-Dell-Toshiba-Sony-/251273254655?pt=US_Internal_Network_Cards&hash=item3a810d96ff are pretty cheap would be good to be used for a project05:42
nicksydneythe problem is most of the driver are in Linux 05:42
nicksydneyso can't be used in project using Cortex-M series05:43
nicksydneyinteresting http://nut-bolt.nl/2012/carambola/05:47
nicksydneyhmm...seems like a faster process that can run around 320Mhz or above + OpenWRT will do the trick 05:48
nicksydneyspec for carambola2 http://8devices.com/media/files/8dev-0700_0002_sb_SCH.pdf05:59
nicksydneyahhh so wifi uses 2.4ghz and even receiver like nordic also 2.4ghz so the difference is the comm protocol between the 2 devices that differentiate it06:11
nicksydneyso that means we can even create a 2.4ghz module from scratch and determine what protocol we want to communicate with the other end06:12
nicksydneyahhh this is better http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/arduino-Yun-schematic.pdf can see the big picture now06:19
nicksydneyPCB factory porn http://www.designboom.com/technology/arduino-factory-tour/06:43
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: did you check your CNC?07:57
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: btw Galden droplet test finished. I can't *see* any more of the liquid, which doesn't mean it vanished. Rather I guess it simply spreaded across the glass so much that it became invisible07:59
DocScrutinizer05I might try some powder and see if it sticks somewhere07:59
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: no scope, duh09:09
nicksydneyinteresting topic on Telegram protocol http://unhandledexpression.com/2013/12/17/telegram-stand-back-we-know-maths/09:30
nicksydneysomeone from Russia found a weak spot for it http://habrahabr.ru/post/206900/09:30
whitequarkyeah, I don't know what they made it for, except a serious case of NIH09:31
whitequarkoverall telegram is just a whatsapp clone, like durov's previous project, vk.com--a facebook clone09:31
nicksydneyyeah it's a clone09:32
nicksydneyclever how that guy was able to find the flaw09:33
nicksydneyhttp://mobilecg.hu/ now open sourced09:34
nicksydneywpwrak: more ARM Cortex M0+  http://atmelcorporation.wordpress.com/2014/02/19/atmel-announces-embedded-world-lineup%E2%80%A8%E2%80%A8/?relatedposts_exclude=792712:11
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: oh you mean, check it with soundcard scope12:19
wpwrakyou should look at NXP. they have even more ARMs ;-)12:28
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: maybe even just start with probing voltages on motor coils. Check them right after power up of controller, with no PC attached12:42
DocScrutinizer05check the optocoupler output levels12:43
DocScrutinizer05should all be same with no PC attached, right?12:43
whitequarkyes, they're pulled up at lpt side12:43
DocScrutinizer05ooh, those are only for output?12:44
DocScrutinizer05anyway, check them, I seen them going nuts several times12:44
whitequarkwell, there are optocouples for input too12:44
whitequarkbut they're not relevant here12:44
DocScrutinizer05for some weird reason optocouplers seem not be the most reliable of all conponents12:44
DocScrutinizer05why do you think so?12:45
nicksydneywpwrak: for some reason NXP is very expensive compared to ST, SiLabs or Atmel12:45
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: um, why would they be?12:45
DocScrutinizer05when a input OC has a hit, it might inject bogus signal to stepper12:46
whitequarkwait, here I use input/output in relative to PC12:46
DocScrutinizer05I don't12:46
DocScrutinizer05you have an ideal circuit to debug. You got 3 identical sub-circuits to compare12:47
DocScrutinizer05should be easy to spot where X circuit differs from both Y Z12:48
DocScrutinizer05have to run. Meet Nik12:50
nicksydneyWHAT ! !!! http://www.designboom.com/technology/tiny-cmos-sensor-provides-3d-images-from-inside-heart-and-blood-vessels-02-21-2014/12:52
whitequarkultrasound transducer. basically same thing as before, but now inside blood vessels13:02
nicksydneyit's freakin' tiny13:04
nicksydneymad !13:04
nicksydneyhow do they manufacture it 13:04
wpwrakthe siglent sds2000 series may also be interesting competition to the rigol ds2000. very similar features, apparently decent quality, can have 4 analog channels, has 8 digital channels (MSO) as well, you even get an (IMHO not very useful) signal generator :)13:32
wpwrakthat seems to be a new trend: integrate basic signal generators in scopes.13:32
DocScrutinizer05well, when it actually can generate arbitrary signals, then I can see some usecases13:33
wpwrakshould have an AWG, yes. still ... i have a function generator (with AWG capability) and i never use it. should have bought a frequency counter :(13:37
wpwrakmost of the time, when i need some signal, it's something digital. and out comes the ben ... ;-)13:37
wpwrakben + UBB are pretty much key pieces of my lab. for virtually (*) all the in-circuit programming i do lately, it's the ben that's providing the brains13:38
wpwrak(*) except when starting with the KL25. but thanks to their firmware not even supporting the next relatively minor upgrade in the series, i was forced to move to my own solution there as well. of course using ben + UBB ...13:39
DocScrutinizer05some digita signal is an arbitrary signal in my book13:39
wpwrakyes, that's what i mean. AWG = Arbitrary Waveform Generator13:42
whitequarkbtw: acrylic lives fine through 20sec of 270°C14:21
whitequarkanother fun thing, while heating up that board I pointed a bright light source tangentially to it14:21
whitequarkand I think I watched epoxy transition to glass14:21
whitequarkand back14:21
whitequarkthe problem with it, I can't seem to dispense it properly14:25
wpwraknicksydney: oh, and when looking for scopes, you want to stay away from the likes of owon and hantek. they're cheap but unfortunately it shows.14:53
nicksydneywpwrak: gotcha 14:54
wpwrakatten also seems to have a lousy reputation. gw instek, so-so. there's a bunch of more obscure brands, too.14:55
nicksydneyRigol seems the logical brand15:21
nicksydneyok seems like Bitcoin is going to be packing up soon and disappear .. poof !  http://www.cnbc.com/id/10144243915:21
wpwrakthat's what the establishment would really like to happen ;-)15:23
wpwrak(rigol) the siglent 2000 does actually look pretty impressive from what i read about it. might be a worthy competitor for the rigol DS2000 series. still very new, though.15:24
whitequarkmtgox was far from a good exchange15:24
wpwrakfor the lower price range, rigol DS1074Z for sure. can't beat that one :)15:24
whitequarkI mean, you had to jump through a number of hoops which would make traditional banking proud15:24
whitequarkand could withdraw money exactly 2 times a year15:25
whitequarkalso, customer service rivaling cable isps in quality15:25
nicksydneythis seems a fair report http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-24/bitcoin-community-gangs-bad-actor-mt-gox15:26
wpwrakmy cable isp is pretty decent. the adsl ones seem evil, though15:26
nicksydneywpwrak: http://www.eyou.com.au/product/rigol-ds1074-70mhz-1gss-4-ch-7-color-lcd-/ ...$654 :(((15:26
whitequarkwpwrak: I was more thinking, US cable ISPs15:26
whitequarkthey're proudly occupying 2nd lowest customer satisfaction index15:27
whitequarkhm: https://btc-e.com/news/199 "2. The highest levels of security are already in place at BTC-e, and the company regularly uses external professional advice to further increase the security of our clients.15:30
whitequarkerrr not that15:30
whitequark"1. BTC-5 is at its peak of financial strength with the record levels of clients and capital adequacy. The company plans to start publishing financial statements, verified by an external audit, on a regular basis."15:30
whitequarkwhat kind of company deliberately seeks transparency? oh horror15:31
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