#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2014-02-12

nicksydneyseems like nano for me to jump in and help is good for my soul :)00:43
wpwrakdunno how it was sourced. certainly indirectly for the ben production but AVT2 and such may have gotten it directly from ingenic (or, if they went through a distributor then that was for convenience). wolfgang had direct contact to ingenic.02:49
nicksydneywas looking around the 'net seems like can't find any distributors carry the chip03:05
wpwraktried alibaba ?03:10
rohhm? why would anybody use that chip nowadays?03:11
nicksydneywpwrak: not available03:24
nicksydneyroh: just curious03:24
nicksydneywpwrak: seems like the model has been discontinued even from ingenic03:25
wpwrakdiscontinued doesn't mean it's not available ;-) someone mentioned doing a design with one of these chips here, i think it was just yesterday03:30
nicksydneyahh ok03:33
nicksydneyis 2 layer PCB design enough for this kind of chip ?03:34
wpwraknot sure but i think it may be possible03:38
nicksydneyseems like bitcoin is having it's own bank now http://www.businessinsider.com.au/aussie-technologists-are-opening-the-worlds-first-bitcoin-based-bank-this-year-2014-205:34
nicksydneywhitequark: fancy a bitcoin bank account :)05:34
wpwrakseems a little redundant :)05:35
nicksydneyhuh ? redundant ? ... it's another way for govt to make money :)05:35
wpwrakwell, the main purposes of a bank are to a) safely store money, b) send it around, and c) facilitate lending. for a) you have your wallet, b) is kinda implicit in bitcoins, so that leaves only c) for a bank to do.05:37
wpwrakokay, also d) currency exchange. but we have that already.05:37
nicksydneythis kind of move is expected (to open a bank) as there is money to be made...and soon currency exchange will move a level up in terms of bitcoin trading and that is using assets...as at the moment bitcoin is not linked to any assets...once assets is attach to a bitcoin you will see the explosion of it worldwide05:39
nicksydneyand that in turns means $$$$ 05:39
nicksydneyhow to solder one of this baby http://au.element14.com/atmel/atmega88pa-mmh/ic-mcu-8bit-avr-8k-flash-28qfn/dp/1748530 .... the pins can be done with iron but the middle part ?05:43
wpwrakhttp://babeuf.itch.io/flappy-mouse  ;-)))05:46
wpwrakhah, where's dos1 when we need him :)05:46
wpwraknicksydney: you can often get away with simply not soldering the center pad05:47
wpwrakjust make sure you don't run the chip at full power05:47
nicksydneywpwrak: sounds good to me...will try that05:48
whitequarknicksydney: I think there was a bank already...07:25
whitequarkwpwrak: you don't quite get it. "bitcoin bank" means "financial institution with govt-issued license working with bitcoins"07:25
whitequarkbasically demonstration of acceptance and legality07:25
whitequarke.g. bitcoins were outlawed here in russia, because, quote, only terrorists and pedophiles use it07:25
whitequarkso now there are no exchanges in .ru07:26
wpwraksounds very russian: if you don't know what to do with it, prohibit it until you figure it out07:43
whitequarkit's even worse than in china :(07:44
whitequark(bank of china doesn't mind people exchanging bitcoins, they just don't want to deal with those who got defrauded)07:45
wpwrakhmm, my office chair just exploded :-(08:41
whitequarkthat does sound russian :p08:42
larscdid you use too much nitroglycerin as the lubricant?09:02
wpwrakmust have been the acetone reacting with the peroxide ...09:05
wpwraknice .. cc2543 responds, too. unlike the kl26 implementing that debug protocol took something like an hour, not a weekend ...09:16
whitequark<3 new camera09:39
wpwrakwhat is it ?09:42
wpwrakthe camera seems to be much better than the etching ;-)09:43
whitequarkcamera? Sony ±3000 with 30mm f/3.5 macro lens09:43
whitequarkyes it is.09:43
whitequarkI admit it's a bit of overkill09:45
whitequarkthe photonegative doesn't seem to be that bad: http://i.imgur.com/zrku4lV.jpg09:47
wpwrakhmm, reviews say it's not too fancy for its class. but the pictures you got are good. that's all that counts :)09:52
whitequarkyeah, and the cost was good, too ($320 for camera, $230 for lens)09:58
nicksydneywpwrak: interesting read http://octopart.com/blog/archives/2013/11/what-every-hardware-startup-should-know-about-the-electronic-component-landscape12:00
nicksydneydidn't know you can make this kind of pcb http://320volt.com/en/atmega88-mukemmel-led-topu/14:00
whitequarkthere's nothing special about the PCB14:02
whitequarkit's just cut into a funny shape and then assembled14:02
nicksydneyso does this mean that the semi round PCB comes like that from the fab ?14:05
wpwrakgood luck with the mechanical strain on the LEDs, though ;-)14:13
wpwrakwell, if you solder after bending it may be okay ...14:13
nicksydneyeasiest way for now is to try on paper to see if the design works :)14:15
DocScrutinizer05there's nothing bent in this ball15:06
DocScrutinizer05it's just a number (like ~16) of circle half segments15:07
DocScrutinizer05with LEDs soldered to the edge of PCB which got cut to the half-circle shape15:07
DocScrutinizer05at least >>LEDs are placed perpendicular to the card pcb soldering LEDs formed a half circle cut out in the form of.<< seems to suggest that and the pictures definitely do as well15:10
DocScrutinizer05I wonder which translator machine they used and which original language15:11
DocScrutinizer05Mükemmel Led Topu  WTF?15:12
DocScrutinizer05Bro çoklay1p15:13
wpwrakoh, i see. that's much cleaner then. then the sentence "make it possible to use round shape by bending a thin pcb" doesn't make sense, though.15:17
DocScrutinizer05google translate says "Tuerkisch erkannt" but refuses to translate15:18
DocScrutinizer05the only sense I can make out of that sentence is: they used a bent PCB as a shape template15:19
DocScrutinizer05or maybe it just doesn't make any sense at all, just like most of the sentences on that site15:19
DocScrutinizer05well, not uncommon. see >>FREE CALLS* to regular phonse<< (SIC!)   https://www.voipcheap.com/en/dashboard15:22
wpwraklet's see how your phonse is doing ... ah, close to 1000/3, another "round" number. nice.15:23
Action: whitequark made some more photos of PCBs15:24
whitequarkwpwrak: do you salivate yet? :]15:25
wpwrakthat looks pretty tidy. how did you plate the through-holes ?15:30
whitequarkwpwrak: ehhh no, that's not a PCB I made, that's the one from my CNC machine15:31
whitequarkbut I'm quite flattered15:31
wpwrakaaah !15:31
wpwrakthe flux residues definitely give it a DIY-ish look :)15:31
whitequarkyup, I soldered a few unpopulated connectors15:32
whitequarkI was mainly demonstrating photo quality. it definitely does work for my purpose "take a picture and never touch the real thing again"15:32
whitequarkor rather having comprehensive documentation which does not depend on storage of physical objects15:33
wpwrakyeah, that's good to have. btw, here's what my canon sd880 does: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/sd880/15:34
DocScrutinizer05did those suckers really grind off the chips' writing?15:35
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: naw, the engraving is just filled in with some kind of grease or shit15:36
wpwrakthey must have seen some western companies do it. then they copied it :)15:36
DocScrutinizer05GOD, R23 looks pretty drunken15:37
wpwrakmaybe you need to experiment with angle and light source. you can usually get very clear images even of stuff that seems unreadable. alas, the angle that works for one chip may not work for the next. but then, digital pictures are cheap ...15:37
DocScrutinizer05and WTF is that huge black awry blob upper right?15:39
whitequarkbetween "LIMIT" and "DIR+DIR-" ?15:40
whitequarkit's a 5V to 5V DC-DC converter15:41
whitequarkapparently for isolation or something15:41
DocScrutinizer05covers some SMT components15:41
DocScrutinizer05and looks pretty awry15:41
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: ever seen "2001: A Space Odyssey" ? :)15:41
DocScrutinizer05actually U5 does as well15:41
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: joking? the day it started in cinema15:42
DocScrutinizer05yeah :-P15:42
DocScrutinizer05took a while to get the link15:43
DocScrutinizer05they must have soldered that PCB by hand15:43
DocScrutinizer05and not really good, I may add15:43
DocScrutinizer05R20 even looks like it has a short15:44
whitequark... it does15:45
wpwrakthat even looks intentional15:45
wpwraki.e., there don't seem to be any traces leading into these pins15:45
DocScrutinizer05making for a 2*R from lower right to 2nd from right15:46
DocScrutinizer05512 prolly doesn't mean "Ohm"15:47
wpwrakthe placement of the vias is certainly quite creative. looks as if they couldn't quite make up their mind between having pad-on-via or not ...15:47
DocScrutinizer05rather 510 Ohm15:47
DocScrutinizer05or 510015:47
wpwrak512 = 5100 Ohm15:47
wpwrakah, on R23 it's clearer: the two pins there seem to be joined by a trace15:48
whitequarkyeah, they are15:48
DocScrutinizer05R23 looks really drunken15:49
DocScrutinizer05and that capacitor covering the solder pads of U5 is also butt ugly15:51
DocScrutinizer05and look how they tortured those poor Toshiba stepper driver chips15:53
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: you might want to use larger washers for the scres holding the Toshibas  when you re-assemble the thing15:55
DocScrutinizer05unless you want to risk one of them losing a corner15:56
whitequarkthey don't have washers15:56
DocScrutinizer05yeah, thought as much X-P15:57
DocScrutinizer05looks like15:57
DocScrutinizer05and make sure that Elko doesn't short the solder points of U5 eventually15:59
DocScrutinizer05the shirt of black plastic between the Alu pot and the solder points might not suffice for long16:00
whitequarkalu pot?16:02
whitequarkthat thing near u5 is an inductor16:02
DocScrutinizer05at least I *guess* that's an elko, eh?16:02
DocScrutinizer05oh well, then... maybe ferrite isn't conductive16:03
DocScrutinizer05now wait, is R19 also OK?16:05
DocScrutinizer05I can't 'read' that circuit16:06
whitequarkuhh seems to have another short16:07
DocScrutinizer05but the two pins of R19 seem unused anyway16:08
DocScrutinizer05I can't 'read' that circuit16:08
whitequarkthere's a via under the 3rd pin16:08
whitequarkwhich is shorted with 4th apparently unused one16:08
whitequarkwhoever placed those vias, should be fired16:09
DocScrutinizer05Q1 Q2 look like they already seen a repair16:11
DocScrutinizer05and do you think R29 upper is actually soldered at all?16:12
wpwraklooks good to me16:13
whitequarkyeah it is16:13
wpwrakthe dark part isn't shadow - else we'd see the same on the others as well16:14
wpwrakseems that C39 got half of china's annual tin production ;-)16:14
DocScrutinizer05ooh there are more like that, you have no idea of China's annual tin production until you looked closely at U516:15
whitequarkyeah, that's some generous soldering16:16
whitequarkcan *you* read these markings? http://i.imgur.com/HiHNwRp.jpg16:18
whitequarkI don't think that's english letters16:18
whitequarkit's some unidentified optocoupler I can't google for the love of my life16:18
DocScrutinizer05and that's for sure a funny random collection of the crappiest random vias I ever seen16:19
DocScrutinizer056N37 ?16:19
DocScrutinizer05maybe GL  6N13716:21
whitequarkooo you're amazing16:22
DocScrutinizer05yeah, 6N137 seems to make sense16:22
DocScrutinizer05you OK with 6N137?16:38
DocScrutinizer05seems to fit16:39
whitequarkI think that's what it is16:40
DocScrutinizer05nfc what's GL16:40
DocScrutinizer05or even *if* that's GL16:40
whitequarksomeone fairchild bought?16:41
DocScrutinizer05umm nope. thought it's maybe "FS" for Fairchild Sem16:42
DocScrutinizer05could rather be "CS"16:43
DocScrutinizer05instead of GL16:43
DocScrutinizer05no idea16:43
wpwrakyou mean CZ ?16:43
wpwrakvery artistic interpretation16:43
DocScrutinizer05ooh right, Z16:44
DocScrutinizer05hey! .cz16:44
DocScrutinizer05.cn maybe ?16:45
DocScrutinizer05wow, hi dos116:46
wpwraki think it's EL. as in www.everlight.com16:48
wpwrakalas, without meaningful pictures16:51
wpwrakcould actually be a fake. they often mimic the original markings but at lower quality16:52
whitequarkwtf is an SMD resistor marked 5101 ?17:22
whitequarkah, just a 5.10k one17:45
wpwrakdamn E24 scale :)17:54
whitequarkokay, I posted some of my notes here: http://lab.whitequark.org/18:32
whitequarkcare to read/comment ?18:32
wpwrakyou need a before/after video for spindle speed control18:39
wpwrakand you need to fix "Max. velocity X/Y" and "Max. acceleration X/Y". one set is either Z or they're really X/Y but depend on some environmental factor, e.g., operator vodkacity18:40
whitequarkthanks, fixed18:45
whitequark(spindle speed control) video ?18:45
wpwrakmanual control (turn the knob) vs. program control (make it spin up/down, hopefully producing impressive noises)18:48
whitequarkbut I no longer have the knob. the transformer has killed it!18:49
wpwrakhttp://lab.whitequark.org/notes/2014-02-11/cnc3020t-fixing-power-supply/   you cut pcbs without victim material ?18:49
whitequarkwpwrak: let's put it this way19:04
whitequarkI'm now excellent at precise Z positioning19:04
whitequarksee, I couldn't find a flat enough piece of wood. so partly I didn't use any victim material and partly I used that pcb you see itself19:05
wpwrakPCBs, especially of FR2, make nice victim materials. FR4 isn't so nice because you're wasting your endmill19:30
whitequarkyeah, FR4 is quite hard19:33
whitequarkI can't seem to find where I can buy FR2 in .ru19:34
whitequarknone of my usual shopping places stock it, likely because it's ancient and crappy19:34
whitequark... well19:34
whitequarkI know this normally doesn't prevent them...19:34
whitequark("soldering fat")19:35
whitequarkhrm. did I write that the fan "doesn't mind" being fed 30V input?19:38
whitequarkwell, it died. on the good side, it's now much quieter.19:38
whitequarkI actually suspect it was a 12V fan fed 24V19:39
whitequarkhm, no. marked as 24V. I guess this chinese stuff really doesn't tolerate even slight overvoltage.19:40
wpwrakdamn you, xkcd. just this morning the world was nice and normal. i sat in my office chair like the usual sack of wet potatoes and lazily surfed the internet. now my desk is full of plastic boxes propping up screens, keyboard, and mouse and i'm standing there, typing, feeling exceedingly alert all the while.23:26
--- Thu Feb 13 201400:00

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