#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2014-02-16

DocScrutinizer05nevertheless on your own peril00:00
DocScrutinizer05might want to plug it to a DI-breaker00:00
whitequarkthere's one at the input (of course)00:00
whitequarkI recall such thing saving my fathers life, more or less. no way in hell I'm going to live without one00:01
DocScrutinizer05I got one, for whole flat :-/00:02
DocScrutinizer05my landlord and electrician been stingy when they refurbished my appartment00:02
DocScrutinizer05for obvious reasons I never test it ;-P00:03
whitequarkI've one for electric stove, one for sockets+bathroom+kitchen, and another one for all the flat00:03
Action: DocScrutinizer05 takes mental note to *finally+ get a UPS00:03
whitequarkand a bunch of current breakers too. that's the default setup in new buildings in .ru00:03
DocScrutinizer05well, here the DI is only mandatory for bathroom. No idea why they decided to run my whole flat across it00:04
whitequarkeh? what if some cable in an appliance breaks and exposes you to mains?00:04
whitequarkyou die, no?00:04
DocScrutinizer05particularly my lab / IT mains >:-(00:04
DocScrutinizer05me?00:05
whitequarkI'm rather happy my lab is protected by DI-breaker00:05
DocScrutinizer05meh, I occasionally touch 230 for fun00:05
whitequarkwell. I know it's not as dangerous as rumored. but you could get less lucky one time.00:05
DocScrutinizer05not anymore lately00:05
whitequark(UPS) I just work from a laptop00:06
DocScrutinizer05sure, I got DIs for lab, to plug them between any DUT and mains outlet00:06
whitequarkUPS batteries tend to die unexpectedly and are absurdly expensive to replace00:06
whitequarkalso, it's not fun hauling 5-10kg of lead when you need it00:07
DocScrutinizer05(laptop) that changed ~1 year ago, when my T500 fan got killed by... DUSTER00:07
whitequarkmaybe 20kg even00:07
whitequarkha!00:07
whitequarkheadline: "DUSTER... A KILLER AMONG US?!"00:08
DocScrutinizer05(batteries) yeah, I'd rather go for car batteries any day00:08
DocScrutinizer05UPS batteries are silly "no maintenance" stuff, for the sake of the UPS case not having a door and service instructions00:09
whitequarkyep, they have some kind of fancy H2 absorber00:10
whitequarkand the whole thing has rather delicate chemistry which can easily break down00:10
DocScrutinizer05a used car battery is way cheaper and prolly way better than those shitty lead gel batteries00:10
whitequark*nod*00:11
whitequarkwhile we talked, I did the inkscape bitmap experiment00:11
DocScrutinizer05they are even worse than LiIon when it comes to deep discharge00:11
whitequarkand the quality is even worse. .05mm line is dotted (!) and jagged edges00:11
DocScrutinizer05oh boy00:11
DocScrutinizer05finding the best printer driver for such delicate stuff is not exactly easy00:12
DocScrutinizer05which DPI are you feeding to the printer?00:13
whitequark60000:13
DocScrutinizer05OOOH waaay too low00:13
whitequarkis it?00:13
DocScrutinizer05sure00:13
whitequarkmost consumer printers can't do >60000:13
DocScrutinizer05you at least will need 120000:13
DocScrutinizer05that's why you need to go higher00:14
whitequarkwell... 600dpi dot is 42µm00:14
whitequarkmy resist resolution is 40µm00:14
DocScrutinizer05yeah, but you don't want dots, do you?00:14
whitequarkit prints lines if I send the job as vector00:14
whitequarklike that .05 line you've seen at pcb I have shown you00:15
DocScrutinizer05guess what it does internally for that00:15
whitequarkthat was made at 600dpi00:15
whitequarkdithering or somesuch? no, I looked at it with great magnification00:15
whitequarkit's just one dot empty line00:15
whitequarkok, it has an option called "HQ1200DPI", wonder what it does00:15
DocScrutinizer05the dot size resolution is maybe 600 DPI, but to get a smooth printing at fine structures, you drive it at 120000:15
DocScrutinizer05or even 240000:16
DocScrutinizer05depends on printer00:16
whitequarkhm. apparently "HQ1200" is not actually 1200x1200 dpi, just some kind of interpolation00:16
whitequarklet's try it00:16
DocScrutinizer05HQ1200 prints dots on higher pitch than their size would allow00:17
DocScrutinizer05HP calls it HRet iirc00:17
DocScrutinizer05some printers actually might create horizontal gapfree lines with CW laser00:18
DocScrutinizer05but for vertical lines I dunno00:18
whitequarkthere seems to be some difference in prints00:18
DocScrutinizer05I'd rather suspect they always use a dot matrix00:18
whitequarkugh. this transparent sheet has my fingerprints all over it. need a new one00:20
whitequarkthat probably caused one of those defects as well00:20
DocScrutinizer05I think I've even seen laser printers with a virtual 2400DPI setting - though physically they all do 600DPI max00:20
whitequarkhumans are such filthy pigs, leaving their grease everywhere00:21
DocScrutinizer05ooh right, printer paper also is dusty - fine cut paper particles00:24
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: http://i.imgur.com/WaU0KeG.jpg00:25
whitequarkwhy the F the .35mm one is still smaller than .30mm one00:26
DocScrutinizer05and those transparent foils are maybe charged with static and thus attract dust before you even feed them to printer00:26
whitequarkthey are00:26
DocScrutinizer05is it?00:26
whitequarkyes. also look at .25mm one00:27
DocScrutinizer05hard to tell exact size from that photo00:27
whitequarkboth .25mm one and .35mm one are clearly wider than .30mm one00:27
whitequarkI've verified it by measuring pixel size in gimp00:27
whitequarklook at the very bottom, 0.45 one00:27
whitequarkit's squished00:27
DocScrutinizer05weird00:28
whitequarkactually the whole column of numbers is just awfully distorted00:28
DocScrutinizer05yep00:28
DocScrutinizer05comparing 45 and 25 it looks nasty00:28
whitequarkyep, they were identical size in .svg00:29
whitequarkhm... let me try it on plain paper00:29
DocScrutinizer05which direction is paper transport? perpendicular to lines?00:29
whitequarkyep00:29
DocScrutinizer05then it's probably cause by transport00:29
whitequarkso, uneven transport speed can totally cause this00:30
whitequarkno distortion on paper00:31
DocScrutinizer05:-S00:31
whitequarkwell, let me check again00:31
DocScrutinizer05print a fine grid pattern to check00:31
whitequarkwow, I found the cause00:32
whitequarkif I tell the printer I'll print on "transparencies" it produces this horrendous distortion00:32
whitequarkeven on paper!00:32
whitequarkhowever if I tell it "plain paper" it does ok00:32
DocScrutinizer05you easily can wrap the foil or use two prints to compare them by laying them top on top and then sliding against the other one00:32
DocScrutinizer05wow00:33
whitequarkso, let me feed it the transparent sheet and say it's paper...00:33
whitequarkohhh... found another cause of defect. you can't print on same transparent sheet twice.00:35
whitequarkit gets physically distorted by some transport machinery right after the heating elements00:35
whitequarkso it's not flat anymore and the printing is screwed up next time00:35
DocScrutinizer05oooh, NEVER print on dirty sheets00:36
DocScrutinizer05no matter what's the dirt00:36
whitequarkbut I have, like, 10 transparent sheets! and they're A4 and my boards are 10x10cm max00:37
DocScrutinizer05ooh00:37
whitequarkit's absurd to throw away so much sheets00:37
whitequarkI can buy more I guess, they're not exactly expensive00:37
whitequarkbut it is still wasteful00:38
DocScrutinizer05just in case you're really in a pinch: i've seen "holders" made of carton or somesuch, where you can insert the corners of envelopes or postcards or similar into slots of the holder to feed it to printer00:39
whitequarkhm... that might work00:39
whitequarkhttp://i.imgur.com/0MatVYO.jpg00:39
whitequarkseems they're the right sizes now?00:39
DocScrutinizer05don't consider using scotch tape to fixate it ;-)00:39
whitequarkI've actually read guides on the web advising to use scotch tape. that cannot end well.00:40
whitequarkit will probably roll itself on hot rods and cause a disaster00:40
DocScrutinizer05yep00:40
DocScrutinizer05scotch tape is neither heat resistant plastic nor glue00:41
whitequarkI can maybe just feed it a sandwich out of paper+transparent sheet00:44
whitequarkwithout any glue00:44
whitequarkugh no, it got WAY worse00:47
DocScrutinizer05I guess transport is massively flawed by uneven thinkness or non-plane sheets00:51
DocScrutinizer05and as you've mentioned, the foils are suffering and thus not plane anymore from heat of one printing process00:52
whitequarklook at this: http://i.imgur.com/uZtGsl2.jpg00:52
whitequarkleft to right: new transparency; used once transparency; transparency+paper00:53
whitequarkit is truly horrible imprint and probably not good for drum00:53
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: o/ I'm off to sleep.01:00
DocScrutinizer05hah, I guess that's *all* about temperature01:10
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: how about putting your printer to the polygraph and first check out how it really thinks? a storage scope or even logic analyzer might go a long way in checking fixation drum temperature (from heating voltage), transport speed (from stepper voltages or even sensor output), maybe you even can analyze charging voltage and laser control?08:59
DocScrutinizer05is your printer still a true laserprinter or already a LED matrix printer?09:00
DocScrutinizer05seems I have a deficit of experience with disassembling to-the-bones some laserprinters. I don't actually know how they *really* work inside09:02
Action: DocScrutinizer05 guesses all contemporary "laser" printers to work with 600DPI LED lines of some 22cm width09:08
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserprinter#Charging has some interesting thin factoid about coating of photo sensitive drum09:46
DocScrutinizer05Selen seems out09:46
DocScrutinizer05Silicon is in09:46
DocScrutinizer05>>Numerous patents[specify] describe the photosensitive drum coating as a silicon sandwich with a photocharging layer, a charge leakage barrier layer, as well as a surface layer. One version[specify] uses amorphous silicon containing hydrogen as the light receiving layer, Boron nitride as a charge leakage barrier layer, as well as a surface layer of doped silicon, notably silicon with oxygen or nitrogen which at sufficient 09:47
DocScrutinizer05concentration resembles machining silicon nitride.<<09:47
Action: DocScrutinizer05 guesses that the coating of photo sensitive drum is one of them most secret USP of any laser printer09:49
DocScrutinizer05dang, even my lowcost rather contemporary HP LJ P1505 works with real laser and a mirror wheel scanner10:14
DocScrutinizer05http://www.feedroller.com/store/Service%20Manual/p1500sm.pdf10:16
DocScrutinizer05OK, a few things I learned from service manual: *) media type directly controls fuser temperature; *) media (paper) humidity is relevant, even too high (or too low) air humidity may result in sup-par printout. 10:51
DocScrutinizer05learned from unspecified source: Toner is hygroscopic and thus ages, by adsorbing water10:52
DocScrutinizer05^^^ s/media type/ media type setting/10:52
DocScrutinizer05some sources speak of "180°C +/-10° according to media type setting"10:53
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: suggestion: consider using thin non-transparent but translucent media (thin paper). It might create a light spreader layer causing way less shadowing even when light beams are nor perfectly perpendicular and parallel to mask10:56
DocScrutinizer05when you have a toner thickness of let's say 0.1mm then at 30° angle between trace in mask and light source you already have a 0.05mm shadow seam on the side of trace that is next to light source11:00
DocScrutinizer05when you have a light spreader layer (paper) directly on top of toner, there can't be any shadowing11:01
DocScrutinizer05of course the paper has to be translucent for the relevant light wavelength. For UV this might get tricky11:02
DocScrutinizer05a matte sheet of transparent plastic material might work much better, both for UV passing thru and for toner nicely adhering to the matte roughened surface. The surface structure creating micro diffusion "lenses" for the light11:05
DocScrutinizer05NFC what's the trade name for such media, or if it exists at all11:06
DocScrutinizer05for your major problem, the dust problem: your only other option except bathroom is building a mini cleanroom out of a glass cabinet and a strong fan with air filter that blows out all the dust from the cabinet thru the manipulator window11:10
DocScrutinizer05by creating a air pressure inside the cabinet (all old computer racks will work for your purpose. They did exactly that)11:11
DocScrutinizer05(since IBM PC - for "economy reasons, read "only one fan for PSU and mainboard - industry exactly inverted that principle, turning PC cabinets into giant vacuum cleaners collecting dust inside in a way that makes your real vacuum cleaner turn green from envy)11:14
CYB3Rwhitequark: do you know if it is possible to find the source of spl_stage1.bin?11:24
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: hmmm, you tempt me to actually disassemble it and look at it from inside11:54
whitequarka pity I can't look into its firmware to determine what it uses for different specified media types (yay for proprietary hw :])11:54
whitequarkI can measure hotrod temperature quite simply: open its backcover where the hotrod is visible and point my IR temperature meter at it11:55
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: (disassemble) I tried to find a service manual for DCP7010R but to not success12:03
DocScrutinizer05I find it quite puzzling that HP P1505 allegedly is a class1 laser product. Probably only after mirror wheel spreading stuff12:04
DocScrutinizer05I guess the laser itself must be sufficiently powerful to properly expose the area of 12 A4 sheets per minute12:05
DocScrutinizer05I dunno shit about the sensitivity of the photo drum surface12:06
DocScrutinizer05my service manual mentions too low fixation temperature as a possible cause of toner spearing and wavy effect in distorted character shapes12:08
DocScrutinizer05seems the fixation unit works with a foil sliding with the paper and the toner under a pressure&heat plate that's fixed12:09
DocScrutinizer05when the "friction" between the foil and paper/toner isn't high enough, the foil will not get transported properly by the moving paper and thus gets stopped by friction to the heating plate12:10
DocScrutinizer05thus the paper and toner slip under the foil and toner gets smeared or even moved across the paper surface12:11
DocScrutinizer05s/spearing/smearing|spreading/12:13
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: reading this P1505 manual actually is kinda educating12:24
whitequarkI see12:25
whitequark(thin paper) like tracing paper? https://www.currys.com/Images/News10/Jan/borg-step-1.jpg12:26
whitequark(service manual) found one on http://www.printer-volgograd.ru/service-manual-brother/1425-skachat-service-manual-brother-dcp-7010--rukovodstvo-polzovatelya-.html12:30
whitequarkguess google.de won't show you even relevant results on .ru websites!12:31
whitequarkit's literally second link for me12:31
whitequarkoh... it's not a service manual actually, despite being labelled so12:32
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: http://www.scribd.com/doc/40067811/Brother-MFC7420-7820-DCP7010-7020-7025-Service-Manual12:36
whitequarkthis is a real one12:37
DocScrutinizer05(paper) yes that's what I thought of12:38
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if it's translucent for UV though12:38
DocScrutinizer05prolly depends if it has whiteners12:38
whitequarkI've googled for a bit and 80% of links I see are from people whose printer is jammed on that tracing paper12:39
DocScrutinizer05(fluorescent substance converting UV to bright blueish-white)12:39
whitequarkI know, yeah12:39
DocScrutinizer05eeek, paper jam. not nice12:39
whitequarkalso it is apparently very slippery so really bad transport12:40
DocScrutinizer05not stiff enough?12:40
DocScrutinizer05yeah, might be12:40
whitequarkwhat the *fuck*, that scribd link tries to extort money to download pdf12:40
DocScrutinizer05there are foils made of transparent plastic but roughened on one side12:40
DocScrutinizer05(download) been there, cursed that. then thought you better find your manual yourself ;-)12:41
DocScrutinizer05finding HP manual been a breeze12:42
lekernelwhitequark, scribd, courtesy of Y Combinator12:43
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: hehe, this site asks you to complete an "electrical test" to download the service manual: http://elektrotanya.com/brother_mfc-7420_7820_dcp7010_7020_7025_sm.pdf/download.html12:44
whitequarkapparently to prove you wouldn't accidentally kill yourself12:45
whitequarkhttp://elektrotanya.com/pics/testpics/46.jpg, ha12:45
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: http://fehu.whitequark.org/files/brother_mfc-7420_7820_dcp7010_7020_7025_sm.pdf12:50
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: okay, so... HQ1200 is in reality 2400x600dpi13:02
whitequarkso how would that realistically improve over plain 600x600 dpi?13:02
DocScrutinizer05I dunno13:03
whitequarkyou know, I'm not disassembling it. I can barely understand what its insides do, even with annotated diagrams13:10
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: remember our "how does it detect end of toner" discussion? look at page 5813:15
whitequarkit's very cool13:15
DocScrutinizer05dang, just closed it13:18
DocScrutinizer05uh? now it's 40413:18
whitequarkeh? fehu.wq.org link works for me13:18
DocScrutinizer05The requested operation could not be completed13:19
DocScrutinizer05Connection to Server Refused13:19
whitequarkwtf?13:19
DocScrutinizer05banned?13:19
whitequarkfehu.wq.org? in germany? why?13:20
whitequarkdoesn't make any sense13:20
DocScrutinizer05works again13:20
whitequark...13:20
DocScrutinizer05nfc13:20
DocScrutinizer05nah, not in germany, in your server's fail2ban I thought13:20
whitequarkI only have it enabled for ssh13:21
whitequark(and it doesn't list any recent bans in the log anyway)13:22
DocScrutinizer05p.60: "organic photoconductor layer"13:31
whitequark*nod*13:32
CYB3RI finally figured out what is wrong with my board13:44
CYB3Rsdram doesn't work at all13:44
CYB3Rit only read 0x0123012313:44
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: >>The thermistor keeps the surface temperature of the heat roller constant by detecting the surface temperature of the heat roller and turning on or off the halogen heater lamp.<<  makes me wonder if that creates some discontinuity when media type setting is "transparent"13:46
whitequarkyep13:47
whitequarkoh neat, maintenance mode13:51
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: 8.4.13 Paper Feeding and Ejecting Test (Function code 67)14:11
whitequark„Function14:11
whitequarkThis function allows you to check that a sheet of paper is fed and ejected correctly by14:11
whitequarkprinting the grid pattern on a page, whose interval is 1cm.14:11
whitequarkthink I'll run this one on a spare transparency sheet14:11
DocScrutinizer05yeah14:11
DocScrutinizer05however I wonder if it regards media type setting in this test14:12
whitequarkI don't think there is even a way to set media type in this test14:12
DocScrutinizer05exactly my concern14:14
DocScrutinizer05the test been designed to run on plain paper14:14
whitequarkhmmm14:14
DocScrutinizer05though, who knows14:14
whitequarkgrids printed on paper and transparency don't seem to match14:15
whitequarklemme take a pic14:15
whitequarkhttp://imgur.com/zj4fZzH14:17
whitequarkI don't get it14:17
whitequarkI align them at one place and they're instantly out of align in ten others14:19
DocScrutinizer05weird shit14:19
whitequarkoh, I placed the transparency the toner side up14:20
DocScrutinizer05are you sure your transparent foil is suited for that high-temperature usage?14:20
whitequarktoner side down: same crap http://imgur.com/qGWPIJV14:20
DocScrutinizer05sure14:20
DocScrutinizer05stretch foil may shrink when exposed to high temperature14:20
whitequark(high-temp usage) oh yes, it was sold specifically as "transparency sheet for printing pcb photonegatives on laser printer"14:20
whitequarkby mgchemicals14:21
DocScrutinizer05make some markers on transparent *before* rointing/heating. check for shrinking14:21
whitequarkuhh, won't that make drum dirty?14:22
DocScrutinizer05printing even14:22
whitequarkthough I can make markings on non-drum side14:22
DocScrutinizer05depends14:22
DocScrutinizer05exactly14:22
DocScrutinizer05and you can use scratches instead of ink14:22
whitequarkit's a bit hard to make them precise14:23
whitequarkoh, hm, I can just compare a sheet with an unused one14:23
DocScrutinizer05is a pin to pierce tiny holes in 10mm distance to sheet14:23
DocScrutinizer05sure14:23
whitequarkcrap, this was the last one14:23
DocScrutinizer05when even over-all length changed, then you know what's up14:23
DocScrutinizer05the fact that used sheets are not printable for a second run in my book indicates that material suffers and is not really resilient to the fixation heat14:25
whitequarkyou are right here. so, I guess I need to buy new ones anyway14:25
DocScrutinizer05this might make the difference between a cheap and a quality product14:25
whitequarkyeah it was $314:26
whitequarkper 5 films14:27
DocScrutinizer05hmm14:27
DocScrutinizer05I can't recall prices when I last bought that stuff14:27
DocScrutinizer05obsolete info anyway14:27
DocScrutinizer05buying some foils that are specified in DS for a certain temperature should probably work better14:28
DocScrutinizer05particularly when that temperature is significantly higher than what you probed on your fixing drum14:29
whitequarkhm, I know what experiment I want to run14:30
whitequarkrun that mangled foil through my laminator with known temp.14:30
whitequark123°C precisely14:30
DocScrutinizer05http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Meetings/Home/Products/Transparency_Film/14:32
whitequarkI know. it's just a bit hard to buy here. can't find any in local shops14:33
DocScrutinizer05>>Not designed for color copiers.<< .oO(???)14:34
whitequarknfc14:35
whitequarkoh, troubleshooting -> wrinkles or creases14:35
whitequarkpage 20414:35
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: ran through laminator. 1) it removed wrinkles due to printer's feeding mechanism (four vertical depressions)14:38
whitequark2) the whole sheet is now wavy14:38
whitequarkso, shitty film14:38
DocScrutinizer05:nod:14:39
DocScrutinizer05>>3M also recommends the use of thicker and more robust transparency products, such as PP2950, for hot-temperature or slower-printing machines.<<14:42
whitequark*nod*14:43
whitequarkoooh take a look at page 21514:43
whitequarkit has a comprehensive guide to fixing image distortions14:43
whitequarkwhy is that not in user manual?!14:43
whitequark(film) no shops in russia seem to stock m3 transparencies14:45
whitequarkat least search comes out with 0 results14:45
whitequarkit's all Lomond14:45
DocScrutinizer05>>A:  We dont advise using CG3300 in your color laser printer. Color laser printers have higher fuser temperatures than black-and-white laser printers. The toners in these two machines also are different. For these reasons, we strongly encourage the use of the following recommended color laser printer transparency products: 3MTM Color LaserPrinter Transparency Film CG3700, 3MTM Color Laser Printer Transparency Film CG3720, or 14:45
DocScrutinizer053MTM Color Laser Printer Transparency Film CG3710.<<14:45
whitequarkoh, no, found CG3700 actually14:46
DocScrutinizer05http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Meetings/Home/Support/Tech_Docs/TransparencyFilm/14:46
DocScrutinizer05cg3700 is high-temp color laser printer spec'ed14:49
DocScrutinizer05cool stuff14:49
whitequarkseems like only some corporate resellers stock this14:51
whitequarkand it's out of stock everywhere, too14:54
whitequarkaha, found it locally14:58
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: ((was sold specifically as "transparency sheet for printing pcb photonegatives on laser printer")) maybe that means it shall be treated like normal paper, not like transparent film14:59
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: but I *was* printing on it like on normal paper and it still got mangled14:59
whitequarklike right now in last test14:59
whitequarkor yesterday14:59
DocScrutinizer05shit crappy product then15:00
whitequarkthat's what I wrote in my amazon review15:00
DocScrutinizer05hehe15:00
DocScrutinizer05get that 3M stuff, they at least give a 100%_satisfied_or_money_back warranty15:01
whitequarkwell... I'd have to be in US to get that, no?15:01
DocScrutinizer05dunno15:01
DocScrutinizer05I think that such warranty exists gives a certain hint on product quality15:02
DocScrutinizer05though... might be a trick as well15:02
DocScrutinizer05not by 3M though15:02
whitequarkah15:03
DocScrutinizer05ideally PP2950 it seems15:05
DocScrutinizer05thicker/stronger and higher fusing-temperature than other stuff15:06
DocScrutinizer05or you find CG600015:08
whitequarkfor PP2950 all hits are to resellers from ebay15:11
whitequarkCG6000 is same thing as CG3700 wrt/ availability15:12
DocScrutinizer05quite surprising they make a difference in their products for B&W and color laser printers, claiming that the color sheets are specifically coated for transparent color toner15:26
DocScrutinizer05they don't say the color stuff doesn't work for b&w though15:27
DocScrutinizer05I guess it's just more expensive15:27
DocScrutinizer05the often mentioned "3M Transparency Film Compatibility Guide" is nowhere to find15:29
DocScrutinizer05http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Meetings/Home/Products/Transparency_Film/ suggests CG500015:30
DocScrutinizer05it also seems impossible to get real datasheets for any of those "home" products15:32
DocScrutinizer05generally 3M site is a mess15:32
DocScrutinizer05hmmm http://www.3m.com/product/information/Highland-Transparency-Film.html15:41
whitequarkhmm15:45
DocScrutinizer05anyway this market is a mess15:55
DocScrutinizer05lots of knock-offs and nonsense15:55
whitequarkthat's true15:56
whitequarkhave you looked at lomond?15:56
DocScrutinizer05highland selling 3M but you can't tell what exactly. Apollo selling stuff that sounds like 3M (CG3000) but for sure isn't15:57
DocScrutinizer05nope15:57
whitequarke.g. http://www.lomond.com/en/detail/0703415 I can buy very easily15:57
DocScrutinizer05and the prices are breathtaking - up to 1 buck per sheet15:57
whitequarkI found 50 pages here for 980 RUB, that's 28 USD15:58
whitequarkso, yeah15:58
DocScrutinizer05designed for "normal temperature mode"15:59
DocScrutinizer05>>Polyester clear film is designed for printing on black-and-white and several types of colour laser printers and copiers with normal temperature mode.<<16:00
DocScrutinizer05so definitely no high-temperature aka color laserprinter 16:00
DocScrutinizer05no safety margin for your usecase16:01
DocScrutinizer05duh! that stuff comes with a paper "mount2 to get removed after printing16:02
DocScrutinizer05is that usual?16:02
whitequarkhmmm16:03
whitequarknot really, never used such film16:03
whitequarkprobably wrong product then, one sec16:03
whitequarkno, right product16:04
whitequarkhmmmm16:04
whitequarkahhh, I know what they mean16:04
whitequarkit's a small piece of paper *at the front edge of film*, presumably to assist printer feed mechanism16:05
whitequarkI've had it on that type of film before, yes16:05
DocScrutinizer05I once owned a AGFA copier that used only pressure (no heat) for fusing toner16:05
DocScrutinizer05judging by the springs used to push the two rollers together, it must have operated with several hundered kp/cm^216:07
DocScrutinizer05cute: it needed zero heatup time16:07
DocScrutinizer05alas it weighed ~40kg16:08
DocScrutinizer05anyway I love those Brother printers. They seem to really just work, particularly with linux16:16
DocScrutinizer05a friend ahd a MFCdunnowhat with scanner, and it was a matter of plug&print/scan, pretty unusual particularly for scanners16:16
DocScrutinizer05while damn HP needs HPLIP16:18
DocScrutinizer05which is a PITA really16:19
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: yeah I got the brother printer for exactly that reason16:23
whitequarkand you indeed can just get a ppd file from brother site and it'll work16:23
whitequarkalso: no DRM in cartridges. refill however many times you want, change any parts you want16:24
whitequark(although in the most recent printers that seems to have changed :(16:24
whitequarkbtw: scanner doesn't really work in linux due to some obscure changes in cups... the driver was written in like 2006. so I just use a windows xp vm for scanning.16:24
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: haha, the film manufacturer claims it's stable up to 200°C16:50
whitequarkmust have a different definition of "stable" than mine16:50
DocScrutinizer05well, read the 3M FAQ, particularly about why they do NOT rate a temperature - it depends on 2 factors: true temperature of roller, and time of contact to media16:51
whitequarkright16:52
DocScrutinizer05the faster your printer, the higher the true temperature to still heat up "paper" sufficiently. For sure the heating up is not identical to temperature of roller16:52
DocScrutinizer05lol, some fool tries to log in a ibot once again16:53
whitequarkwaitwaitwait16:54
whitequarkI was browsing the MGChemicals catalog idly16:54
whitequarkafter looking at their crap paper16:54
whitequarkand apparently they offer Fluorinert fluid, which looks kinda like Galden16:54
whitequarkhttp://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/3m-fluids/16:54
whitequarkdisregard "cleaner" part16:55
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I think I know that, but not the right temperature16:55
whitequarkI've definitely seen fluorinert in some galden presentations16:55
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: FC-70 3M" Fluorinert" Electronic Liquid FC-70 16:57
whitequarkA unique combination of properties and a high boiling point (215 ° C) makes this liquid ideal for many electronics applications, including high temperature heat transfer, vapor phase reflow soldering and many electronic quality and reliability tests.16:57
DocScrutinizer05yeah, 215°16:57
DocScrutinizer05I know that stuff, been there16:57
whitequarkthey sell to canadians. that's not a problem for me, I prolly can arrange16:58
DocScrutinizer05what do you want to do with 215°C "Galden"?16:58
DocScrutinizer05isn't that a bit low?16:58
whitequarkVPS?16:58
whitequarkwell... leaded solder is 180°C16:58
whitequarkI'm not that much interested in lead-free16:58
DocScrutinizer05hmm, right16:58
DocScrutinizer05you'll maybe have a hard time finding suitable components16:59
whitequarkhow so?17:00
DocScrutinizer05seems I've read about components that cannot get soldered lead17:00
whitequarkI've never encountered this so far. all is perfectly soldered by leaded17:00
whitequarkperhaps some BGA have lead-free balls17:00
DocScrutinizer05right, all have17:00
DocScrutinizer05a tad tricky to solder this stuff with lead temperature17:01
whitequarkhm well... BGA isn't for your average hobbyist though17:02
DocScrutinizer05right17:02
whitequarkyou need a CAD with >2 layers, board with >2 layers17:03
DocScrutinizer05but quite in range of VPS17:03
whitequarkknow-how to design all that17:03
DocScrutinizer05aah right17:03
whitequarksure. I mean quite a bit of time will pass before I'll get to BGA probably17:03
DocScrutinizer05there are 4pin "BGA" cases17:03
DocScrutinizer05but sure, you don't need to use those packages17:04
DocScrutinizer05or those components17:04
whitequarkyeah, it sounds like an extreme case useful for phones maybe17:04
whitequarkmotherboards17:04
DocScrutinizer05http://www.handy-ersatzteil-service.de/artikel/Application_Specific_Interface_ProtectorIC_Nokia_N900_original_SMD_Bauteil_ASIP_TVS_4-CH_BI_ESD_14V_15pF_400um_BGA5.html17:05
whitequarkwow 5 eur for that17:05
DocScrutinizer05they are ridiculously expensive17:06
DocScrutinizer05spare parts pricing17:06
whitequarkah, desoldered17:06
DocScrutinizer05not OEM pricing17:06
DocScrutinizer05desoldered?17:06
whitequarkwell... they desoldered it from dead n900s, no?17:07
DocScrutinizer05no17:07
DocScrutinizer05not afaik17:07
whitequarkhow else would they get "Application Specific Interface ProtectorIC Nokia N900 Original"17:07
DocScrutinizer05that's the point17:07
DocScrutinizer05they get that stuff directly from Nokia17:08
DocScrutinizer05but BGA5 is for sure no Nokia invention, and probably not even this "asic" is17:08
DocScrutinizer05http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/TPD4S012DRYR/296-24244-2-ND/2037539 not exactly BGA5...17:11
DocScrutinizer05here you are http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/CSPESD304-D.PDF17:12
whitequarkha17:15
whitequarkwhy buy that 5¬ part then?17:15
DocScrutinizer05well, because that's what Nokia used17:16
DocScrutinizer0514V may mean a lot or nothing, anyway that other thing I found would probably get called 5V17:17
whitequarkI see17:17
DocScrutinizer05and it has 22pF, not 1517:18
DocScrutinizer05even 2717:18
DocScrutinizer05so for e.g. USB it might already disqulaify by that17:19
whitequarkhuh, I found fluorinert fc-70 in the most unlikely of places: http://www.seas.harvard.edu/news/2011/09/slippery-slope-researchers-take-advice-carnivorous-plant17:20
whitequarktl;dr: a sponge saturated by fc-70 is an easy way to make a superhydrophobic surface17:20
whitequarkslippery also17:20
DocScrutinizer05huh?17:25
whitequarkyou know how geckos and bugs can crawl walls with van der Waals forces? they couldn't on a superhydrophobic one17:26
whitequarkthough I don't really know what to use this for, except fighting a spider invasion or something17:26
DocScrutinizer05hehe17:30
DocScrutinizer05I might actually need this, I'm prone to suffering spider invasions here17:31
whitequark"Die Spinnen. Die spinnen."17:32
whitequarkclaims to translate to "The spiders. They're nuts." by http://blogs.transparent.com/german/gros-und-kleinschreibung-upper-and-lower-case/17:33
DocScrutinizer05yeah17:33
whitequarknever was more relevant :D17:33
DocScrutinizer05gross*17:33
DocScrutinizer05or groß17:33
whitequarkit's ß in the actual title. stupid wordpress17:34
larscthat's actyally not a bad translation17:34
larscah, I thought this was some kind of auto-translation by google17:35
whitequarklarsc: nah, google translates "Die spinnen" as "spin"17:35
whitequarkwhich is apparently correct as well17:36
whitequarkI need to make myself a tshirt with those spiders17:36
larscwhitequark: that's the literal translation17:37
whitequarklarsc: yeah, I looked it up in the dictionary17:37
whitequarkapparently google translate can't sense that much context17:37
larscthey can, they just don't want you to know ;)17:39
larscand the search bar on the google page is only there so you don't get suspicious as to why they already know what you can to search17:40
larscs/can/want/17:40
whitequarkhehe17:40
DocScrutinizer05I guess there just isn't that much context18:00
DocScrutinizer05"wenn Fliegen hinter Fiegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen hinterher"18:02
DocScrutinizer05now remove uppercase and feed that to google ;-)18:02
larscwhen flies fly behind flies, fly fly fly behind18:03
whitequark"when flies fly behind Fiegen, fly fly fly behind"18:04
whitequarkwith uppercase18:04
larscwhen fly fly behind flies, fly fly fly behind18:04
DocScrutinizer05hehehe18:04
larscwith lower case18:04
larscwhen flying behind fly fly fly fly fly behind18:05
larscthat's my favorite18:05
whitequarkBuffalo buffalo Buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo.18:05
whitequarkenglish has this too!18:05
DocScrutinizer05.oO(???)18:06
whitequark"Buffalo" can be a city ("Buffalo guy")18:06
whitequark"buffalo" also can be an animal ("bison")18:06
whitequark"buffalo" can also be a verb ("to bully")18:06
DocScrutinizer05ooh18:06
whitequarkalso, the proper capitalization is: Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo18:07
whitequarkbig difference!18:07
DocScrutinizer05I don't quote the "Griechen" variant now ;-)18:08
DocScrutinizer05particularly since it only works in Franken18:09
larschttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Buffalo_buffalo_WikiWorld.png18:09
DocScrutinizer05maybe in Saxen also18:09
DocScrutinizer05cool buffalo18:13
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: interesting thing I found in manual for my printer18:15
whitequarkyou can set default contrast to "super dark"18:15
whitequarkthere's no such setting exposed to cups!18:15
DocScrutinizer05\o/18:16
whitequarkthough, you see, this printer secretly believes it's a fax machine, despite no fax mechanical or electronical parts18:16
whitequarkso maybe it's only for that imaginary fax18:16
whitequarkoh wow, it includes complete circuit diagrams18:19
whitequarkno, not complete, just power supply18:20
whitequarkthat setting doesn't really appears to have changed anything18:29
whitequarkso prolly "imaginary fax"18:29
larscinteresting plan9 is now GPL18:37
DocScrutinizer05hmm, plan9. nice. first time I really took a look into it19:16
benn__hi everyone, I am a new to the ben nanonote and I have a specific question regarding the use of spectec wifi card19:45
benn__to make it short: i have the kernel 3.2.1 and the related image from the qi-repo; the needed modules for the spectec card are in /lib/firmware; everything seems to load fine at boot19:48
benn__but: I don't get a 'eth0' device when I do iwconfig; dmesg does not show me any line with mmc019:50
benn__I don't know if I am missing something obvious19:51
whitequarkpost dmesg output here19:52
benn__I am sorry, I don't have my nanonote connected to my computer now; do I have to inspect something specific regarding dmesg?19:53
benn__my boot process: I have pluged the spectec in the ben, and boot; right after boot, there is a little green light on the spectec card which only remains 3 secs, then no light anymore19:55
whitequarkwell, there should be something mmc-related in dmesg19:56
whitequarkthe card detect switch is usually mechanic...19:56
benn__dmesg | grep mmc gives: [1.140000] jz4740-mmc jz4740-mmc.0: JZ SD/MMC card driver registered19:59
benn__I have tried so far: jlime, as well as other kernel from qi (last image; image 2011-05-28)20:09
whitequarkbenn__: seems like the card is not detected properly then20:18
benn__is there something that I can do, or do I have to give up on this?20:20
lekernelstill has windows 3.1 graphics ...20:25
whitequarkbenn__: better ask wpwrak 20:26
benn__thanks!20:27
pcercuei3.2.1, isn't that like extremely old?20:29
lekernelbut: "This allows running rio inside of another window manager". useful feature, that20:30
nicksydney64bit ARM available for pre-order http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/02/15/applied-micro-x-gene-x-c1-armv8-server-development-board-is-now-available-for-pre-order/ ...nice :)21:46
pcercueiugh21:48
pcercueithe cooling is not reassuring21:48
nicksydneyvideo for the board https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLLOUzJX9ec&list=PL9CF76255EA67C0C4&index=1821:50
wpwrakwhitequark: not really my field of expertise. there are some people here, though, who have that card and some may even have it working22:35
whitequarkwpwrak: I was more talking about lack of card detect22:36
whitequarkit's mechanical right?22:36
whitequarkjust a bending contact in the slot22:36
wpwrakah yes, some lateral contact in the card holder22:39
whitequarkso yeah, it seems that is not engaged22:45
whitequarkotherwise you'd see a bunch of mmc messages in console, maybe saying "card doesn't respond"22:46
wpwrakhmm, not sure. i don't remember seeing a lot of complaints when i insert some UBB. well, i don't normally look for them either ...22:58
whitequarkhmm.23:02
whitequarkoh, it's a microsd card. I was thinking regular sd.23:03
--- Mon Feb 17 201400:00

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